Sony doesn't expect PlayStation 6 before 2027, confidential document suggests

vivftp

Member
Jim said that almost 6 years ago.
That was reasoning behind the Pro and there is nothing that indicates it improved the dip.
In fact we know it didn't, regardless of what their PR says we know it didn't do what they expected, it barley affected sales.
A few people gave a shit( I was one of them)
but it didn't boost sales.
And 6 years later they are porting to PC.
why would they care if a PS5 owner decides to jump to PC later?
They still selling games to them in the end.
So no, I'm the opposite of short sighted.

But let's say Sony & MS like wasting money.
When do you expect the Midgen Consoles come out to help boost games that currently don't exist yet.
And how do you market it.
Things you can't use to market it because the PS5 already does it are.
- 4k
- HDR
- 60fps
- 120fps
- Ray-tracing
- Fast Loading/Zero Loading.

It's a hard sell when the current model hasn't delivered what it can do outside cross gen games

Again, we have no idea what their target goals were for the PS4 Pro so there's no way to say if it was a disappointment to them or if it met their expectations. As for why they would care if a PS5 owner jumps to PC, the answer is money. Every time a SIE published game sells on Steam or EGS, those companies take their cut of the sale. Every time Sony sells a SIE published game on PlayStation, they get 100% of the revenue. Not to mention Sony gets a 30% cut of all games sold on PSN and revenue from microtransactions and whatnot which is a HUGE amount of their revenue. They have every reason to want to keep folks invested in their ecosystem. Then on top of that keeping folks in their console ecosystem gives them a chance to earn subscription money from them. It's a 'have your cake and eat it too' situation where they can cater to the PC crowd who would never give them a cent to begin with, and still cater to the console audience who wants a low cost entry into the ecosystem (base PS5) and a higher end solution on par with PC (PS5 Pro)

As for selling points...

- Double the storage to 1650 GB
- Rock solid 60 FPS or 120 FPS on all games, which the base PS5 is unable to guarantee for every game
- All PSVR2 games at 120 FPS instead of having some at 90 FPS or reprojected 60
- Not having to choose between performance and quality modes, you can get both at the same time
- They could bundle a DualSense Edge with the PS5 Pro, to emphasize the Pro aspect of the console
- Not to mention the precedent is already there with the PS4 Pro and gamers know what to expect. Anyone buying a PS5 Pro knows they're buying it for better performance. The less informed people who don't know all the differences are the folk who would likely just end up getting a base PS5

As for it being a hard sell, context matters. You can't take the current situation and project that to two or three years from now when a Pro console would be launched. Obviously things will be very different at that point in time and many dozens of current gen games will have launched
 
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James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
The question goes both ways.
Is there evidence that the Pro Consoles was successful?
We know the PS4 Slim sold more by a wide margin, I can't comment on the Xbox One X.
but overall we know they didn't fly off the shelves like Nintendo's upgraded hardware revisions.

Pro versions don’t need to sell the most in order to be worthwhile

There’s a premium market that exists for them and can help extend excitement into the second half of a console lifecycle
 
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vivftp

Member
Until we start seeing some market penetration of 8k displays, I wouldn't expect a pro console.

8k doesn't have to be a talking point of a Pro console. Gamers know what Pro consoles are now and what to expect out of them. Simply marketing them as the best way to play these games on console is enough.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
100% there is a premium market and even talking to some of my friends they would spend more than $500 on a premium console
I would. I'd sell what I have and pay more for more powerful Xbox and PS5 consoles if it meant that there would be fewer compromises when it comes to performance vs. fidelity. It feels somewhat absurd to me that we have to choose between them and praise 40 FPS as some massive game changing compromise.
 

rofif

Member
I'm afraid ps6 will be digital only. I don't know if I should continue buying physical games or start switching to Digital...
I like collecting physical games. This is a big part of console gaming for me. I even rebuy physical games on ps5 that I own on ps4 (like uncharted and so on) but If that going to be useless on ps6....
I wish we already knew so I wouldn't waste money
 
I expect Sony to have the same hardware release cadence as last gen since PS4 pro was a huge success for them I wouldn't be surprised to see PS5 pro next fall accompanying Spider-Man 2 then finally cut off last generation. I'm not angry at the thought of playing RTGI games at 60 or having a 120hz option with barely any drops on every first party game. The Witcher 3 update is a reminder for me that although these systems are extremely powerful for the most part but they just aren't ready for raytracing at higher frames.
 

