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Sherlock Series 4 |OT| - Did You Miss Me?

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Kathian

Banned
I do wonder what she would have done if the three didn't survive the grenade blast (which conveniently did nothing to the floor, so they didn't even have to bother with collateral damage).

The grenade blast was a stupid thing. They should have just shot John and started with Sherlock at the island.
 

Zen Aku

Member
I do wonder what she would have done if the three didn't survive the grenade blast (which conveniently did nothing to the floor, so they didn't even have to bother with collateral damage).
Mrs.Hudson reinforced the floor with titanium just in case this happens. Isn't she the best.

Also did anyone thought that the coffin room was for Mrs.Hudson?

I think Sherlock said, "widowed, practical about death and" something else.

It didn't hit me at Molly till after John said so. I was like noooooooo not Mrs.Hudson.
 

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
The Wedding is probably my favorite episode of the series. I did not realize it was so hated.

Yeah, I'm a little perplexed why that one is disliked. I've grown to appreciate it even more during my rewatched. So many little things I never caught before. Top tier Sherlock if you ask me. The script is tight as a drum on that one.
 
Catching up with the latest episode now.

They really screwed this show up, didn't they? I've cringed a few times and i'm about half way through. It's all a bit bollocks.
 

Alienous

Member
This show has a real problem with making things more complicated than they need to be.

The mysteries work best when they are deceptively simple. But here you have long-lost siblings, unreliable memories, uncontextualized superpowers ("She can manipulate people". Why? If she was to psychology what Sherlock is to deduction that could be interesting - 'here's a Holmes who doesn't unravel problems but unravels people'. But it's just because she's smart, I guess.).

I'd argue they didn't even need Euros with how they handled Moriarty. Just have it be that he died, but knew Sherlock wouldn't. Those elaborate trials are Moriarty's way of proving himself to be smarter than Sherlock even in death.

The show just isn't clever when it's lying to you. Oh, that little girl wasn't really on that plane, despite you seeing her - it was just a metaphor! Euros didn't kill Sherlock's dog, she killed his childhood best friend, despite them replacing the friend with a non-existent dog in the flashbacks. That isn't misdirection, it's just lies - I can't put my deerstalker on and try to work this one out with Sherlock if they just lie. And I don't get the catharsis of discovery if I realize that the solution requires changing the provided evidence.

Euros shoots Watson .. with a tranquillizer dart. And doesn't use him to drag Sherlock into a confrontation ....no, she does that later. I guess she just leaves him drooling into the carpet and ... returns to her cell? They did not earn the Episode 2 cliffhanger at all.

Just ugh. I enjoyed Episode 2 but ugh to the others.
 

Ruff

Member
Spent the whole of the ending thinking "Who was phone????"

So i guess it was just her putting on a voice and acting it out? uh, okay?
 

Rad-

Member
I thought the last episode was amazing, one of my favorites in the series, until the ending. That was so disappointing.
 
The lack of real conseqeunces for anyone really important lessened the impact of the episode for me. We got reveals about Sherlock's past, but did he really grow as a character from them? That last little Mary bit was completely unnecessary as they did that last week.

Overall, Season 4 was better than Season 3 because ep 2 was one of the best in the series.

Also how the hell does this show only come back in 3 years and not have the budget to do a simple explosion CGI?

There were some great moments in the episode. Nothing will the top the emotional highs reached in the finale of season 2, and this show used to not feel nearly as manipulative.
 

Floex

Member
I thought the last episode was amazing, one of my favorites in the series, until the ending. That was so disappointing.

I honestly don't see how you can be a fan of Sherlock and think that was one of the best episodes. Not having ago or anything but this isn't Sherlock anymore.
 
I honestly don't see how you can be a fan of Sherlock and think that was one of the best episodes. Not having ago or anything but this isn't Sherlock anymore.

It really depends on what you value in the show. There are probably a shit ton of people that loved it. I liked it, and I don't think by any means it was a bad hour and half of televison.
 
