Support NeoGAF

[Eddie-Griffin]

Holy shit you could not have any worse of a take about Mania. Mania easily has some of the best level design in the entire franchise, it's better than Sonic 1 & 2 for sure in that aspect. Nobody had a honeymoon period with that game, it's still regarded as a great game and the only complaint the game ever got since it's launch was the fact that it's mostly old stages. But the level design is so different and original it's easy to forgive for that.

Nope,

Sonic Mania definitely had a honeymoon period after years and years of bad releases and disappointments. It had a strong worth of mouth and sales were strong but then people started taking a second look and then the sales flat lined then declined. It took Sonic Mania Plus and discounts, including being bundled with Forces to cross the 1 million sold threshold which it was struggling to reach for years. Now Mania is barely in conversation out of fan boards.

The game was pulling on Nostalgia again but they had already done that 3 times before the game released so there was a limit to how many ex-fans or old players of the originals that was going to get, the criticism with it's stage design, poor design choices in some levels, especially original one, and reused assets were always a problem. It made people just go back and play Sonic 1-K and CD later on and Manaia became viewed as a flawed homage.

I'm sure there are people who hold the game in high regard but the majority moved on after the honeymoon period. It's why despite how it was marketed and who it was targeting it couldn't bring back enough people to the franchise.

 

[SomeGit]

Nope,

Sonic Mania definitely had a honeymoon period after years and years of bad releases and disappointments. It had a strong worth of mouth and sales were strong but then people started taking a second look and then the sales flat lined then declined. It took Sonic Mania Plus and discounts, including being bundled with Forces to cross the 1 million sold threshold which it was struggling to reach for years. Now Mania is barely in conversation out of fan boards.

The game was pulling on Nostalgia again but they had already done that 3 times before the game released so there was a limit to how many ex-fans or old players of the originals that was going to get, the criticism with it's stage design, poor design choices in some levels, especially original one, and reused assets were always a problem. It made people just go back and play Sonic 1-K and CD later on and Manaia became viewed as a flawed homage.

I'm sure there are people who hold the game in high regard but the majority moved on after the honeymoon period. It's why despite how it was marketed and who it was targeting it couldn't bring back enough people to the franchise.

Mania had 1 million copies sold in April 2018, 3 months before Plus came out.

What are you on about?

Of course people aren’t continuously debating the game, it a 5 year old 2D single player game, what other 5 year old single player game gets still dragged into discussion? Not many.

 

[Fake]

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Mania had 1 million copies sold in April 2018, 3 months before Plus came out.

What are you on about?

Of course people aren’t continuously debating the game, it a 5 year old 2D single player game, what other 5 year old single player game gets still dragged into discussion? Not many.

They announced those number before they sold them shipped vs. sold, but that's not relevant.

The game sales were front loaded, they sold well for the first few months and then struggled for close to a year afterward just crossing the 1 million finish line then you saw more sales then Sega just stopped talking about the game in terms of performance.

People had stopped debating the game within it's first 6 months and it quickly declined.

People are not understanding how much Mania's initial hype was based on having a 2D Sonic pulling nostalgia from the classic games after years of Sonic which only lasted for a short time before people stopped realizing the problems.

If Mania with Mania plus couldn't do much more than that, selling more than half less than Shadow the Hedgehog at that, it tells you that many people who were fans of the original Sonic games didn't give too craps about it. That's just a fact.

Current discussion has nothing to do with debate either, the debate and high levels of conversation about the game ended when it was still relevant. NOW, outside of some sonic/sega focused boards there's almost know conversation about Mania at all that's worth any salt. Instead Sonic games being talked about are the same as usual, Unleashed missed potential, Generations, the Genesis games, Sonic CD, and the SA games. Mania isn't even in rotation.

 

[SomeGit]

They announced those number before they sold them shipped vs. sold, but that's not relevant.

The game sales were front loaded, they sold well for the first few months and then struggled for close to a year afterward just crossing the 1 million finish line then you saw more sales then Sega just stopped talking about the game in terms of performance.

People had stopped debating the game within it's first 6 months and it quickly declined.

People are not understanding how much Mania's initial hype was based on having a 2D Sonic pulling nostalgia from the classic games after years of Sonic which only lasted for a short time before people stopped realizing the problems.

