Yeah, I really didn't like the fanbase Sherlock got in the Season 3 premiere.
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Sherlock Series 4 |OT| - Did You Miss Me?
- Thread starter bodyofanamerican
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Yeah, I really didn't like the fanbase Sherlock got in the Season 3 premiere.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
In passing John said "she was my therapist and shot me in the face with a tranquilizer" or something to that effect.
I'm not even mentioning all the logical dead ends this episode created.
How did Sherlocks parents know about their dead daughter, but he never even knew she existed?
Umm...thanks for throwing me the ladder...just so you know I'm chained to this well, that's right out in the open...that no one could find?
Why send an extremely deadly grenade to kill sherlock when all you wanted was a hug from him?
Does Sherlock really love that girl, and why was he so mad about saying he loved someone? What's the big deal if he was trying to save her life?
Ugh the more I think about this episode the more annoyed I get.
How did Sherlocks parents know about their dead daughter, but he never even knew she existed?
Umm...thanks for throwing me the ladder...just so you know I'm chained to this well, that's right out in the open...that no one could find?
Why send an extremely deadly grenade to kill sherlock when all you wanted was a hug from him?
Does Sherlock really love that girl, and why was he so mad about saying he loved someone? What's the big deal if he was trying to save her life?
Ugh the more I think about this episode the more annoyed I get.
Eurus was established as being much more intelligent than both Holmes brothers. Also much more unstable. Tradeoff I guess.
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I know a lot of you guys don't like Mary and how big of a presence she became on the show. But I liked her a lot. I used to think John is the most level headed person out of the duo. But when Mary came into the show, I realize that overtime John is almost as crazy as Sherlock sometimes. Having Mary there provided them both a more grounded voice of reason and another person to bounce things off of, that could be clearly see in the wedding episode.
Maybe I just enjoy Amanda take on Mary, I adore the scenes she has with John. The fact that Martin and Amanda used to be married sold me on how authentic their relationship is. While I do understand the complain that shes taking too much spotlight away from the crimesolving buddies relationship in later seasons. I think the show was better for it. By allowing John to get married, have a kid. Throwing another element into the life of both men. Rather than just being two bachelors looking for cases day and night. I think Mary definitely left an impression on Sherlock as well. He clearly respect her and know that she is an intelligent woman that could match his wit in ways John cannot. Her death shook him as much as it did John. Overall I enjoyed her time on the show, while her death or rather the execution of it was a bit bad to me. I did like that her past finally caught up with her and thats what ended up killing her. (I thought if she were to die, that should be the only reason, her past).
The only thing I really didnt like is the ending to the finale this season. I thought that last tape message was unnecessary. I would have been happy that the last time we saw Mary was the ghost inside John's mind. Telling him to finally lets go of his guilt and try and move forward to becoming a better man. That message at the end of episode 2 was perfect. She disappeared from his mind.
If they had to deliver a monologue similar to that to end Episode 3. I'd rather it be from Mycroft himself. It would be fitting that Sherlock and Watson will always be the consulting detective and the doctor, that he still has his people watch over them.
- Guess they dont talk about her. I means Sherlock only visit his parents or talk to them on special holidays occasions. or you can chalk it up to plot hole.
- I think the rope is basically just for John to hang on since he was having trouble even staying up right when the water was that high, while Sherlock or someone climb down to cut off the chain.
- Eurus wanted to break him, to destroy Sherlock. She 'secretly' want to be rescue. But after years of him not understanding her song. She gave up. Its kinda like you know how sometimes people with suicidal thoughts would ask for help but they do it in ways that doesn't seem obvious? That's basically how it is with Eurus. She was crying for help in her own weird, psychotic way. It took years, but Sherlock finally understood her.
- The fact that you're saying 'that girl' kinda prove to me that you don't really follow the show that well. Sherlock is a complex show that needs to be followed from the beginning. Anyway, he doesn't really love her. But shes been infatuated with him since the beginning. Sherlock doesn't really love anyone in a traditional sense. So actually having to say I love you, especially to someone he doesn't feel for is really difficult for him. To our knowledge, he never had any romantic relationship or even dated anyone. His concept of love and dating is almost nonexistence.
Ive seen every episode of the show, and to be honest id almost completely forgot about her character since it's been such a long hiatus since season 3. I'm also typing quick thoughts and didn't really feel like googling her name.
Sorry.
That being said. It's completely ridiculous Sherlock couldn't get over his own "fear" of saying I love you to Save a person he clearly cared about. People say I love you to people on a daily basis. You don't have To be romantically involved with someone to say I love you. Friends / family say it to each other all the time.
