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Senua’s Saga: Hellblade 2: It Took 1 Month for Artists to Create That 40ft Film-Quality Troll

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Yeah, there was one in last years trailer, and it looked pretty good, leading me to believe that it was either CGI, or this story, is just a year late to the party (The story about how it took a month for artist to make this sweet looking monster).

Oh you mean the 2019 reveal trailer from 2 years ago.

That giant thing in that trailer doesnt seem to be the same as this one, so either that was a preproduction version of what we got, a completely different character, or it didnt have any of the skeletal, muscle, skin and locomotion simulations running in that trailer.
Or as you said maybe Ziwa Dynamics couldnt talk about it till now.
Although looking at the two creatures and the previz that Ziwa Dynamics did its pretty clear they are completely different animals, Ziwa previz creature looks like the monster we got.
If they had done the simulations on the 2019 creature their previz would probably more closely resemble it.

Design changes over the last 2 years....not that uncommon.

It does seem like that scene from 2019 could occur earlier in the story than the 2021 trailer.
2019 monster isnt injured that trailer was them preparing for their first battle with it....which i guess they damaged it quite a bit.
2021 we see what happened when they go to fight the monster the second time.
Lwg4oTx.png




P.S Im pretty sure Ninja Theory and Epic themselves confirmed that the 2019 trailer was running inengine, it was around the time Epic was properly talking about games powered by Unreal Engine 5 are gonna be detail rich.
 
Am I the only one that wasn’t impressed? I loved the environments but the animations were really bad. And I just couldn’t understand why they were running from that thing, it didn’t look menacing at all.

so I watched the first one and then I understood. The first one did look frightening so it all made sense. Seems like they dropped the ball pretty hard on this one. And now you’re telling me they took over a month and nobody had the guts to say “hey guys, this looks fake”
 

iHaunter

Member
Concept art
Character Model
Skin Texture
Shaders
Character Rigging
Character sound/voice
Character Animation

This stuff can take weeks.
Also probably environment testing too. Making sure it doesn't glitch through terrain. It's not very easy.
 

Deft Beck

Member
These Hellblade threads are filled with people who obviously didn’t play the first. I think they assume it’s more like GOW and less 75% visualization puzzles that it actually is. It’s a cinematic experience that uses sound and atmosphere to tell a story. It’s more akin to a plagues tale than GOW. Slow walking from beat to beat is what the game is…and it was an amazing experience for it.

I found Hellblade to be incredibly boring and quit playing when it was obvious that the game was lying to you about permadeath for dramatic effect.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
These Hellblade threads are filled with people who obviously didn’t play the first. I think they assume it’s more like GOW and less 75% visualization puzzles that it actually is. It’s a cinematic experience that uses sound and atmosphere to tell a story. It’s more akin to a plagues tale than GOW. Slow walking from beat to beat is what the game is…and it was an amazing experience for it.

I hate how some people have no idea what the first Hellblade game is, but feel the need to respond to every Hellblade 2 topic.
 

CamHostage

Member
These Hellblade threads are filled with people who obviously didn’t play the first. I think they assume it’s more like GOW and less 75% visualization puzzles that it actually is.

True. In respect to the confused responses though, the first game was called "AAA indie", something with big production values but indie design sensibilities. It was focused in what it was trying to do, and it was (mostly) clear in the marketing that its production values were high but its play systems were in service of an intimate experience. (It was also priced $30, which was an indicator to most people that this wasn't the next GoW or AC or whatnot.)

