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So uh, FFVII kind of sucks?

BossLackey

Gold Member



FFVII (and FF in general) was kind of a white whale for me growing up. Feel like I played everything but FF. When picking up my PS5 earlier this year, I got the heavy hitters on the console and that included FFVIIR.

I. Fucking. Loved it. Couldn't get enough and then it was over before I knew it. Knew definitively then that I just had to finally play the original.

I'm no stranger to old games. Grew up on the NES and every console forward (and PC) and still often play games older than this. But dear lord this game has problems that I think stem from it being the first 3D title in the franchise and it's protracted development cycle. I actually quite like the way it looks, especially the in-battle character models, but could we please decide on character style? There are 3 vastly different looking character models depending on whether you're in battle, out of battle, or watching an FMV. It's odd. The constant shuffling of party members is aggravating (something that I hated about Remake). The ATB system feels like the worst of both worlds. Instead of feeling exciting, I feel rushed to make decisions AND it's also boring. Press x to win. Didn't quite do enough damage? Change the spell. That's it. That's the combat. Also, the constantly changing camera angles screw up who you're trying to target half the time.

Walk 10 feet. BATTLE!
Walk 10 feet. BATTLE!
Walk 10 feet. BATTLE!

A lot of older JRPGs had randomized battles, but it's so egregious here. This alone is reason enough to put it down IMO. I'm literally afraid of walking in slightly the wrong direction in the open world.

Then there's the shoehorned "mini-games" that aren't even kind of fun and half the time the game does such a poor job of communicating to me what I'm supposed to do that I succeed by trial and error rather than specific effort.

I greatly enjoyed everything up until getting to the open world where my enjoyment quickly fell of a cliff. Cloud is cool, Sephiroth is cool, Midgar is cool. But that's not enough to float this game for me. I think if I continue this game it will strictly be for the sake of completion since I'm anticipating Rebirth and I'd like to know where they deviate.

I understand why it was such a big deal at the time. FMVs, badass villain (in looks at least), cool guy with big sword, 3D graphics. But damn. Shit's overrated as hell.
 

JLB

Member
Was a huge fan of the sage on PS1 times, and still think its a great game, though definitely some of the mechanics like the one you mention is a real pain nowadays.
 

A.Romero

Member
Well, yeah. I mean, it's been decades since the game released so gaming has evolved significantly since then. It has to be criticized taking the context into account. At the time it was a great game.

If you are not enjoying it it's not worth it of your time. Just watch some videos.
 

BossLackey

Gold Member
Well, yeah. I mean, it's been decades since the game released so gaming has evolved significantly since then. It has to be criticized taking the context into account. At the time it was a great game.

If you are not enjoying it it's not worth it of your time. Just watch some videos.

I probably will watch the major story beats on YT or something.

I played Chrono Trigger for the first time in 2007 or so and fucking loved it. I think it's less to do with it having aged necessarily and more to do with the era of "we're making a 3D game for the first time and are in uncharted territory".
 
Walk 10 feet. BATTLE!
Walk 10 feet. BATTLE!
Walk 10 feet. BATTLE!
Even with all that repetition FFVII is 40 hours long and has a lot of content. I actually like that random battle design for as long as the core game is good.

I don't feel that a lot of modern JRPG's have more content despite not having as many battles, perhaps they spend that time in cutscenes or in repeat fetch quests. Dunno. Balance didn't seem off to me with FFVII when I last replayed it.
 

Naked Lunch

Member
Disgusted a GAFer typed up that tragedy.
Even though FFVII truly does pale in comparison to the SNES games it followed - its still one of the all time great videogames.

Sounds like you have more of a beef with turn based JRPGs in general. Random battles are far more frequent in other games. Dragon Quest V for example.
 
Walk 10 feet. BATTLE!
Walk 10 feet. BATTLE!
Walk 10 feet. BATTLE!

A lot of older JRPGs had randomized battles, but it's so egregious here. This alone is reason enough to put it down IMO. I'm literally afraid of walking in slightly the wrong direction in the open world.
Don't the more recent releases of these games allow you to turn off and/or speed up random battles?
 
Guys I'm 33

Then act like it.

JK, everyone has an opinion. It's fine.

Actually it was good for it's time, but there were better JRPGs released around then.

In 97? What are they?

I mean, I guess some may be "better" in some overall way according to your particular tastes... none are as groundbreaking at that time, I don't think. Xenogears was a year later or so, and was on a similar kind of scale in terms of epic JRPG adventures, and is also great.
 
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BossLackey

Gold Member
Disgusted a GAFer typed up that tragedy.
Even though FFVII truly does pale in comparison to the SNES games it followed - its still one of the all time great videogames.

Sounds like you have more of a beef with turn based JRPGs in general. Random battles are far more frequent in other games. Dragon Quest V for example.
I don't love turn based RPGs, but there are plenty of them that I enjoyed over FFVII.