Ahh okay gotcha. No problem. Yeah the hiatus has been excruciatingly long. Well... Sherlock isnt exactly normal now he is? The man solve cases for the thrill of it. It's a drug to him. He would literally leave you for dead if your case isn't 'interesting' enough for him. He would be willing to dangle your life like a carrot in front of danger if it help him solve a case or prove a point in a case. (that was how he is the first and second season anyway)
Bottom point is Sherlock doesn't have the slightest idea of what attraction is until he met Irene Adler, so 'love'? that's a complete foreign and ludicrous notion to him. He doesn't believe in it. Sherlock isn't the type of person who say something that he doesn't believe in.
Plus overtime he does grow to care about people, like Molly and Mrs.Hudson. He knows how Molly feel about him and he has been more careful around her (look at the Christmas episode for example. He was a complete dick about her feelings)
So yes while her life is in danger. He couldn't lie to her that he loves her because 1) he doesnt believe in it and 2) he knows she does care deeply about him and lying to her would completely destroy her and in turn it would hurt him too. Since he has grown to care about all these people since John came into his life.
Let me break it down for you as well. If you can't afford to not make it look like shit there are a half dozen different ways to convey the concept in other ways.
Cuz that looked like crap even on my crappy SD feed.
Well anything would look like crap on an SD feed.
Come on man. SD masks imperfections like nothing else. On a CRT even shitty early 2000's CGI is quite passible.
I didn't even read the thread before I slammed pause immediately and came on here to point it out. Then I saw I wasn't alone. It looked like total crap.
And again, there were so many ways they could have done it without resorting to that. Gonna look so goofy on Blu-Ray.
All that said it was a much better episode than the 1st one.
Edit:
Just finished EP03. I think this needs to end. It's just silly as hell now. No punch, but a whole ton of groans.
just got around to watching the second episode, aside from the twist ending I thought it was pretty excellent, easily the best in a long time. I'm just not super happy with the ending
e: ok, the last episode was, like, crazy over the top, but in a sort of amusing way. Not what I expected. I honestly rather liked it because of the spectale and Sherlock, John and Mycroft working together for a whole episode, but narratively this Euron thing is complete bonkers. I mean, LOL
e: ok, the last episode was, like, crazy over the top, but in a sort of amusing way. Not what I expected. I honestly rather liked it because of the spectale and Sherlock, John and Mycroft working together for a whole episode, but narratively this Euron thing is complete bonkers. I mean, LOL
show me your skeleton
Member
oh ho ho she's so quirky with her fast car and metal music oh ho ho.
also that entire scene was for nothing as apparently the grenade barely made a scratch in the floor?
I was wondering the same thing. Usually, a grenade leaves a crater, as the explosion potrudes outwards spherically. In Sherlock's apartment though, the rug was barely burnt.
Quit ruining my fun
Given that they were unsure at how powerful the grenade was, I can let that scene pass. Still doesn't excuse the bad episode overall though not to mention the garbage CGI.
Mycroft explicitly knew what the type and destructive capacity of the grenade was, since he "purchased a lot of them".
dang...
Chiaroscuro
Member
There are a lot of plot holes if you think a little bit about the episode. The episode only works if you follow it like with an adrenaline rush.
I think most of the points were already discussed but, for me:
- The grenade explosion did not left a big impact. And of course, if you want to lure someone into your lair, you do not send him a killing device that you do not know for sure they will survive.
- Mycroft was so dumbed down in this episode.
- The location of the well. Even for an incredible smart child, I found it difficult that Euron could move around much at 4-5 years old. So its location cannot be that far from their house. I understand that an extensive search would not be done for a dog (as Dr. Watson and Mycroft pointed out, it was only a dog). But for a missing child? The search would run for days/weeks. And Euron would have being interviewed by a lot of people (psychologists, etc). Well, even if she could have "re-programmed" everyone at that age, she would never would be imprisoned at all.
I think most of the points were already discussed but, for me:
- The grenade explosion did not left a big impact. And of course, if you want to lure someone into your lair, you do not send him a killing device that you do not know for sure they will survive.
- Mycroft was so dumbed down in this episode.
- The location of the well. Even for an incredible smart child, I found it difficult that Euron could move around much at 4-5 years old. So its location cannot be that far from their house. I understand that an extensive search would not be done for a dog (as Dr. Watson and Mycroft pointed out, it was only a dog). But for a missing child? The search would run for days/weeks. And Euron would have being interviewed by a lot of people (psychologists, etc). Well, even if she could have "re-programmed" everyone at that age, she would never would be imprisoned at all.
Rimon-hanit
Member
I even disagree with the CGI criticism, the explosion was 100% meant to look campy and it did it's job, it was funny.
Was the case dumb? sure, but it wasn't about the case, from the Christmas episode forward the show focused more on the characters.
