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|OT| Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice | OT | Borne of Souls

Hayabusabruh

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This game is just too hard to enjoy and co-op would have helped on the tougher sections. I really do not know how this gets such good reviews in all honesty and doesn’t even look great either, mind you all from games look last gen.
This game is super easy compared to Nioh. That is the cheapest game I've ever played. Lol
 
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rofif

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Don’t hate me BUT should I play this game ? I’m a big fan of bloodborne btw


Is it a must ?
I realize why it's good but did not liked it as much as even ds3. It has 1 mechanic that is extremely difficult to master. Weird thing is that game is fine but bosses are so out of whack that they often just held my progress for days.
It is really frustrating as I enjoyed going through the levels and exploring but then some fucking out of nowhere difficult boss requires abnormal reflexes and learning... and there is no way around it. You meet a boss you cannot master - game over. I fail to see how it is beneficial to me, not to be able to progress in a game I've paid 60usd for and enjoy otherwise. In Souls there are options, builds, coop help. SOMETHING to get You by.
There is nothing to be found in world too. No items of significance so exploring just felt like going through the maze
 
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J3nga

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Don’t hate me BUT should I play this game ? I’m a big fan of bloodborne btw


Is it a must ?
You should give it a try, but one advice, forget everything you've learned from previous FROM software projects, previous experience will do you more harm than good. Playing DS3 right now and it's very different games.

I realize why it's good but did not liked it as much as even ds3. It has 1 mechanic that is extremely difficult to master. Weird thing is that game is fine but bosses are so out of whack that they often just held my progress for days.
It is really frustrating as I enjoyed going through the levels and exploring but then some fucking out of nowhere difficult boss requires abnormal reflexes and learning... and there is no way around it. You meet a boss you cannot master - game over. I fail to see how it is beneficial to me, not to be able to progress in a game I've paid 60usd for and enjoy otherwise. In Souls there are options, builds, coop help. SOMETHING to get You by.
There is nothing to be found in world too. No items of significance so exploring just felt like going through the maze
There's no such boss you cannot master. You haven't learned him yet or your tactics too defensive, the game from a get-go pretty much tells in your face that defensive style is not the way to play this game. If you're doing it right, even tough boss's one phase can be defeated within 1-2 minutes. One thing people keep repeating that the game is not fair, I very disagree. Bosses are still just dumb AI that has certain moves pattern and cannot learn anything new beyond that, you on the other hand have that ability. Yes, most bosses will be killing you a lot at first, but after you learn them they all fall like sorry children.
 

rofif

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You should give it a try, but one advice, forget everything you've learned from previous FROM software projects, previous experience will do you more harm than good. Playing DS3 right now and it's very different games.


There's no such boss you cannot master. You haven't learned him yet or your tactics too defensive, the game from a get-go pretty much tells in your face that defensive style is not the way to play this game. If you're doing it right, even tough boss's one phase can be defeated within 1-2 minutes. One thing people keep repeating that the game is not fair, I very disagree. Bosses are still just dumb AI that has certain moves pattern and cannot learn anything new beyond that, you on the other hand have that ability. Yes, most bosses will be killing you a lot at first, but after you learn them they all fall like sorry children.
The only boss I felt satisfaction in learning and beating was the Guardian Ape. Ishin... was.... horrible
 

J3nga

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The only boss I felt satisfaction in learning and beating was the Guardian Ape. Ishin... was.... horrible
This one more of a souls/bb type of boss which you kill by depleting his HP rather than exhausting his posture. Good boss, but different from the vast majority of the bosses. Ishin the sword saint is whole different beast and by miles more difficult, took me 5+ hours to crack him.
 
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gamerforever

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Well, it clearly isn't since so many of us have played through it and beaten it. If you try and play it like Dark Souls or Nioh, you probably would find it impossible.

You are right. My biggest issue is that I don’t like parrying. I never did it in dark souls and hate being forced to do it in sekiro. Maybe i am a bit harsh on this, but it is too hard and I wanted to complete it. Maybe if they remaster it and add an easy mode i will get it. Even if there was paid for dlc for some kind of ‘help’ i would get it.
 
