• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Shuhei Yoshida: "We believe in the premium release of a title" before subscriptions

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yeh ironically they went straight to the Xbox endgame strategy.

Too early for a 100% cloud model for any company right now, especially ones with big libraries like PS and Xbox.

Stadia was a success for a little bit because it had a very tiny curated list of games. Getting the entire PS/Xbox library cloud only will be a massive challenge.
 

GHG

Gold Member
Too early for a 100% cloud model for any company right now, especially ones with big libraries like PS and Xbox.

Stadia was a success for a little bit because it had a very tiny curated list of games. Getting the entire PS/Xbox library cloud only will be a massive challenge.

Stadia was never a "success".

The challenge isn't getting the games available on cloud, geforce now has proven this, the challenge is having enough server capacity. But if there's a scenario where enough muggins are willing to support it I'm sure they will be happy to queue.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Stadia was a success for a little bit
tenor.gif
 
Sony had PSplus before MS, so they giving games to PSplus describers on a montly basis for a long time. And Sony has now theyr version of "gamepass" with aprox. 800 games.

But they not throwing theyr first party games on theyr service day one, and are not pushing ore paying third party developers to,do that. But most third party developers are not taking the bait that MS is holding for theyr face. They want to sell theyr games first and much later put them on services, so they in a way agree with the Sony approach.
I agree with everything you said, except your spelling of the word their.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Stadia was never a "success".

The challenge isn't getting the games available on cloud, geforce now has proven this, the challenge is having enough server capacity. But if there's a scenario where enough muggins are willing to support it I'm sure they will be happy to queue.

Success is maybe a strong word.

Stadia was 'relevant' for a little bit.
 
I believe GP model will lead to devaluation of games and gaming as a whole.
Hard to profit sub model
Games have to be cheaper to make
Games have to be gaas
Userbase gets used to free/cheap games.


Death of 60-70$ high quality games... and death of physical and and ownership... so HOPE IT'S NOT END ALL BE ALL !
I like ps because of physical games but it was really hard to find tlou part 1 in stores day 1... almost like they printed very little copies.

At the same time - I have almost 600 games on steam and just also got a steam deck... a digital only device. My brain is pancake

Starfield is cheap? Elder Scrolls 6 will be cheap? Fallout 5 will be cheap? Fable? Hellblade 2? Indiana Jones? Redfall? Perfect Dark? Avowed? The Outer Worlds 2? What about all the other first party studios like id software, coalition, inXile with games coming to Game Pass?

None of the games I listed are games as a service.

Hard to profit from sub model? This is Microsoft we are talking about... Game Pass is more or less adopting the Office 365 model. Whenever people factor in the profitability of Game Pass and the sustainability of it with very high quality, big budget AAAs you MUST also factor the company attached to this and their ability to bankroll those kinds of things. Microsoft is one of those companies who are perfectly fine with not getting a full premium sale up front. They're more than comfortable getting it over the course of their fiscal year. Such a thing would be more difficult for Sony in the short term because Sony's overall business simply isn't quite as strong as Microsoft's.

In Microsoft's more recent 3 month quarterly report for Q4 FY 2022 (3 months ended June 2022) these were the results.

$51.9 billion in revenue
$20.5 billion in operating income
$16.7 billion in net income


But what about the entire fiscal year? Microsoft's FY 2022 (12 months ended June 2022)

$198.3 billion in revenue
$83.4 billion in operating income
$72.7 billion in net income


Compare that to Sony's most recent full fiscal year 2021 (12 months Ended Mar 31, 2022)

$69.4 billion in revenue
$8.4 billion in operating income
$6.1 billion in net income


Another way to look at these numbers is the following:

For every $5 billion of revenue Microsoft makes $2.10 billion in Operating income
For every $5 billion of revenue Sony makes $605 million in Operating income


It's better to say all this would be far less sustainable for Sony, but not Microsoft. They're not the same. Sony as a company who doesn't bring in the kind of money Microsoft does is more in need of getting their return on their investment faster via premium, full price sales. Microsoft? They're perfectly fine with waiting and getting their money throughout the year. You see what they make in 3 months compared to Sony for a full year?