If Mania with Mania plus couldn't do much more than that, selling more than half less than Shadow the Hedgehog at that, it tells you that many people who were fans of the original Sonic games didn't give too craps about it. That's just a fact.

Current discussion has nothing to do with debate either, the debate and high levels of conversation about the game ended when it was still relevant. NOW, outside of some sonic/sega focused boards there's almost know conversation about Mania at all that's worth any salt. Instead Sonic games being talked about are the same as usual, Unleashed missed potential, Generations, the Genesis games, Sonic CD, and the SA games. Mania isn't even in rotation.

Shipped sales for a digital only game? You are out of your mind.


Again Plus (the retail version) came out 3 months AFTER that announcement, so it was 1 million before any retail presence.

And I don’t know what to say, Mania is still praised today but I’m no going to fight your made up narrative. Maybe those games had spikes in attention but that’s because they had releases in the meantime, like Origins and Xbox BC, nothing tells me that Mania dropped of a cliff like you are implying. And without any meaningful metrics it’s just your word.

The only metric I can think of is Google Trends and Mania is far ahead on Unleashed and on par with Adventure, which would include both SA1 and SA2. But Google trends is very flawed.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Shipped sales for a digital only game? You are out of your mind.

?

This was when digital games were still commonly shipping digital cards you could buy at retailers. They included those in the sales which aren't good until they are brought and activated so shouldn't have counted. I know these days that's a lot more rare (Gamestop I think stopped selling them in 2019 or something) but they were more common then.

And I don’t know what to say, Mania is still praised today but I’m no going to fight your made up narrative. M

You're making up the narrative. the sales of the series don't lie as well as the wider discussion it had for the first several motnhs after release and then it dudeesnly died down. if you want to lie and pretend that means I'm saying the game wasn't "praised" which has nothing to do with what I said you can but it doesn't change the fact you're avoiding.

It struggled to reach 1 million sales within it's first year and then collapsed and Sega stopped talking about it. As much as the game was pushing nostalgia, and getting glowing reviews and praise from people and how whitehead and co outdid Sega and how it's a return to from and was just like the classics and ..... amazing game after years of terrible games, T

he fact it couldn't even sell 2 million tells you most people who were targeted by the game, primarily lapsed Sonic fans or previous Genesis game players, didn't actually care enough about the game. Some played it and left with the complaints I mentioned before.

If you like Mania you should also be able to see why the game wasn't perfect and couldn't sustain that hype and why many people had problems with it or didn't bother with it instead of pretending it was perfect, I can't help you there. it's out of most discussions now and it was outside of social media circles outside fans not too long after its release overshadowed by continuing scorn at Forces.

The only metric I can think of is Google Trends and Mania is far ahead on Unleashed and on par with Adventure, which would include both SA1 and SA2. But Google trends is very flawed.

We have sales which you are ignoring for some reason.

Also google trends indicates nothing, Mania is still on sell, it's a recent game and it's more accessible so it's going to trend higher based on a mixture of search results, ads, listings, and product sites.

It's not hard to look at forum and social media discussion outside of fans, Mania is talked about on occasion but most discussion is still based on the Genesis and Adventure games with nots to Generations and Unleashed, you can even see that with some recent threads on this board in the last year outside the responses like yours.

 

[LRKD]

The problem with Sonic, is there are at least three completely separate sonic video game fanbases. at this point The 2D fans, the early 3D fans, and the boost fans. So even if a Sonic game releases and is a 'good' game, there is a good chance that the other two fanbases won't like the game and will complain. It's not as simple as 'they wanna feel like they are playing adventure 2 again' because that's only a small section of the fanbase, there is a large section that hates adventure 2, and only wants to 'feel like they are playing daytime Unleashed stages', and another that want's to only be playing S3&Ks.

Imo, Sonic 06 is honestly probably the closest they could've gotten to pleasing all of the 3D fans though. It had the adventure gameplay and writing, along with the "mach speed" Zones, a prototype of what would become boost gameplay, and it didn't have any of those shitty 2D padding sections. If they had actually finished making that game before they released it I think it could've been really well received.
And I think that if Sega wants to please as many sonic fans as possible with a single game they should look back to 06 and fully mix Adventure and boost into one game. Have a close to 50 50 split of both types of stages, Adventure style anime writing, adding back a fully optional side chao garden, and removing all the shitty 2D segments. And then on the side continue releasing like mania/rush sonic games for 2d fans.

