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Scam Citizen is doing 'bedsheet deformation' physics now, because of course it is

Drizzlehell

Banned
Do you have examples of what you can do? Your not better then those "scam citizens" if you just say "it's fun".
Huh, where do I even begin... Well, okay, but don't you dare to complain that it's too long and you didn't read. You asked.

So, basically, it's space combat and trading sim, similar to games like Elite, Wing Commander: Privateer, or the X series. You're dumped into an open-ended sandbox where you can pick up a variety of missions, ranging from bounty hunting, mining, and trading, to various objective-based assignments, eg. "go find a crashed ship, find out what happened, retrieve some stuff while you're there, maybe shoot someone in the face". In other words, you're being given a set of tools and a big sandbox to play around in, and sure enough, it may also lead to some emergent situations that the devs may not have predicted. There is no big overarching story or cinematic-driven quests that you need to follow and because of that, you may have to adjust your expectations before you go in because if you're expecting Mass Effect then you're gonna be sorely disappointed. If you never were into games like the ones that I mentioned in the first sentence of this paragraph, then I don't think Star Citizen will be your cup of coffee either, although it might just change your mind for the reasons that I will mention a bit later. However, if you already know what kind of a game you're getting into then it's some seriously impressive shit. Comparisons to Elite Dangerous are appropriate but ED's galaxy is simply too huge to lead to any meaningful emergent gameplay, while Star Citizen's more compact system of planets is much more suited for an experience where players themselves are able to forge their own stories, both through interactions with the game's various systems and with each other.

Now, there are a couple of things that set SC apart from all those other sandbox space games, though.
The first one is the production quality, which is, like, triple-A level. Other space sims like X4 only look and play decently when you're flying around in a ship but as soon as you disembark on a space station it's jank city. Star Citizen, on the other hand, looks just as impressive inside and outside of the cockpit. The gameplay has the same level of polish when you're boots on the ground, shooting bandits and pirates with your assault rifle, as it does when you dogfight them in space. And I was honestly really surprised how well made all of this is. Each of the individual gameplay mechanics are done well enough to be their own separate games and at no point did I get the impression that they've been trying to cut corners on any of them because they didn't expect the players to spend too much time doing it.
The second standout feature in this game is the emphasis on the immersive aspect. To paint you a better picture, let me walk you through the first hour or so of the game. When you first boot up the persistent universe and create your character, you wake up in your own small apartment in the city that you picked as your default starting location (or, to put it simply, home). You look around the place, fiddle around with various objects, check your inventory, and then head out to explore the hubs in the immediate vicinity. If you want, you can visit a nightclub, walk around the recreational area, or head to the shopping strip to buy some gear and provisions for the road. You then make your way to the metro station and take a trip to the spaceport where you can pick up your ship in the hangar and leave the city. Whether you choose to do a couple of flybys over the city or head straight up and into space is up to you but from there you can have a look at your journal and select a random mission, or join up with some other players for some more challenging raids. New notifications for available team-up opportunities pop up on your HUD all the time. But the most amazing thing about all of what I just described is that at no point will you ever see a loading screen or get interrupted with a prebaked animation or a cutscene. All of this gameplay is completely uninterrupted and it really does create a palpable sense of immersion that I don't think I've seen in any other game of this type before.

So while it's not exactly the most complete space game that I've played, it already has enough stuff in it to feel like an actual game that you can spend dozens, if not hundreds of hours dicking around in, and that incredible sense of immersion and production quality really set it apart from any other space game with a persistent universe. And speaking of its direct competitors again, IMO Star Citizen already feels way more complete and entertaining than Elite Dangerous but you don't see anyone bitching about ED being a scam. And the reason for that, I think, can be basically boiled down to semantics - the only thing that sets these two games apart is that Elite saw an official 1.0 release back in 2014. This means that technically the game was "released" as a "complete" product, but in reality, it was so bare bones that you could barely call it a prototype. Nobody talks about how it took Frontier another 7 years to expand it to something that resembles a fun game and not a tedious grind fest, and that's because, again, they had an official release date. Funny how that works...