And keep in mind that Game Pass has grown 15 million subs since 2020. It's no doubt likely to grow further over the next 8 years (not assuming the pace will be the same, of course), especially once the Activision deal is approved and major releases like Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6 drop. Game Pass growing means MORE revenue coming in. We see the way Microsoft as an overall business converts revenue. Clearly so far with Game Pass along with a gaming business that isn't quite as profitable as either Sony's or Nintendo's hasn't done nearly enough to stop Microsoft as a company from consistently reporting record earnings.

So when you suggest games will be cheaper, it will lead to the devaluation of games, and it will never be profitable, be careful to never forget that this is Microsoft we are talking about. They are not separate from Xbox. And when that Activision deal, giving them Call of Duty (mobile versions too), Candy Crush, Diablo, Overwatch, World of Warcraft etc, etc., closes this will all be even more true.
 
Last edited:
This is the way. Look at all of the hype for Sony's big games like GoW Ragnarok and Spider-man 2
This is the way? Yes buddy its been like that for decade's 😅 Microsoft are taking things forward and innovating within the industry, and it's a far better and cheaper way to play games. The fact Sony keep saying they're not going to do that speaks volumes with regards to how well received GP has been.
 
Gamepass is TOO generous from a business perspective imo.

I mean, it’s great from my end, but I can’t see how it makes them much money.

Especially pretty much giving it away with the really blatant loophole that they apparently know about but don’t care.

🤷🏼‍♂️


Technically there is no loophole if Microsoft knows about it and still tells people about it. Also, there are limits lol.

In order to keep getting that first month for $1 game pass deal, you have to use an entirely different credit/debit card or game pass account every single time. I don't think people are grabbing a new credit or debit card every month just to keep that going. The significant majority are more or less paying full price for game pass if they keep it beyond 1 month.

As to converting xbox live gold to game pass ultimate for up to 36 months aka 3 years #1 - you already paid Microsoft for gold or game pass to begin with. #2 - you can only do it one time only as a new game pass customer. #3 - they actually log your credit/debit card to prevent you from abusing the promotion again and again.

This is the same way services like crunchyroll prevent people from abusing their various promotional deals. They log your credit and debit cards to make sure you can't do it again unless they decide to offer you another chance by way of removing the limit for a customer they want to come back. Uber and instacart are both known for doing this.

People that say this are giving people wayyyyy too much credit. Most people ain't got the time to be trying this hard to cheap out on a service that's already so damn cheap to begin with lol. So people just go ahead and $9.99 per month or $14.99. When game pass first dropped, Xbox execs handed me like 3 years worth of game pass free on a card at Xbox Fanfest 2017. I gave one to a friend's son, and kept two for myself. I've been paying for game pass monthly non-stop since june 2019. And since Ultimate dropped, I've been paying monthly for that also.
 

ClosBSAS

Member
who cares...xbox will get COD and bethesda, sony first party...and PC gets all the love. thank you consoles.
 

GHG

Gold Member
Xbox execs handed me like 3 years worth of game pass free on a card at Xbox Fanfest 2017.

Sloth Tell GIF


Well why mention (more than once) why they aren't putting first party games day and date on a sub service at all? Your competition has been doing that to great effect, pressure is obviously mounting for Sony to do the same, you don't see that?

What, this kind of pressure? :


The kind of pressure that results in executives losing their jobs?

The kind of pressure that results in first party games that released in the last 12 months being absent from monthly and annual sales charts all over the world?

The kind of pressure where your hardware is firmly in 3rd place across the world?

The kind of pressure that results in you needing to spend upwards of $80 billion in order to even have a chance of staying competitive?

Sounds tough.
 
Last edited:

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Starfield is cheap? Elder Scrolls 6 will be cheap? Fallout 5 will be cheap? Fable? Hellblade 2? Indiana Jones? Redfall? Fallout 5? Perfect Dark? Avowed? The Outer Worlds 2? What about all the other first party studios like id software, coalition, inXile with games coming to Game Pass?

None of the games I listed are games as a service.

Hard to profit from sub model? This is Microsoft we are talking about... Game Pass is more or less adopting the Office 365 model. Whenever people factor in the profitability of Game Pass and the sustainability of it with very high quality, big budget AAAs you MUST also factor the company attached to this and their ability to bankroll those kinds of things. Microsoft is one of those companies who are perfectly fine with not getting a full premium sale up front. They're more than comfortable getting it over the course of their fiscal year. Such a thing would be more difficult for Sony in the short term because Sony's overall business simply isn't quite as strong as Microsoft's.

