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Senua’s Saga: Hellblade 2: It Took 1 Month for Artists to Create That 40ft Film-Quality Troll
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- News Game Dev
all fine and dandy but is the work really worth it? if the troll is an important part of the story and has alot of screentime maybe. especially if now they can do whatever they want with the troll in a timely manner.I take it you guys are talking from all those years of character sculpting, machine learning expertise........ skin, muscle and skeleton simulations youve been doing over the years right?
I do wonder where you got access to a 15 machine cluster to actually run those simulations tho?
Whats being done here....isnt done in other games is the point exactly.
Most large assets arent actually modelled and trained to scale cuz thats just crazy, model something and scale it up in the DCC, then animate it to "look big and behave big" based on the limited knowledge we have of big things (even soft body physics we have these days are cool but terribly in accurate)......this thing behaves like what a 40ft troll/giant would behave like in world space due to the simulations and ML training process, they modelled an actually 40ft troll to feed to the simulations that they later fed to the ML algorithm.
And all its fat, skin and muscles were simulated to accurately get this result.
The point is, they taught an ML algorithm how a 40ft troll would behave locomotion, fat, skin and all with 12GB worth of simulation data all within 1 month with 3 techies.
Under this things skin theres all these simulations going on:
But instead of being a baked solution an algorithm was just taught what the "correct" results should be so it can actually perform the simulations in real time.
Its absolutely insane to think about.
P.S Its not a Trex under the skin, I couldnt find good examples of a humanoid model in all 3 rather 4 stages.
there are alot of complex and great animated models in gaming. this doesnt really seem like a goto move like raytracing or whatever. what especially is the benefit for the player?
The robots in horizon did take an equal amount? they should be around the same size and the best thing that comes to mind for a comparison.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I dunno, I found the actual troll model to be one of the less impressive things about the trailer.
And before anyone jumps on me I don't mean it was in any way bad, just that I think the human characters and the overall lighting and VFX to be far more impactful towards the total effect. There is a lot of stuff going on in there; High quality particle and debris effects, a very accurate DoF/focus-pull sim, a really well judged overall grading scheme with subtle use of chromatic aberration and a dingy green filter.
Above all else the direction and sound design of the sequence is top-notch. Because again (as with the reveal trailer) they are doing a lot with relatively few assets. Basically there's a rocky beach set with a cave, and a few barricade like structures for set dressing. The entire sequence runs up and back down a strictly linear track with what looks like a fairly limited number of animations for Senua's tribe (note the sequences where they leap on the troll's back inside and on the exit from the cave seemingly reuse the exact same animation).
Its really cleverly staged so you don't see too much in the way of direct interaction between the troll and everything else because they hide it behind smoke or debris particles which is a great way to keep resource usage down. The downside is that it looks like everything is mo-capped with I suspect 3 actors per shot (they double this up in spots, but they likely composite it in from separate takes as they never directly interact) and it looks like its reusing stuff from the initial reveal for the set dressing, which really makes me wonder how far along the project is.
My gut feeling is that this game is at a minimum a couple of years out, maybe even longer. This is great stuff and they clearly have the tech down, but its basically a 5 minute set-piece with minimal gameplay possibilities. Its blazingly obvious the sheer amount of work that's gone into it, but in all fairness its a tiny sliver of content.
And before anyone jumps on me I don't mean it was in any way bad, just that I think the human characters and the overall lighting and VFX to be far more impactful towards the total effect. There is a lot of stuff going on in there; High quality particle and debris effects, a very accurate DoF/focus-pull sim, a really well judged overall grading scheme with subtle use of chromatic aberration and a dingy green filter.
Above all else the direction and sound design of the sequence is top-notch. Because again (as with the reveal trailer) they are doing a lot with relatively few assets. Basically there's a rocky beach set with a cave, and a few barricade like structures for set dressing. The entire sequence runs up and back down a strictly linear track with what looks like a fairly limited number of animations for Senua's tribe (note the sequences where they leap on the troll's back inside and on the exit from the cave seemingly reuse the exact same animation).