Frontiers, honestly performance issues aside still don't feel like a fun game imo, don't get me wrong Sonic's speed and movement in the open world is fun, and the scale of the open world is really cool. Having objectives in the boost stages is nice. Not as good as Adventure 2's stage missions system, But it's still a nice feature and helps the stages have longer play time by encouraging the player to replay and master the stage. But the open world is just so uninteresting it doesn't matter. And then seeing stage 1-3 was yet another shitty 2D bloat stage in a 3D sonic game, and the time it takes between getting to the different stages doing open world bloat. Idk there's def some potential here and the things I like help keep me playing, but cards on the table, I'm not a fan of open world games, and I'm not a fan of the boost sonic games lol. This one just isn't for me, but I'm sure there will be fans of it, and I'm sure that it'll help divide the already fractured sonic fanbase even further lol.

 

[Nvzman]

It's embarrassing that sonic fans are taking this seriously but at the same time anyone who ever watches a Dunkey video and takes his opinion seriously (even in his actual serious review videos) are equally as questionable.
He deliberately plays games poorly to make his dislike of them seem more valid. Death Stranding was the most obnoxious one, the guy was intentionally playing it like a blind person so it made the movement look jankier and buggier than it really was. The schtick got old kinda quick, he's not as funny as he used to be.

 

[SomeGit]

?

This was when digital games were still commonly shipping digital cards you could buy at retailers. They included those in the sales which aren't good until they are brought and activated so shouldn't have counted. I know these days that's a lot more rare (Gamestop I think stopped selling them in 2019 or something) but they were more common then.

Yeah the thing that Mania didn’t have until AFTER Plus was already out. No they were included because SEGA didn’t ship them. Why do you keep doubling down on this BS, nothing in the announcement says shipped. Especially when it’s clear you have no idea what you are talking about.

You're making up the narrative. the sales of the series don't lie as well as the wider discussion it had for the first several motnhs after release and then it dudeesnly died down. if you want to lie and pretend that means I'm saying the game wasn't "praised" which has nothing to do with what I said you can but it doesn't change the fact you're avoiding.

It struggled to reach 1 million sales within it's first year and then collapsed and Sega stopped talking about it. As much as the game was pushing nostalgia, and getting glowing reviews and praise from people and how whitehead and co outdid Sega and how it's a return to from and was just like the classics and ..... amazing game after years of terrible games, T

he fact it couldn't even sell 2 million tells you most people who were targeted by the game, primarily lapsed Sonic fans or previous Genesis game players, didn't actually care enough about the game. Some played it and left with the complaints I mentioned before.

If you like Mania you should also be able to see why the game wasn't perfect and couldn't sustain that hype and why many people had problems with it or didn't bother with it instead of pretending it was perfect, I can't help you there. it's out of most discussions now and it was outside of social media circles outside fans not too long after its release overshadowed by continuing scorn at Forces.

Narrative? I did nothing, look at your post that is grade A narrative building, with 0 facts to back that up.

It couldn’t sell 2 million, please state your sources.

They stopped talking about it, it was the basis for their marketing for over 2 years, including a animated series, but sure man keep building that narrative in your head.

We have sales which you are ignoring for some reason.

We don’t, that’s the funny thing, you won’t find any mention anything online about the number of Sonic Mania sales BESIDES what they said in April 2018. Go on find a source, I dare you. Sega never releases individual unit sales for any of their titles, we only know about 1 millions for Mania because they we out of their way to tell us about it.

Fuck I’ll avatar bet that you will find nothing saying that Mania lifetime sales are below 2 million.

It's not hard to look at forum and social media discussion outside of fans, Mania is talked about on occasion but most discussion is still based on the Genesis and Adventure games with nots to Generations and Unleashed, you can even see that with some recent threads on this board in the last year outside the responses like yours.

Sure whatever you say, 0 metrics 0 sources, go on build that narrative in your head.

