Lognor
Banned
Ps5 and xsx will hit that wall as well. All in time. Whether the series s hits it significantly earlier, we'll see. But I tend to doubt it
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Yeah. The key term is "significantly". Because we know it'll hit it earlier. I'm really curious how much some gamers truly care about 60fps and things like raytracing. Because those may be the places that take the first hit on the Series S. And do those gamers honestly realize what they bought in 2021 and 2022? Or did they really never care about that stuff, hence the Series S purchase in the first place.
yurinka
Member
I think this fiscal year we'll see:
Sofware sales generate way more revenue to Sony, MS and MS than game subs.
Sony game division generates way more money than the MS one primarly because has way more software sales, and that happens because Sony has way more console sales and a higher active userbase than MS.
Sony game division has billions of profits every year while the MS one instead a has billions of loses.
Sony has no reason to change their stance.
- Higher 1st party sales revenue (due to horizon 2, gt7, gowr, tlou stuff, pc ports...)
- Higher 3rd party sales revenue (howgarts legacy, ffxvi, many big multi games...)
- Higher game subs revenue (due to Spartacus: subbers increase + people migrating to higher subs + people stacking)
- Higher VR revenue (PSVR2 release)
- Release of Spartacus, later PS5 games added to cloud gaming, cloud gaming expanded to mobile and tv, Discord integrated in PSN chats and image/video share, PS5 Tournaments feature
- Acquisition of a Japanese publisher, a VR focused studio who already worked for them, a 2nd party studio and a porting or outsourcing team
- Announcement of (every game announced maximum a year and a half before its release):
- Bungie new IP (Destiny + Fornite + GTA Online + MP focused hero shooter in a new setting)
- Firewalk's new IP (MP focused GaaS shooter with narrative)
- TLOU MP game
- TLOU PS5 remake+TLOU2 PS5 version director's cut bundle (PC port announced for half a year after PS5 release)
- Arrowhead game (Helldivers 2?)
- FFVII Remake Episode 2
- Bloodborne Refurbished (PS5 version with improvements and exta content, PC port announced for half a year later)
- Kojima's next project, with Sony as partner again (might not be a game, but other thing instead like a movie or short film)
Sony's game subs make more money than the MS ones.
Sofware sales generate way more revenue to Sony, MS and MS than game subs.
Sony game division generates way more money than the MS one primarly because has way more software sales, and that happens because Sony has way more console sales and a higher active userbase than MS.
Sony game division has billions of profits every year while the MS one instead a has billions of loses.
Sony has no reason to change their stance.
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Varteras
Gold Member
Square Enix, Polyarc, Deviation, and White Moon Dreams if I had to guess based on those criteria
Bernd Lauert
Banned
No need to spread misinformation.
jhjfss
Member
Show me proof.
dcmk7
Banned
Seems unnecessarily rude.
Rather ironically you've been banned for console warring multiple times.
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yurinka
Member
Wtf are you talking about?
In the recent years MS game division acquired many studios for almost $100B (still didn't pay the $68.7B for ABK because still not closed) and they made around $15B/year in revenue. Even if they would work for free and wouldn't have to buy hardware, licenses, internet, patents, etc for their offices and servers all that revenue would be profit (which obviously isn't the case at all) they would need many years to recoup that and turn it into profit.
And this is not counting costs from paying 3rd parties to put their titles on gamepass or almost giving away most sales of their AAA titles which between development and marketing cost hundreds of years each one.
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I don't think you understand finances.
Spending money on an asset isn't the same as making a loss. You make the loss if and when you try to sell the asset but you get less for the asset then you paid for it.
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yurinka
Member
Lol, I didn't say to pay for something is a loss, I said it's a cost.
No.
A given year you have revenue (like game sales or monthly payments of a sub) and costs (like to pay acquisitions, pay for server costs, pay gamedevs or marketing campaigns).
If revenue is bigger than costs, you have profit for that year. If instead you have bigger costs, you have loses for that year.
If a year you have 10M of costs and 4M of revenue you have 6M of loses.
A separate thing is to consider if an investment has been profitable or not: it typically has big cost and (assuming it's a profitable company that posts profits every year) later slowly generates revenue until years later it generated enough to have recouped the investment and from that point generates profits. In the case you sell it, that money would be added on top with the revenues it generated to decide if the investment has been profitable or not.
But I wasn't talking about if the investments they did acquiring each company will be profitable or not in the long term (different topic), I was talking during the current years of the MS game division was having a profit or a loss due to their GP+acquisitions focused strategy.
onesvenus
Member
So you are giving him the reason. You don't know anything about finances.
