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[Fat Frog]

Dream partnership

Yu Suzuki supervises VF X/OutRun 3 for Sega.

Sega of Japan produces Dragon Engine Shenmue 1,2,3 remake and Shenmue 4/5 with Suzuki.


SEGA_2012
I didn't say Suzuki was overhyped at all.
He is a great creator but working with Lakshya something is not the same than leading AM2, Amusement Vision (RGG Studio) especially when you have Nagoshi. Suzuki's weakness was team management, Nagoshi was there for that. He was a top tiers in that regard...

Even Nintendo called Nagoshi and asked:

HOW THE FUCK DID YOU MAKE F ZERO GX WITH THAT BUDGET AND TIME FRAME !?!

I'm pretty sure RGG Studio and AM2 would have done a better (and still respectful) Shenmue 3 in one year. (with Suzuki and... Nagoshi)

 

[Team Andromeda]

"Toshiro Nagoshi was also very integral into making Shenmue come to life. Although the credits only tell us he was a supervisor; he has revealed the development story. He was called by the CEO at the time to get the game finished, and as a result, he had to serve as producer and director on the final months of development. He recognized that as one of the turning points in his career."

Courtesy : Sega Retro

Shenmue 1 was great.
Yakuza games are great.

Shenmue 3 = Lakshya without Nagoshi and Sega Studios. Cannot reach the same level...

Nonsense.

Shenmue 1 and 2 was done with a staff over 200 people with a budget of $70 million and that's for a Saturn/DC project in the late 90s, when people hardly knew played or saw what open world or sandbox games were meant to be..
Shenmue 3 was done on a Kickstarter budget and a team of less than 50 people for the last gen. Shenmue 3 was done on the cheap and it showed, but people weren't meant to mind, it was all about a continuation of story *rollseyes*

Also, Masayoshi Kikuchi is one who deserves the real credit for Yakuza series development and making it a good game to play and what the series as become. The best director and produce SEGA Japan got.
Though credit goes to Nagoshi for the idea of making a game about Japan's underbelly

 

[JCK75]

I bought a Dreamcast just for Shenmue, and it was one of the most boring and overrated games I've ever experienced in my life.
Bad writing, bad acting and bad gameplay.

Nothing happened except people who bought a console with the worst controller ever made had to convince themselves it was worth it.
(Though I got my monies worth with lightgun shooters which were a good time and bless them for bringing that back just before the LCD revolution came along to kill it)

 

[Alan Wake]

Imagine someone saying this about Miyamoto. Because Yu Suzuki is on the same level.

Was.

 

[Alan Wake]

I bought a Dreamcast just for Shenmue, and it was one of the most boring and overrated games I've ever experienced in my life.
Bad writing, bad acting and bad gameplay.

Nothing happened except people who bought a console with the worst controller ever made had to convince themselves it was worth it.
(Though I got my monies worth with lightgun shooters which were a good time and bless them for bringing that back just before the LCD revolution came along to kill it)

There were lots of us who really liked Shenmue, you know.

 

[Fat Frog]

Nonsense.

Shenmue 1 and 2 was done with a staff over 200 people with a budget of $70 million and that's for a Saturn/DC project in the late 90s, when people hardly knew played or saw what open world or sandbox games were meant to be..
Shenmue 3 was done on a Kickstarter budget and a team of less than 50 people for the last gen. Shenmue 3 was done on the cheap and it showed, but people weren't meant to mind, it was all about a continuation of story *rollseyes*

Also, Masayoshi Kikuchi is one who deserves the real credit for Yakuza series development and making it a good game to play and what the series as become. The best director and produce SEGA Japan got.
Though credit goes to Nagoshi for the idea of making a game about Japan's underbelly

What Sega retro said is not a nonsense at all. (they just kinda quoted Nagoshi)

Plus, what you said is not incompatible.
Yeah, Suzuki, YS, Lakshya did a decent job for the budget.
Yes Kikuchi is a key element.
But he also remains at Sega. Indeed Suzuki needs Sega of Japan to really deliver.
It's not also a budget issue but decades of experience from Sega of Japan...highly missing in Shenmue 3.