 

[Secret of Evolution]

Half way through the third island now and it’s still good but there are definitely some valid criticisms. 1) There really isn’t much of substance in the open world. Puzzles are designed for little kids so most of them border on brain dead. The only thing to really do is uncover the map, which is still somewhat enjoyable but not as fun as it was at first. 2) The story, while not terrible like most 3D sonics, is extremely light. Not much there to think about or twists or development beyond “Sonic rescue friends.” The only interesting part is the Sage and she hasn’t gotten much screentime. I do appreciate the references to SA1. 3) Large difficulty spikes. Some stages I can stroll around and get S rank, others force me to watch YouTube videos to figure out what I’m missing after my 20th failed attempt. 4). Combat is significantly better and more interesting than previous sonics but it’s still mostly neutral. Things have absolutely no balance between spamming special moves and the general pointlessness of fighting anything. You can only level up skills from fighting XP, and there are barely any skills and they’re basically all overpowered and infinitely spammable. 5) I have no clue why people think fishing is great. It’s 2 QTEs over and over again, and it loudly interrupts the chill music with the victory jingle every 10 seconds.

Watching the Digital Foundry video and it looks fun. Switch looks and performa like hot garbage.

How does it run on deck (for those who have had hands on time with that version)?

Playing on deck at basically locked 40, with the screen refresh rate set to 40 makes it look butter smooth. Using these settings: https://steamah.com/sonic-frontiers-better-performance-on-steam-deck/

 

[PSYGN]

Sonic fans are weirdos

 

[SkylineRKR]

Finally did 1-2 with S. a few hundreds lol... after 20+ retries. This one is brutal but it was fun to tackle it finally. And with that, island 1 is 100%.

 

[Ristifer]

Not sure why anyone would bring up Mania in this discussion. It was actually insanely well-crafted. Sonic Team's efforts are generally not. Nostalgia has nothing to do with it when a team outside of Sonic Team can craft something so lovingly, showing the "experts" how it's done.

 

[BlackTron]

And then seeing stage 1-3 was yet another shitty 2D bloat stage in a 3D sonic game, and the time it takes between getting to the different stages doing open world bloat.

The above is exactly how I felt playing BOTW meandering the giant map between samey shrines. And as soon as this game was unveiled I said "breath of the hedgehog". Talk about chasing trends, Sonic -__-

 

[BlackTron]

Make what you will.

Can't help but say something that's been nagging at me while I read reviews for this game.

I can't stand how often a game "does a good job of laying a foundation for the future" of in this case, Sonic. Okay so it succeeded as a beta test, do you want to review it as a game now?

Seriously, it's pathetic to wait years for a game, spend 60-70 bucks, and end up with "progress". Screw progress, deliver the next gen solution already. This shit happens many releases in a row. Can the professionals take over please??

 

[Secret of Evolution]

Disappointed this game didn’t get a nomination for best OST in the game awards.

 

[TheMan]

I know steam reviews aren't exactly the end all be all, but it currently has an overwhelmingly positive user rating which is usually, in my experience, a sign of a pretty good game.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Pure Xbox gave it a positive review

https://www.purexbox.com/reviews/xbox-series-x/sonic-frontiers

 

[MMaRsu]

I know steam reviews aren't exactly the end all be all, but it currently has an overwhelmingly positive user rating which is usually, in my experience, a sign of a pretty good game.

Or bad taste

 

[BattleScar]

Can't help but say something that's been nagging at me while I read reviews for this game.

I can't stand how often a game "does a good job of laying a foundation for the future" of in this case, Sonic. Okay so it succeeded as a beta test, do you want to review it as a game now?

Seriously, it's pathetic to wait years for a game, spend 60-70 bucks, and end up with "progress". Screw progress, deliver the next gen solution already. This shit happens many releases in a row. Can the professionals take over please??

The metacritic will settle to reflect that.
People are enjoying it and think its a good foundation for the future. Nobody is making any pretensions that this is some kind of unappreciated masterpiece.

Its a fun, unpolished game. That's all.

 

[Belthazar]

Can't help but say something that's been nagging at me while I read reviews for this game. I can't stand how often a game "does a good job of laying a foundation for the future" of in this case, Sonic. Okay so it succeeded as a beta test, do you want to review it as a game now?

The game is fun, unpolished but fun. That's all there is to it really.