Assets are not accounted as a loss.
yurinka
Member
No, I'm telling him and you that I'm not talking about assets. I'm talking about profit or loses of a game division.
If you pay a transaction in cash this is a cost and if you pay tthat team their salaries, electricity bills, licenses, marketing of their game etc etc these are costs too.
And if for a specific year your costs are way higher than your revenue you have loses in that division for that year.
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jhjfss
Member
You just need to stop regurgitating nonsense about Xbox running at a loss. I asked you simple proof to back up your statement and you have been unable to do so.
I don't need you to explain or speculate why Xbox might be running at a loss and provide me ACTUAL financial documents like the one below. IF you are unable to do so, please stop spreading Bullshit.
3liteDragon
Member
Stop acting like one. I made a prediction & I'll say it again, it'll be a 2:1 margin or higher by the end of this gen. Cope & seethe.
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
You're wrong bro, just take the L.
Baki
Member
Just to add to his point. When you’re buying a company (an asset), it’s not an expense, it’s an investment. What they’re doing is taking cash and converting it into “shares” in a new company they own. It’s like when I buy $500 worth of shares in a company, its not an expense, I’ve just turned my $500 into $500 worth of stock instead. Now when that company increases in value, I can actually book that as a profit (and when it decreases in value I book that as losses)!
1. Jim Ryan era accounts for 48% of PlayStation operating income (FY95 – FY21)
2. Jim Ryan era: Record operating income in transition years
PS5
PS4
PS3
PS2
3. PlayStation CEO has no margin for error
June 2007
360 11.6M
PS3 4.2M
Ken Kutaragi, Chairman and Group CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc., will retire from his executive position at SCEI effective June 19, 2007.
4. PlayStation is Sony's cash cow
5. Invested capital: Kenichiro Yoshida is the biggest threat to PlayStation
Kenichiro Yoshida says PlayStation 5 is a niche product for hardcore players
6. FY22: PlayStation will “outsell” Music and Pictures 3 to 1
7. Sony M&A: Music and Pictures, two underperforming segments, keep on dominating
(2018) Sony completes $2.3bn deal to acquire EMI Music Publishing
8. M&A: Microsoft, Tencent, Take Two, Embracer and EA are vastly outspending PlayStation
Take-Two buys Zynga for $12.7B
2. Jim Ryan era: Record operating income in transition years
PS5
PS4
PS3
PS2
3. PlayStation CEO has no margin for error
June 2007
360 11.6M
PS3 4.2M
Ken Kutaragi, Chairman and Group CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc., will retire from his executive position at SCEI effective June 19, 2007.
4. PlayStation is Sony's cash cow
5. Invested capital: Kenichiro Yoshida is the biggest threat to PlayStation
Kenichiro Yoshida says PlayStation 5 is a niche product for hardcore players
6. FY22: PlayStation will “outsell” Music and Pictures 3 to 1
7. Sony M&A: Music and Pictures, two underperforming segments, keep on dominating
(2018) Sony completes $2.3bn deal to acquire EMI Music Publishing
8. M&A: Microsoft, Tencent, Take Two, Embracer and EA are vastly outspending PlayStation
Take-Two buys Zynga for $12.7B
sachos
Member
Yeah, from what i've read big AAA games, especially single player campaigns, are way more evenly split physical/digital. It would be interesting to see the yearly split taking into account only games that have both physical and digital releases, but i guess we will never see that info.Basically, physical sales fluctuates more. Digital sales are more even year round.
PS5 launch was a big quarter for physical. Quarter after that was very low.
Physical game sales spike every year from Oct-Dec. Christmas season, etc.
yurinka
Member
Go fuck yourself in your fantasy world
Bernd Lauert
Banned
No need to antagonize. Facts are facts.
yurinka
Member
True, it would be good for you to accept facts
jm89
Member
Hardware numbers will be interesting. May give us an idea if they can really reach that 18m they are predicting this fy.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Tbh the fall trimester is always the best one. I could see Sony shipping around 7M or more just this current trimester.
prinz_valium
Member
All of them.
Physiognomonics
Member
First party software sales are going to be interesting. Is their PC strategy really working?
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
They had TLOU Remake release, they had Spider-Man PC release (which is probably their biggest PC release ever), hardware sales will have quite the bump, etc...
Overall it could be a decent quarter for them. But nothing like the next one.