 

[NullZ3r0]

Time overcame the game. The gameplay mechanics and overall nature of the game would have been fresh, new, innovative and exciting in 2001, but was woefully outdated in 2020. I'm as big a Shenmue fan as there ever was and even I cringed a little bit at the game. Time has passed it by. Nostalgia alone can't save it.

 

[Team Andromeda]

What Sega retro said is not a nonsense at all. (they just kinda quoted Nagoshi)

Plus, what you said is not incompatible.
Yeah, Suzuki, YS, Lakshya did a decent job for the budget.
Yes Kikuchi is a key element.
But he also remains at Sega. Indeed Suzuki needs Sega of Japan to really deliver.
It's not also a budget issue but decades of experience from Sega of Japan...highly missing in Shenmue 3.

Please. SEGA Retro, while an amazing site is full of holes and Nagoshi-san can be full of bullshit at times and if he had two pairs of lips, would kiss himself to death.
Yu Suzuki did more than anyone to put SEGA on the map and make the company it was. OutRun, Power Drift, AB II, Hang On made SEGA millions and a total force put them on the map

And of course, it's a budget and manpower issue. Shenmue was about modelling ever little detail to the absolute perfection of what was possible on the Hardware, even having a team of staff working weeks on a telephone cord that only features a tiny amount in the game That takes time and massive amounts of staff power. If Yu Suzuki had been working with a team of 100 staff and a budget of 25$ to $30 million we would have got the Shenmue 3 that 'fans' of the series wanted

The two main things Yakuza does better is the story and the script.

 

[ROMhack]

What happened? They made another Shenmue game, which everyone thought they wanted because they hadn't actually played a Shenmue game for nearly two decades.

Fair point. I only played Shenmue when the remastered version came out and thought it was okay. I could certainly see the nostalgia.

I like Shenmue 1 most because it has this quaint charm. Being set in a small town makes the game what it is and reminds me of some 90s drama movies. Shenmue 2 is a little lopsided by comparison but Kowloon is a cool setting and still quite unique. The gameplay starts to show some flaws as the fighting is ass and so are the QTEs.

Shenmue 3, however, is frankly an abomination. It's like a pisstake of everything about the original games that's somehow slower, has a much more boring ass setting, crap characters and glaringly awful padding to hide the non-existent story. It's very rare for me to hate games but I'd argue this one should have never been released.

Also obligatory mention that Yakuza isn't that similar to Shenmue. Yakuza is candy-flavoured bubblegum whereas Shenmue is more like peppermint Wrigley's.

 

[Fat Frog]

Please. (...)Nagoshi-san can be full of bullshit at times and if he had two pairs of lips, would kiss himself to death.

Yu Suzuki did more than anyone to put SEGA on the map (...)

The two main things Yakuza does better is the story and the script.

What's wrong with you, pawl ?

What kind of Versus are you selling us ? (Suzuki/Nagoshi/Shenmue/Yakuza)


I don't care... Both are great and Nagoshi told recently Suzuki was a genius. So...

I talked about RGG, AM2, Sega Studios and not only Nagoshi...

 

[Team Andromeda]

I don't care... Both are great and Nagoshi told recently Suzuki was a genius. So...

Funny that, There's a reason why Nagoshi-san asked and looked to leave AM#2

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

What an awful hot take

How so? gameplay was trash, the story telling was trash, Shenmue III didnt need to happen an gave nothing worth of a story

As someone who hated Shenmue III even after putting over $600 down towards the Kickstarter I have to say it was utter trash, But your post is even more trash... What a fucking awful take.

So you agree with me lmao

Worst post in NeoGAF history.
Easily.

Why? Because Shenmue game mechanics have aged poorly, as well as the fighting, the grinding for money etc

 

[Fat Frog]

Funny that, There's a reason why Nagoshi-san asked and looked to leave AM#2

What's your point ?

 

[SkylineRKR]

Shenmue 3 shows nothing about the quality of 1 and 2.