Plus, Materia kind of trivializes the unique aspects of each character. Completely blurs the lines between them.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler



FFVII (and FF in general) was kind of a white whale for me growing up. Feel like I played everything but FF. When picking up my PS5 earlier this year, I got the heavy hitters on the console and that included FFVIIR.

I. Fucking. Loved it. Couldn't get enough and then it was over before I knew it. Knew definitively then that I just had to finally play the original.

I'm no stranger to old games. Grew up on the NES and every console forward (and PC) and still often play games older than this. But dear lord this game has problems that I think stem from it being the first 3D title in the franchise and it's protracted development cycle. I actually quite like the way it looks, especially the in-battle character models, but could we please decide on character style? There are 3 vastly different looking character models depending on whether you're in battle, out of battle, or watching an FMV. It's odd. The constant shuffling of party members is aggravating (something that I hated about Remake). The ATB system feels like the worst of both worlds. Instead of feeling exciting, I feel rushed to make decisions AND it's also boring. Press x to win. Didn't quite do enough damage? Change the spell. That's it. That's the combat. Also, the constantly changing camera angles screw up who you're trying to target half the time.

Walk 10 feet. BATTLE!
Walk 10 feet. BATTLE!
Walk 10 feet. BATTLE!

A lot of older JRPGs had randomized battles, but it's so egregious here. This alone is reason enough to put it down IMO. I'm literally afraid of walking in slightly the wrong direction in the open world.

Then there's the shoehorned "mini-games" that aren't even kind of fun and half the time the game does such a poor job of communicating to me what I'm supposed to do that I succeed by trial and error rather than specific effort.

I greatly enjoyed everything up until getting to the open world where my enjoyment quickly fell of a cliff. Cloud is cool, Sephiroth is cool, Midgar is cool. But that's not enough to float this game for me. I think if I continue this game it will strictly be for the sake of completion since I'm anticipating Rebirth and I'd like to know where they deviate.

I understand why it was such a big deal at the time. FMVs, badass villain (in looks at least), cool guy with big sword, 3D graphics. But damn. Shit's overrated as hell.

Ouch. This whole post.

That's hardly the combat, either. You sound like the FFVIIR players who made up their mind already and decided to spout things about being a hack and slash with no brain involvement despite quitting halfway through chapter one.

By end game, you can cast Fire on a Mother fucker, absorb his HP and steal from his ass in one turn. He attacks? Counterattack. Big group of enemies? Slash all or 4x Cut. Get killed in battle? Final Attack + Phoenix, Auto Life. There is so much SHIT you can Jerry rig in FFVII that in the year of our Lord 2022, it's STILL one of the freest, agency filled battle systems of the series, barring titles with the Job system.

It requires some investment of time and dedication. You don't have the TOOLS early game to do much beside attack and spam elemental weaknesses, but the box opens up pretty quickly.
 

SenjutsuSage

Halo TV Series Promoter - Live from: Reach
To this day the original murders the remake for me. Maybe due to my years gaming on PC and being used to emulators, my imagination just time travels so well. By that I mean a game released way back in 1997 can look like it's cutting edge graphically to me due to how much I get engrossed by the game world and its vision.
 
Well, yeah. I mean, it's been decades since the game released so gaming has evolved significantly since then. It has to be criticized taking the context into account. At the time it was a great game.

If you are not enjoying it it's not worth it of your time. Just watch some videos.
1 the game that you played when 11 has a big impact

2 it was your first JRPG

Nostalgia is real. I have the same feelings about Baldur's Gate.
 

BryceNobody

Member
If you dislike random encounters, have you tried playing the remastered PS4/Xbox/Switch version that lets you toggle cheats and turn them off? Might float your boat and allow you to just enjoy the story.

The absolute gall to post this thinking GAF would agree with you…

 
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TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
If you dislike the random encounters, have you tried playing the remastered PS4/Xbox/Switch version that lets you toggle cheats and turn them off? Might float your boat and let you just enjoy the story.

If you were looking to post this on GAF and get some positive responses…


I've never understood disliking random encounters in an RPG. RPGs are very symbiotic to me, that is, the game typically isn't engaging enough without the story, and the story isn't usually written well enough that I'd say, read it if it were a novel.

Battles are a huge part of RPGs. It's kind of a litmus test for whether or not you're gonna like RPGs - whether or not you dislike random battles. As soon as you realize that they're part of the game and not just an annoyance to keep you from the next cutscene or whatever, it gels well.
 
Final Fantasy VII is still fantastic. I'm playing it currently on Steam Deck and I'm right at the end. Holds up to this day.

Comparing it to FFVII Remake is pointless for a thousand reasons, not the smallest of which is FFVII Remake is not a remake, but a sequel.
 