Its really cleverly staged so you don't see too much in the way of direct interaction between the troll and everything else because they hide it behind smoke or debris particles which is a great way to keep resource usage down. The downside is that it looks like everything is mo-capped with I suspect 3 actors per shot (they double this up in spots, but they likely composite it in from separate takes as they never directly interact) and it looks like its reusing stuff from the initial reveal for the set dressing, which really makes me wonder how far along the project is.
My gut feeling is that this game is at a minimum a couple of years out, maybe even longer. This is great stuff and they clearly have the tech down, but its basically a 5 minute set-piece with minimal gameplay possibilities. Its blazingly obvious the sheer amount of work that's gone into it, but in all fairness its a tiny sliver of content.
Of course it is. Ones a trailer and one is a interactive movie.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Remember when Senuas Sacrifice used realtime motion capture and animations and everyone asked why would we need to do that when we can do the motion capture post process it and fix it the way we used to.
Heck Uncharted 3 in 2011 did an amazing job with motion capture already.....this is nothing special.
Then they demoed their technology at GDC and basically every developer was like fuck me this is the future (I think they even won an award at that GDC(dont quote me)).....but gamers were still saying I dont see anything special.
Well think of this as another one of those moments, where developers realize how impressive this is, but gamers who have no idea whats actually going on dont think anything special is going on. (If something is beyond you....its beyond you, its okay to simply say I dont understand why this is impressive)
The robots in Horizon are basically hand animated with a procedural layer on top and literally dont have bone, muscle, skin layers.....what simulations could you possibly need?
Even Kronos is God of War 3 who I imagine you are gonna bring up next because you think this is simply a testament of scale or something, didnt actually have any underlying simulations, an artist just animated him and any softbody materials where applied where necessary artistically.
Remember sometimes a new technology or techniques doesnt make sense to end user because they cant see the full benefit basically till they see games or systems without that technique.
Having ML trained algorithms that can handle these kind of simulations in real time will let developers basically make super realistic characters and creatures that have "real" bone, muscle and skin working and animate in realistic fashions.........but but but we already have brilliant animations, softbody and skin models?
Thats what we said when SSS was first introduced......we said it again when micro details were first introduced.....we said it when mocap was first joining the scene.....we said it again when randomwalk SSS came into play.
sendit
Member
What drugs are you on? Real time motion capture is and has already been used in games before the inception of Hellblade.
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Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
I dont think you understand .
Hellblade was the first time they did real time motion capture in engine with production quality assets.
The demo they showed at GDC people thought was capture data that was then injected into the engine....the way we used to do motion capture. (in fact most studios still do it like this)
Motion capture prior was done using pre-viz visuals usually in a stripped down version of the engine or some other software and without an environment let alone post processing.
Yes it was realtime but it wasnt in engine in the actual environment with the actual final models being animated in real time.
The iteration time of using basically your final assets is cutdown because the director can see pretty much exactly what he just shot.
Uncharted 4 "realtime" motion capture:
^They literally just capture data actually then use that data to inject into the engine. And ND were probably the best in the business at this time. But even they basically just used to capture point cloud data.....nothing anywhere near the level of Senuas Sacrifice.
Senuas Sacrifice.
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SenjutsuSage
Banned
A lot of games have on rails interactive gameplay segments; games millions of people love. They serve their purpose by being a nicer looking way to fill in the game's story outside of pure cutscenes.
HieroglyphicMonk
Banned
People are going to call you a Sony fanboy now... when you get a look at Senua's skin does her face even look as good as a players face in NBA 2k? I don't feel like there's much detail. I rewatched the old reveal trailer and nothing in this new trailer is on that level. In no way am I saying it's bad but I'm not sure if it looks better than Horizon. I've never played a Horizon and never care to....
I doubt anyone wants to compare the troll to the Robot Turtle or Elephant.