Most of the reviews do mention it's a good foundation that can and should be improved over, which is obviously true, but also clearly state that the game is just fun to play.

The critics never gave Sonic a pat in the back and they haven't started now, it's delusional and very unaware to think so.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

The problem with Sonic, is there are at least three completely separate sonic video game fanbases. at this point The 2D fans, the early 3D fans, and the boost fans. So even if a Sonic game releases and is a 'good' game, there is a good chance that the other two fanbases won't like the game and will complain. It's not as simple as 'they wanna feel like they are playing adventure 2 again' because that's only a small section of the fanbase, there is a large section that hates adventure 2, and only wants to 'feel like they are playing daytime Unleashed stages', and another that want's to only be playing S3&Ks.

Imo, Sonic 06 is honestly probably the closest they could've gotten to pleasing all of the 3D fans though. It had the adventure gameplay and writing, along with the "mach speed" Zones, a prototype of what would become boost gameplay, and it didn't have any of those shitty 2D padding sections. If they had actually finished making that game before they released it I think it could've been really well received.
And I think that if Sega wants to please as many sonic fans as possible with a single game they should look back to 06 and fully mix Adventure and boost into one game. Have a close to 50 50 split of both types of stages, Adventure style anime writing, adding back a fully optional side chao garden, and removing all the shitty 2D segments. And then on the side continue releasing like mania/rush sonic games for 2d fans.

Frontiers, honestly performance issues aside still don't feel like a fun game imo, don't get me wrong Sonic's speed and movement in the open world is fun, and the scale of the open world is really cool. Having objectives in the boost stages is nice. Not as good as Adventure 2's stage missions system, But it's still a nice feature and helps the stages have longer play time by encouraging the player to replay and master the stage. But the open world is just so uninteresting it doesn't matter. And then seeing stage 1-3 was yet another shitty 2D bloat stage in a 3D sonic game, and the time it takes between getting to the different stages doing open world bloat. Idk there's def some potential here and the things I like help keep me playing, but cards on the table, I'm not a fan of open world games, and I'm not a fan of the boost sonic games lol. This one just isn't for me, but I'm sure there will be fans of it, and I'm sure that it'll help divide the already fractured sonic fanbase even further lol.

Not really, many of the boost fans tolerate colors and Unleashed but think that they are downgrades. You could argue Unleashed had it's own exclusive fans for a 4th group.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Disappointed this game didn’t get a nomination for best OST in the game awards.

Yes. Its my number one OST of this year. Elden Ring's is good too, but not like this mixture of ambient and pure techno.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Can't help but say something that's been nagging at me while I read reviews for this game.

I can't stand how often a game "does a good job of laying a foundation for the future" of in this case, Sonic. Okay so it succeeded as a beta test, do you want to review it as a game now?

Seriously, it's pathetic to wait years for a game, spend 60-70 bucks, and end up with "progress". Screw progress, deliver the next gen solution already. This shit happens many releases in a row. Can the professionals take over please??

Well it might've been a case of lost in translation.

I mean its a new direction for Sonic, who was mostly about clearing speed stages, with some hub inbetween. They now created open zones you can sort of explore, and beat bosses and challenges in any order you see fit. So yes, they will see what works and what doesn't work.

The game, Sonic Team jank aside, is rather feature complete. Its a rather big game (20 hr ish) with some side activities going on. Working on better times in cyberspace is quite fun too.

On the flipside, today developers can improve their released games on the fly. In the classic days before live updates if a game was broken or bugged there was nothing you could do about it. That doesn't mean they should release betas or early access as full releases today. Sonic is an acquired taste, but I enjoy it so far and it was fairly priced at 50.

 

[SCB3]

Alright, so waiting for GoW to download last nigh and finished off all the content of the first 2 Islands and now about to start the 3rd, I like it alot, its a very chill game to just run around and collect stuff and for a Sonic game, its not too cringy its its story or acting.