I thought Ep. 3 was pretty great. The last Mary dvd felt out of touch but otherwise it was good. A couple of responses to things people complain about:

Like someone said on the last page, the entire coöperation between Eurus and Moriarty was not her manipulating him. It was him manipulating her to fuck with Sherlock through his sister from beyond the grave.

For people who complain about Eurus being able to manipulate everyone in Sherrinford straining credibility. I partly agree. But I would say they set it up last episode. Last episode was pretty much Sherlock doing that to Watson. This episode was Eurus (with a much higher intelligence power level than Sherlock) doing the same thing on a greater scale. If you accepted last episode, this episode is consistent with the precedent set there. Sherlock did something similar to Eurus this episode by realizing that she wouldn't let him shoot himself

About Sherlock rewriting his own memory, that seems like something someone so in control of their own mental abilities would do to protect himself from damaging memories

I also liked the explanation given this episode for why Sherlock programmed himself to push people away. He didn't want to experience loss again the way he did Redbeard.
 
Great episode until it turned out it was all about Eurus crying in her room. But the meh ending didn't ruin my enjoyment of the previous 85 minutes. Great acting from Gatiss.

Toby Jones stole the season.
 
My guess is Mycroft never a actually had to pull the trigger himself. Sure he might have give orders, but never do it with blood on his hands.


I can't remember where it's from. But there was a show or movie where someone has the ability to tell others what to do, and you compell to do it. Like you have to, like there is something bugging you at the back of your mind. Telling you to do it or it won't leave you alone.

I like to imagine Eurus suggestions work in a similar way, she implant a nagging thought into your head that is impossible to ignore.

Jessica Jones? Because that's Killgrave's power in that, but you know that's a show about super hero/villains with super powers.
 

SinShep

Member
Alienous already put most of my thoughts into words about this episode. Just relying on a lot of convolution for the sake of it.

If they still want to make use of Moriarty this far ahead of the Fall, is it not just worth it for him to actually be alive this whole time? Every time he appears to come back just for it to be actually yet another recorded message or flashback gets more and more irritating. It's like they know he's still the best villain character in the series and need more ways to milk him while desperately trying to avoid just bring him back for good.
 

Ceej

Member
Well they pulled the "everyone stops at 3" card with redbeard, I imagine they're holding the "it's never twins" card just in case with Moriarty.

I don't even know how to feel about this ep - it was so good at so many points. I was so tense. When you tease even the possibility (if not actuality) of a series finale, it leaves possibilities on the table that don't normally exist. It just was missing the rope to pull it all together.

I've definitely thought more than once this season that Sherlock possessing a time machine would explain much of the "deductions" that seem to appear from nowhere. It must be tough to not get your wires crossed writing two similar shows.
 

Zen Aku

Member
The lack of real conseqeunces for anyone really important lessened the impact of the episode for me. We got reveals about Sherlock's past, but did he really grow as a character from them? That last little Mary bit was completely unnecessary as they did that last week.

Also how the hell does this show only come back in 3 years and not have the budget to do a simple explosion CGI?
Yes he did. Also I agree that last Mary bit was not what I wanted. But to be fair, in episode 2. That last bit was mainly for John. This was for Sherlock and John.

Also that's not how budget works.

Jessica Jones? Because that's Killgrave's power in that, but you know that's a show about super hero/villains with super powers.
No not Jessica Jones, I would remember that. I think it might have been an old episode of The Twilight Zone. Killgrave power is that he make you want to do it, he makes his ideas yours. With Eurus, it seems like her victims still know what they're doing it not of their own doing, but they have to do it because Eurus told them to.
 
Really fun to watch but not really a good episode when you think about it too much. Similar to Rogue One I think. Oh well, glad they made it and I watched it but I kind of feel like they shouldn't make any more, the show has gotten weaker each series/season.

It reminds me a lot of Marvel comic book movies now in how things have to be bigger and better every time and the villain was basically a mutant with superpowers.
 