Nhranaghacon02
Banned
I'm The Guy That Can Do This Type Of Thing, Would Take Me Under Half A Day To Make The Skeleton Seen Here, The Muscle Strands, And Base Mesh as A Usable Asset!
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Whose alt account are you?
Nhranaghacon02
Banned
Not An Alt, The Only Excuse To Take A Month 'On' This Asset is To Interpret Dynamic Animation And Inject It Into The Game, I Personally Have Not Seen Anyone State (Or another playthrough to Verify) That The Giant Seen Here React's Differently And Immersively Depending On The Characters Actions.
That Sort Of Element Would Take Longer, Sure - But The Most Pertinent Reason It Would Take So Long To Model A Skeletal Mesh, A Base Muscle Mesh and The Giant Itself Would Be Due To
Creating The Character Based On What They've Had To Read Off A Paper, Describing The Character - Which Often Times Is Akin To Reading A Heavily Coded Manuscript.
Even The Animations, If On Hand Reference Were Available, Would Take An Animator No Longer Than A Day To Implement.
They Used ML Algorythms, To What Affect I Am Not Sure - If This Character Is Not Dynamic On Each Playthrough Then It Was Not Worth It If You Ask Me - Unless It Is Being Applied To All
NPC Characters. I'd Love To See Another Playthrough To Verify Whether The Character Reacts So Differently That These Artist's Needed To Refine This Specific Asset For A Month.
But As Far As Merely Creating The Models Seen, Would Take Anyone Expertly Knowledgably In Creation Under Half A Day Unless You Were Forced To Derive The Model From An Archaic Mess Of Text Descriptions.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
So you are saying these guys wasted a month when you could have done it in half a day.
Ziva Dynamics.....a company thats basically an industry standard and by industry I mean film industry....are fucking fools because you obviously know better and could have done it in half a day.
Why did Ninja Theory bother calling on them when you could have done it in half a day.
Why the fuck do any of these companys outsource to other studios when you could complete these models and animations in no time?
Sony are fikken idiots they just bought Valkyrie Entertainment for who knows how much when they could have hired N Nhranaghacon02 for a fraction of the price to complete a bunch of that outsourcing work.
Mate when the mods said you need to seek help they werent playing.
Please do.
Nhranaghacon02
Banned
I'm not sure what your issue is here, as far as creating the Giant - Yes, Creation Of An Asset Of That Caliber In Under Half A Day - Easy Peazy, The Skeleton Mesh And Muscle Mesh Too.So you are saying these guys wasted a month when you could have done it in half a day.
Ziva Dynamics.....a company thats basically an industry standard and by industry I mean film industry....are fucking fools because you obviously know better and could have done it in half a day.
Why did Ninja Theory bother calling on them when you could have done it in half a day.
Why the fuck do any of these companys outsource to other studios when you could complete these models and animations in no time?
Sony are fikken idiots they just bought Valkyrie Entertainment for who knows how much when they could have hired N Nhranaghacon02 for a fraction of the price to complete a bunch of that outsourcing work.
Mate when the mods said you need to seek help they werent playing.
Please do.
If The Sequence Specifically Involving the Giant Plays Out As A Canned Animation Every Playthrough, then I Am 100% Inferring They're Are Exploiting Customers Who Do Not Know Anybetter, Like Yourself.
I Am Comfortable Inferring This Now Too Considering Such Unhinged Response.
The Model On Display Here Is Nothing To Devote A Month On - Unless The Underlying Substrate Technology Was To The Be Applied Elsewhere. In Otherwords, The Animations Driving
This Character Are Either Fully Dynamic Or This Was Just Some PR Marketing.
Also, That is not Me But Please Continue To Spread Whatever Insanity You Maven.
this and The Matrix demo , really did something with peoples minds .. now CGI movie studios are even shit .So you are saying these guys wasted a month when you could have done it in half a day.
Ziva Dynamics.....a company thats basically an industry standard and by industry I mean film industry....are fucking fools because you obviously know better and could have done it in half a day.