ANIMAL1975

Member

Sony doesn't expect PlayStation 6 before 2027, confidential document suggests​


Sony does not expect its next-generation PlayStation to arrive until at least 2027, a confidential document has suggested.

The partially-redacted document was released publicly today as part of the UK's ongoing in-depth Competition and Markets Authority review into Microsoft's proposed $68bn Activision Blizzard buyout - a deal Sony has strongly objected to.

In an intriguing passage discussing the length of time Call of Duty may remain on PlayStation, Sony claims that (at the time of writing) it expected to lose access to the franchise in 2027. Sony then goes on to state that by the time it "launched the next generation of its PlayStation console... it would have lost access to Call of Duty and other Activision titles".


Putting aside the possibility of whether Sony would actually lose access to Call of Duty (something Xbox boss Phil Spencer has recently repeatedly denied) the suggestion here from Sony is that the PlayStation 6 will not launch until after its feared 2027 COD cut-off date.

That puts PS5, which originally launched in November 2020, on at least a seven-year lifecycle - and potentially longer.


In the document, Sony states its concern that the loss of COD in 2027 would leave PlayStation "extremely vulnerable to consumer switching and subsequent degradation in its competitiveness" - presumably for when the subsequent console generation arrived.

"PlayStation 6 in 2028?" industry analyst Piers Harding-Rolls wrote on Twitter.

A redacted section of this passage does note the actual year Sony expects PS6 to materialise - although the public version of this has it blanked out.

To compare, PS4 launched in November 2013,
exactly seven years before PS5 - though the console remains well-supported today.

For its part, Microsoft has claimed it is keen to keep Call of Duty on PlayStation longer than 2027. Last month, Xbox boss Phil Spencer said he was keen to keep releasing COD on Sony platforms "as long as there's a PlayStation out there to ship to".


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Next gen seems like it hasn't started yet for me and this sweet little country planted by the sea called Portugal. Maybe when there are ps5s in stores when you walk in we can feel that way.


Or foke it and give us the slim and the pro right now!
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
I'm afraid ps6 will be digital only. I don't know if I should continue buying physical games or start switching to Digital...
I like collecting physical games. This is a big part of console gaming for me. I even rebuy physical games on ps5 that I own on ps4 (like uncharted and so on) but If that going to be useless on ps6....
I wish we already knew so I wouldn't waste money
I like the sounds of the PS5 refresh having a detachable disk drive so they only need one sku and hope they keep this idea for the PS6 as I too still use physical disks
 
Hopefully late 2024 at the earliest. We'll still be getting getting cross Gen games next year for Christ's sake!

So I find a Pro pointless when we'll be getting true ps5 games which will see a big jump over what we get now.

But maybe the logic is instead of playing that game at 60fps 4k you'll play it at 120fps or 100fps with vrr thanks to the Pro.
A pro could fix the bandwidth limitations of the ps5 as well
 
Ooof. That would be a hot in the fit as I am going hard physical this gen.
It’s the first time I am financially somewhat capable. Looks like I was born too late and will probably end up re buying these games in psn
If it’s true then the ps5 pro will certainly be my last console I would have 0 reason not to go to pc at that point or drop gaming on new games all together
 

hussar16

Member
Im more amazed that's sony thinks cod Wil stil be very relevant by 2027.if anything they should invest in their own shooter
 

Kokoloko85

Member
Hmmm 2027 latest.

I think we will see a PS6 2026 or 2025. 2025 Especially if we don’t get a PS5 Pro. Pretty sure Jim Ryan said they want a shorter generation this time around, and 2025 was mentioned.
 

yurinka

Member
Hmmm 2027 latest.

I think we will see a PS6 2026 or 2025. 2025 Especially if we don’t get a PS5 Pro. Pretty sure Jim Ryan said they want a shorter generation this time around, and 2025 was mentioned.
PS are released every 7 years, meaning a late 2027 would be what we should expect and what would match with the suggested in the documents for regulators.

Due to chips shortages, covid lockdowns and PS4 engagement being higher than usual on its last years this generation started slower than was possible but still is breaking records. Fast SSDs allow several new paradigm shifts in game development meaning that to take full advantage of this gen hardware will take longer than usual.