Empty

Member
think the third episode had the best moments of this series once you'd been so annoyed by the prior episodes revealing that this wasn't the slick, well acted detective show i originally loved and had begrudgingly come to accept it as a superhero/anime show about eleven dimensional chess players in ridiculously stupid and convoluted plot setups with zero real stakes. it was a good ride.

i'm glad they seemed to have ended it though. at this point i hate every single character and wish they'd all die with absolutely no video and audio evidence of them left over and everyone they have known to die so they can't re-appear in their heads or through flashbacks or through memory palaces. actually just bring on complete annihilation of the human species through nuclear war just to be safe.
 

VAD

Member
Well, who cares if Moffat and Gattis ran out of brillant logical resolutions and went straight up into superhuman powers? The drama was there with all its tension, the characters journeyed through theirs arcs, families were reunited and the dead woman wrapped all of this with an optimistic view of the future. The episode was a joy to watch and an awesome ending to the series (possibly the show?). Once again the production was top of its class (save for the terrible Watson stunt). It's an end of an era for sure if this was indeed the last episode and I will miss the Baker Street boys dearly.
 

BrightLightLava

Unconfirmed Member
I took a look and regret it. wtf is queerbaiting?

The idea that the people running the show throw hits of gayness into the show in order to get fans all riled up with no real intention of having the characters actually be gay.

Anyway, I've always thought that the reaction to this show has been funny. It seems like people have been absolutely disappointed since the very second episode, but have continued watching all the same. All I really looked for from it was Sherlock to be a clever prick and Watson to be achingly human, and that was enough for me. In a perfect world, the show would have stayed a bit more grounded, but it was good enough for me, and I'll miss it if this was, in fact, the end (which it sure seemed like given the montage ending).
 
I just finished this season, and man....What happened to this show? I really did not enjoy almost any of that. So many terrible, terrible decisions were made in this writing. What a disappointment after waiting so long.
 
Okay that was a massive letdown, this basically sums it up for how I felt - Please ignore the spelling mistakes as it's not typed by me.

1.) Why did they give Euros magic powers? It was laughably stupid that she could enslave an entire prison worth of guards and, presumably experienced, psychologists. Oh sorry, she was really really clever. That's fine then.
2.) Sherlock is now stupid. Doesn't solve crimes, doesn't remember his dad was allergic to dogs, can't recognise there is no glass two inches away from his face.
3.) Euros has spent years on this plan. Working with Moriarty, escaping prison, disguising herself as various people to entrap them, building a torturous assault course for Sherlock to escape from. Why does she try and kill them with a grenade drone before it all comes off?
4.) In the small, isolated grounds of a manor house, why did nobody check for a missing child down the nearby well?
5.) Why did Mycroft, super genius, let her talk to Moriarty? A person he explicitly states he thinks is a criminal? Spam can buy giving her a violin as a reward, but this is stupid.
6.) Why is Euros even in prison? A child, who they suspect (not know) killed someone, then set a fire, and they imprison her in the negative zone? Bit far no?
7.) Why is this super prison so shit? Sherlock and Mycroft infiltrate it by respectively putting on a scottish accent and dressing as Captain Birdseye.
8.) Why do they NEED to infiltrate it if Mycroft is so obviously in charge? Just walk in.
9.) How is Watson able to just climb the rope out of the well if he is chained to the floor?
10.) Why was the bit with Molly so rushed? Did she not deserve a bit longer on screen after she finally tells Sherlock she loves him, the culmination of four series of plot?
11.) Why is Mary such a big character?
12.) So what exactly did Euros and Moriarty plan together? Are we just meant to guess? Why did he react to the word Redbeard? He wouldn't know anything about it. Why did she mention Redbeard? Non of Moriarty's schemes involved him in any way.
 
Surprised at the lack of mention about the Ring here. I thought this ep was channeling it pretty hard, what with Eurus design in the prison (white gown and long black hair), all the scenes with her face on the monitor with static, and John ending up in a well where a kid died. Heck, her room is green before the lights turn on.

Yeah the ep was mediocre but the series has on a downward slope since Season 3 so I'm not surprised anymore (didn't like S04E02 that much either except the reveal). Was gonna drop it after this season so I'm glad it (sorta) concludes. That Vox criticism about the portrayal of women in the show and that article about how being smart = being able to literally do magic in this show are pretty spot-on.