HYDE
Banned
…and PS3 era.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
- Hardware (because Sony has been super aggressive, and I think the next 2 quarters will be huge for PS)
- First-party software sales
- PS5 software sales
- PS+ numbers / revenue ratio (so we can see if the Extra/Premium membership brought any additional revenue and how much)
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
I'm also curious on PS Plus numbers and revenue after the revamp. I'm sure some changes happened with this, plus the PS5 stock increase.
If you can extrapolate any loss in software sales due to increase in subscription to PS+ Extra and Premium.
My hypothesis is that an increase in all-you-can-play subscription service will correlate in a decrease in over-all software sales.
But I suppose that would be hard to infer considering that console sales is still at its growth phase.
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Definitely will be interesting to see if the Arpu related to subscription has increased
Main
- PS5 Units (Last year was 3.3m)
- Hardware (Last year was 160,635m yen)
- First-party software sales (7.6m last year; lowest of the year)
- PS5 software sales (Don't split by platform sadly)
- PS+ numbers / revenue ratio (Last year was 47.2m and 100,444m yen so ARPU roughly ~797 yen per month per user(???))
- OI margin (Last year was 12.8%)
- Shift in sales to customers* (US was 27% last year, Q1 was 30%)
Others
- Game sales info
- Investment update
- Any indication of PSVR release date (suspect wont get anything)
*USD obviously did make a difference
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All tech companies reported not really good results because of post pandemic downward demand and inflation and weak currencies impacting profits.
It's unlikely Sony is going to escape from that but it will be interesting to see how hardware sales are going compared to their targets.
It's unlikely Sony is going to escape from that but it will be interesting to see how hardware sales are going compared to their targets.
Luminoth-4545
Member
The earnings report is a few hours away right? I'm going with 3.2 million PS5 shipped for the quarter.
Yeah, like 5 hrs
vivftp
Member
Sony has a projection of 18 million PS5's this FY. In Q1 of this year they only shipped 2.4 million units as they were very heavily supply constrained. Since July they've had noticeably larger quantities of units available. I'm gonna guess it'll be a lot higher, more like 4.5 to 5 million. That'll let them aim for several million units during the holiday period and covering Ragnaroks launch.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I'm super curious on Sony's PS5 output to see if they are hitting their targets and their PSN numbers. Is PS+ Premium helping or not doing anything at all?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
What is OI margin? What does that mean?
Luminoth-4545
Member
That is extremely outlandish, PS5 would have to easily beat the competition in NA & EU and be competive in Japan and from the data we do have that is not the case, PS5 won August and September NPD, in Europe It Won in the Uk but has been losing to Switch in Continental Europe and it Gets destroyed by Switch In Japan,. When Switch was selling 5 million in a regular non-holiday quarter we got press releases saying things like "best August for hardware units since 2008" etc but we didn't hear that from Sony. From PS4 data we know the highest PS4 ever sold in a non holiday quarter was 4.2 million so selling 5 million is truly exceptional and Sales would have to be record breaking to sell that much, not record breaking for unit sales for NPD but definately dollar sales because of the much higher price for the PS5 over the Wii, DS, Switch.
Cost of operations is separate from investments. Saying a company "made a loss" because it purchased a company that generates additional revenue is nonsense. Cash on a balance sheet is converted into an equivalent amount of assets. Go read up on financial statements and you'll see that investments are separated from expenses related to running a business.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Earnings reports have replaced the PlayStation Showcase. Who else is calling off work tomorrow?
vivftp
Member
yurinka
Member
Costs are costs and losses are losses even if there are different types of them, or if they can be placed in different sides. But at the end investments and acquisitions affect the profits or loses of the year.
It isn't nonsense, it's a fact reflected in the financial statements of companies who unlike MS are transparent and where you can clearly see how the payment for acquisitions highly impact their profits and loses.
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vivftp
Member
See? We were both wrong. You said 3.2, I said 4.5-5... and the actual figure was 3.3. I think we we can both agree that I was closer, and therefore I take the win on this prediction.
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Luminoth-4545
Member
lolSee? We were both wrong. You said 3.2, I said 4.5-5... and the actual figure was 3.3. I think we we can both agree that I was closer, and therefore I take the win on this prediction.
...
vivftp
Member
Well also look at it this way. Apparently they actually produced 6.5 million units this quarter, but only opted to sell 3.3 million. Supposedly so they could have a buttload of bundles ready for God of War and Call of Duty. So that at least tells us that their production pipeline has improved significantly, enough so that they're apparently going to revise their 18 million projected figure upwards.
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