Why did Ninja Theory bother calling on them when you could have done it in half a day.
Why the fuck do any of these companys outsource to other studios when you could complete these models and animations in no time?
Sony are fikken idiots they just bought Valkyrie Entertainment for who knows how much when they could have hired N Nhranaghacon02 for a fraction of the price to complete a bunch of that outsourcing work.
Mate when the mods said you need to seek help they werent playing.
Please do.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
How exactly are they exploiting customers?
Them telling us whether it took a day or a month or a year is of no real concern to people buying the game.
How would it be PR marketing to show off that you took a month to do whats supposed to take a day?
I think I might be having an acid flashback or something.
Im reading that guys posts and im like is he being serious.....he thinks a film industry studio wasted three of the team for a month when they could have done it in half a day?
Then made a blog post about it to show off what.....how inefficient they are?
Im outta here.
Think I need to get some sleep....see if this cat is still a member when I wake up.
Nhranaghacon02
Banned
I Am Of The Opinion, And You Will See This In My Matrix Tear Down - That Developers Have Consistently Pushed A Narrative On Gamers Even Into Last Gen - That
Some Of These Assets/Games Are So Hard To Make Because They Have To Be. They Don't, I Mean That Model - The Giant, If You Handed It To Me Today In T-Pose, Side View, Quarter View, Top View, Back View Ect - I could Create In No Less than 3 1/2 Hours From Photo Reference.
So The Narrative Here Really Is The Technology Driving The Animations, And Even Those Would Take Me A Day If I Had Specific Reference. However They've Created A New Method To Drive
This Character Specific, That Is The Real Reason It Likely Took Them A Month. Was It Worth It To You As A Consumer If It's Just Applied To One Set Piece Is The Real Question.
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Hawking Radiation
Member
I just can't get over the over-use of blur and chromatic aberration in this demo.
Looks less impressive when it looks like you've got fucking Vaseline smeared all over the camera lens.
I hope they tone things down in the final game on that front.
Looks less impressive when it looks like you've got fucking Vaseline smeared all over the camera lens.
I hope they tone things down in the final game on that front.
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Negotiator101
Member
Mate you're embarrassing yourself with this nonsense, you are not a professional artist/programmer. Ninja Thoery are at the cutting edge of technology in games, this is way beyond any current game on any system (not counting the Matrix technology demo).
Nhranaghacon02
Banned
Yet I Remain.
If You Are An Artist, And Can Not Yourself Create The Giant Model As An Asset Ready To Be Animated In Under A Day - That Is Attributed To You Specific, Not Me - Friend.
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Negotiator101
Member
Why are you using incorrect grammar?
Nhranaghacon02
Banned
Why Would Anyone Outright Call Someone A Liar And Attack Them With Hyperbole And Nonsense, When What Is Actually Stated Is A Masterful Gentle
Critique Of A Product Consumers Obviously Are Foaming At The Mouth Over - Either Way - PR Pieces Not Withstanding.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
How are posts like this even allowed here?
Negotiator101
Member
Masterful? Delusions of grandeur I see
JerryinSoCal
Member
Yeah her "attacks" had no impact on the Giant at all, honestly very few if any of the NPC attacks did either. They threw spears that hit him and he didn't even react at all so it was like they were throwing things at a wall. They went way over the top with the screen effects though, chromatic aberration needs to go away but it's used heavily here, so much so that it really degrades the clarity of everything screen which leads me to believe they are trying to mask some things.
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JerryinSoCal
Member
Chromatic aberration needs to be eliminated from games, why try to recreate flaws? Gaming isn't a passive experience like watching a movie it's interactive which means it should look as clear as if we were there not watching an old film shot with a bad lens.
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
.
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Nooooo man, don't do itAll good brother, have one for me as well.
Two years sober in a few days, myself. May break it soon though.
nono i understand what it does and i think its quite impressive. there are many impressive things crysis 1 did and no other game did ever again. like the wind mechanics and such.