Shenmue is an acquired taste. You either find it too slow or don't care for its world building, but for games developed in 1999 Shenmue 1 and 2 were really cutting edge. And the combat took skill. The moves made sense, a double kick was something like f,f, kk. It wasn't about training to get OP, you could make your moves more effective but you could style your opponents without training and you could in fact win the fight you're supposed to lose in the arcade if you used parries and throws correctly.

Shenmue 3 has nothing to do with skill. nothing. Its about grinding your stats so that enemies can't one shot you and you can one shot them. There is no real middle ground. Its more RPG like in this regard but the controls are the worst ever. dial a combos for regular moves, wtf? And like a 2 second delay on top of it.

I don't think Shenmue 1 and 2's combat aged poorly. I'd like to try them at 60fps. I still loved it in the HD remasters. The spacing, the parries, the counterstrikes. I think its a notch above Yakuza but it might be me. For 20 yrs old, it still felt like deep combat. There are a ton of moves, he has enough for a 1 on 1 fighter. You can punch your way to victory, but some fights will force you to adapt.

Shenmue 3 also doesn't add any story, its playing out the same sequence twice (get beaten, grind for special move, win). Its much more poorly paced than even Shenmue 1. Shenmue 3 is a piece of trash that buried this franchise.

 

[Brigandier]

So you agree with me lmao

I accept Shenmue 3 is a bad game but to say his games are not as good as people remember.... Stfu. No I clearly don't agree with you.

 

[lachesis]

I do think Suzuki's storytelling is quite weak, if not too primitive. His way of telling story no longer intrigues vast majority of people... Very 70s and 80s feel to it.
Then again, within that simple storyline - it made the player to live thru like no other RPGs with realistic 3d environment... and that was part of the charm. However, those days are long gone... like 20 years now.

Sure, I platinummed the Shenmue 3, including DLCs and all. I honestly enjoyed the game on the 1st run. 2nd run was okay too, as I enjoyed some of the stuff that I missed out and the details and all. But by 3rd run, doing DLCs and all - it felt like chore, because of weak storytelling that's so transparently flat and outdated. I could say previous ones had the same issue, and vast majority of many games are the same - but Shenmue 1 and 2 at least had some depth I could dig into more than Shenmue 3.

I do think the story really needs a good writer and some meaningful character development. Story focuses around "friendship" - but unlike previous 2 games, the friendship really didn't feel anything at all in Shenmue 3. How am I supposed to feel attached, why - by them just being there and made couple of conversations? I felt rather "attached" to Goro and Maya in Shenmue 1. I felt rather attached to Ren, Joy and Fangmei in Shenmue 2. Yet I wasn't able to develop any attachment to Shenhua or Shrine maid or whatnot. Even Ren, felt pretty flat in this game.

This is one of the reason that I'm actually looking forward to the Anime version, sadly. If someone else's directing it and writing story based on Yu's barebone... I hope they can make things a bit more interesting.. even though I'm not really expecting it will cover as far as Shenmue3 storyline, sadly.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I do think Suzuki's storytelling is quite weak, if not too primitive. His way of telling story no longer intrigues vast majority of people... Very 70s and 80s feel to it.
Then again, within that simple storyline - it made the player to live thru like no other RPGs with realistic 3d environment... and that was part of the charm. However, those days are long gone... like 20 years now.

Sure, I platinummed the Shenmue 3, including DLCs and all. I honestly enjoyed the game on the 1st run. 2nd run was okay too, as I enjoyed some of the stuff that I missed out and the details and all. But by 3rd run, doing DLCs and all - it felt like chore, because of weak storytelling that's so transparently flat and outdated. I could say previous ones had the same issue, and vast majority of many games are the same - but Shenmue 1 and 2 at least had some depth I could dig into more than Shenmue 3.

I do think the story really needs a good writer and some meaningful character development. Story focuses around "friendship" - but unlike previous 2 games, the friendship really didn't feel anything at all in Shenmue 3. How am I supposed to feel attached, why - by them just being there and made couple of conversations? I felt rather "attached" to Goro and Maya in Shenmue 1. I felt rather attached to Ren, Joy and Fangmei in Shenmue 2. Yet I wasn't able to develop any attachment to Shenhua or Shrine maid or whatnot. Even Ren, felt pretty flat in this game.