Anyway, that's about what I have for now. I'm still just starting out with this game so my feelings on it might change the more I play, but after spending a few hours with it, I'd say it's not exactly the kind of scam that everyone seems to think it is, but it's far from being a complete game either. There's also some shady scumfuckery going on with Squadron 42 that they're still trying to sell you when you sign up for Star Citizen, even though the last update on that thing was back in 2018, but let's not get into that now...
 
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A lot of hair and cloth simulations go way overboard and end up looking unrealistic because the things move too much. When you watch a game that has hair physics applied and then go watch a person with long hair walk they don't look anywhere near the same. Real hair/cloth has weight to it but in games it's all about an exaggerated bounce for some reason.
 

Deerock71

Member
Amber Heard mode incoming!
Sleepy Bed Bed Bed Bed Bed GIF by The Bachelor Australia
 

Nydus

Gold Member
Huh, where do I even begin... Well, okay, but don't you dare to complain that it's too long and you didn't read. You asked.

So, basically, it's space combat and trading sim, similar to games like Elite, Wing Commander: Privateer, or the X series. You're dumped into an open-ended sandbox where you can pick up a variety of missions, ranging from bounty hunting, mining, and trading, to various objective-based assignments, eg. "go find a crashed ship, find out what happened, retrieve some stuff while you're there, maybe shoot someone in the face". In other words, you're being given a set of tools and a big sandbox to play around in, and sure enough, it may also lead to some emergent situations that the devs may not have predicted. There is no big overarching story or cinematic-driven quests that you need to follow and because of that, you may have to adjust your expectations before you go in because if you're expecting Mass Effect then you're gonna be sorely disappointed. If you never were into games like the ones that I mentioned in the first sentence of this paragraph, then I don't think Star Citizen will be your cup of coffee either, although it might just change your mind for the reasons that I will mention a bit later. However, if you already know what kind of a game you're getting into then it's some seriously impressive shit. Comparisons to Elite Dangerous are appropriate but ED's galaxy is simply too huge to lead to any meaningful emergent gameplay, while Star Citizen's more compact system of planets is much more suited for an experience where players themselves are able to forge their own stories, both through interactions with the game's various systems and with each other.

Now, there are a couple of things that set SC apart from all those other sandbox space games, though.
The first one is the production quality, which is, like, triple-A level. Other space sims like X4 only look and play decently when you're flying around in a ship but as soon as you disembark on a space station it's jank city. Star Citizen, on the other hand, looks just as impressive inside and outside of the cockpit. The gameplay has the same level of polish when you're boots on the ground, shooting bandits and pirates with your assault rifle, as it does when you dogfight them in space. And I was honestly really surprised how well made all of this is. Each of the individual gameplay mechanics are done well enough to be their own separate games and at no point did I get the impression that they've been trying to cut corners on any of them because they didn't expect the players to spend too much time doing it.
The second standout feature in this game is the emphasis on the immersive aspect. To paint you a better picture, let me walk you through the first hour or so of the game. When you first boot up the persistent universe and create your character, you wake up in your own small apartment in the city that you picked as your default starting location (or, to put it simply, home). You look around the place, fiddle around with various objects, check your inventory, and then head out to explore the hubs in the immediate vicinity. If you want, you can visit a nightclub, walk around the recreational area, or head to the shopping strip to buy some gear and provisions for the road. You then make your way to the metro station and take a trip to the spaceport where you can pick up your ship in the hangar and leave the city. Whether you choose to do a couple of flybys over the city or head straight up and into space is up to you but from there you can have a look at your journal and select a random mission, or join up with some other players for some more challenging raids. New notifications for available team-up opportunities pop up on your HUD all the time. But the most amazing thing about all of what I just described is that at no point will you ever see a loading screen or get interrupted with a prebaked animation or a cutscene. All of this gameplay is completely uninterrupted and it really does create a palpable sense of immersion that I don't think I've seen in any other game of this type before.