I just dont see where the extra work on ML benefits anyone? because if you get equaly good performance by standard methods then why bother?
I can see it becoming a standard when there is no need to train for a specific set of muscles/bones/skelet but you just put in your model it auto generates all that and then does everything for you.
Game development needs to become more streamlined not less right now, the best thing here is that someone tackles that problem, maybe to early but hopefully it will advance the tech in a way that in the future developer will save a shitload of time.
I want more and better games not bigger time sinks.
That all being said that i understand the basis on what this is and how it works, maybe i dont understand enough about the steps needed for developing a game ( i am sure i dont actually ) and this is already a time saver?
But well i said in my first post that this is impressive and i still think it is but the time needed to achieve it is what i have a problem with.
hope you understand my point better now as well. Were both on the side " this tech is impressive " we're differ in "is this tech actually good enough for implementation yet?" where it seems you can answer that with a yes or atleast are supportive of it while i say
i dont know.
wish u a great day
Nhranaghacon02
Banned
The Best I Will Offer, Is I've worked on The Original Halo PC Port And Then Again With Ensemble Studios On Age Of Mythology, And With Valve On Half Life 2.Masterful? Delusions of grandeur I see
My name can be seen right at the Top Here, In The Credits Of Halo Pc.
The only delusions I see currently, are that of the Consumer. Consoles are far more capable than anything that's been put on display, considering the now
numerous post's saying "Didn't Believe we'd see graphics Like this, this Gen" well.. considering that Narrative is not relegated to a mere few - that's saying something.
I Hope you all Enjoy My Subsequent Teardowns when I Am Able.
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Negotiator101
Member
OK great, then why downplay what is IMO an incredible technical achievement from a studio of your peers?
Leyasu
Banned
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Very interested what Ninja Theory will achieve now with the access to that big budget allowing doing stuff like this.
Nhranaghacon02
Banned
That has been an ongoing problem for me, specific - as everyone else - customers, gamers, consumers - are rabidly foaming at the mouth over these assets, these trailers - I have for at least 6 years, been wondering why the industry has not started creating assets at A 1-1 Scale Ratio. At least in proportions, if not sheer Detail Volume. More Provocatively, Why we are not using a Full Photo UV Texture for An Asset Texture, where Artists commonly Only Sample From Photo's, to create their Own Base Texture.
It in fact, has been my number one complaint last gen into this Gen, Developers are touting the use of Materials Derived Directly From Photos and have been hyping such method, while merely taking a sample of A Photo... and producing and applying an artistically inspired Material Texture to a Model that is loosely based or sampled from the original photo. This Is A Problem I've noticed All of Last Generation and Into This Generation. It has been as if the Developers have intentionally held this Generation Back, by not applying it in full force last gen.
It Is A problem that needs to Stop, it is hurting innovation in CGI Graphics as Standard... And I can Only Imagine it is a Problem that has been Orchestrated to make the next Visual Jump Appear Even Larger than it would have been.. and something I Am going to Tackle in my Upcoming Breakdown Of The Matrix Awakens, where for the most part the Assets are, at least the Non-Human Assets, are what many would consider Photoreal.
That Is Solely Because They Are deriving the entire Asset from their reference material directly, and creating at a 1-1 Ratio the asset on screen (in most cases, not all) - This Includes the Material Texture, where they are not merely using a Sample - From Photographs, but 90% of a Photograph to Transpose onto the Asset and only painting in an area when forced. Which Produces the kind of Results You See in The Matrix Awakens.
But Most Artist's Impose Their own blemish on Assets These Days, and stitch together a texture - merely from a small sample area of the reference material. If Asset's Solved this one Flaw, Artists Merely Deriving their own Texture - From Photo Data - And then Artistically Applying it to Models - We Would Have Had Matrix Awakens Level Graphics Last Gen. But Even The Original Hellblade Is Guilty Of Painting out Detail To Some Extent in It's Original Inception, to lend the game a more Painterly/Softer Look (for performance? Simple Textures?) - And I Suppose It's Because Artists are either Instructed to Purposely Hold Back now that We've Been Able to use High Res Photos for All Textures without performance issues... Or Just Choose to obscure the original textures while developing their game, but It is An Industry Problem I Feel has long needed a discussion.