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You are right. My biggest issue is that I don’t like parrying. I never did it in dark souls and hate being forced to do it in sekiro. Maybe i am a bit harsh on this, but it is too hard and I wanted to complete it. Maybe if they remaster it and add an easy mode i will get it. Even if there was paid for dlc for some kind of ‘help’ i would get it.
I never parried in Dark Souls or Bloodborne, either. Couldn't be bothered dying all the time while trying to perfect it. It's essential in Sekiro, though. I initially started playing it like a Souls game and soon discovered it wasn't going to work. So I just bit the bullet and started parrying. After a while it clicked and it really does become second nature. Helped me out a lot when it came to playing The Surge 2, too.
 

CrysisFreak

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I'm tempted by Nioh 2, but I am usually disappointed in sequels. What makes it so much better than the original?
It is much more refined, lots of subtle improvements, better enemy variety, imho GREAT bosses like Enenra, I think the game is very fair, you can summon AI components infinitely and use them as cannon fodder.
Tons of fun to play, but I'm having an easy experience because I roll with an Odachi, insane range and damage.
The burst counter mechanic is awesome and nearly as great as Mikiri counter in Sekino.
I recommend the game wholeheartedly. And I find the difficulty just right.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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You are right. My biggest issue is that I don’t like parrying. I never did it in dark souls and hate being forced to do it in sekiro. Maybe i am a bit harsh on this, but it is too hard and I wanted to complete it. Maybe if they remaster it and add an easy mode i will get it. Even if there was paid for dlc for some kind of ‘help’ i would get it.
If it's giving you trouble, ignore parrying at first and focus on blocking, jumping over sweeps, and doing mikiri counters. Blocking in Sekiro is surprisingly strong against all enemy attacks, even massive "overpowering" moves that would normally stagger you or knock you down in a Soulsborne game. An easy early example is the Taro troop (the large fatties with hammers, bells, and clubs) whose attacks can be easily blocked and parried without your Posture breaking. The same sort of "heavy club/axe fattie" in Dark Souls or Bloodborne would break your poise in just one or two hits.

When I got walled on my first Sekiro boss, I realized that I was trying to parry too much (kept failing the timing on certain parries). To beat the boss, I changed my tactic to holding 'block' through most of the main attacks sequences, and only parrying on the really obvious attacks (like the sweeps and thrusts preceded by that red dot) while getting in a few safe slashes to wear down vitality. I beat the boss on my very next attempt and didn't resort to any items or shinobi tools. On my second playthrough I beat the same boss on my first try, parrying almost every attack and killing him very quickly.

The eventual goal is to master parrying because it makes certain enemies/bosses really easy, but you don't have to master it right away. I didn't. Don't try to learn parrying by parrying everything an enemy throws at you. Instead, learn by incorporating just one or two parries into your plan against an enemy/boss. Don't even bother parrying most of their moveset, just try to parry one or two obvious moves with consistency, over and over. The parrying has been likened to a "rhythm game" but I think it's more like learning matchups in a fighting game.

One last unsolicited tip: aggressively clashing with the enemy until they parry you (the enemy's sword will have a bigger, brighter clash) will usually bait out one or two highly-predictable countermoves, which you can then parry yourself. In other words, aggressively mashing your attack button will usually bait an easy-to-parry attack that you can abuse repeatedly. This is contrary to Soulsborne logic. Sekiro rewards aggression by granting you more chances to parry and more predictable countermoves to parry. Remember, attack stamina and dodging/jumping stamina are infinite in Sekiro. Blocking is the only thing with a stamina meter now. Attacking recklessly in Soulsborne means you don't have enough stamina to roll or block, so you'd get counter-hit with no way to avoid. Generally it was a bad idea to be so aggressive that your stamina meter ran out. Sekiro breaks that rule and lets you be as aggressive as you want.

I think it was #Phonepunk# #Phonepunk# who mentioned it earlier: in Sekiro you have to think of enemy attacks as an opportunity to beat them faster instead of "waiting your turn" like in a Soulsborne game. If you can faithfully parry a single sweep attack (with a head-stomp) and/or a thrusting attack (with mikiri counter) you'll quickly take out most enemies. It's an aggressive tactic.
 