So while it's not exactly the most complete space game that I've played, it already has enough stuff in it to feel like an actual game that you can spend dozens, if not hundreds of hours dicking around in, and that incredible sense of immersion and production quality really set it apart from any other space game with a persistent universe. And speaking of its direct competitors again, IMO Star Citizen already feels way more complete and entertaining than Elite Dangerous but you don't see anyone bitching about ED being a scam. And the reason for that, I think, can be basically boiled down to semantics - the only thing that sets these two games apart is that Elite saw an official 1.0 release back in 2014. This means that technically the game was "released" as a "complete" product, but in reality, it was so bare bones that you could barely call it a prototype. Nobody talks about how it took Frontier another 7 years to expand it to something that resembles a fun game and not a tedious grind fest, and that's because, again, they had an official release date. Funny how that works...

Anyway, that's about what I have for now. I'm still just starting out with this game so my feelings on it might change the more I play, but after spending a few hours with it, I'd say it's not exactly the kind of scam that everyone seems to think it is, but it's far from being a complete game either. There's also some shady scumfuckery going on with Squadron 42 that they're still trying to sell you when you sign up for Star Citizen, even though the last update on that thing was back in 2018, but let's not get into that now...
Thanks for the detailed write up. I had around 300€ invested back in the Kickstarter times, but refunded since there was nothing to do for years. Maybe it will be fun to fiddle around with a free to play account (ie the starter pack or whatever they have for that) I spend more money on worse. :)
 

Bragr

Banned
I don't get it, isn't deformation physics something a few guys do on the side for a short while?
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
At the risk of getting reamed by the entirety of this thread I think people are picking low hanging fruit when it comes to this game.

OP focuses on this bedsheet deformation thing without mentioning all the good things they did with the 3.17 patch that came out last week. These include big and small quality of life changes.

- They released a new mining ship, they added
- The ability to refuel ships from other ships, making refueling another way players can make money.
- Players can now place bounties on other players. Another way to make money.
- They revamped the UI for ship claims. Included voice lines now.
- They added new mining function including the ability to place charges to deposits to break apart rocks
- They added new Gen 12 rendering features that improved the framerate immensely. 60fps is a possibility now. With a 3080, I can get over 100 in space.
- Added the ability to sell loot you acquired from missions.
- Added the ability to stack ammo
- Improved Desync in PVP ship dogfighting.
- Added a river (testing it's functionality)

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

I mean yea, there's no excuse for it taking 10 years, but when you wanna sit here and cherry pick shit like their priorities are somehow only on those things then this whole thread is disingenuous and meant to facilitate a dogpiling hive mentality from people too lazy to actually look into it for themselves.

I'm wide open baby...come at me.
 
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Madonis

Member
I'm still surprised by how well Star Citizen has managed to keep the flow of money coming in, despite (or precisely because of) being the greatest example of why games should have scope limitations.

Regardless of whether it will ever be released in a completed state, I can only imagine some interesting tech will be salvaged out of this project and will find more practical use elsewhere in the industry.
 
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ANDS

King of Gaslighting
A decade is a long time in development for sure, but if they weren't making the kind of scratch they are, people wouldn't be looking twice at this game. Project Zomboid, Seven Days to Die, Satisfactory (recent addition but no hint of even being anywhere near a release date): all darlings of early access, all still limping along.
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
Thanks for the detailed write up. I had around 300€ invested back in the Kickstarter times, but refunded since there was nothing to do for years. Maybe it will be fun to fiddle around with a free to play account (ie the starter pack or whatever they have for that) I spend more money on worse. :)
Oh damn, that's a lot of money. No wonder you refunded it, I would've done that too.

The cheapest pack that you can get now to start playing is around 55 bucks and even that seems a bit steep but whatevs, at least I could finally try it out after first getting hyped for it back in 2013 and yeah, I made worse purchases in my life too, lol. If you're still on the fence though, then I'd recommend waiting a few days for the free fly event that's about to happen (scuttlebutt says it's gonna happen sometime this month, maybe in June).
 

UnNamed

Banned
For what I know (and I understand from this story) the game is playable and enjoyable, there are no evident missing parts in the core of the game. Reading all the discussions about SC on the internet, I always feel most of the people who backed the game are quite happy with it, instead people who don't have the game are the one who are complaining the most. It's like people are angry because of the promised features without considering what they actually have in the game.
Is this true or false?
 
It's a great project to follow even if you don't play it. It's funny to read the arguments from both sides. Some of the haters are more invested than some of the whales.