This is one of the reason that I'm actually looking forward to the Anime version, sadly. If someone else's directing it and writing story based on Yu's barebone... I hope they can make things a bit more interesting.. even though I'm not really expecting it will cover as far as Shenmue3 storyline, sadly.

The guy's in his 60s, so not surprising his games in modern times don't hold up.

He's a legend in the 80s and 90s when arcade machines and 16-bit systems ruled, but it's totally different now. His best games are arcade games, which in modern day would be considered $10 indie games.

 

[Fat Frog]

Relax, dudes

 

[Alan Wake]

This is one of the reason that I'm actually looking forward to the Anime version, sadly. If someone else's directing it and writing story based on Yu's barebone... I hope they can make things a bit more interesting.. even though I'm not really expecting it will cover as far as Shenmue3 storyline, sadly.

It's supposed to cover the story in the first game and a bit of the second, as far as I've heard.

 

[Aenima]

Enjoyed it alot as a fan of the original ones, its a faithfull Shenmue game. Combat could use some more polishing.

I just think the pure Shenmue formula, which is almost like a real martial artist simulator, is too niche when games inspired by Shenmue, like Yakuza, are doing it in a more fun way. I wish there was a bigger audience for Shenmue games, but at this point i dont even expect a Shenmue 4 to come out. If it comes out, im there day 1. Not gonna support another kickstarter campaingn though.

 

[Burger]

I'm sorry but some 25 minute video deep diving into the history of Shenmue and navel gazing into the issues of Shenmue 3 and trying to make sense of it all is pointless.

Literally everything you need to know about this game can be gleaned from this gem:

 

[Team Andromeda]

What's your point ?

Nagoashi-san isn't quite the SEGA hero he's made out to be, but that's going OT

My main point is how unfair you and other's treat Shenmue 3; I remember all the calls for a Shenmue 3 and how people didn't if it used the Dreamcast game engine to continue the story. Shenmue was done on the cheap and with a handful of staff and its showed. It was never going to deliver the epic Shenmue experience that Dreamcast users enjoyed, where everything in Shenmue was about taking things to the extreme.

It's like comparing Manchester City budgets and squad to Bolton Wanderers.

 

[Hitchyhero]

I backed this game and was really excited but when I received the game I was very busy in my life. I got the PS4 version but now I've sold my Ps4 and got a series X. The game is still on my shelf though.

I could still play it on my PC I guess. The gameplay looks fine (if your happy with the first two games) but knowing that the story hasn't progressed much is a complete turn off and makes me want to avoid playing it.

Seems like fans are in the exact same position as before, except worse. I don't see Shenmue 4 getting support or funding that shenmue III got so I doubt it will see the light of day. Its left on yet another cliffhanger but with less momentum then what shenmue 2 had.

 

[TwiztidElf]

Why? Because Shenmue game mechanics have aged poorly, as well as the fighting, the grinding for money etc

Suzuki didn't just make Shenmu games.
He made the greatest game ever made. And at least one other that's up there.
Sit down kid.

 

[Fat Frog]

Nagoashi-san isn't quite the SEGA hero he's made out to be, but that's going OT

My main point is how unfair you and other's treat Shenmue 3; I remember all the calls for a Shenmue 3 and how people didn't if it used the Dreamcast game engine to continue the story. Shenmue was done on the cheap and with a handful of staff and its showed. It was never going to deliver the epic Shenmue experience that Dreamcast users enjoyed, where everything in Shenmue was about taking things to the extreme.

It's like comparing Manchester City budgets and squad to Bolton Wanderers.

Well, Suzuki, Nagoshi were neither heroes nor utter trash.

Plus, i don't agree with people pissing on recent Suzuki games. We all have different opinions... (please don't treat us as a single block)

I was more targetting Lakshya without insulting them. I said they did a decent job, They just cannot reach Sega Studios decades of experience (please don't focus on Yakuza only, i also talked about AM2)

Finally, yeah, they did a decent job for the budget but it's not either a David vs Goliath comparison.

