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Senua’s Saga: Hellblade 2: It Took 1 Month for Artists to Create That 40ft Film-Quality Troll

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Troll? That doesn’t look like a Troll. Doesn’t she even call it Giant in the trailer?

At which point in the trailer does she or anyone for that matter call it a giant?
The trailer is literally in the OP.
You can rewatch it.
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
At which point in the trailer does she or anyone for that matter call it a giant?
The trailer is literally in the OP.
You can rewatch it.
After setting it on fire and it comes out of the fog, at 3:45, she says “Giant, over here…”.
Thats what i heard rewatching it twice. You can rewatch it too.
 
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Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
After setting it on fire and it comes out of the fog, at 3:45, she says “Giant, over here…”.
Thats what i heard rewatching it twice. You can rewatch it too.

One of her voices says "do it!" then Senua says "Over here....Im over here.....Take me"


You can read transcripts on youtube btw.
 
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Ozriel

M$FT
While true, you’re adorable. The same people who called those cinematic adventures, “boring movie games we can watch on YouTube,” are now gushing over the once multiplat “repetitive” game they now see as their own.

When are we all going to drop the baby nuts façade and admit it’s both sides of the same coin, aka,
Spider-Man Reaction GIF

?

Proof that it's the same people? Any quotes to share?
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Forget the transcripts, turn your volume up and listen at 3:45, she says Giant.
Read above.
Is it her or her voices that say Giant?

Ill listen when I get my headphones.
Its no biggy either way....maybe Ziva was told its a troll and given concept art, nobody knows what trolls look like, so they made what they were told to make and they call it a troll....its a giant troll but a troll nonetheless in universe.
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
Read above.
Is it her or her voices that say Giant?

Ill listen when I get my headphones.
Its no biggy either way....maybe Ziva was told its a troll and given concept art, nobody knows what trolls look like, so they made what they were told to make and they call it a troll....its a giant troll but a troll nonetheless in universe.
I am not sure, it sounded like she herself says it.

Yeah possibly, it just doesn’t look like any troll i have ever seen be it fantasy or scandinavian mythology.
The internal name, in the files, for that creature would be interestin.
 

NahaNago

Member
My opinion on the troll/giant was at times it looked amazing and at times it looked last gen. No idea how that works out, maybe a lighting thing since it should be the same model going through the animation.
A 40ft troll is a giant too...
always thought giants were just tall humans and a troll was just a troll even if he is giant sized.
 

Corndog

Banned
I just get that feeling MS will axe this studio because this won’t get alot of playtime and they are taking so long to make a game and wasting so much money on what is possibly a short game. There isn’t as much hype for this either.
I guess you haven’t followed halo infinite development. Took 6 years.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
I just get that feeling MS will axe this studio because this won’t get alot of playtime and they are taking so long to make a game and wasting so much money on what is possibly a short game. There isn’t as much hype for this either.
3WcNeh3.jpeg

Pretty much game of the show.
Other developers are gushing over it.
Itll likely sweep DICE and BAFTA awards when it launches.
It couldnt be worse than the first game so a high 80s Opencritic score is all but guaranteed.
Itll sell well enough on Steam.
The studio is notoriously good at keeping costs down.
They literally just bought the studio pretty much to fund this very game.

But yeah youre right everything points to MS likely going axe this studio.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
I just get that feeling MS will axe this studio because this won’t get alot of playtime and they are taking so long to make a game and wasting so much money on what is possibly a short game. There isn’t as much hype for this either.

This reads like wishful thinking on your part, tbh

Ninja theory are one of the best acquisitions MS made, and they're a studio capable of punching above their weight.

They also have multiple projects in the works
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
A 40ft troll is a giant too...
“giant”(as in large) Troll =/= Giant
At least when it comes to norse mythology.

always thought giants were just tall humans and a troll was just a troll even if he is giant sized.
Mythology wise Giants, Humans and Trolls are different beings/species.
And while Trolls can be large, they don’t really look like large humans.

But oh well, the trailer looked good regardless. ☺️


Edit:
png-transparent-white-animal-silhouette-moomintroll-moomins-snufkin-coloring-book-moominhouse-child-white-mammal-child.png
 
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BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
I don't want to stir up shit up or anything, but if this game was done on the PS5 the troll would be photorealistic and look like the hostess of The Game Awards with big glistening titties bouncing at 144 FPS w/ amazing HDR.

For real though, those rendering times seem extreme? Like whatever application / tools they're using don't scale well or something, or they didn't pay for enough compute in those AWS clusters. Eh what do I know, not an animator.
 
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NahaNago

Member
“giant”(as in large) Troll =/= Giant
At least when it comes to norse mythology.