The marketing for Hellblade 2 has been more nebulous in this early run. It was the first game ever revealed for Xbox next-gen hardware. It has been featured in 3 mass-market showcases, twice at TGAs and once in Microsoft's E3 event. It is produced by Microsoft, and for a time was the featured game (alongside Halo) of reasons to look forward to purchasing a new Xbox. It's clearly bigger in scope than the original, with an introductory trailer showing grand landscapes over flyovers from sea to land and through the world of an entire culture... But then, it's also the sequel to an intimate game about mental struggle. It's from a company that has begun listing their creations as "art" rather than games or even interactive entertainment. "We pride ourselves on hiring the best talent in the industry to craft life changing art with game changing tech", says the Ninja Theory company bio. When it announced Hellblade 2, it talked about the game as being alongside Project Mara and The Insight Project, all three of which are part of the team's exploration into "mental terror", and "treating mental suffering and encouraging mental wellbeing". This is all very different from the usual promotion of a game, where usually you see promotional info listing out X number of levels and Y number of combat moves and whatever else is usually on the bulletpoint list of games these days. Ninja Theory has said that Hellblade 2 is bigger than the first game, but what exactly that means is a point of confusion between those who loved the small, personal story of the first game versus those coming fresh at the second game's trailer and seeing a new Xbox cornerstone epic, and there's no clarity yet as to which of those two camps is more right about what they're looking forward to...



I agree, people should temper their expectations and not start imagining something like DMC or Enslaved, with deep/varied combat and a grand adventure story to enjoy, in the sequel to of all things Hellblade. MS may be allowing Ninja Theory to do another small-scale "AAA Indie", even though it's an internal project and a name-brand game now. However, it's bound to be a bigger canvas this time (just the two videos we've seen so far show something different and wider, with this small band of NPCs alongside Senua and an encounter that uses custom weapons beyond her sword.) And the spotlight and pressure is on this project to be compelling for a much larger audience than before. I describing the project, creative chief Tameem Antoniades says, "We didn't want to do a straight sequel, we wanted to do something extra-special, and so, we're making our lives as difficult as possible in that pursuit."

So we can say what Hellblade 2 should be based on the fans and the first game, and we can say what Hellblade 2 looks to be from what we've seen and been told so far, but I would say we don't yet have a picture of what Hellblade 2 will NOT be.
 
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Dr Bass

Member
These Hellblade threads are filled with people who obviously didn’t play the first. I think they assume it’s more like GOW and less 75% visualization puzzles that it actually is. It’s a cinematic experience that uses sound and atmosphere to tell a story. It’s more akin to a plagues tale than GOW. Slow walking from beat to beat is what the game is…and it was an amazing experience for it.
So, I am someone who said the latest trailer reminded me of the new God of War, and that largely came down to the camera, fighting big bosses, etc.

I also played the first Hellblade on the PS4. And I thought it was a good visual showcase but that as a game, it simply wasn't very good.

I am only assuming when I make these comments that Ninja Theory is going to go in a slightly different direction with part 2, almost out of necessity. After MS purchased them, some people elevated their status to practical world beaters in terms of their ability to execute on a AAA style game. Maybe they don't feel that pressure now, but their work is certainly being rolled out as a showcase for the platform at this point. That doesn't really gel with what Hellblade 1 was or accomplished. At all.

Don't assume that because some people are comparing it to other games, that they didn't play the first. Maybe they simply did play the first and see the need for the series to evolve way past what they did in order to be successful with part 2.
 

Gavon West

Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
Am I the only one that wasn’t impressed? I loved the environments but the animations were really bad. And I just couldn’t understand why they were running from that thing, it didn’t look menacing at all.

so I watched the first one and then I understood. The first one did look frightening so it all made sense. Seems like they dropped the ball pretty hard on this one. And now you’re telling me they took over a month and nobody had the guts to say “hey guys, this looks fake”
I just can't take this post seriously. Can't put my finger on it though. Such a bizarre sensation. I thought at first it was the name, but, nah ...that couldn't be it. 🤔
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Seems long to my non developer brain. They must have hired dudes working on Star Citizen.
How long does your non developer brain think it should take 3 people to:
Make and simulate bone, muscle and skin simulation models.
3D Model/Sculpt a previz 40ft troll to apply these simulation to.
Train an AI to learn from all those simulations which weighed in at 12GB of data.
Then optimize that AI to do and apply what its learn to the troll in realtime.
Get said troll to actual work in a game engine at runtime.