Was the case dumb? sure, but it wasn't about the case, from the Christmas episode forward the show focused more on the characters.
Spieler Eins
Member
That was one of the better moments of the entire season. His whole arc is growing from being an emotional cripple. Apart from only saying it, that also meant he had to face mentally torturing his friend for no reason.
Napalm_Frank
Member
Still watching the last episode but is my memory bad or is Mycroft weirdly assholish/just feeling a little off this season compared to the previous ones.
CrunchyFrog
Member
Ironically I was pretty underwhelmed by this season. Feels like the show has gotten too big to hold its own weight. Every single episode has to be about the most dire thing ever and it has to be some kind of life-changing event for one or more characters. I know you only get 3 episodes a season but I miss the less self-serious procedural episodes from the first few seasons. This last episode in particular felt absolutely ridiculous for a show like this one, like Dr. Evil crossed with Saw. And the idea that these guys continually just shake it all off like nothing. There are very few intimate character moments anymore, it's all peppered in afterthought or short throwaway scenes, we have to be TOLD how characters have changed or what they're feeling instead of showing it. What the hell was up with that scene with Molly? They have this giant bit of emotional anguish and complexity with absolutely no payoff beyond a bit of particle bard smashing, it's not mentioned at all for the rest of the episode or its conclusion. They also literally used the "secret OTHER evil sibling that we never knew existed before" ploy, probably one of the most bottom of the barrel creative decisions the show has ever made. Oh and she's so damn smart that she can mind control people just because oh shut up we want our crazy sherlock madhouse just let us have our fun we don't want to do actual work shush. Moriarty's reappearance seems to have been nothing more than fan appeasement, his inclusion (or rather his likeness' inclusion) added literally nothing to the story other than hey that's that really awesome guy we killed off too early like a million years ago. There's no explanation for why he's specifically there, what effect it has on our protagonists, or what kind of relationship he and Eurus formed to explain why he would do this for her in the first place (other than weird creepy glass thing). It seems now every episode has to be bigger, more explosions, more convoluted deductions (even those are bordering more on "oh he made a crazy deduction again noone saw it coming, oh wait it's because they intentionally held back information"), crazier villains, bigger bigger bigger. We've moved so far beyond the source material that this is far more an action/adventure show than a detective show with the occasional spicy finale. At this rate next season we'll likely get Sherlock fighting neo-Nazi terrorists in space. I've mentioned it before but I'll say it again: this show has lost its hook of intimacy (REAL intimacy). I really hope season 5 is a return to form, but I suspect it'll be the last season of the show I bother to watch.
It wasn't funny though (and it definitely wasn't meant to be, considering it concluded a hostage scenario).
It was just jarring in its awfulness, if anything.
he's actually at his most likeable this season. I assume you finished the last episode by now, he was being a dick on purpose in that one scene
I thought the episode was intentionally campy as hell. I mean, starting with the Euros reveal in episode 2, we then get the super weird opening in Mycroft's mansion, a drone with a motion-sensor controlled grenade with a red blinking light, the rather hilarious low-budget explosion and jump scene, Mycroft putting on a fake beard and sailor costume, Euros taking over the whole facillity via mind control, Moriaty making a flashy entrance, Euros preparing a series of escape rooms for Sherlock and company, the girl on the plane reveal and lots of other stuff. They threw the suspension of disbelief out of the window then doused it in gasoline and put it on fucking fire, and you know, I can respect that
Vox helped put into words what I was feeling but couldn't personally describe about my problems with this whole season and the show in general:
http://www.vox.com/culture/2017/1/18/14295716/sherlock-season-four-review-plot-holes
http://www.vox.com/culture/2017/1/18/14295716/sherlock-season-four-review-plot-holes
firehawk12
Subete no aware
If it was truly camp, the ending should have been Sherlock making out with Watson.
Yep. Abominable Bride is filler pretty much.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Yep, you'll be fine.
Abominable Bride Spoilers:
Sherlock imagines himself as a detective in the 1800s solving a case where someone shot themselves in the head and seemingly returned, like Moriarty. It's a trick, obviously. So all you need to know is that Sherlock is being returned to London to figure out Moriarty's return.
You can skip it. Do go back later though. I found it to be one of the more enjoyable episodes, probably better than all of S3 and most of S4.
Show is all about style, shock and twist and is plot driven, not character driven. I was still entertained so I'm good with it. There hasn't been a big enough hole in the stories to really bother me. No one should feel dumb for not being able to follow the story though, it's the story that is dumb. Just dumb fun with clever moments.
clarknova156
Member
Just finished the last two episodes. Episode 2 was brilliant. Sherlock at the top of its game. But wow episode 3 was utter gutter trash. I mean seriously? This is the end of the show and we get this? Moffat just weakens Gattis writing which is clearly superior. Not only all that but there is no way we are getting more. Benedict and Martin have good careers and Moffat is basically retiring. Frankly at this point I only consider season 1 and 2 worth watching. 3 was total fan service and 4 had one redeeming episode.