Mythology wise Giants, Humans and Trolls are different beings/species.
And while Trolls can be large, they don’t really look like large humans.

But oh well, the trailer looked good regardless. ☺️
I wasn't basing this off of mythology, I was just going by if you see a large troll you don't think giant, you think troll. Versus if you see a gigantic human you think giant.
 
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DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
I have to agree with this.

When Ready at Dawn released The Order 1886, it’s obvious they tried to go the Naughty Dog route. But they tried so hard and lost the plot, they went the Quantic Dream route.

They think they are making a Cinematic game, but they just end up feeling like a interactive train track.

Run back, throw spear, Run back, throw spear. Like what the heck was that.

It's 5 minutes of the game. Did anyone play heavenly sword or the first game? There are sections like this. It's not far from something like uncharted 4 where your getting dragged by the rope in my opinion. All your doing is moving a reticle and pulling the trigger. No different from the tech demo shooting section of the matrix demo.

There will absolutely be combat sections like hellblade 1
 

Dolodolo

Member
These Hellblade threads are filled with people who obviously didn’t play the first. I think they assume it’s more like GOW and less 75% visualization puzzles that it actually is. It’s a cinematic experience that uses sound and atmosphere to tell a story. It’s more akin to a plagues tale than GOW. Slow walking from beat to beat is what the game is…and it was an amazing experience for it.
First of all, it is a game. Not a movie. God knows what else. The game.
If a person is not interested in playing in this, then do not care how wonderful the graphics, atmosphere and content are.

In terms of graphics, Hellblade 2 looks the best that is currently on the market and will be in the next year (Maybe two)
But, it doesn’t matter if, as a game, it’s a dull walk with a couple of actions.

And stop giving the first game as an example. It was a project made for a penny by the standards of the gaming industry.
This is largely why he is considered a cult in some circles. Also for the cool sound and the very concept of psychosis. It was very exhausting to play. The fight there was very tiring.

Everything was very tedious there, except for the sound quality and the general concept of the story.
This is no ordinary indie studio these days. This is a studio under one of the largest companies in the world. And I don't give a damn what conceptual feature the game should have.
There is no development in this trailer other than amazing graphics ( really amazing)

And if the development of the combat system (and other aspects for which the project was criticized) are not improved, then to hell with this sequel. Another Order 1886 nobody wants a fuck.

The last Halo had the opposite problem. In terms of naked game mechanics, it is almost flawless. But, otherwise, this project is 15 years backward. And even in spite of this, the gameplay outweighed, and the project received high scores.

The new God of War and The Last of us 2 (Yes. Nobody cares about a bunch of whiners who didn't like the fact that in the story someone killed, whom they did not expect. This game has most of the custom games of the year. Check it out for yourself) are amazing and even the masterpieces of the industry, not because there is insane cinematography (although this is true), but also because there is a wonderful gameplay core.

And if Ninja Theory is not able to capture the most important aspect, then let them not do Hellblade 2 at all.
 

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
I thought these guys where a wholly owned MS studio and did I see a PS5 logo at the end?? If so bloody great as it looks incredible, never played the first one so I'll have to rectify that..

Apologies, it was Alan Wake 2 I seen the logo, ffs watched all the trailers back to back... Damn you Xbox fans!!! Youse have a helluva good looking game to look forward too
 
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I don't know shit about game development, so I'll take dev's word for it when they say modern game development is much harder than it was 20 years ago. The only reason games come out at the pace they do is the dramatically larger industry than what existed back then.
 

Deanington

Member
First time watching the trailer, was pretty cool. Now I have context about the Twitter goofs going back and forth with this and Horizon. I liked the giant human thing too :messenger_beaming:
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
Resident Evil 4 and MGSV are all that you've mentioned, but you know that else?

They're games first and foremost.
They're not trying to pretend they're movies and sacrificing interactivity for the sake of "muh emotions" and "muh art".

They respect the medium and they're proud of being a part of the medium, and not ashamed of it.
Making a game that has mundane interactivity for the sake of telling a story just exposes how these developers hate video games, and instead want to do something else entirely.

And here I though Shadow of the Colossus was enough to prove how you can perfectly blend storytelling and gameplay without having to sacrifice one over the other.
But no, some people in the industry just want to pretend they're in Hollywood and want to sell their interactive B movie as a "game"
I mentioned Resident Evil 4 and MGSV? When? I said God of War, TLOU2, Days Gone...are you sure you're replying to the right person.

Assuming you are actually replying to me...since when are a person's emotions and art mutually exclusive from something being a real game? Have you played Final Fantasy before?

I don't know about you but Final Fantasy 8 was the first game I can remember making me tear up. I never understood the idea of "tear-jerkers" until I played that game. Still a great game.