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Greedings

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It is much more refined, lots of subtle improvements, better enemy variety, imho GREAT bosses like Enenra, I think the game is very fair, you can summon AI components infinitely and use them as cannon fodder.
Tons of fun to play, but I'm having an easy experience because I roll with an Odachi, insane range and damage.
The burst counter mechanic is awesome and nearly as great as Mikiri counter in Sekino.
I recommend the game wholeheartedly. And I find the difficulty just right.
Maybe I'll pick it up. Does it have a pause like the previous one? I cannot play a game without a pause any more.
 
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This game is super easy compared to Nioh. That is the cheapest game I've ever played. Lol

Same here.

Sekiro is tough as nails but feels pretty fair, like From's other games, Nioh is just some cheap-ass bullshit, I hate that game.

Which is a shame because I love it's theme, I was expecting to like the game, but it's just too frustrating to deal with.
 
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kittoo

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While I finished the game, as a person who loves souls games and bloodborne, its really not for me. I liked it,but it is really restrictive in what i wants you to do. It forces you on one playstyle (no shielding like souls, no dodging like bloodborne), has fewer branching routes than souls games (where if i was stuck at one boss, i could progress in other routes and buff up and come back), has practically no level up (i mean like souls where i could farm and then level up my health, attack etc), has very few different weapons which i could find and upgrade.
So i didnt really like as much as earlier soulsborne games.
Its beautiful though. In 4K HDR on my C9 it looked absolutely gorgeous.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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i never parried in Souls, but it wasn't a problem, i learned it. it's called learning new tactics lol. there was a time when Dark Souls was daunting to me as well. you just git gud. if you fail to learn, it's not that the game is too hard, it's that you give up too easily.

not that it's easy. far from it. Sekiro is the hardest Soulsborne imo. that last boss fight is the best thing they've done yet.

Nioh is cheap and trashy, i rage quit that game many times over. the bosses just are not fun. level designs suck. it's a half decent ripoff but anyone comparing it favorably i laugh at them.
 
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Bartski

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I beat Bloodborne first time without parrying a single attack. Didn't get it, couldn't do it.

After beating Sekiro twice, I came back to NG+ Bloodborde just to realize my gamer brain has evolved, developed a new skill and I can parry everything with ease.

Retired Ludwig Holy Blade for Evelyn & Chickage, triple clawmark rune set and went through just dominating.

Blows my mind how much better that already masterpiece of a game got when playing it this way. Pure Miyazaki genius -beating new games teaches you how to play older titles in a more satisfying way
 

Arachnid

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I beat Bloodborne first time without parrying a single attack. Didn't get it, couldn't do it.

After beating Sekiro twice, I came back to NG+ Bloodborde just to realize my gamer brain has evolved, developed a new skill and I can parry everything with ease.

Retired Ludwig Holy Blade for Evelyn & Chickage, triple clawmark rune set and went through just dominating.

Blows my mind how much better that already masterpiece of a game got when playing it this way. Pure Miyazaki genius -beating new games teaches you how to play older titles in a more satisfying way
Damn, I need to give it a post-Sekiro playthrough then. I platinumed the entire game.

Still can't parry lmao
 

DunDunDunpachi

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I beat Bloodborne first time without parrying a single attack. Didn't get it, couldn't do it.

After beating Sekiro twice, I came back to NG+ Bloodborde just to realize my gamer brain has evolved, developed a new skill and I can parry everything with ease.

Retired Ludwig Holy Blade for Evelyn & Chickage, triple clawmark rune set and went through just dominating.

Blows my mind how much better that already masterpiece of a game got when playing it this way. Pure Miyazaki genius -beating new games teaches you how to play older titles in a more satisfying way
I beat Sekiro twice then booted up Bloodborne for a fresh playthrough.

And my experience was similar to yours: I mostly ignored parrying in previous runs, but compared to Sekiro I realized the parrying in BB is really easy. I began using it all the time while pumping up Bloodtinge. The only wrinkle is that certain enemy attacks either have superarmor and cannot be shot-parried, or the timing is so specific that it's too hard to reliably parry without getting hit. Other than that, I was parrying mofos with ease. Doing an Evelyn + Chikage with high Bloodtinge build for the first time to take advantage of those visceral attacks. It's fun.