Photoreal Material Textures, as Base Standard have been used sparingly or merely sampled from in nearly all games reaching for Realism, and it's an easy fix that would typically not hinder performance - But Have The Consumers, Gamers, Customers... Even been Aware?
Meanwhile, this Giant - Sure - Could have taken A Month to create - barring many factors directly unconnected to the final product... but to create just the base model, that is no feat. Perhaps the Technology Driving it is, if being applied to other Assets and I'm sure they are inferring that somewhere but A Model... just creating such a Model - it does the entire industry and in particular - Gamers - a disservice to state the mere Organic Creation of a 3D Asset was such a task it took a Month... unless I suppose you are lumping it in with all the other work and refinement it took to apply it to that scene. And Even Then, I mean... they had to of closely for some reason curated every frame of that Giant to make it worthwhile and personally, everything else to me is far more spectacular than this set piece unless they begin to discuss how it reacts Dynamically to each situation leveraged. Which as far as I know they have not. It looks as good as an on rails interactive cutscene that one guy could do in less than a month, if he - and this is the important part - did not need to experiment, and Knew/had Exact Animation Reference. If He was tasked to come up with his own animations, and curate those animations to someone else liking... then there you go. So It's The ML Driving this Asset which made the Creation-Time Balloon and take up to A month, Unless Peer review amid extreme scrutiny caused multiple rebuilds of the look of this character and hopefully it pays off and can be applied to all assets.
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ColonialRaptor
Member
For the love of the light, this cross-gen period must end soon, please.
I've done some 3D sculpting and while I'm not fast, I know and have seen some people throw together a model sculpt in the time you're saying so I believe that. But my understanding of the months time to work on this Troll is the complete model for its use in this sequence, all the rigging, muscles, animation everything was prepared using ML. This is what took the month, they built the base model which yes probably took a day, then using ML they trained the animation system in a month. That's pretty outstanding considering I believe it would take longer than a month to fully ground up manually keyframe animate this whole sequence without the ML assistance. Any further instancing of this Troll in the game should have its dev time much reduced because of the time invested to train the ML animation system. I believe this kind of ML efficiency insertion into game development is absolutely critical to bring down the ever ballooning dev time for modern games.
Still, I do not properly understand what you're saying. Not having a go, but I assume English is not your first language? Using so many capitalised words affects your credibility because you're saying you're a skilled 3D artist yet your language skills do not seem to match what you're saying so I automatically assume that's the case but I'd still like to confirm as it will impact the credibility I give to your statements. It's always interesting to get perspectives from developers but I'm on the fence about the truth of your statements. I shouldn't need convincing but this is the internet of games and it wouldn't be the first time someone has artificially claimed to be an insider to try and ramp the importance of their statements. I hope you understand.
I'm not a game dev but my understanding of the way textures have looked last gen is all down to the speed of the physical HDD... So many PBO photo textures needed to be artistically 'modified' in order to make the file size smaller. RAW photo textures can be very large and there is no way they're getting a whole scene worth of them in whatever little bandwidth they had available in physical memory because asset streaming was impossible so entire loaded zones needed to fit into 8-12GB of RAM. Again, I'm not a developer but this is where I understand the bottleneck to be. Are you saying it's not and devs have been deliberately making their games look worse for the sake of pride or 'artistic' choice? You're saying someone like Naughty Dog deliberately held back the resolution and quality of the textures in The Last of Us 2 (as an example of where I feel a games realism level is affected greatly by the quality of the textures specifically)? I just don't think I understand what you're saying. So you said you worked on Halo in the past... Halo Infinite just came out and uses a different texture for the ground rubble on the X1/X1X compared to the XSX/S. Can you please explain more precisely what the devs are doing specifically? Also to me personally, the most incredible thing about the Matrix Awakens demo is the lighting and physics, the textures are still not perfect when you get close enough but the lighting is essentially ray-traced and that's definitely not possible on previous-gen without baking light in like TLOU2 and don't get me started on the previous-gen CPU trying to do those physics...