Are you saying MGSV is not a real game...but more of a B-Movie? That's just astonishing to me.
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
RE4 and MGSV are games that belong to the same genre to those other games you've mentioned. You know, "third person, over the shoulder, story based..."


Please, point out where exactly I said that.
And yes, I like Final Fantasy.


Are you ok?

It Hurts Belgian Football GIF by Univision Deportes
Ok, I apologize, there may be a language barrier preventing me understanding your point.

You said that I mentioned Resident Evil 4 and MGSV. While they are over the shoulder, 3rd person and story driven I was confused that you brought them up at all, especially saying that I mentioned them...because I didn't mention them.

I'm just really confused at this point Slime.
 

th4tguy

Member
Translation:
We had 3 of our guys learn a lot of new tech to build what you saw. It took about 4 times longer than it will now that they are familiar with the process.


In all seriousness, of course it took a long time. They are making use of machine learning, aws clusters, and also getting a grasp on ue5.

I’m sure they could have had very similar results just doing the animation in a more traditional fashion in far less time.
Really not sure what the machine learning brought to the table here that either reduced dev time or improved quality.


Edit: thinking more on it, the studio could set up key frames and utilize the machine learning to fill in the gaps with their library of animations. Then the animators just go in and clean up any wonkiness. That would help a lot with time.
 
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Akuji

Member
the troll is pretty impressive but 1 month? Makes me wonder what time other games take with their big models ... the general shaders and everything is way more impressive then the model i think. it doesnt look ... extra special to me.
 

mejin

Member
"Gameplay"

Seriously, making gameplay and cutscenes seamless was something that was probably impressive back when Metal Gear Solid 4 was announced.
This trailer just makes the project look like a movie with "on rails" interactive segments inbetween.

Just like the original game
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Sounds like a normal amount of time; looked good.

the troll is pretty impressive but 1 month? Makes me wonder what time other games take with their big models ... the general shaders and everything is way more impressive then the model i think. it doesnt look ... extra special to me.

I take it you guys are talking from all those years of character sculpting, machine learning expertise........ skin, muscle and skeleton simulations youve been doing over the years right?
I do wonder where you got access to a 15 machine cluster to actually run those simulations tho?


Whats being done here....isnt done in other games is the point exactly.
Most large assets arent actually modelled and trained to scale cuz thats just crazy, model something and scale it up in the DCC, then animate it to "look big and behave big" based on the limited knowledge we have of big things (even soft body physics we have these days are cool but terribly in accurate)......this thing behaves like what a 40ft troll/giant would behave like in world space due to the simulations and ML training process, they modelled an actually 40ft troll to feed to the simulations that they later fed to the ML algorithm.
And all its fat, skin and muscles were simulated to accurately get this result.

The point is, they taught an ML algorithm how a 40ft troll would behave locomotion, fat, skin and all with 12GB worth of simulation data all within 1 month with 3 techies.

Under this things skin theres all these simulations going on:
5c3fa82328665ff471832fe0_ezgif-3-1c7876392481.gif


5c3faa3819204a0409c2053b_ezgif-3-d2de35734d82.gif


5c3faab0a85d7dc3a3d36371_ezgif-3-2cfeaf26eed0.gif


But instead of being a baked solution an algorithm was just taught what the "correct" results should be so it can actually perform the simulations in real time.
Its absolutely insane to think about.


P.S Its not a Trex under the skin, I couldnt find good examples of a humanoid model in all 3 rather 4 stages.
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
Maybe I could've worded it different, but to make things clear.

1. I didn't say that you mentioned those games
2. I mentioned those games as examples of "over the shoulder, 3rd person, story driven" games.

Because you said:


And I used those games as examples of why the issue is *not* that they're "over the shoulder, 3rd person, story driven" games, and instead it's because *some* of them -- in this case, Hellblade -- are projects that way too often take interactivity away from the player, which is exactly what makes games as a medium stand out from movies.

Thus my point of, if they want to take interactivity away so much from the players, why don't they make a movie instead? (or market their project as an interactive story, like a CYOA, visual novel or whatever). The trailer title clearly reads: "Gameplay", but there is none!

Also, I owe you an apology for the gif, my bad.
I see now. Ok yea I can aggree with that. While I enjoyed the original HellBlade, the "gameplay" was pretty shallow. You had some basic combat, some puzzles but alot of the game was focused more on the cinematic feel.

I agree that each game should be considered for what it brings to the player. I would hardly call TLOU2 or God of War a "walking simulator". I get people can get tired of the same general formula...but looked at in a vacuum all these games are great for different reasons. I personally don't mind cinetic games as long as the gameplay is there too. I think Uncharted 4 does a great job at mixing both. Hellblade, maybe less so.
 
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