The 70 millions VS 7 millions budget was theorical.

The real datas are more than 47 millions for Shenmue 1 + a part of Shenmue 2 so maybe 40 millions for the first episode (i'm not unfair)

For Shenmue 3, the latest datas are 20 millions (Deeps Silver + EGS deal ?)

So yes, it's still far less but not really a tiny indy budget anymore. I still think they lack good team managers for instance.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Well, Suzuki, Nagoshi were neither heroes nor utter trash.

Plus, i don't agree with people pissing on recent Suzuki games. We all have different opinions... (please don't treat us as a single block)

I was more targetting Lakshya without insulting them. I said they did a decent job, They just cannot reach Sega Studios decades of experience (please don't focus on Yakuza only, i also talked about AM2)

Finally, yeah, they did a decent job for the budget but it's not either a David vs Goliath comparison.

The 70 millions VS 7 millions budget was theorical.

The real datas are more than 47 millions for Shenmue 1 + a part of Shenmue 2 so maybe 40 millions for the first episode (i'm not unfair)

For Shenmue 3, the latest datas are 20 millions (Deeps Silver + EGS deal ?)

So yes, it's still far less but not really a tiny indy budget anymore. I still think they lack good team managers for instance.

The $70 million budget is true. Yu Suzuki just tried to play it down when looking for funding for 3rd game, everyone could see that.

It's not just about experience; all the staff that worked on Shenmue 3 were Ex SEGA veterans and had years on experience. You can not compare a game with a massive budget for the time, never mind now and mad with over 200 staff working on it full time. To a game made with a Kickstarter budget and a staff of less than 50 and expect Shenmue III to do for the PS4, what Shenmue did on the DC in 1999.

 

[Fat Frog]

The $70 million budget is true. Yu Suzuki just tried to play it down when looking for funding for 3rd game, everyone could see that.

It's not just about experience; all the staff that worked on Shenmue 3 were Ex SEGA veterans and had years on experience. You can not compare a game with a massive budget for the time, never mind now and mad with over 200 staff working on it full time. To a game made with a Kickstarter budget and a staff of less than 50 and expect Shenmue III to do for the PS4, what Shenmue did on the DC in 1999.

All ? Lakshya are not Sega veterans... The hired Korean fan Nocon Kid was not a Sega Veteran. The core team were from Sega but that wasn't enough because a load of the original team is still working at Sega...


First Nagoshi was self sucking his penis by exaggerating his role in Shenmue 1 ? Now, Suzuki is downplaying the 70 millions budget ? So everyone is always lying in your world ?

I'll give you my opinion of the 70 millions budget as a day one buyer of the Japanese version of Shenmue 1:


The 70 millions budget cannot be a reality.
As you can see in the first Shenmue reveal, 80% of the sequences are from Shenmue 2 which means Shenmue 1 didn't cost 70 millions. (a part has been used for Shenmue 2 even if it was for tiny assets which i doubt. We can see tons of building from Kowloon, areas from aberdeen, areas from Guilin... it costs money)


In my opinion, Suzuki as a top creative (not a top manager) was running out of time, unable to focus on the first chapter and be ready for winter 1999.

That's the moment Nagoshi became crucial to release a small sand box, but polished without the other chapters in China. (Suzuki wanting to include more and more as the passionnate man he is)


Again, it's not a straight comparison between Shenmue 1 and 3. Some did, I didn't...

I repeat myself, YS, Lakshya did a decent Job for what they had.

But that's not an indy production anymore: 20 millions is NOT a tiny budget, it's almost like Shenmue Online and Shenmue 1 didn't cost 70 millions ( Shenmue 2 early builds were neither free nor 100 millions dollars for the entire game if we take an other extreme. The 70 or 47 millions budget was for Shenmue 1 and at least a part of Shenmue 2, all the areas, scenes, characters we see in the world premier trailer)

 

[Team Andromeda]

All ? Lakshya are not Sega veterans... The hired Korean fan Nocon Kid was not a Sega Veteran. The core team were from Sega but that wasn't enough because a load of the original team is still working at Sega...


