The Alien
Banned
Agree. Was it really an "acquisition" or did Sony just want it to be called that?
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Sony Group has $5.1 billion to spend on investments/acquisitions until 2024
- Thread starter James Sawyer Ford
- Start date
Raven77
Member
5.1 billion and people were saying T2 was an option?
Good though, focus on "small" gaming stuff like devs purchases or fund/create new groups that can develop games that expand their genres, I only care about that tbh
That's not how it works.
The 5 billion is what they have immediately available. They could likely get access to another 10-15 billion if needed...maybe more.
Yeah, read it on this thread, like I said, prefer the way they operate by buying devs who worked with them before and/or creating/funding new studios, just need to make sure to expand their genre library and they're set
$5.1 billion is their operating cash flow forecast in FY23, the funds that Sony uses to acquire companies (M&A) , mantain capital assets (CapEX), buyback programs and keep good credit ratings.
They could spend more if an opportunity arises (Sony net long term debt is $-1.4 bn)
Having said that, PlayStation (SIE) doesn't need Sony's help to consolidate the industry in Japan or Europe, only its approval.
Problem here is that Pictures and Music, especially, live off PlayStation cash flows.
Sony: Invested capital (LTD)
Music + Pictures 2 trillion yen
Game 500 billion yen (before Bungie)
Sony internal politics could change soon, though.
Enterprise Value
Capcom $6.2 bn
Koei Tecmo $5.8 bn
Square Enix $4.1 bn
Ubisoft $3.5 bn
Sega Sammy $3.3 bn
CD Projekt $2.7 bn
Kadokawa $1.6 bn
They could spend more if an opportunity arises (Sony net long term debt is $-1.4 bn)
Having said that, PlayStation (SIE) doesn't need Sony's help to consolidate the industry in Japan or Europe, only its approval.
Problem here is that Pictures and Music, especially, live off PlayStation cash flows.
Sony: Invested capital (LTD)
Music + Pictures 2 trillion yen
Game 500 billion yen (before Bungie)
Sony internal politics could change soon, though.
Enterprise Value
Capcom $6.2 bn
Koei Tecmo $5.8 bn
Square Enix $4.1 bn
Ubisoft $3.5 bn
Sega Sammy $3.3 bn
CD Projekt $2.7 bn
Kadokawa $1.6 bn
Buggy Loop
Member
No way Meta let go the dev behind Lone Echo
Varteras
Gold Member
I mean seeing as how poorly that whole thing is doing right now, I don't think they even have enough sense of what a good product is to know that Ready at Dawn made a good VR game.
I do like the idea that Sony is sitting on a 24bn acquisition of a publicly traded company for a year or two but yeah, feels like a stretch. Did they (Sony) buy T2 before or after the Zynga deal closed in 'this world'?
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Varteras
Gold Member
Yes.
They killed or are killing Lone Echo, but don't think they will sell the studio outright
Thirty7ven
Banned
PlayStation has been a cash cow for Sony’s other divisions for years. With the type of consolidation the industry is facing, it’s time for Sony to be much more aggressive in IP acquisition. Otherwise PlayStation will go the way of the Walkman sooner or later.
SaucyJack
Member
Indeed.
The 5 billion is what is left for year 3 of an announced (to investors) 3-year strategy that was focussed on content acquisition across the group - hence some of their other TV, Movie and Music acquisitions over that period.
Sony could still make significant one-off and large acquisitions outside of that 3-year investment strategy if they wished - and they would have to announce, explain and sell that to investors separately. It's not really their style but they certainly have the financial clout to do so if it was strategically important for them.
Varteras
Gold Member
Eyyyyyy! Someone mentioned one of my "Whose Sony Gonna Buy" Bingo names! I'm two for four with a free space. I got Bluepoint and Housemarque. Still looking for Vanillaware and Arc System Works!
begotten
Member
I know between EVO & PS Tournaments Sony has an eye on the FGC but I don't see them buying ArcSys at all. Maybe an exclusive fighting game from them at best.
Varteras
Gold Member
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
A lot of people think sony has a list of companies to buy.
Buggy Loop
Member
What do you mean poorly
Quest pro? Meta verse? That doesn’t affect the game studios. Zuckerberg lost pocket money in that endeavour.
Cmon, they know when they have a good VR game. There’s so many peoples working on oculus.
They shut down Echo VR, not Lone Echo.
Support for Echo VR was wearing the small team thin and requires too much ressources for the “low ten thousands” active players. They pulled the plug to put ressources on a future project.
Varteras
Gold Member
Varteras
Gold Member
Referring to how badly they overestimated the Metaverse. And NO! I refuse to believe anything beyond my kneejerk reaction. Because that is how we live around here.
Honestly, I just still live in denial they were bought by Facebook
ChuckeRearmed
Member
If Sony acquired something it would leak only in 1-2 days before the announcement at best. Nobody would knew a thing.
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Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
The infatuation is simple: make more money. It's a business it serves no other primary goal than making more money for their investors.
John Wick
Member
Bungie is 1000+ people. That's three to four times the size of Insomniac. Also you have to account for inflation as well. Bungie will bring the necessary online multiplayer expertise Sony lack and FPS pedigree.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Not enough. They shouldve saved up and bought Take2.
GTA is the only thing that is as big as COD and give them some leverage against MS. Bungie is a decent get, but it just cant compete with CoD. MS can live without Bungie's next game. Sony cant live without CoD and MS cant live without GTA.
GTA is the only thing that is as big as COD and give them some leverage against MS. Bungie is a decent get, but it just cant compete with CoD. MS can live without Bungie's next game. Sony cant live without CoD and MS cant live without GTA.