I bought into it ages ago, played a bunch of hours over the years. Don't have time to play games a lot these days but when eventually they release SQ42 Part 1 or whatever they're going to be calling it I'll definitely play it.
 
People hate this game because it's the cool thing to do. I personally love what they're doing here and people don't HAVE to spend money on it, yet they do.
 

ToTTenTranz

Banned
Regardless of whether it will ever be released in a completed state, I can only imagine some interesting tech will be salvaged out of this project and will find more practical use elsewhere in the industry.

More likely, the scam citizen "project" will continue on for another decade while the fans and people yet to realize the sunk cost fallacy keep pouring money into it.
And throughout this time, actually serious developers with real timelines and milestones may adopt some of these ideas and release them into shipping games.

I have little doubt that e.g. Starfield is going to use ideas from star citizen, No Man's Sky, X, Eve and a bunch of others.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Well it's tech for other small cloth deformation and it's mostly for SQ42 right now. There is already cloth deformation in SC for other things.





And they announced it with a wink. But yeah, websites like PCGamer are taking this completely serious as always.


You shouldn't be doing anything with a wink when you're over half a decade behind schedule and pissing on several million dollars. All the winks these guys have done they're probably blind in one eye.
 

Thanati

Member
At Cloud Imperium.

Programmers/designers: "Well, we've got the space physics, the combat and everything all done. It's good to launch!"

CEO: "Launch? Does this mean we won't be getting more money sent to us and can no longer drag it out?

Programmers/designers: "Well, yeah...pretty much"

CEO: "You know what this game needs? Blanket physics. We need to have blanket physics."

Programmers/designers: "But...but this is a space game. People want to fly in space and shoot stuff, not take a nap."

CEO: "Shhhhhhh. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. Now, off to Ikea I go to lie down on some beds of cash"
 

th4tguy

Member
SC really is a case where we have taken a director with a strong vision and basically said, " give him unlimited funds and time and let's see what happens."

For better or worse, the project keeps pumping out more and more interesting tech but with no end in site.

In any normally managed project, you would have studio heads or publishers stepping in to say no to things and managing how to wrap up the project for release.

This is exactly what happened with games like Bioshock Infinite. Rod Fergusson was brought in to make sure the game finished when the team had no clear end goal and was stuck in perpetual development because Ken Levine couldn't say No to new features, modes, and ideas. Rod was literally referred to as "The Closer".

Because of this, we will forever see articles and threads about what could have been for Infinite if the published hadn't forced the game to wrap up development and just let Ken "finish his vision" for the game.
 
Just added:

Stretch goal: $1,000,000,000:

Backers! I'm sure like us your celebrating this amazing milestone!! It shows the passion and love all of you have for this project and I am truly humbled to be the architects of not only this grand vision but of my own mansion, which I have bought and continue to upgrade in honor of our wonderful and generous community. So it gives me great pleasure to announce a further stretch goal! Toilets! Video game toilets have always been a let down and we desperately want to change that. We want your character's dumps and pisses to be just as exciting as anything in Star Citizen. So we are going to be bringing Toilet v1.0 tech to all starships and stations. We're talking full modelled water flow, toilet paper physics and skid mark shaders. Also full piss and shit physics with multiple types: floaters, bot busters, gut gravy; the works! Now your stomach biome will be a living organism affected by everything you consume! To really bring this to the fore we will introduce a new 'Critcal Shit' (©) attribute. All consumables will have their own critical shit rating e.g want to quickly munch that faraxin egg in a firefight? Watch out, roll a critical shit and your spacesuit could fill up like a sausage case! This adds a whole new risk-vs-reward element that I'm sure you'll agree will make Star Citizen even more uniquer.

I hope you all will really love this additional stretch (stench :) goal and join me in continuing to love and support this game. I have just ordered some beautiful Italian marble for my new runway that I'm building, again in honor of all you amazing supporters. So watch this space for more stretchies (as I like to call them). In fact, I think we are nearing our stretch goal for hitting 1000 stretch goals! With your continued love and support, the game, and by extension my house, will both be a true testament to the love, dedication, and most importantly money, you all give the project time and time and time and time again. So keep it flowing folks :) !

Chris.
 
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