First Nagoshi was self sucking his penis by exaggerating his role in Shenmue 1 ? Now, Suzuki is downplaying the 70 millions budget ? So everyone is always lying in your world ?

I'll give you my opinion of the 70 millions budget as a day one buyer of the Japanese version of Shenmue 1:


The 70 millions budget cannot be a reality.
As you can see in the first Shenmue reveal, 80% of the sequences are from Shenmue 2 which means Shenmue 1 didn't cost 70 millions. (a part has been used for Shenmue 2 even if it was for tiny assets which i doubt. We can see tons of building from Kowloon, areas from aberdeen, areas from Guilin... it costs money)


In my opinion, Suzuki as a top creative (not a top manager) was running out of time, unable to focus on the first chapter and be ready for winter 1999.

That's the moment Nagoshi became crucial to release a small sand box, but polished without the other chapters in China. (Suzuki wanting to include more and more as the passionnate man he is)


Again, it's not a straight comparison between Shenmue 1 and 3. Some did, I didn't...

I repeat myself, YS, Lakshya did a decent Job for what they had.

But that's not an indy production anymore: 20 millions is NOT a tiny budget, it's almost like Shenmue Online and Shenmue 1 didn't cost 70 millions ( Shenmue 2 early builds were neither free nor 100 millions dollars for the entire game if we take an other extreme. The 70 or 47 millions budget was for Shenmue 1 and at least a part of Shenmue 2, all the areas, scenes, characters we see in the world premier trailer)

Oh Please A lot of the Y Net team were not only SEGA veterans but also Shenmue veterans. The $70 million budget was and is real. It was in development for over 5 years mostly with a team of over 200 people,
The music score had like 2 main composers and used a 100 piece orchestra every single line of dialogue was spoken.That did not come cheap; Just look at FF 7 that was a PS 32 bit RPG game and cost over $40 million dollars to develop

Your point about Yakuza is a little unfair... That was in development for over 4 years and cost SEGA over $25 million dollars to develop and yet it sold worse than the 1st Shenmue on the DC
What really killed Shenmue was it was on the DC (a dead platform for most of the world) and the sequel sold like crap, whereas Yakuza 2 actually sold better than the 1st Yakuza.

 

[VGEsoterica]

Shenmue III was not a good game but I still enjoyed more Shenmue

 

[Fat Frog]

Oh Please A lot of the Y Net team were not only SEGA veterans but also Shenmue veterans. The $70 million budget was and is real. It was in development for over 5 years mostly with a team of over 200 people,
The music score had like 2 main composers and used a 100 piece orchestra every single line of dialogue was spoken.That did not come cheap; Just look at FF 7 that was a PS 32 bit RPG game and cost over $40 million dollars to develop

Your point about Yakuza is a little unfair... That was in development for over 4 years and cost SEGA over $25 million dollars to develop and yet it sold worse than the 1st Shenmue on the DC
What really killed Shenmue was it was on the DC (a dead platform for most of the world) and the sequel sold like crap, whereas Yakuza 2 actually sold better than the 1st Yakuza.

I know Shenmue was expensive, thanks. But doesn't change the fact elements of Shenmue 2 were produced with the 70/47 millions budget... My video is proving it.


What point about Yakuza ? I talked about Shenmue online...
Quote an old post of mine, please, we had long discussion, it's hard to remember.

Or maybe you're mixing up with someone else's quote ?

 

[RAIDEN1]

What happened was they took a quarter of a century just to get part 3 off the ground, and after the stellar efforts from the previous entry, the heat was on to take the game to another level....but in the end it turned out being not even as good as the Yakuza games..

 

[Fat Frog]

What happened was they took a quarter of a century

Who ? Sega ? YS ? Deep Silver ?

It's not a monolith entity who waited and then produced the game...

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

I accept Shenmue 3 is a bad game but to say his games are not as good as people remember.... Stfu. No I clearly don't agree with you.

