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Sony announces PlayStation VR2 and Sense Controllers at CES

Loxus

Member
I’ve seen people say that it’s “confirmed” to have eye tracking based foveated rendering, but this pretty specifically says that the eye tracking is only for additional inputs? It says nothing of the sort about having eye based foveated rendering.
The foveated rendering patent mentions Gaze Tracking.

Case closed.
 

nemiroff

Gold Member
I don't think brightness is a big factor on VR

It is. It's because unlike TV panels the panels are running at an unusually low persistence (lowest possible continuous illumination) to avoid motion blur. By doing this the panels will be significantly dimmer than original potential. This of course includes LCD panels as well, and at an even greater impact, hence my loose reference to the relative brightness difference between the technologies.

I'm however not a low level expert in this field, my knowledge has not been updated for a while, hence why I'm curious to what exactly Sony has done here.
 
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RoadHazard

Member
these right here, the downplay is embarrassing at this point. these specs are much better than anyone thought.
eye tracking is a game-changer. hands down


why? what is so special about wireless is not like you will walk around anyway. or you are standing or sitting.

Uh, ever heard of room-scale VR? I guess if you've only used PSVR you haven't, but it's amazing. It's the only "true" VR IMO. And PSVR2 will support it. So yes, you WILL be walking around, turning around 360 degrees, etc, and the wire WILL be an issue. Just having to constantly be aware of it, avoiding getting tangled up, etc, takes you out of the immersion. That problem doesn't exist with wireless VR.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
Did you already look into doing a wireless connection to your PC with your Quest 2. Apparently you can buy a router that can do it for a similar price to the link cable.

Options are one of the best things about Quest 2, so i hope Sony follows their lead. Even if you have to buy extra parts.
Any router from the last probably 10 years will have 5Ghz, you don’t need some special router.
 

SLB1904

Member
Uh, ever heard of room-scale VR? I guess if you've only used PSVR you haven't, but it's amazing. It's the only "true" VR IMO. And PSVR2 will support it. So yes, you WILL be walking around, turning around 360 degrees, etc, and the wire WILL be an issue. Just having to constantly be aware of it, avoiding getting tangled up, etc, takes you out of the immersion. That problem doesn't exist with wireless VR.
yes but those experiences are very focused, some people live in small spaces in fact i would assume most people do. room-scale is fine for pc because pc is a very hardcore fanbase. if you buying a console.

lets look at sim racing for example. you have stupidly expensive high-tech stuff on pc. and then be mad at fanatec for not releasing the new gran Turismo wheel with that 10k tech. Whether we like it or not the console market will always aim for the mainstream. do you think if sony had guaranteed 20million people would buy psvr wireless with bells and whistles for a grand? they would do it. if you look for what it is this is the best you could have asked for.
 
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Kev Kev

Gold Member
Uh, ever heard of room-scale VR? I guess if you've only used PSVR you haven't, but it's amazing. It's the only "true" VR IMO. And PSVR2 will support it. So yes, you WILL be walking around, turning around 360 degrees, etc, and the wire WILL be an issue. Just having to constantly be aware of it, avoiding getting tangled up, etc, takes you out of the immersion. That problem doesn't exist with wireless VR.
why do you believe every game on psvr2 will be standing and moving around? there are tons of games on psvr1 that dont involve standing at all. ive had 1k+ hours of entertainment with sit down games on psvr1.

the wire will continue to be a non issue for me no matter how badly you want it to be an issue for me lol
 

RoadHazard

Member
yes but those experiences are very focused, some people live in small spaces in fact i would assume most people do. room-scale is fine for pc because pc is a very hardcore fanbase. if you buying a console.

lets look at sim racing for example. you have stupidly expensive high-tech stuff on pc. and then be mad at fanatec for not releasing the new gran Turismo wheel with that 10k tech. Whether we like it or not the console market will always aim for the mainstream. do you think if sony had guaranteed 20million people would buy psvr wireless with bells and whistles for a grand? they would do it. if you look for what it is this is the best you could have asked for.

You don't need a huge space for room-scale, around 2x2m is what you need and what most such games are optimized for. So it's not like you're walking very far at any one time, but just being able to walk around a bit and interact with things all around you makes a massive difference for immersion.
 

RoadHazard

Member
why do you believe every game on psvr2 will be standing and moving around? there are tons of games on psvr1 that dont involve standing at all. ive had 1k+ hours of entertainment with sit down games on psvr1.

the wire will continue to be a non issue for me no matter how badly you want it to be an issue for me lol

PSVR1 can't even do 360 degree VR or actual room-scale. If it could, I bet there'd be more such experiences on it, like there are for "proper" VR headsets like the Quest 2 and Index. The PSVR2 can, so the wire will become an issue.

But no, not everything needs to be that, of course. It's just what's (IMO) the most immersive.
 
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GloveSlap

Member
Any router from the last probably 10 years will have 5Ghz, you don’t need some special router.
I thought I read that people were having more luck using a dedicated 6Ghz router if you want it to be smooth. I haven't messed with it though since I need a new GPU first.
 