I've done some 3D sculpting and while I'm not fast, I know and have seen some people throw together a model sculpt in the time you're saying so I believe that. But my understanding of the months time to work on this Troll is the complete model for its use in this sequence, all the rigging, muscles, animation everything was prepared using ML. This is what took the month, they built the base model which yes probably took a day, then using ML they trained the animation system in a month. That's pretty outstanding considering I believe it would take longer than a month to fully ground up manually keyframe animate this whole sequence without the ML assistance. Any further instancing of this Troll in the game should have its dev time much reduced because of the time invested to train the ML animation system. I believe this kind of ML efficiency insertion into game development is absolutely critical to bring down the ever ballooning dev time for modern games.
Still, I do not properly understand what you're saying. Not having a go, but I assume English is not your first language? Using so many capitalised words affects your credibility because you're saying you're a skilled 3D artist yet your language skills do not seem to match what you're saying so I automatically assume that's the case but I'd still like to confirm as it will impact the credibility I give to your statements. It's always interesting to get perspectives from developers but I'm on the fence about the truth of your statements. I shouldn't need convincing but this is the internet of games and it wouldn't be the first time someone has artificially claimed to be an insider to try and ramp the importance of their statements. I hope you understand.
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Nhranaghacon02
Banned
On Your Question of me and My Origin, I'm American. My First Console Was An Amiga, Then A Commodore 64, My First Next Gen Console - A Nintendo N.E.S.
SSD As A Requirement due to Texture Size? No, SSD's aren't required to stream in Large Photo Reference Textures, besides that, most Textures can be sufficiently reduced in size and applied to assets
using highly ML optimized methods that fully today mitigates file size. I'm Saying, It has been very obvious for now over a decade in actuality, across many case examples (see below) - that most asset's rely on artistic expression opposed to photo reference and that is Tragic as it has held the Industry Back at the sake of what, finally delivering one Amazing "The Matrix Awakens" Demo?
We Have seen Photoreal Assets Demonstrated on Unreal Engine 4 on the GTX 680, released in 2011. Inferior to Last Gen Consoles.
And The Above Method Could Easily Be Expanded On.
You Could Build Larger scenes, without much foliage, and still achieve largely the same photoreal effect on the same type of Hardware. As Stated, this is running on a GTX 680, and a Demo like this could easily be expanded into to work for a Larger City setting. Now I'm not saying Last Gen Hardware Could Fully Conquer the Matrix Awakens Tech Demo, I'm saying Many elements of what is on Display - Could Easily had been accomplished Last Gen, merely by using genuine Photo Reference Materials.
So I Am 100% Implying, Yes the industry Has been Underselling Fully - What These Machines This Gen are capable of As Far As Plain/Vanilla Low Geometry Assets are Concerned, Artist's are not building Assets to scale, where you could have easily imposed photorealism by Maintaining and Building Assets at a 1-1 Scale mirroring The Reference Material.
Last Gen With many Plain Assets, Artists instead as standard all of Last Gen - Built Assets from the Ground Up at a less than 1-1 Scale Likeness Ratio For Most Assets... and Gamers/Consumers Have Lapt it up as Gospel - It's actually Extremely Sad From My Point Of Reference. It Proves How Helpless Consumers are when measured against the Standards Narrated By an Entire Industry. My Point, Consumers/Gamers - Start Demanding More if Graphics are Important to You.
Because the Industry as A Whole has been yanking your chain. And If my Example of A GTX 680, Achieving the Same level of Photorealism arguably, isn't enough - then you are in complete denial I must inform you.
Photoreal textures is a thing that is so last gen, so why were they hardly ever used last gen? When I Could Build A Comparable Smaller City, and Run it on a 680 with Photoreal Textures.