The OST is fantastic as well, but fuck me that second island boss is perhaps one of the worst designed bosses I've ever played, to give an idea

Its a Boss where because its high up, you have to scale a tower to jump on top of it, a good 3 min climb, then you start the fight as Super Sonic:

• Flying at the boss, then parring a Rocket back at him to stun him
• Then parry his swipe, sometimes 2, sometimes it decides to do this off screen so fuck me I guess for not being psychic
• then his health is down to about half, it throws a fucking QTE at you thats so fast you of course hit square asap
• but wait it was a QTE you had to wait for the exact moment to hit and not asap
• so you fail, then its Game Over - The fuck?
• Back to the Checkp.... I have to restart from the bottom of the FUCKING TOWER!
• I should add that thats not the only QTE you have to do in that fight
• also, this is the first QTE in the entire game at this point in a Boss

well done Sonic Team for ruining that epic fight

 

[cireza]

Alright, so waiting for GoW to download last nigh and finished off all the content of the first 2 Islands and now about to start the 3rd, I like it alot, its a very chill game to just run around and collect stuff and for a Sonic game, its not too cringy its its story or acting.

The OST is fantastic as well, but fuck me that second island boss is perhaps one of the worst designed bosses I've ever played, to give an idea

Its a Boss where because its high up, you have to scale a tower to jump on top of it, a good 3 min climb, then you start the fight as Super Sonic:

• Flying at the boss, then parring a Rocket back at him to stun him
• Then parry his swipe, sometimes 2, sometimes it decides to do this off screen so fuck me I guess for not being psychic
• then his health is down to about half, it throws a fucking QTE at you thats so fast you of course hit square asap
• but wait it was a QTE you had to wait for the exact moment to hit and not asap
• so you fail, then its Game Over - The fuck?
• Back to the Checkp.... I have to restart from the bottom of the FUCKING TOWER!
• I should add that thats not the only QTE you have to do in that fight
• also, this is the first QTE in the entire game at this point in a Boss

well done Sonic Team for ruining that epic fight

I did not have any issue with this boss and found it fantastic.

 

[Secret of Evolution]

Alright, so waiting for GoW to download last nigh and finished off all the content of the first 2 Islands and now about to start the 3rd, I like it alot, its a very chill game to just run around and collect stuff and for a Sonic game, its not too cringy its its story or acting.

The OST is fantastic as well, but fuck me that second island boss is perhaps one of the worst designed bosses I've ever played, to give an idea

Its a Boss where because its high up, you have to scale a tower to jump on top of it, a good 3 min climb, then you start the fight as Super Sonic:

• Flying at the boss, then parring a Rocket back at him to stun him
• Then parry his swipe, sometimes 2, sometimes it decides to do this off screen so fuck me I guess for not being psychic
• then his health is down to about half, it throws a fucking QTE at you thats so fast you of course hit square asap
• but wait it was a QTE you had to wait for the exact moment to hit and not asap
• so you fail, then its Game Over - The fuck?
• Back to the Checkp.... I have to restart from the bottom of the FUCKING TOWER!
• I should add that thats not the only QTE you have to do in that fight
• also, this is the first QTE in the entire game at this point in a Boss

well done Sonic Team for ruining that epic fight

The required double parry was super annoying and took me way too long to figure out the timing for it.

 

[MysticalChaos]

Soundtrack is great

 

[names are for friends]

I did not have any issue with this boss and found it fantastic.

That boss has some issues but that person sounds mentally challenged

This game pwns. I feel bad for criticising it early on. I expected it to be complete shite but it's clear that this is a real game... it's clearly the biggest budget Sonic game ever and they had a really tight design

 

[Secret of Evolution]

Just learned in the tool tips that there is no timing for parrying, and you can just hold the bumpers forever. What the fuck.

 

[Zephir]

Never thought I would see a 3D Sonic with an Accolades Trailer but, here we are, and I'm happy for it

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Never thought I would see a 3D Sonic with an Accolades Trailer but, here we are, and I'm happy for it

I'm a sonic fan, but I find it funny that Sonic Team out here celebrating their B-

 

[Saber]

I'm a sonic fan, but I find it funny that Sonic Team out here celebrating their B-

Not only that, but a bunch of magazines/outlets I never heard of.
I guess a win its a win in their book xD

 

[Alan Wake]

The problem with Sonic, is there are at least three completely separate sonic video game fanbases. at this point The 2D fans, the early 3D fans, and the boost fans. So even if a Sonic game releases and is a 'good' game, there is a good chance that the other two fanbases won't like the game and will complain. It's not as simple as 'they wanna feel like they are playing adventure 2 again' because that's only a small section of the fanbase, there is a large section that hates adventure 2, and only wants to 'feel like they are playing daytime Unleashed stages', and another that want's to only be playing S3&Ks.

