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Sony May Have Just Shown A PC Version Of Returnal

rodrigolfp

Member
you can always turn aim assist of my guy... and if you are good, you'll have no issue keeping up :)

giant hitboxes are not a thing in competitive shooters either
Always, sure. /s. Tell that to Halo games, Destiny 2 or TLOU1.

Edit: And giant hitboxes should not be a thing in any shooter.
 
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rodrigolfp

Member
you used literally the worst examples. that's like me saying mouse in shooters suck and point at resident evil 4 by Ubisoft as an example
And how it's my fault that you did write "always"? And I doubt there are not other shooters out there that don't let me disable all assists. AFAIK, KZ2, WatchDogs 1, and some console CoDs and BFs also don't have the option.
 
Funny you call glorious mouse+kb gunplay minor.
Because it is in this case. Game is designed to be played with a controller so playing not with kb+mouse later will make the game much easier than originally intended. Maybe there’ll be a difficulty setting though to counter it.
 


You know, its this kind of affirmation that leads people to become very disappointed with certain titles.
-Go in GOW18 expecting some game of the generation, only to find a mildly decent arpg with a so-so narrative.
-Start The Witcher 3 expecting this epic RPG adventure, and end up dealing with terrible RPG mechanics and story full of mild-high and lows.

Don't make this kind of mistake when you want other people to try a game you liked
Oh I don’t care if other people try the game or not. I just really liked it. But then again, there are many really good games the last few years. I just wanted to carry over the point that the game is for defs worth the price of admission at release and it’s not a bad buy suddenly because 3 years later there might be a slightly improved pc version 🙂
 

rodrigolfp

Member
Because it is in this case. Game is designed to be played with a controller so playing not with kb+mouse later will make the game much easier than originally intended. Maybe there’ll be a difficulty setting though to counter it.
Should be a minimum if they don't shrink that crosshair/hitbox for pc.
 

01011001

Member
And how it's my fault that you did write "always"? And I doubt there are not other shooters out there that don't let me disable all assists. AFAIK, KZ2, WatchDogs 1, and some console CoDs and BFs also don't have the option.

again, you are using either games where shooting is not the main focus like Watch Dogs (?), or you use really bad shooters like Killzone 2. (you wouldn't want to play that game without aim assist anyways, same with Halo and Destiny 2 since all of them have terrible controller aiming + Killzone 2 has input lag like a motherfucker)

there are shooters on PC that you play with a mouse that won't let you turn off aim asist on a mouse... like Halo or Destiny 2 (I see a pattern here)
 
?? did you even read my post? its all in there. I paid $70 for a game that was missing next gen features that are now being added in for an audience that didnt even bother spending $500 on a console I paid for.
You got the weaker hardware bro. Can't blame people who invest more in their PC rigs for having the superior version of games.
 

rodrigolfp

Member
again, you are using either games where shooting is not the main focus like Watch Dogs (?), or you use really bad shooters like Killzone 2. (you wouldn't want to play that game without aim assist anyways, same with Halo and Destiny 2 since all of them have terrible controller aiming + Killzone 2 has input lag like a motherfucker)

there are shooters on PC that you play with a mouse that won't let you turn off aim asist on a mouse... like Halo or Destiny 2 (I see a pattern here)
Main or not main focus is irrelevant in any game that "has a crosshair on screen". If the shooting part has assist, then auto "NOPE/stick that shit in your ass devs, as I want to aim by myself". I would want to play Halo and Destiny 2 without any assist on pc.

And "nice" change goals there. First I can always disable assists, now one shooter that I can't sucks anyway... -_-'
 
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01011001

Member
Main or not main focus is irrelevant in any game that "has a crosshair on screen". If the shooting part has assist, then auto "NOPE/stick that shit in your ass devs, as I want to aim by myself". I would want to play Halo and Destiny 2 without any assist on pc.

And "nice" change goals there. First I can always disable assists, now one shooter that I can't sucks anyway... -_-'

first of all I never said you can turn off aim assist in all shooters, I said I bet you would suck if you ever did turn it off in games where you can.

also Aim assist in itself being an issue for you across the board with no exception is fucking dumb not gonna lie. many games designed with aim assist or even lockon in mind are amazing games, designed around other things than aiming.

and again, I bet you'd suck without it lol
 
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rodrigolfp

Member
first of all I never said you can turn off aim assist in all shooters, I said I bet you would suck if you ever did turn it off in games where you can.

also Aim assist in itself being an issue for you across the board with no exception is fucking dumb not gonna lie. many games designed with aim assist or even lockon in mind are amazing games, designed around other things than aiming.

and again, I bet you'd suck without it lol
Sure you don't.