So if something, this generation would be longer than usual, not shorter.

Jim Ryan never mentioned that wants a shorter generation and never mentioned or hinted 2025 for the next console. The most similar thing Sony mentioned is that hinted in the regulators documents a late 2027 or early 2028 release.
 

OuterLimits

Member
The Pro consoles last gen made more sense than currently. Both the Xbox and PS4 were not super impressive even at launch.

I quickly upgraded to the PS4Pro soon after it launched but kind of regretted the purchase as time went on. Overall it ended up being somewhat of a disappointment and once sales seemed lackluster even Sony sometimes ignored it existed with their own software library. Perhaps if I owned a PSVR my opinion would have been more positive though.

Plus we are still in cross gen hell unlike last gen when for many reasons it was much easier for Sony and 3rd party publishers to move on from PS3 rather quickly.
 

Kokoloko85

Member
PS are released every 7 years, meaning a late 2027 would be what we should expect and what would match with the suggested in the documents for regulators.

Due to chips shortages, covid lockdowns and PS4 engagement being higher than usual on its last years this generation started slower than was possible but still is breaking records. Fast SSDs allow several new paradigm shifts in game development meaning that to take full advantage of this gen hardware will take longer than usual.

So if something, this generation would be longer than usual, not shorter.

Jim Ryan never mentioned that wants a shorter generation and never mentioned or hinted 2025 for the next console. The most similar thing Sony mentioned is that hinted in the regulators documents a late 2027 or early 2028 release.

Ah, it wasn’t jim ryan, just an article I read: https://www.thegamer.com/sony-ps5-lifespan-short-5-years/

I doubt it would be longer than 7 years. They would need A pro model for sure
 
Oh my god. It wasn't so long ago that PS4 to PS5 just happened and now even that date feels short even though it's around the same timeframe.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
- Rock solid 60 FPS or 120 FPS on all games, which the base PS5 is unable to guarantee for every game
- All PSVR2 games at 120 FPS instead of having some at 90 FPS or reprojected 60
- Not having to choose between performance and quality modes, you can get both at the same time
This sounds like a massive console (very power hungry) and a big price bump over the current PS5 to get to those targets via pure bruteforcing... I do not expect developers to do much optimisation for pro consoles (if they release them) beyond what they can easily bruteforce with a few interns over a few weeks or so. Just like it happened for Xbox One X and PS4 Pro.

I do not get tired to repeat it... manufacturing process improvements rate is both slowing down and designing and manufacturing new chips using the new advanced processes is getting more and more expensive. Also, it takes greater and greater performance jumps to show visible user benefits.
Releasing more HW more often is not the answer to this... console owners now getting even bigger boxes and raising prices by $200-300 is also not the answer.

It also takes money to design, manufacture, market, etc... these pro consoles which would be better spent preparing the next generation HW and launch games and giving devs more times with the HW. This is what the console model is about and it still works.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
100% there is a premium market and even talking to some of my friends they would spend more than $500 on a premium console
RoI to cater to those people but without an Apple like following and Apple like prices... I do not see it working well. To get what though? iPhone 11 --> iPhone 12 --> iPhone 13 --> iPhone 14 performance improvements and developers not tapping into it?
 
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Raven77

Member
When games barely take advantage of what the current gen consoles can do, why do so many want a mid gen refresh???

Like, you'll buy it and it will hardly have any games that take great advantage of it's power.

By the time we get a mid gen refresh you really want developers having to make games that not only support the Series S but now a newer even more powerful console than the PS5/X?

Any mid gen refresh will be a money grab.
 

NickFire

Member
When games barely take advantage of what the current gen consoles can do, why do so many want a mid gen refresh???

Like, you'll buy it and it will hardly have any games that take great advantage of it's power.

By the time we get a mid gen refresh you really want developers having to make games that not only support the Series S but now a newer even more powerful console than the PS5/X?

Any mid gen refresh will be a money grab.
I think the general hope would be the merging of performance and fidelity modes.
 

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
PS6 doesn't need to do much more than being a PS5 with 60+fps and full ray tracing. RT improves games so much it would be a worthwhile upgrade.

Yeah Full RT would be a massive jump over current gen with the same graphics settings. Maybe more RT hardware acceleration. But more TF won't hurt.
 