Haven't thought of it that way but you're right. Maybe that's why the cyberspace levels are there after all, despite feeling "off" in the kind of game that Frontiers is. I guess I'm one of those who can enjoy both 3D and 2D Sonic. Both can work if done properly.

Sonic Frontiers is the boldest and best 3D Sonic game since Sonic Adventure. I never thought Sonic would work in an open environment but gosh I was wrong. Frontiers is absolutely something they should continue to build on. A sequel needs more interesting open levels and its own identity. Frontiers feels all over the place at times, it's so much going on.

I hope the game does well!

 

[chigstoke]

I completed the main story last night.

I was somewhat disappointed with the final titan fight. My expectation is that when you’re Super Sonic, the last fight needs to be an absolute extravaganza. The second part of it being just a QTEwas somewhat disappointing to me.

But overall, I really enjoyed the story. Not too complex, just about what you expect from a Sonic game IMO. Now I need to 100% the islands and complete all stage objectives.

But man it’s been so long since I’ve enjoyed a Sonic game like this. It’s one of my favourite franchises and I thought it was beginning to be a lost cause, along with Splinter Cell, and how the tables have turned. An actually good Sonic game and recent promising news on the SC 20th Anniversary.

Now to complete the trifecta and see what the Max Payne 1+2 remakes will be like.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

The new Pokemon is only spitting distance from Sonic Frontiers MC score.

 

[Zephir]

The second part of it being just a QTEwas somewhat disappointing to me.

Spoiler

play on hard

 

[TaroYamada]

This is fanboyish-sounding so I'm going to clarify the statement. I'm very obviously a Sega fan but for years I've been disappointed with 3D Sonic. My perception of the 3D games was that they largely failed to live up to the design of the 2D games -- not just in actual quality which I think most of us wouldn't dispute but in spirit. The 2D games have very open ended level design with multiple paths and Sonic is very easily controllable. In 3D he's never felt particularly controllable to me until Frontiers' open zones, precision platforming is inside the Genesis entries and not really feasible in the 3D entries. Meanwhile I've felt Mario was very much controllable starting in 64. I did not think Sonic Generations was particularly exceptional like a lot of other Sonic or Sega fans, to me it was something of a C+ experience. Sonic Mania? Pretty damn good even if I do still think Sonic 2 is the apex of our beleaguered franchise.

I'm a big fan of 3D platformers however and was always disappointed that Sonic Team seemed incapable of figuring out how to make Sonic playable in 3D in even the most basic sense, his movement, despite some promising groundwork laid all the way back on Saturn. The last two 3D platformers I played were Psychonauts 2 and Mario 3D World and Bowser's Fury. I keep thinking back to Bowser's Fury for obvious reasons, there's a lot of similarities between what Nintendo was doing there and Sega is doing here -- though that concept was entirely seamless and obviously smaller scale than what Sega's done with Frontiers. 3D World though? It's the first time I've played a 3D Mario game and just not clicked with it, love 64, love Galaxy 2 and Odyssey and think Galaxy was great too. Never played Sunshine admittedly but 3D World disappointed me and while I'm playing Frontiers I keep thinking about how Sega's finally put out a 3D Sonic game that I prefer over a 3D Mario, a franchise I consider to be the finest line of 3D platformers overall.

So congratulations Sonic Team.

 

[TMLT]

So far i'm thinking its probably the best 3d Sonic since the Adventure games. Maybe thats damning it with faint praise, I dunno.

Its far from perfect but they have a really solid foundation to build on and refine now.

 

[DryvBy]

So far i'm thinking its probably the best 3d Sonic since the Adventure games. Maybe thats damning it with faint praise, I dunno.

Its far from perfect but they have a really solid foundation to build on and refine now.

I came here to say this. I forgot I pre-ordered this and was planning on a return to Amazon. Then my kid opened it before I got off work.