In Microsoft's more recent 3 month quarterly report for Q4 FY 2022 (3 months ended June 2022) these were the results.

$51.9 billion in revenue
$20.5 billion in operating income
$16.7 billion in net income


But what about the entire fiscal year? Microsoft's FY 2022 (12 months ended June 2022)

$198.3 billion in revenue
$83.4 billion in operating income
$72.7 billion in net income


Compare that to Sony's most recent full fiscal year 2021 (12 months Ended Mar 31, 2022)

$69.4 billion in revenue
$8.4 billion in operating income
$6.1 billion in net income


Another way to look at these numbers is the following:

For every $5 billion of revenue Microsoft makes $2.10 billion in Operating income
For every $5 billion of revenue Sony makes $605 million in Operating income


It's better to say all this would be far less sustainable for Sony, but not Microsoft. They're not the same. Sony as a company who doesn't bring in the kind of money Microsoft does is more in need of getting their return on their investment faster via premium, full price sales. Microsoft? They're perfectly fine with waiting and getting their money throughout the year. You see what they make in 3 months compared to Sony for a full year?

And keep in mind that Game Pass has grown 15 million subs since 2020. It's no doubt likely to grow further over the next 8 years (not assuming the pace will be the same, of course), especially once the Activision deal is approved and major releases like Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6 drop. Game Pass growing means MORE revenue coming in. We see the way Microsoft as an overall business converts revenue. Clearly so far with Game Pass along with a gaming business that isn't quite as profitable as either Sony's or Nintendo's hasn't done nearly enough to stop Microsoft as a company from consistently reporting record earnings.

So when you suggest games will be cheaper, it will lead to the devaluation of games, and it will never be profitable, be careful to never forget that this is Microsoft we are talking about. They are not separate from Xbox. And when that Activision deal, giving them Call of Duty (mobile versions too), Candy Crush, Diablo, Overwatch, World of Warcraft etc, etc., closes this will all be even more true.
most of these games are not made for gamepass.
Starfield, fallout, tes6... probably even partially hellblade were all created with traditional. model in mind

I am not getting into numbers, sorry but I do not care. All I care for possible incoming death of gaming because of gp
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
This is the way? Yes buddy its been like that for decade's 😅 Microsoft are taking things forward and innovating within the industry, and it's a far better and cheaper way to play games. The fact Sony keep saying they're not going to do that speaks volumes with regards to how well received GP has been.
What Sony is doing is working. What MS is doing with GP is unproven in gaming and no one else is trying it

That speaks volumes
 

skit_data

Member
Well why mention (more than once) why they aren't putting first party games day and date on a sub service at all? Your competition has been doing that to great effect, pressure is obviously mounting for Sony to do the same, you don't see that?
They clarify their strategy, it’s somewhere in between Nintendo and Xbox’s strategies. I don’t see how not fully adopting Xbox strategy speaks volumes of GPs success.
 
Sloth Tell GIF




What, this kind of pressure? :

[/URL]

The kind of pressure that results in executives losing their jobs?

The kind of pressure that results in first party games that released in the last 12 months being absent from monthly and annual sales charts all over the world?

The kind of pressure where your hardware is firmly in 3rd place across the world?

The kind of pressure that results in you needing to spend upwards of $80 billion in order to even have a chance of staying competitive?

Sounds tough.
Are you serious? Halo has development problems, nothing to do with GP stop with the nonsense. I couldn't care less about market share etc I'm not a CEO I just want value as a customer and GP delivers 👍
 

Pelta88

Member
Starfield is cheap? Elder Scrolls 6 will be cheap? Fallout 5 will be cheap? Fable? Hellblade 2? Indiana Jones? Redfall? Fallout 5? Perfect Dark? Avowed? The Outer Worlds 2? What about all the other first party studios like id software, coalition, inXile with games coming to Game Pass?

None of the games I listed are games as a service.