It's obvious the heart of this show has moved on and while the actors do a superb job it just feels like all the good focus of what Sherlock is became an interpersonal relationship shit show. My advice for any fans? Watch the first 2 of season 4 and ignore the last as it does nothing but treat the fans like mouth breathing emotional saps. How disappointing an end.
It's obvious the heart of this show has moved on and while the actors do a superb job it just feels like all the good focus of what Sherlock is became an interpersonal relationship shit show. My advice for any fans? Watch the first 2 of season 4 and ignore the last as it does nothing but treat the fans like mouth breathing emotional saps. How disappointing an end.
clarknova156
Member
That's exactly what I thought. It wasn't clever it was lazy or at the very least poorly conceived.
Also, Mycroft did not perform like the more brilliant Holmes brother that I expected him to be. He just wasn't very helpful in solving problems in this episode. I'm also very confused about the last part. So Sherlock and gang got shot by a dart that put them to sleep. So the sister then flew them all to their old home for that final "problem" to solve? I assumed they were on the prison island the whole time before that.
clarknova156
Member
It was a poorly written second half. Lots of weird holes in her behavior and poorly resolved conclusion. Mycroft might as well have been a sack of dog shit for the whole show. He's shown as a brilliant character for the rest of the series then he suddenly stops being able to do anything and acts like he's had a lobotomy for the Saw puzzle.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I was really digging the episode up until around that point. There was a moment where I thought it was being aware of the fact that Mycroft was sorta useless but was going to turn that around. Like when they needed to figure out who the coffin was for and Sherlock went through a long deductive process but Mycroft decided to just look at the lid. That was the point I thought "Oh okay, they're going to contrast their abilities a little." But they didn't...The coffin lid just said I Love You, it didn't really lead to anything.
It's such an odd decision to make because that could have been a nice little moment for Mycroft but instead it didn't really do anything. The viewer was going to see who it was for and the show just sorta threw the idea of figuring out away immediately. It literally posed a question, sorta attempted to solve it, and then grew tired of the question and blurted out the answer.
Having the coffin say I Love You doesn't mean anything, especially since there is some ambiguity on if Sherlock actually meant that. But if it said Molly Hooper, then we would have seen that sometimes Mycroft (or John) are needed because Sherlock overthinks and looks past things, a moment that the same episode had already setup with the missing glass. It's a seemingly tiny detail but it speaks volumes to how sloppy this show has gotten.
Septimus Prime
Member
I felt the same way about Mycroft, but someone pointed out that he was deliberately being unhelpful to make Sherlock want to kill him instead of John. I thought that only applied to the last puzzle, though.
bodyofanamerican
Member
The further I get from TFP, the more I'm looking at it as an overall bummer. Episode two was one of the best they've done, so we got that at least, but at this point, I'm ok with them ending it now, or at least doing a Christmas special every few years.
Wow, people are so negative. I really enjoyed the season though I thought the first episode was the weakest. It didn't pull me back in like I thought it would. Season 2 did the job though and I thought the final episode was great.
And people dislike Mary? I thought still having her back in the episodes even though she died was a nice touch.
I did not get why Molly was so depressed in the last episode though and ignored Sherlock. Can't recall anything happening in the episode before and her life isn't so bad.
And people dislike Mary? I thought still having her back in the episodes even though she died was a nice touch.
I did not get why Molly was so depressed in the last episode though and ignored Sherlock. Can't recall anything happening in the episode before and her life isn't so bad.
I feel like this series would've been stronger if they had kept the tone and scale of events around the level of its pilot episode, or at most, A Scandal of Belgravia.
Two non-famous men solving crime on the streets of London, occasionally being called upon by the British government to handle bigger cases. Keep it low key.
Instead, they went full James Bond.
Two non-famous men solving crime on the streets of London, occasionally being called upon by the British government to handle bigger cases. Keep it low key.
Instead, they went full James Bond.
Auron_Kale
Member
I'm mixed as a whole on S4 but there were some great character moments.
I really like Mary, as they did flesh her out more, but I didn't buy her as a super spy at all.
As for Molly, she was just having a bad day when Sherlock called. Compounded with being forced to say "I love you" to a guy she's had a crush on since S1 (5 years total) while it was still true for her yet not for him, was the definition of needless cruelty.
They nailed it.
Yeah, the second episode is better than the first.
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