BossLackey

Gold Member
Ouch. This whole post.

That's hardly the combat, either. You sound like the FFVIIR players who made up their mind already and decided to spout things about being a hack and slash with no brain involvement despite quitting halfway through chapter one.

By end game, you can cast Fire on a Mother fucker, absorb his HP and steal from his ass in one turn. He attacks? Counterattack. Big group of enemies? Slash all or 4x Cut. Get killed in battle? Final Attack + Phoenix, Auto Life. There is so much SHIT you can Jerry rig in FFVII that in the year of our Lord 2022, it's STILL one of the freest, agency filled battle systems of the series, barring titles with the Job system.

It requires some investment of time and dedication. You don't have the TOOLS early game to do much beside attack and spam elemental weaknesses, but the box opens up pretty quickly.
That's fair. Maybe I should reserve judgment for later in the game. I'm open to changing my opinion. I want to like it. Maybe I'm just in a rough section of the game.
 

BryceNobody

Member
I've never understood disliking random encounters in an RPG. RPGs are very symbiotic to me, that is, the game typically isn't engaging enough without the story, and the story isn't usually written well enough that I'd say, read it if it were a novel.

Battles are a huge part of RPGs. It's kind of a litmus test for whether or not you're gonna like RPGs - whether or not you dislike random battles. As soon as you realize that they're part of the game and not just an annoyance to keep you from the next cutscene or whatever, it gels well.
I'm usually fine with random encounters so long as they're done well. It's all about the timing and variety of the battles; if I'm stuck fighting the same three enemies 50 times in the same area, then there's a legitimate complaint for their presence.

FFVII never struck me as out of balance. Felt like the random encounters were fine and even pretty fun. I thought FFX's encounter rate was far more irritating.

Final Fantasy VII is still fantastic. I'm playing it currently on Steam Deck and I'm right at the end. Holds up to this day.
Yep. Replayed it this year. Story still dunks on anything found in most modern games.
 
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A.Romero

Member
I probably will watch the major story beats on YT or something.

I played Chrono Trigger for the first time in 2007 or so and fucking loved it. I think it's less to do with it having aged necessarily and more to do with the era of "we're making a 3D game for the first time and are in uncharted territory".

Funnily enough, I just finished CT on 3DS (I never got around to it when it was released) and felt it was better in my memory than it actually is. However, I still place it in the time it was made and it makes sense.

TBH haven't played FFVII since the first decade of the 2,000 but I know that it doesn't have timeless gameplay (very few games do). That doesn't make it bad retroactively, IMO.

Is CT better than FFVII? Not sure, I enjoyed both immensely back then but I was younger when played CT and even the fact that it had art by Akira Toriyama was a big deal for me. On the other hand, FFVII gave me a new perspective of what gaming could be.

I seldom go back to older games because of this. I couldn't deal for example with MGS and that game blew my mind back then.
 

Fbh

Gold Member
The one thing I'll agree with is that random encounters are a shit tier mechanic that was annoying back then and has aged like milk. It's the one thing keeping me from replaying more older JRPG's.
It's almost criminal that we never got a proper turn based FF without random encounters. It took square until the late Ps2 era to finally get past random encounters in main Final Fantasy when they had already moved past them with Chrono Trigger all the way back in 95.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
That's fair. Maybe I should reserve judgment for later in the game. I'm open to changing my opinion. I want to like it. Maybe I'm just in a rough section of the game.

Final Fantasy titles in some cases are very hand holdy with gameplay mechanics at first. They were going the Nintendo direction for a Minute there and assuming the player was the lowest denominator and never played a game before in their lives, so you usually get a couple of dungeons where the combat is very simple to ease in complete laymen. FFXIII is the worst with this, but yeah. I don't know how far you got in the original before making this thread, but definitely wait until the Materia fully opens up and you start getting Command/Support/Summoner stuff. If you don't like it once it opens up, it's just not for you, I guess.

Normally I'd say if you don't vibe with it, don't play it, it's not a crime to dislike something popular. But you said you want to like it, so just see if you find it more engaging as the systems get deeper.
 
Running to the remake for the shiny graphics on PS5 first which from a simple Google search would tell you it's the not the full experience but you just couldn't help yourself huh?

I love shitting on FF VII but I'm joining with the VII fans on this one. You fucked up HEAVY.
 

wtftad

Gold Member
Having played the original for more than 200 hours...I also prefer the remake.

FF7 Remake >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FF7

HOWEVER OP....your thread is bad and you should feel bad.

 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
The ATB system feels like the worst of both worlds. Instead of feeling exciting, I feel rushed to make decisions AND it's also boring.

Funny, that's exactly one of the things I hated about the remake (I hated almost everything about it). That kinda-real-time-but-not-really battle system just didn't do it for me. As you say, the worst of both worlds. Stressful AND boring all at once.
 
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