I also appreciate Sekiro's enemy AI after going back to BB. Even the basic Sekiro enemies have a good mixture of offensive and defensive responses and they will put up a decent fight. Enemies in BB feel much easier to manipulate and play footsies with. I love BB but replaying it has crystalized my belief that Sekiro's combat is best in the series.

I'll take quality combat and enemy AI over Muh build variety.
 

WindomURL

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I beat Sekiro twice then booted up Bloodborne for a fresh playthrough.

And my experience was similar to yours: I mostly ignored parrying in previous runs, but compared to Sekiro I realized the parrying in BB is really easy. I began using it all the time while pumping up Bloodtinge. The only wrinkle is that certain enemy attacks either have superarmor and cannot be shot-parried, or the timing is so specific that it's too hard to reliably parry without getting hit. Other than that, I was parrying mofos with ease. Doing an Evelyn + Chikage with high Bloodtinge build for the first time to take advantage of those visceral attacks. It's fun.

I also appreciate Sekiro's enemy AI after going back to BB. Even the basic Sekiro enemies have a good mixture of offensive and defensive responses and they will put up a decent fight. Enemies in BB feel much easier to manipulate and play footsies with. I love BB but replaying it has crystalized my belief that Sekiro's combat is best in the series.

I'll take quality combat and enemy AI over Muh build variety.
Seriously- I had never actually finished Bloodborne's DLC. Had made it to the orphan when it first came out but never bothered beating it. Died a couple times and moved on to another game. It's a horrible habit where I get close to completing a game and just move on. Shameful.

But I did a fresh run in BB after going through Sekiro a few times last year. Ended up beating the orphan on my first try using my newfound parry skills. I lol'd. Sekiro changes everything.

Ludwig still gave me some grief though. Fucking ludwig.
 
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Orphan is one of the few Soulsborne bosses I didn't beat. There were more, but I gradually knocked them all off on repeat play throughs. I couldn't beat Manus for years but I finally kicked his ass playing the remastered version. Darklurker and Orphan remain. Darklurker because it's a giant pain in the ass to get to, and Orphan because I no longer have a PS4.
 

Bartski

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Even though Bloodborne is my game of the generation for a lot of other reasons, I think Sekiro is a phenomenal achievement in game design and contains easily one of the best, most satisfying combat systems ever made in a videogame. It totally proves that less is more.

Speaking of AI...
For those feeling it's a bit too much for them to handle - I get it.

Sekiro was the first time it ever occurred to me how much I love a game, while at the same time how close I am to actually giving up on it.

I seriously had moments when I thought I will never beat Genichiro on top of Ashina castle. Every time I somehow managed to get to phase 3, I was so riled up being this close to winning - I was immediately doing something stupid and getting wrecked in seconds. We're talking HOURS of failing. When I finally did it, it's really hard to compare to anything I remember from my recent years of gaming. And IMO the reason why that boss was so damn amazing in ways some other bosses may fall short - aside from the door trick discovered much later on (I played the game on release) - there was no real known way to cheese him.

This might not be the most popular opinion among Sekiro fans but I think the Immortal Severence/Purification ending Ishin was not the highest point of the game.
For one reason alone - you could beat him real slow by just constantly running away from him, baiting the plunge attack, punishing and running away again (actually, same goes for the first Owl)... and because of how damn hard-hitting he is - it's a tactic you're more likely than not gonna resort to, just because it works. I have to admit - I never managed to defeat him without some degree of this hit and run cheese, especially in phase 3, which always made me beat the campaign with the victory feeling somehow incomplete.

With Genichiro however, the moment you tried to run was the moment you were getting an arrow up your ass.

You had to face him, be aggressive and outparry him, GET GOOD at it - to really feel what it's all about. Perseverance until victory.

That is exactly what made it so brilliant and why this game deserved al the GOTYs it got.