They arent, nostalgia is a hell of a thing and his game design from many years ago doesnt not transfer to the current shenmue

 

[Hudo]

I can see why people compare Shenmue and Yakuza. But for me, Yakuza is an RPG version of Streets of Rage. And I will always see it that way.

 

[Fat Frog]

I can see why people compare Shenmue and Yakuza. But for me, Yakuza is an RPG version of Streets of Rage. And I will always see it that way.

I don't understand either. In my case, I want the help of RGG Studio, AM2 for the next Shenmue. (not the replacement of Suzuki at all nor a VS between the two franchises)

 

[Games of Today]

I love how people are saying that it's boring. Like, do you guys now understand what the point of this game is?

It's not a shooter, a race car game, an open world Zelda game, a Fallout game, IT"S SHENMUE!

The whole point of the game is based on exploring the city to try and find your fathers killer.

You're just an ordinary guy who has to get a job to make money and doesn't have any special powers.

I've never played it but it certainly doesn't look boring. It honestly looks very immersive for an older game.

 

[rkofan87]

I spent $800 aus dollars on the kick starter and can tell you exactly what happened:

• graphics and animation are shite and completely ruin the story immersion.
• the story is gone. Completely.
•dialog between characters and their characterisations turned into utter garbage (looking at you shenua)
• the fighting system felt like it was made on dreams.
• the ONLY bad guys in the game were essentially beavis and butthead, and were a joke.
• Ryo lost all the training he gained and cant even beat said beavis and butthead.
• money took FOREVER to earn and the job routine was not even integrated into the story.
• all money was used on food, and fuck he needs to eats more than a new born
• all suspense was non existent.
• city was too big and empty.
• all mystery and allure was deflated due to the above points.
• end fight was too little too late.
• yakuza took the limelight, game was always going to be shit by comparison.

So yep, no faith in yu suzuki or any interest in the story anymore, its clearly not going to be at the same level as yakuza, which is the new standard for these type of intimate open world games. Hopefully the anime is good and finishes the story instead.

Yuji naka let me down with Balan wonderworld too. Hoping Sonic Team have something good up their sleeve.

the food thing is what made me go f this love 1 and 2 but 3 is just not the same.

 

[wolywood]

I don't think Shenmue 1 and 2's combat aged poorly. I'd like to try them at 60fps. I still loved it in the HD remasters. The spacing, the parries, the counterstrikes. I think its a notch above Yakuza but it might be me. For 20 yrs old, it still felt like deep combat. There are a ton of moves, he has enough for a 1 on 1 fighter. You can punch your way to victory, but some fights will force you to adapt.

Which makes sense as Shenmue started development as a Virtua Fighter RPG.

 

[marcincz]

Maybe answer is in this interview:

New Yu Suzuki Interview - E3 Reveal/ Shenmue 3/ Game Programming

TOM: A while ago you mentioned that you dont really play games. Is that true? Suzuki: I really dont play games (laughs). I want to express the things outside games that I find intriguing inside games. Since my job is making games, I import things from outside games that no one has expressed...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Azelover]

It was a good ride.

The only thing I'm bitter about, is that we're 22 years in, and I don't feel the story has gone much anywhere..

 

[Team Andromeda]

I know Shenmue was expensive, thanks. But doesn't change the fact elements of Shenmue 2 were produced with the 70/47 millions budget... My video is proving it.


What point about Yakuza ? I talked about Shenmue online...
Quote an old post of mine, please, we had long discussion, it's hard to remember.

Or maybe you're mixing up with someone else's quote ?

I never said that Shenmue II wasn't made within the $70 million budget, so don't come it on that one. Shenmue 1 and II was almost fully developed on the Saturn right up until Shenmue 2 disc 4.
Taking it to the DC made SEGA remake everything to insane levels and added in completely new stuff and loads of NPC's, weather system Ect In those days meant massive costs and loads of staff, which added massively to the budget and team size. Back in the 1999, it was almost unheard of to have a game where the credits took 10 mins to roll


And I was never talking about Shenmue Online at all. That was a separate game with a separate budget and a story for another day.