P.S
How long do you think it takes to make a high quality asset, texture it, rig it, and animate it sans all the simulations?
 

sinnergy

Member
How long does your non developer brain think it should take 3 people to:
Make and simulate bone, muscle and skin simulation models.
3D Model/Sculpt a previz 40ft troll to apply these simulation to.
Train an AI to learn from all those simulations which weighed in at 12GB of data.
Then optimize that AI to do and apply what its learn to the troll in realtime.
Get said troll to actual work in a game engine at runtime.

P.S
How long do you think it takes to make a high quality asset, texture it, rig it, and animate it sans all the simulations?
They have no idea 😆

My gut feeling says , if your work 40 hours , couple of months . I did offline 3D on a car for a big semi conductor company , and some other 3D projects .. those took months , 2 people .
 

kikii

Member
im kinda amused when cutscenes are "gameplay" :p not trying to war or anything but for me it looks like one =)
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
im kinda amused when cutscenes are "gameplay" :p not trying to war or anything but for me it looks like one =)

It all depends on your project goals. If it does what it needs to do, and looks and runs great while doing it. Job done, and in fine style.

Some situations are just more amenable than others to really blowing out on the visuals. if, for instance, you have almost complete control over everything happening in the scene you can really push to the limit because you know where you can do strategic nips-and-tucks without anyone being aware that you are doing them. And those resources you smartly saved can be reallocated to take everything to the next level.

Its all about the grand illusion. I hate the way that tech breakdowns and stuff sometimes reduce the work down to simply exploiting hardware and software capabilities, because to me that really misses the point of the exercise. A game is not primarily intended as a benchmarking tool, its an artistic presentation.
 

kikii

Member
It all depends on your project goals. If it does what it needs to do, and looks and runs great while doing it. Job done, and in fine style.

Some situations are just more amenable than others to really blowing out on the visuals. if, for instance, you have almost complete control over everything happening in the scene you can really push to the limit because you know where you can do strategic nips-and-tucks without anyone being aware that you are doing them. And those resources you smartly saved can be reallocated to take everything to the next level.

Its all about the grand illusion. I hate the way that tech breakdowns and stuff sometimes reduce the work down to simply exploiting hardware and software capabilities, because to me that really misses the point of the exercise. A game is not primarily intended as a benchmarking tool, its an artistic presentation.
well if gameplay looks that messy like in that vid ill pass ^^
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
They have no idea 😆

My gut feeling says , if your work 40 hours , couple of months . I did offline 3D on a car for a big semi conductor company , and some other 3D projects .. those took months , 2 people .
Its easy they say............a days work they say.
 
Resident Evil 4 and MGSV are all that you've mentioned, but you know that else?

They're games first and foremost.
They're not trying to pretend they're movies and sacrificing interactivity for the sake of "muh emotions" and "muh art".

They respect the medium and they're proud of being a part of the medium, and not ashamed of it.
Making a game that has mundane interactivity for the sake of telling a story just exposes how these developers hate video games, and instead want to do something else entirely.

And here I though Shadow of the Colossus was enough to prove how you can perfectly blend storytelling and gameplay without having to sacrifice one over the other.
But no, some people in the industry just want to pretend they're in Hollywood and want to sell their interactive B movie as a "game"
Not everything is your way...
 
They're games first and foremost.
They're not trying to pretend they're movies and sacrificing interactivity for the sake of "muh emotions" and "muh art".

They respect the medium and they're proud of being a part of the medium, and not ashamed of it.
Making a game that has mundane interactivity for the sake of telling a story just exposes how these developers hate video games, and instead want to do something else entirely.

Your point?
That toxic take above is the problem...some games wont be THE WAY YOU LIKE.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
What's toxic about it?
You are gatekeeping what makes a game a game.
And pretty much all gatekeepers are toxic.

Visual Novels barely have any "real" gameplay....they are still games.
Idlers literally play themselves.....they are still games.
Who are you to say game x isnt respecting the medium?