Tbh I thought the twist was that airplane was the Coventry "flight of the dead" from Scandal in Belgravia, the girl was dead all along and Eurus just predicts what Sherlock would ask her and records it beforehand. Quite surprised they went where they did (making the whole airplane imaginary) but I didn't really feel that cheated like I normally do with this kind of twist. Guess I like it on a thematic level, even if the "getting the genius back on the ground" is done to death already.

Also, poor Molly. After saying all that and she didn't even get a single solitary fucking shot with both her and Sherlock in the frame. Just literally stumble into the final montage like a fucking 17th wheel.

P/S: They still manage to cram in another appearance of Mary in this ep ffs.

Yeah Euros scared the crap out of me looking like the girl from down the well
 

Toa TAK

Banned
I really, really enjoyed this finale. It wasn't, I think, without enormous problems and overall pretty silly and outright dumb at times. But it was pretty intense and I think the way it concludes by laying out the foundation for the "classic" Holmes and Watson is great. What really kills it for me is how Eurus (who crawled from The Ring) is resolved at the end with the airplane. It felt like a total "whoops lol jk" carpet pull moment I usually despise. A shame because she had the potential to be one of, if not the, best antagonist on the show since Adler.

I'm not the biggest Sherlock fan, but when it's on, I'm there, enthralled, and my eyes are glued for each hour and a half. The series doesn't end as strongly as it's first half, but I'd take more subpar Sherlock any day and do hope to see its return sometime soon.
 

hamchan

Member
-I feel Sherlock actually died at the end of season 2 and the rest of the show is just a fever dream as he lies dying in the street.

-Eurus can clearly go outside and look like a normal person if she wants to, so I guess it's more a fashion choice to look like the girl from the Ring.
 

Not Spaceghost

Spaceghost
2.) doesn't remember his dad was allergic to dogs

The double twist on redbeard (that it was actually sherlocks childhood friend) was so fucking unnecessary. It didn't really make the moment more emotionally powerful or anything and Eurus had already pretty much been solidified as an absolutely horrible human being so like uhhh what why did that have to happen?

With all of sherlocks deductions why didn't he ever put together "why would I have a dog if my dad was allergic?" Then again I feel the obvious answer to that is that the writers probably never intended the twist to be a thing so clearly the dad was never allergic because it was just a dog.

Seriously I don't think we gained anything meaningful out of that other than "shock".
 

kinoki

Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
The double twist on redbeard (that it was actually sherlocks childhood friend) was so fucking unnecessary. It didn't really make the moment more emotionally powerful or anything and Eurus had already pretty much been solidified as an absolutely horrible human being so like uhhh what why did that have to happen?

With all of sherlocks deductions why didn't he ever put together "why would I have a dog if my dad was allergic?" Then again I feel the obvious answer to that is that the writers probably never intended the twist to be a thing so clearly the dad was never allergic because it was just a dog.

Seriously I don't think we gained anything meaningful out of that other than "shock".

Remember that Sherlock doesn't find it interesting wether the sun orbits Earth or the other way around. If that information isn't important to him he just shrugs it off as unnecessary.
 

Razorskin

----- ------
Not done the 4th series just yet, just watched the Christmas special and the first two episodes. Hope there's more on the horizon even if we have to wait 3 years.


An aside, John's hair had looked great this season.
 

Rymuth

Member
Just to remind them that he is really their boss and can fire them in an instance. On the fly evaluation.
Well, that's disappointing. I was bracing for a revelation that everybody has been coming to that room for years and basically that he had X amount of years worth of confessions from them.
 
-I feel Sherlock actually died at the end of season 2 and the rest of the show is just a fever dream as he lies dying in the street.

-Eurus can clearly go outside and look like a normal person if she wants to, so I guess it's more a fashion choice to look like the girl from the Ring.

Makes perfect sense
 

LionPride

Banned
-I feel Sherlock actually died at the end of season 2 and the rest of the show is just a fever dream as he lies dying in the street.