Hard to profit from sub model? This is Microsoft we are talking about... Game Pass is more or less adopting the Office 365 model. Whenever people factor in the profitability of Game Pass and the sustainability of it with very high quality, big budget AAAs you MUST also factor the company attached to this and their ability to bankroll those kinds of things. Microsoft is one of those companies who are perfectly fine with not getting a full premium sale up front. They're more than comfortable getting it over the course of their fiscal year. Such a thing would be more difficult for Sony in the short term because Sony's overall business simply isn't quite as strong as Microsoft's.

In Microsoft's more recent 3 month quarterly report for Q4 FY 2022 (3 months ended June 2022) these were the results.

$51.9 billion in revenue
$20.5 billion in operating income
$16.7 billion in net income


But what about the entire fiscal year? Microsoft's FY 2022 (12 months ended June 2022)

$198.3 billion in revenue
$83.4 billion in operating income
$72.7 billion in net income


Compare that to Sony's most recent full fiscal year 2021 (12 months Ended Mar 31, 2022)

$69.4 billion in revenue
$8.4 billion in operating income
$6.1 billion in net income


Another way to look at these numbers is the following:

For every $5 billion of revenue Microsoft makes $2.10 billion in Operating income
For every $5 billion of revenue Sony makes $605 million in Operating income


It's better to say all this would be far less sustainable for Sony, but not Microsoft. They're not the same. Sony as a company who doesn't bring in the kind of money Microsoft does is more in need of getting their return on their investment faster via premium, full price sales. Microsoft? They're perfectly fine with waiting and getting their money throughout the year. You see what they make in 3 months compared to Sony for a full year?

And keep in mind that Game Pass has grown 15 million subs since 2020. It's no doubt likely to grow further over the next 8 years (not assuming the pace will be the same, of course), especially once the Activision deal is approved and major releases like Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6 drop. Game Pass growing means MORE revenue coming in. We see the way Microsoft as an overall business converts revenue. Clearly so far with Game Pass along with a gaming business that isn't quite as profitable as either Sony's or Nintendo's hasn't done nearly enough to stop Microsoft as a company from consistently reporting record earnings.

So when you suggest games will be cheaper, it will lead to the devaluation of games, and it will never be profitable, be careful to never forget that this is Microsoft we are talking about. They are not separate from Xbox. And when that Activision deal, giving them Call of Duty (mobile versions too), Candy Crush, Diablo, Overwatch, World of Warcraft etc, etc., closes this will all be even more true.

I see someone doesn't understand the difference between revenue and profit. Microsoft doesn't reveal XBOX profit for a reason.
 
They clarify their strategy, it’s somewhere in between Nintendo and Xbox’s strategies. I don’t see how not fully adopting Xbox strategy speaks volumes of GPs success.
Not yet, but they're strategy as you put it has changed because of GP and only a fool would say otherwise.
 
It’s their choice, at least you know where to go if you want to play stuff that’s less than a year old on your subscription.
This is the right sentiment. There is no reason for Sony to do what MS is doing nor is there any reason for MS to copy Sony. They should both be successful doing things differently. Hopefully the CMA realizes that Sony was first to introduce a console gaming subscription service and even bought a cloud streaming service first. MS just found more success in those avenues and ran with it. They competed and carved their own path.

There is no reason for anyone to complain about Game pass because Sony is choosing to not follow that model that is their right. I appreciate there are options for customers who either A) want to pay retail prices for new games or B) customers who prefer to have the option to either subscribe OR purchase at retail to get new games. People always forget all Xbox games are still sold through normal channels and there is no such thing as a Game pass exclusive game. I want things to stay this way and don't want either to seriously change.
 
Last edited:
This is the right sentiment. There is no reason for Sony to do what MS is doing nor is there any reason for MS to copy Sony. They should both be successful doing things differently. Hopefully the CMA realizes that Sony was first to introduce a console gaming subscription service and even bought a cloud streaming service first. MS just found more success in those avenues and ran with it. They competed and carved their own path.

There is no reason for anyone to complain about Game pass because Sony is choosing to not follow that model that is their right. I appreciate there are options for customers who either A) want to pay retail prices for new games or B) customers who prefer to have the option to either subscribe OR purchase at retail to get new games. People always forget all Xbox games are still sold through normal channels and there is no such thing as a Game pass exclusive game. I want things to stay this way and don't want either to seriously change.

CMA won't block Activision deal. Have zero doubt.
 
Top Bottom