SLB1904

Member
You don't need a huge space for room-scale, around 2x2m
where do you keep your pc and gaming chair? your sim rig? oh look shelve for my games, trip[le monitors another chair or small couch for when you have people around.
its not feasible dude.
don't get me wrong is a cool ass tech, but lets be realistic you are paying for what you getting
 

RoadHazard

Member
where do you keep your pc and gaming chair? your sim rig? oh look shelve for my games, trip[le monitors another chair or small couch for when you have people around.
its not feasible dude.
don't get me wrong is a cool ass tech, but lets be realistic you are paying for what you getting

I clear out a 2x2m space in my bedroom. I don't have every square meter of my apartment absolutely filled up with stuff, if you do that's your choice.

Yes it can. There are lights on the back of the headset.

It can't track the controllers when they're not in view of the camera, so no, it can't do actual 360 degree VR.
 

R6Rider

Gold Member
It can't track the controllers when they're not in view of the camera, so no, it can't do actual 360 degree VR.
If you have a good setup you can avoid that. So it can indeed, just not as well because of the tracking method.

Nice goalpost move attempt though.
 

RoadHazard

Member
lol annnnnnd were done here. cant debate with someone who just makes shit up

I've made nothing up. Why do you think many PC/Quest VR games that are 360 degrees are limited to 180 degree gameplay on PSVR? Because it can't track the controllers if you are facing away from the camera. It can't do proper 360 degree VR, and that's just a fact.
 

SLB1904

Member
I clear out a 2x2m space in my bedroom. I don't have every square meter of my apartment absolutely filled up with stuff, if you do that's your choice.

but thats the reality of most people.
if you have a family you don't have space. i know I'm lucky i have a gaming room. but that's it. my colleagues from work are playing with children and wife around lol do you think they can ''clear up a room'' lol
 

RoadHazard

Member
If you have a good setup you can avoid that. So it can indeed, just not as well because of the tracking method.

Nice goalpost move attempt though.

It's not made for that though. There's no way to really get consistent 360 degree controller tracking, which is why PSVR games are typically limited to 180 degree gameplay.
 

R6Rider

Gold Member
It's not made for that though. There's no way to really get consistent 360 degree controller tracking, which is why PSVR games are typically limited to 180 degree gameplay.
I never said it was made for full on 360 degree turning. You claimed it couldn't in the most basic term, which is in fact FALSE.

And here you are claiming many games are limited to only 180 degrees on PSVR, which is also FALSE.
 

Kev Kev

Gold Member
I've made nothing up. Why do you think many PC/Quest VR games that are 360 degrees are limited to 180 degree gameplay on PSVR? Because it can't track the controllers if you are facing away from the camera. It can't do proper 360 degree VR, and that's just a fact.
bro you are grasping at a straw with your back against a rope right now.

ive played games where youre standing up, moving around, turning, doing all of that, and it works fine (i just dont care to stand and play video games). they could come up with better tech that makes it work better, sure ill give you that. but it isnt an issue, again no matter how bad you want it to be (for some weird reason???), its really not that big of a deal.
 

kyliethicc

Member
I bet sony later comes out with an adapter for wgig 2 to make it wireless. It probably won't be cheap though.
Headset doesn't have a battery, so nah.

They probably will at some point. PS5's WiFi6 is 9.6Gbps vs USB-C's 10Gbps, so it's within grasp. They will probably reveal that later, since the primary connection is through the USB-C cable.
The USB-C port on the PS5 has DisplayPort alt mode @ 32 Gb/s.
 
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RoadHazard

Member
I never said it was made for full on 360 degree turning. You claimed it couldn't in the most basic term, which is in fact FALSE.

And here you are claiming many games are limited to only 180 degrees on PSVR, which is also FALSE.

If it can't do "full 360 degree turning" (with full controller tracking) it can't do 360 degree VR. That's pretty simple to understand.
 

RoadHazard

Member
bro you are grasping at a straw with your back against a rope right now.

ive played games where youre standing up, moving around, turning, doing all of that, and it works fine (i just dont care to stand and play video games). they could come up with better tech that makes it work better, sure ill give you that. but it isnt an issue, again no matter how bad you want it to be (for some weird reason???), its really not that big of a deal.

So you're saying you could turn around so you're facing away from the camera, reach for something on the ground in front of you, and the controllers can still be properly tracked? That seems impossible unless your body is see-through. Just being able to detect that your head is turned 180 degrees isn't enough for actual 360 degree VR, controller tracking in any orientation is essential. Which the PSVR2 will thankfully be capable of thanks to inside-out tracking.

I don't know why you guys are so fiercely defending (even denying) a well known limitation of how PSVR works. A limitation the new one will thankfully not have. BUT it will still have a wire, which is less than optimal for proper 360 degree gameplay. That's my entire point.
 