I played it. After an hour, I was hooked. It's not an amazing game but it's a unique Sonic game and where the franchise should go from here. This game is a good 6/10. I rate things lower but I think a 6 is fair. There's a lot of stupid stuff but overall the game is fun to play and the formula worked for me. It's the best 3D since Generations.

 

[MacReady13]

Just picked this up yesterday and had a bash for about an hour. Really enjoyed it. Fun game and surprisingly Sonic works in an pen world! Kind reminds me though of that Mario open world Bowser's Fury. Still needs work but a really positive 1st step.

 

[tygertrip]

This is fanboyish-sounding so I'm going to clarify the statement. I'm very obviously a Sega fan but for years I've been disappointed with 3D Sonic. My perception of the 3D games was that they largely failed to live up to the design of the 2D games -- not just in actual quality which I think most of us wouldn't dispute but in spirit. The 2D games have very open ended level design with multiple paths and Sonic is very easily controllable. In 3D he's never felt particularly controllable to me until Frontiers' open zones, precision platforming is inside the Genesis entries and not really feasible in the 3D entries. Meanwhile I've felt Mario was very much controllable starting in 64. I did not think Sonic Generations was particularly exceptional like a lot of other Sonic or Sega fans, to me it was something of a C+ experience. Sonic Mania? Pretty damn good even if I do still think Sonic 2 is the apex of our beleaguered franchise.

I'm a big fan of 3D platformers however and was always disappointed that Sonic Team seemed incapable of figuring out how to make Sonic playable in 3D in even the most basic sense, his movement, despite some promising groundwork laid all the way back on Saturn. The last two 3D platformers I played were Psychonauts 2 and Mario 3D World and Bowser's Fury. I keep thinking back to Bowser's Fury for obvious reasons, there's a lot of similarities between what Nintendo was doing there and Sega is doing here -- though that concept was entirely seamless and obviously smaller scale than what Sega's done with Frontiers. 3D World though? It's the first time I've played a 3D Mario game and just not clicked with it, love 64, love Galaxy 2 and Odyssey and think Galaxy was great too. Never played Sunshine admittedly but 3D World disappointed me and while I'm playing Frontiers I keep thinking about how Sega's finally put out a 3D Sonic game that I prefer over a 3D Mario, a franchise I consider to be the finest line of 3D platformers overall.

So congratulations Sonic Team.

Whoa! You articulated almost exactly how I feel about the Sonic series. The 3D games never quite felt like Sonic to me (oh, I loved Colors and Generations, but they still were missing what made the Genesis games Mario killers back in the day). When it comes to Mario, we are opposite though. I always thought Mario 64 was slow and dull, while I thought 3D World was great! Of course, I was too busy playing Quake online to be impressed by Mario 64 when it came out, lol.

 

[Miles708]

At this point some reviews are just written in blatant bad faith. This is a legit properly good game.

 

[TaroYamada]

Whoa! You articulated almost exactly how I feel about the Sonic series. The 3D games never quite felt like Sonic to me (oh, I loved Colors and Generations, but they still were missing what made the Genesis games Mario killers back in the day). When it comes to Mario, we are opposite though. I always thought Mario 64 was slow and dull, while I thought 3D World was great! Of course, I was too busy playing Quake online to be impressed by Mario 64 when it came out, lol.

Thanks! As a Sega fan I've spent a lot of time thinking about their mistakes, and their inability to transfer the actual gameplay of the 2D titles into 3D has been top of mind for a lot of it. Especially because some parts of the solution were pretty obvious and have been for some time.

As an aside I finished the game, enjoyed the vast majority of my time with it.

And a couple reviews I haven't seen posted Draugoth

EPN, I liked this one:


and DSOGaming: https://www.dsogaming.com/special/reviews/sonic-frontiers-pc-review/

 

[Eevee86]

Everything after Chaos Island felt unfinished.

 

[TaroYamada]

 

[Zephir]

It deserves to win, at least because it'll send Sonic Team a clear message from fans and players, unbound by "official" reviews

 

[winjer]

 

[Beer Baelly]

Man here I was hoping it was an official patch for consoles.

 

[ViciousAgenda]

This is quite a fun game. It reminds me of AA titles during the ps3 era. They never got a bevy of 10/10 reviews but had enough charm to keep you playing.