Because Unfortunately the People that really care - get spat upon by the Community while the Industry At Large, tells you what you should be impressed by.
And I Don't Sculpt Assets to use As Assets, but can Sculpt Too, I Build Models Vertex By Vertex, Tile by Tile, the Proper Way so that it is Already Heavily Optomized on Completion - And can still manage To Build such a Model as Long as the Reference Material Is Nailed Down in 3 1/2 Hours.
If I have to go off a description, and come up with it myself, based on many descriptions - increase the time spent on such an asset 3-10x depending on the scrutiny provided.
rickybooby87
Member
wait, was the trailer last year then pure CGI? Or are they talking about how it took 1 month to make the troll for what was shown then? That would be an awful late take on it if that’s the case.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Was there a troll in last years trailer?
The studio needed the asset back so they could keep working on the game.
They needed to decide what to show at the TGA this year and they decided the troll segment was what they would show, which put pressure on Ziva Dynamics to complete the asset in one month.
They likely(almost certainly) already had a "dumb" preproduction version of the troll already but they needed one with this fidelity for the demo they were gonna show.
Nhranaghacon02
Banned
I think the Original Asset is Leagues better as well, and mostly due to the fact that the spec map is less glaring.
And the fact that No One Else aside from me - see's this unless I point it out is also Glaring in a way.
Could it have Artistic Purpose? Melding into the Mountainside Certainly Could, this... however? Inexplainable, likely
an error in Art Design - Blatant Error. However, My Art Degree cites there are accounts of the imprints of demonic faces appearing in their victims flesh
and if I were A willing consumer, maybe I'd be willing to chalk this up to artistic licensing.
And the fact that No One Else aside from me - see's this unless I point it out is also Glaring in a way.
Could it have Artistic Purpose? Melding into the Mountainside Certainly Could, this... however? Inexplainable, likely
an error in Art Design - Blatant Error. However, My Art Degree cites there are accounts of the imprints of demonic faces appearing in their victims flesh
and if I were A willing consumer, maybe I'd be willing to chalk this up to artistic licensing.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
I think the Original Asset is Leagues better as well, and mostly due to the fact that the spec map is less glaring.
And the fact that No One Else aside from me - see's this unless I point it out is also Glaring in a way.
Could it have Artistic Purpose? Melding into the Mountainside Certainly Could, this... however? Inexplainable, likely
an error in Art Design - Blatant Error. However, My Art Degree cites there are accounts of the imprints of demonic faces appearing in their victims flesh
and if I were A willing consumer, maybe I'd be willing to chalk this up to artistic licensing.
You are strange strange individual.
Im surprised you even made it this long.
Seriously take the mods advise and seek professional help.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
I was talking about armchair devs in the first page, and somehow I summoned an actual one.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Now I remember. Its the same guy who said all game engines in the engines in the industry are modified versions of Unreal Engine and id Tech. He made a lot of posts about how Microsoft secretly copied Unreal Engine into Forzatech when they were working with Epic during 360 days, Sony's secret deals with Epic, Bethesda slowly replacing all the lines of code in their engine(as if it works like that) with id Tech and how the original Halo macworld demo was running on a modified id Tech. Ofcourse without a single evidence to back that up. Now he came back as a wannabe dev who worked in Halo 2 PC port.You are strange strange individual.
Im surprised you even made it this long.
Seriously take the mods advise and seek professional help.
rickybooby87
Member
Yeah, there was one in last years trailer, and it looked pretty good, leading me to believe that it was either CGI, or this story, is just a year late to the party (The story about how it took a month for artist to make this sweet looking monster).
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Ft: cringe!
Film-quality??
Troll???
Film-quality??
Troll???
Sethbacca
Member
At least we'd be done hearing about crunch in the industry? (Probably not...)Embark used AI to train the spider to walk, now Ninja Theory use AI to help animate this troll. How long till activision buys an AI company with hopes they can fire half their employees