Raven77

Member
I think the general hope would be the merging of performance and fidelity modes.

On paper maybe, but this gen has already shown us a reluctance from developers to really push this new hardware.

That's why I feel strongly a mid gen refresh is not only mostly pointless but also a money grab.

In addition to that, anyone excited about the ps6 or next Xbox would want to temper their expectations. A mid-gen refresh could simply become the current PS4/xbox situation where 3 years into the next gen they are still making games for the current mid gen refresh...
 

yurinka

Member
Ah, it wasn’t jim ryan, just an article I read: https://www.thegamer.com/sony-ps5-lifespan-short-5-years/

I doubt it would be longer than 7 years. They would need A pro model for sure
In the document sent to regulators they indirectly mentioned the traditional 7 years or so release cycle. Basically said that if a fall 2027 released CoD would be the last one it would be just before the release of their next console.

If MS extends it for 10 years instead of then, seven years more would cover the PS5 and the PS6 cycles, it would be just before a hypothetical PS7 release.

I think they won't release a Pro model at all. Because PS5 will be breaking gaming history records, they'll need their manufacturing and chips for the normal PS5 and PSVR2, pretty likely will be hard to get new ones and components pricing/inflation/shipments/etc are expected to continue rising and the base console already is almost too expensive for many people. Plus in the 2nd half of the generation we'll see the first games really taking advantage of the new hardware, so will feel like a bump in visuals.
 
Again, we have no idea what their target goals were for the PS4 Pro so there's no way to say if it was a disappointment to them or if it met their expectations. As for why they would care if a PS5 owner jumps to PC, the answer is money. Every time a SIE published game sells on Steam or EGS, those companies take their cut of the sale. Every time Sony sells a SIE published game on PlayStation, they get 100% of the revenue. Not to mention Sony gets a 30% cut of all games sold on PSN and revenue from microtransactions and whatnot which is a HUGE amount of their revenue. They have every reason to want to keep folks invested in their ecosystem. Then on top of that keeping folks in their console ecosystem gives them a chance to earn subscription money from them. It's a 'have your cake and eat it too' situation where they can cater to the PC crowd who would never give them a cent to begin with, and still cater to the console audience who wants a low cost entry into the ecosystem (base PS5) and a higher end solution on par with PC (PS5 Pro)

As for selling points...

- Double the storage to 1650 GB
- Rock solid 60 FPS or 120 FPS on all games, which the base PS5 is unable to guarantee for every game
- All PSVR2 games at 120 FPS instead of having some at 90 FPS or reprojected 60
- Not having to choose between performance and quality modes, you can get both at the same time
- They could bundle a DualSense Edge with the PS5 Pro, to emphasize the Pro aspect of the console
- Not to mention the precedent is already there with the PS4 Pro and gamers know what to expect. Anyone buying a PS5 Pro knows they're buying it for better performance. The less informed people who don't know all the differences are the folk who would likely just end up getting a base PS5

As for it being a hard sell, context matters. You can't take the current situation and project that to two or three years from now when a Pro console would be launched. Obviously things will be very different at that point in time and many dozens of current gen games will have launched

Thanks to RDNA3 having dual-issue shader units, Sony could technically make a PS5 Pro that doubles the TF while still consisting of the same 2,304 shader cores. Meaning they can make more units in total and deal less with congestion of their wafer pipeline through AMD and TSMC since a Pro would not be consisting of a (too much) physically larger chip.

So a Pro with 2304 shader cores in dual-issue mode, maybe a slightly higher clock and, hopefully, chipletized ROPs and TMUs (dunno if RDNA3 has this; RDNA4 should however) so they can also increase pixel and texture fillrates. Then continue with base PS5 production, same 2304 shader cores but in single-issue mode, base PS5 clock, base PS5 ROP & TMU setup/count etc.

Other aspects of a PS5 Pro would still need to incur additional production costs, such as the cooling, RAM (I think the capacity stays the same but the bandwidth increases by upwards 50%), SSD etc. But architecture changes for RDNA3 & RDNA4 (the latter being what a PS5 Pro would probably be based on) actually help keeping production costs under control since they can effectively double TF performance on the same shader count (even if they would need to do other things like higher clocks & more ROPs & TMUs to get other gains like triangle culling/rasterization, pixel & texture fillrate, faster caches etc.).
 
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