-Eurus can clearly go outside and look like a normal person if she wants to, so I guess it's more a fashion choice to look like the girl from the Ring.

This is always the least inventive stuff ever, no offense to you, but it's childish. Oh the show hasn't been as good as before, it ended for me at Season 2. No one cares.
 

Protome

Member
Having the entire episode be a bad horror movie scenario on an island where there's nothing of what has made the show great up until now was such a bizarre choice. The Molly scene was good though.

Moriarty's inclusion was forced and ultimately pointless
but it was nice to see him again I guess.
Eurus being able to just straight up control people was absurd.
The Redbeard twist added literally nothing.
Mycroft kinda just...goes away in the last torture chamber of the island/their home?

There was just so little I enjoyed about this episode, which is a shame because I actually enjoyed the rest of the season a lot more than Season 3, which in general I thought was pretty terrible. It just failed to stick the landing multiple times. Episode 2 in particular was damn near perfect until they had to force Mary back into it and were too scared to make Sherlock be wrong. If that whole episode had accumulated in Sherlock being completely wrong about not-Jimmy-Saville and nearly dying due to an overdose instead it would have been a lot better.

-I feel Sherlock actually died at the end of season 2 and the rest of the show is just a fever dream as he lies dying in the street.

I could get on board with this being Sherlock's ladder.

An aside, John's hair had looked great this season.

The most consistently great part of this season for sure.
 

Pilgrimzero

Member
Eurus ability to brainwash anyone reminds me of an old elseworlds Superman comic where Lex could talk someone into killing thrmselves in seconds.
 

Protome

Member
This is always the least inventive stuff ever, no offense to you, but it's childish. Oh the show hasn't been as good as before, it ended for me at Season 2. No one cares.
Is it less inventive than making your main character go through several torture puzzle rooms?
 

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
I enjoyed it even though it was stupid. I mean, Sherlock's sister was essentially Kilgrave, which is absurd even for this show.

The ending was also way too cheesy, but at least it didn't end on a cliffhanger. If the series does continue, I'd like to see maybe just a single standalone (focused on a single mystery, and with no over arching storyline) episode every couple years. There'd be no need to do 3 per season with no over arching story, plus at this point it'd probably be too hard to get the cast back for that many episodes anyway.
 

UrbanRats

Member
I actually really like the finale. Built upon a lot of series ideas without getting too convoluted.

Maybe if you actively refuse to think about it.

Seemed to me like they tried to bit off more than they could chew, and the result is an absolutely implausible mess, with many dangling parts that weren't needed.
 

Protome

Member
I feel like Moffat should just bite the bullet and revive Torchwood. His heart is clearly in scifi but Doctor Who doesn't let him go as dark as even Sherlock does (which isn't that dark, but addiction and murder and such aren't kid friendly.)
 

munchie64

Member
Maybe if you actively refuse to think about it.

Seemed to me like they tried to bit off more than they could chew, and the result is an absolutely implausible mess, with many dangling parts that weren't needed.
I dunno. I always try to pay attention to Sherlock because of how its twists work, so I don't think that was a problem. There were some silly things that twisted logic, but that's par for the course.
 

Kain

Member
This season was weird. After the absolutely disgraceful first episode we get a brilliant second episode and a somewhat good but lackluster and rushed third episode. I think I liked the third season better.

The sister thing didn't work. At. All. Her magical powers, Sherlock not remembering nothing, the keeping her hidden for 30 years, the Moriarty thing... nope, bad, badly done.

It could've worked better if the twist wasn't so uninspired and rushed, the episode just ends with the cringe overload. What the hell, what's with Mary in this show? Nothing has ever worked about Mary, NOTHING, and they just keep shoehorning her everywhere even after dead ffs. She was a terrible character and now she becomes the narrator and the one to give purpose to these two when DEAD? Give me a break. And the less we talk about the final running piece, the better. Even the actors were cringing at this, you can tell.

I critized a lot but still, I honestly think it wasn't terrible overall, it was just uninspired. I think the show should not continue anymore.
 
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