I really hope Elden Ring will feature some kind of a parry mechanic, perhaps not as mandatory to master as here but an option you can steer your build towards. I know I will.
 

WingedEagle

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There's no such boss you cannot master. You haven't learned him yet or your tactics too defensive, the game from a get-go pretty much tells in your face that defensive style is not the way to play this game. If you're doing it right, even tough boss's one phase can be defeated within 1-2 minutes. One thing people keep repeating that the game is not fair, I very disagree. Bosses are still just dumb AI that has certain moves pattern and cannot learn anything new beyond that, you on the other hand have that ability. Yes, most bosses will be killing you a lot at first, but after you learn them they all fall like sorry children.

How the hell do I get past Isshin Ashina?
 

Manji Uzuki

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I think the combat system in Sekiro was a nice twist but I wouldn't repeat it. In fact I got a bit tired at the end of all the fights feeling a bit similar so when I finished the game I felt I was done with it, making it the only recent From Software game I didn't replayed. Still I think it's a fantastic game, but it abuses the parry mechanic. That plus having less customization as previous games give it less replayability value IMO. Bloodborne still has the best combat for me.

Would really like they keep the verticality of the traversal and levels design in future games. To me that's probably the biggest improvement of the game.
 

Danjin44

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Same. I'm at the Fountainhead Palace and he's still by far the hardest boss I've faced so far.
He was hard when I faced him on my first playthrough but thanks to him the combat clicked for me. the deal with Genichiro is that he actually has low posture compare to other bosses you will face later on and that mini boss you faced before Genichiro was trying to teach you that.
 

WingedEagle

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Slash him until he dies.


And if that doesn't work, there are plenty of youtube videos explaining in depth all kinds of strategies that will. Good luck!

Not sure what my problem is but I've tried all that. Owl was a cakewalk compared to this guy.
 
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My favorite From game is still Dark Souls, but nearing the end of my first playthrough, I'm really coming around to Sekiro being their best.

Random observation: I enjoy the eavesdropping mechanic and the idea that even Wolf's allies could have ulterior motives.
 

Bartski

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Not sure what my problem is but I've tried all that. Owl was a cakewalk compared to this guy.

try
running away from him, baiting the plunge attack, punishing and running away again

that's how I did it the first time. It sucks, but it works.

EDIT: wait you're talking about Isshin at the Shura ending ? For that one I have no recipe other than to practice. It took me a while but it's still much easier than Immortal Severence/Purification version. All speedrunners go that path so you can check some of those, good strats
 
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WingedEagle

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try


that's how I did it the first time. It sucks, but it works.

EDIT: wait you're talking about Isshin at the Shura ending ? For that one I have no recipe other than to practice. It took me a while but it's still much easier than Immortal Severence/Purification version. All speedrunners go that path so you can check some of those, good strats

That's the one. From everything I've seen he's not even considered the hardest boss in the game yet unquestionably given me more fits than anyone.
 

tassletine

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The game is very unbalanced. The swordplay is generally superb, but the feeling you get from beating the bosses is way out of proportion with the rest of the levels and combat. It makes you feel like you've accomplished something, sure (eventually) but I actually got bored fighting some of them, which is something that should never happen.

All the the criticism, good or bad, seems to be about the bosses, but few mention the empty levels and mechanics like ledge hanging or stealth that serve almost no purpose and just seem to be there because it's a 'mainstream' title and a title like this should have those mechanics by default. What the game needs is consistency -- and without the bosses I doubt Sekiro would even be talked about much. It's really only their difficulty that makes it stand out from the crowd, unlike previous From titles.

I do love battling though, when it works it's great, Seven Ashina Spears is a highlight (just the right difficulty there) but it feels very much like a game that wasn't playtested and rushed towards the end.
It's got a whole 'what am I supposed to be doing here' vibe that I really don't dig --Even with all those tutorial messages popping up until mid game it just doesn't flow. I don't think I can ever forgive them for the brick wall of Genichiro. I really blame Activision though.
About an 8/10 for me. I just wish there was more to it, as when it works it's great.
 