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LordOfChaos
Member
Just 14% of From Software...Finish the job. And for gods sake help them with their engine.
graywolf323
Member
I think the one that doesn’t get talked about a lot is Kadokawa, they are also in the trans-media business so that’d boost multiple parts for Sony + they’d get teams like From Software & Spike Chunsoft on the gaming side
HundredThousandTrillion
Member
$3.7 billion on “From the studio that brought you Halo” and you don’t get Halo is hilarious. What a ripoff.
Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
The vast majority of IPs go to playstation. MS can't buy every Japanese, European, Chinese, American and Canadian gaming company ever. As long as PS has the massive brand power (and therefore marketshare) it does, companies will sell games on the platform that sells.
Like 200 million
HundredThousandTrillion
Member
Sony’s Problem in Two Sentences:
Sony didn’t buy Activision because they couldn’t afford them. Microsoft didn’t buy Bungie because they thought they were overpriced.
Large publishers who hold valuable IP are going to garner interest and competition from other perspective buyers. Rest assured that the moment a consultant or a bank is hired to explore shopping or purchasing a company all other companies and PE firms quickly find out about it. I’m in a gaming adjacent industry (we use game mechanics and package our offerings as games in the category we compete in) and we get those calls all of the time.
Sony might seem like the ideal partner for Publisher X. And Publisher Xs executive team might think that Sony better aligns to their mission, goals, culture etc but things can get messy with “doing what’s right for stockholders” and when the board gets involved. Saying no to a 12x offer in order to take Sony’s 10x and better vision and alignment might be OK. But saying no to 20x and Sony’s 10x offer is not going to fly. Vision and alignment be damned. Just look at what steps Ubisoft took to avoid a hostile takeover.
Lucky for them if M$ acquisition goes through they’ll be sidelined as they prove they can play nice. So they’ll only have to compete with Apple ($60 billion cash on hand, $140 billion investments), Netflix, Amazon, NVidia, Tencent, and a million other Private Equity firms and Saudi backed IP sharks.
TLDR; Sony’s problem isn’t cash. Sony’s problem is that other companies have more cash.
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Sanepar
Member
Sony is so stupid. Playstation is their most important division and look how they invested capital...
Cd projekt and kadokawa would be really good aquisitions.
German Hops
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
phil_t98
#SonyToo
how so?
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
They make more than that in revenue each year I think. And it is not just about how much money they gain but the potential they have with Sony at their back. At worst it will be like Minecraft and Destiny 2 will pay for itself. This is not a dig at Microsoft/ Mojang, please do not take it wrong. At best one or more of their new games in production explodes and Sony wins big. And their help with Sony other GAAS initiatives is worth a lot too.
Why would Sony even want to buy Activision ? They already have the biggest slice of COD after Activision and none of the contraints and dangers that got with putting so many ressources into 1 IP? If Activision was so good others investors would have brought it a long time ago. For me if Bungie were willing to sell themselves to Microsoft they would have been. Just for the PR. So I think that they really did not want that. Maybe you heard differently? The affirmation that Sony do not have as much cash as others companies is naturally true. But the need and ability to leverage those is not at Sony level in the gaming market too, as you have said. They can outbid Sony, but do not needs Publisher X and can't use it like Sony would. So unless we are talking the biggest ones, that are few and culturally so different that Sony would not want them anyway(I do not see Sony buying EA for example) I think that they have opportunities in Japanese ones (Capcom, Square Enix...).
I have the impression that the gaming market is like the cinema industry in the fact that each game is a gamble. And big compagnies like Amazon, Microsoft, Google ... do not want to gamble. They want a monopoly and a relative neutral place like they did in their respectives markets. So they want to be the Netflix of gaming, or have control of the infrastructure used for it, or something like that. Not investing in games and hoping that it works. Not looking for the next minecraft, the next zelda, the next COD... Too small for them. That is why I do not fear them entering violently and trying to compete with Sony, Nintendo, Xbox and Steam, using billions of dollars. Amazon and google seems to use their gaming initiatives more to push their cloud solutions to the market. Am I wrong?
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John Wick
Member
MS would be out of the picture if the ABK deal goes through. Apple would have already bought Take 2 if they were interested. Other than Tencent there is no one. I don't think the US would allow Tencent to buy Take 2 outright.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
sony said the acquisition was for Bungie's expertise in GaaS which is spotty at best, and yet ND had to hire Fornite's "Monetization Designer".
latest Destiny's expansion was not very well received.
and the contract terms are insane in Bungie's favor.
.
bitbydeath
Member
Anything’s possible, they’ve gone dark for over a year, we know they’re still sitting on the Ballistic Moon announcement, could be others too.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Looks like people hate acquisitions until it's your brand of choice.
SaucyJack
Member
Ballistic moon would be a tuppence ha'penny acquisition and would require no formal announcement.
The $20-odd billion balance sheet reclassification is not a hidden deal, a deal that size would certainly have required a public announcement. It was an accounting change that reclassified a line from one asset bucket to another. Nothing more.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Can you imagine what it would be like to try and purchase the publisher that owns grand theft auto?
It would be insane with the cma, FTC etc
It would be insane with the cma, FTC etc
bitbydeath
Member
Can’t say I know what the catalyst is for requiring an announcement.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Way easier than the publisher that owns COD. Like way way easier.
And if the ABK deal goes through, the ceiling will be known.
Goalus
Member
Not you.Lo what? I m the insecure one?.
Its not me who s begging for acquisitions....that abk purchase broke qome of y all.
ResilientBanana
Member
Of which is $15B short of a Take 2 aquisition.
SaucyJack
Member
it’s probably somewhere between 2-bit indie studio and 20 billion.