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I’ve seen people say that it’s “confirmed” to have eye tracking based foveated rendering, but this pretty specifically says that the eye tracking is only for additional inputs? It says nothing of the sort about having eye based foveated rendering.

There's no such thing as foveated rendering that doesn't rely on eye-tracking.

What are you even talking about?
 

Kev Kev

Gold Member
So you're saying you could turn around so you're facing away from the camera, reach for something on the ground in front of you, and the controllers can still be properly tracked?
you have three people telling you that from their personal experience it worked fine. what more do you want?

and all of us have said, it was a little off feeling sometime, but i didnt have any major issues, no. the lights from the controller and headset shine very bright in a dark room and the camera was able to pick that up and figure out where my head and hands were.

why do so badly want this to be an issue? its really strange.

and again, most games i played on psvr1 were sitting down with a controller. i imagine a lot of other psvr users did the same, sony saw that, and now they are focusing more on that. VR is not mainly about standing in a room and moving around. thats cool that you enjoy that, but a lot of us dont want to do that at all. but even then, it wasnt a big deal with psvr1, and itll work even better on psvr2.
 

RoadHazard

Member
eh?
didn't i just say psvr sucks?
why are you bringing psvr up in this discussion? of course they psvr2 will work differently than psvr

Uh, everything I've said has been about the original and whether or not it can do proper 360 degree VR. Of course PSVR2 can. I'm confused, lol.
 

RoadHazard

Member
you have three people telling you that from their personal experience it worked fine. what more do you want?

and all of us have said, it was a little off feeling sometime, but i didnt have any major issues, no. the lights from the controller and headset shine very bright in a dark room and the camera was able to pick that up and figure out where my head and hands were.

why do so badly want this to be an issue? its really strange.

and again, most games i played on psvr1 were sitting down with a controller. i imagine a lot of other psvr users did the same, sony saw that, and now they are focusing more on that. VR is not mainly about standing in a room and moving around. thats cool that you enjoy that, but a lot of us dont want to do that at all. but even then, it wasnt a big deal with psvr1, and itll work even better on psvr2.

I mean, it's a simple fact that for example Beat Saber on PSVR lacks the 360 mode it has on Quest etc. That's not because they hate PlayStation gamers, it's because with the typical camera setup the controllers just can't be tracked properly if you're facing in the other direction. Maybe it's technically possible with a very particular camera setup (that probably isn't realistically achievable for most people), but the PSVR just wasn't made for that with its single camera tracking solution.
 

SLB1904

Member
I mean, it's a simple fact that for example Beat Saber on PSVR lacks the 360 mode it has on Quest etc. That's not because they hate PlayStation gamers, it's because with the typical camera setup the controllers just can't be tracked properly if you're facing in the other direction. Maybe it's technically possible with a very particular camera setup (that probably isn't realistically achievable for most people), but the PSVR just wasn't made for that with its single camera tracking solution.
you arent wrong. the camera set up would track the headset 360, but due to dildos its impossible to have things happen behind you
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Yes there is. It's called Fixed Foveated Rendering.

Oculus even has a page about it:


Pretty sure RE7 on PSVR uses it too.
Yes, but they did not say "fixed foveated rendering" they said "foveated rendering".

The less sophisticated is literary called "fixed". Going by their patent as well, I doubt they're going to have you look at a blurry ass input with your eyes due to it only being fixed, especially when they are talking about eye tracking as highlights all in the same PR release.

This is going to be just like the "not hardware RT" and "no VRS" thing until they show it off. Le sigh.
It's glorified Variable Rate Shading.
Basically, lol.
 
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DemonGamerTTT

Neo Member
A lot of people says that there's no lag when streaming from PC to Quest 2, but I that's no true there is some lag but is minor and basically 99% of the games are playable.

But if you're used to play extremely fast games you Will notice the difference between wired and wireless, especially if you play expert + on Beat Saber... The lag is most visible in the vibration and in the motion of the "sabers".

But like I said the lag is more noticeable for people used to play games that REALLY require low latency.
 

SLB1904

Member
Yes, but they did not say "fixed foveated rendering" they said "foveated rendering".

The less sophisticated is literary called "fixed". Going by their patent as well, I doubt they're going to have you look at a blurry ass input with your eyes due to it only being fixed, especially when they are talking about eye tracking as highlights all in the same PR release.

This is going to be just like the "not hardware RT" and "no VRS" thing until they show it off. Le sigh.

Basically, lol.
why even call eye tracking?
 

RoadHazard

Member
Lol yes there is. The Quest has Fixed Foveated Rendering, without eye tracking.


To be fair, the Oculus solution literally just means "render the corners of the screen at a lower resolution". It's a solution that works for giving the weak Quest hardware some extra headroom for rendering where you're typically looking, but even calling it "foveated" is a bit misleading. And it's very noticeable once you've noticed it (in fact I think it's impossible NOT to notice it). It doesn't detract too much from the experience, but having it be based on where you're actually looking will be far superior.
 
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