IbizaPocholo

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Virex

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This game is just too hard to enjoy and co-op would have helped on the tougher sections. I really do not know how this gets such good reviews in all honesty and doesn’t even look great either, mind you all from games look last gen.
You should get acquainted with Gito Gudayoshi
 
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Hostile_18

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I still think Sekiro is too hard for me but I'm giving it one last go because I love all the other games so much, it breaks my heart I havent enjoyed this lol.

My friend who's not that good at games got all the way to the final boss, took one look at Bloodborne and noped out. I've beat every Soulsborne game and DLC and really struggled with this past the point of fun. I'm not sure what it is that makes me so good at the prior games and so shit at this.

One last go see if I can get into it 😭
 

J3nga

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I still think Sekiro is too hard for me but I'm giving it one last go because I love all the other games so much, it breaks my heart I havent enjoyed this lol.

My friend who's not that good at games got all the way to the final boss, took one look at Bloodborne and noped out. I've beat every Soulsborne game and DLC and really struggled with this past the point of fun. I'm not sure what it is that makes me so good at the prior games and so shit at this.

One last go see if I can get into it 😭
Fighting pattern that worked in DS/BB doesn't here.
1. Be offensive
2. Keep mid distance from an enemy
3. Watch out for your posture and enemy's too.
4. in most cases go for enemy's posture rather than
5. Git gud
 
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Rubberwald

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My favorite From Software game and I haven't even finished it yet. I've been playing it for at least half a year, on and off when I get stuck on a certain boss. Couldn't beat Guardian Ape (I think I tried it around 200 times), abandoned the game for a month or so, got back to it and kicked his ass on the 10th try or so.
 

Hostile_18

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Fighting pattern that worked in DS/BB doesn't here.
1. Be offensive
2. Keep mid distance from an enemy
3. Watch out for your posture and enemy's too.
4. in most cases go for enemy's posture rather than
5. Git gud

Do I spam press parry or just at last minute? I actually think I was leaving it too long to press lol. From what I recall Bloodborne was quite offensive strategy wise.

That chain orgre mini boss the menu says to dodge it but his jump almost auto locks on to me, eventually it connects.

Which way is best to go first the present or the past? 😊
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Earlier in the year I beat Sekiro twice, then took a break to replay my favorite FROM title, Bloodborne, for comparison. This weekend I beat Micolash Cage and unlocked the shortcut to just prior to the nurse. I'm not going for the special ending so that'll be about it after one more boss. Currently clocked at 30 hours and I did a ton of chalice stuff, too. One of my faster BB playthroughs.

I think Sekiro is gonna take my crown from BB, though. Returning to BB's stat-based combat is noticeable. Losing my jump and my grappling hook is noticeable. Going back to fighting groups of enemies in narrow passages with very simple AI routines is noticeable. BB still takes the cake in terms of music, lore, and setting (as much as I love the shinobi theme), but otherwise Sekiro wins the rest.


Hostile_18 Hostile_18 Two pieces of advice: Sekiro has far more ways to cheese and spam a battle, but it ain't borderline broke like in previous FROM games. Instead of shooting the gargoyles through the fog or hooking Father G on the gravestone geometry for easy hits, you're using firecrackers and air-counters and hopping on their head after sweeps and so forth. So get comfy with your tools and use them frequently.

The other piece is to learn parry timing one enemy move at a time. If you're up against a midboss or boss, get cozy countering just one of their moves reliably. Just one is fine. Avoid the others. And if you're feeling pro, learn the tell for a sweep attack so that you can do a Goomba-stomp on them (when applicable). Parrying isn't an all or nothing thing. You can wreck enemies as long as you can reliably (there's that word again...) counter just one or two of their moves and then be patient in between. Naturally, the fastest and most engaging way is to counter all their moves and aggressively take them down, but that kind of stylish play can come later. Even the toughest bosses can be overcome as long as you can reliably spot and react to one or two of their moves.

Every enemy attack is an opportunity, and every un-parried attack is lost potential damage against your enemy's posture.

Visiting the past will give you some very useful tools to use through the rest of the game.
 
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Hostile_18

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770
UK
Thanks for all the info, I'll try my best! I think I got up to the flying lady in the past and the giant snake on my original run.