Edith Finch, Gone Home, Dear Esther, Fire Watch are all games that basically just tell you a story without much "gameplay".....originators of the term "walking simulator" .....yet they were all stars of their release years because there is no "this is a videogame" template, and attempting to make such a template is toxic and holds back the medium unnecessarily.
Its not like "walking simulators" somehow stop your favorite genre of games from being made.
 

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
When i played the first game this constant chatter in my “head” was fucking annoying.

So skip
 

GymWolf

Member
Am I the only one that wasn’t impressed? I loved the environments but the animations were really bad. And I just couldn’t understand why they were running from that thing, it didn’t look menacing at all.

so I watched the first one and then I understood. The first one did look frightening so it all made sense. Seems like they dropped the ball pretty hard on this one. And now you’re telling me they took over a month and nobody had the guts to say “hey guys, this looks fake”
An almost invincible giant that can smash or eat you alive doens't look menacing at all?

Are you Bear grylls's son by any chance? :lollipop_grinning_sweat:
 
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Orta

Banned
Am I the only one that wasn’t impressed? I loved the environments but the animations were really bad. And I just couldn’t understand why they were running from that thing, it didn’t look menacing at all.

so I watched the first one and then I understood. The first one did look frightening so it all made sense. Seems like they dropped the ball pretty hard on this one. And now you’re telling me they took over a month and nobody had the guts to say “hey guys, this looks fake”

Strangely enough you weren't. Quite a few people on here are VERY unimpressed. They all seem to have one thing in common too 'Playstationfan'.

Wonder what it is?
 

Omegaking

Banned
I love me a visual a feast. hopefully this is the game that makes me pull the trigger on an XSX. Given what we have seen from last-gen games, I see no reason why this can't be real-time or even surpassed before release. Just look at GoW. Did you guys not play Ratchet and Demon Souls? they are windows lunch games. and the XSX is supposed to be the brute of the two consols
 
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An almost invincible giant that can smash or eat you alive doens't look menacing at all?

Are you Bear grylls's son by any chance? :lollipop_grinning_sweat:
Yeah. If you look at the video the giant isn’t even running after them. It seems the characters are reacting to something that isn’t there. If you look at the original video it all makes sense.
 

GymWolf

Member
Yeah. If you look at the video the giant isn’t even running after them. It seems the characters are reacting to something that isn’t there. If you look at the original video it all makes sense.
I mean, even when crawling the giant is pretty unsettling...

Do you have a link of the original video?
 

oldergamer

Member
Probably would have taken Naughty Dog a week, if that.
That's a ridiculous statement. The reason it took a month is due to the animations being procedural and not hand animated. Anyone that knows a little about machine learning, would know training something via that process, like how to move and animate is a huge undertaking. Its takes a lot of processing power and time. Even deepfakes can take 1 - 2 weeks, and that is only to swap a face. Sorry but no, naughty dog would not have been able to do it in a week.
 
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Ozriel

M$FT
Am I the only one that wasn’t impressed? I loved the environments but the animations were really bad. And I just couldn’t understand why they were running from that thing, it didn’t look menacing at all.

so I watched the first one and then I understood. The first one did look frightening so it all made sense. Seems like they dropped the ball pretty hard on this one. And now you’re telling me they took over a month and nobody had the guts to say “hey guys, this looks fake”

That thing didn’t look menacing to you? you don’t understand why they’d be running from a 40ft troll?

Probably would have taken Naughty Dog a week, if that.

Speaking of trolls…
 

hussar16

Member
"Gameplay"

Seriously, making gameplay and cutscenes seamless was something that was probably impressive back when Metal Gear Solid 4 was announced.
This trailer just makes the project look like a movie with "on rails" interactive segments inbetween.
And that's fine to me.ive had more memorable moments from cutscense or interactive story moments then most gameplays
 

93xfan

Banned
As someone who knows absolutely nothing about game development, that seems….a bit too long for what I’m sure is a highly skilled team? I’m sure they were simultaneously working on multiple other things, though, so to say this one took the entire month is probably stretching the truth a bit. Those of you more in the know about such things feel free to skewer me!
Anyone here who claims to be “more in the know” is a troll
 
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