The existence of any assist implies that the aiming sucks at some extend. Solutions like gyro are already created and devs insist in putting this semi auto help fooling players to think that they aimed and hit their targets by their only skill.

I give zero fucks if I suck or not playing shooters with controller just as I for sure suck at playing Dark Souls like this:


...because this sucks/have more flaws for this game than other better inputs. I will not waste time on to became better with inputs that sucks/have more deficiencies for certain games than other inputs that already exist.
 
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01011001

Member
Sure you don't.

The existence of any assist implies that the aiming sucks at some extend. Solutions like gyro are already created and devs insist in putting this semi auto help fooling players to think that they aimed and hit their targets by their only skill.

I give zero fucks if I suck or not playing shooters with controller just as I for sure suck at playing Dark Souls like this:


...because this sucks/have more flaws for this game than other better inputs.

it doesn't imply that at all, not anymore. Aim assist is a relic of a time where controller aiming wasn't perfected yet.
developers are scared to get rid of it, and some like 343 and Bungie can't due to their similarly outdated way of doing controller aiming not allowing it.

if Apex Legends launched with no aim assist on console noone would have cared, I bet many wouldn't even have noticed.
I never heard anyone even bring up the fact that H1Z1 doesn't have aim assist during the time it was one of the most popular games on PS4. noone cared. why? because it had good aiming.

Aim Assist is something implemented because Shooters on console always had it, so we also need to have it. same reason why every shooter nowadays has a sprint button, "if everyone does it we also have to do it" is the mentality of modern gamedesign
 
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rodrigolfp

Member
it doesn't imply that at all, not anymore. Aim assist is a relic of a time where controller aiming wasn't perfected yet.
developers are scared to get rid of it, and some like 343 and Bungie can't due to their similarly outdated way of doing controller aiming not allowing it.

if Apex Legends launched with no aim assist on console noone would have cared, I bet many wouldn't even have noticed.
I never heard anyone even bring up the fact that H1Z1 doesn't have aim assist during the time it was one of the most popular games on PS4. noone cared. why? because it had good aiming.

Aim Assist is something implemented because Shooters on console always had it, so we also need to have it.
same reason why every shooter nowadays has a sprint button, "if everyone does it we also have to do it" is the mentality of modern gamedesign
H1Z1 did't have and no one cared but we need to have it?? What is this logic???
 
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01011001

Member
H1Z1 did't have and no one cared but we need to have it?? What is this logic???

AAA mainstream shooters have it because like all genres developers are scared to do anything differently.

every shooter has sprint, every shooter has vaulting over walls, every shooter has aim assist.

the only Shooters that need it are the ones with bad aiming controls like Halo or Destiny... or really shitty ones like Deathloop
 

rodrigolfp

Member
AAA mainstream shooters have it because like all genres developers are scared to do anything differently.

every shooter has sprint, every shooter has vaulting over walls, every shooter has aim assist.

the only Shooters that need it are the ones with bad aiming controls like Halo or Destiny... or really shitty ones like Deathloop
Sprint and vault over walls are not a flaw in controls. This is irrelevant.

Halo and Destiny 2 especially on PC don't need assist.

The only things needed is gyro on controllers and devs stop sucking at their designs/choices/controls programming.
 

rodrigolfp

Member
how the fuck is what you say there relevant to what I said?
I know language comprehension on this forum is really bad on average but I'm still surprised
LOl. Aim assists are a "fix" to controls that have flaws. The other two are gameplay features. Your crusade to defend a flaw in controls/design is amazing.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Why are people unhappy that PS5 titles are now reaching a wider audience?
Ecosystem warriors.

You'd think the more people who play, the better they'd feel. So many of them trumpet sales as such a big factor in success, the more people who play the more sales to boost the ego.

However, with walled garden attitudes they get more joy seeing people not play a game because they treat a video game like driving a Bentley and snobbing around the neighbourhood.

Go figure. For a video game.
 

Apocryphon

Gold Member
LOl. Aim assists are a "fix" to controls that have flaws. The other two are gameplay features. Your crusade to defend a flaw in controls/design is amazing.
I'd much rather devs implemented aim dampening on consoles like in Insurgency Sandstorm than any kind of direct aim assist, but I also think that having some form of aim assist as an accessibility option is a good thing.
 

01011001

Member
LOl. Aim assists are a "fix" to controls that have flaws. The other two are gameplay features. Your crusade to defend a flaw in controls/design is amazing.

that was not the topic, you said having aim assist is a sign that the game needs it.

I answered with NO that's not the case, games have aim assist because developers are scared to not have it, just like they are scared to not have Sprint and Vaulting. because of homogenisation of Gamedesign.

then you come back with "yeah but sprint is not a flaw", which makes no sense in this conversation as the topic was that developers simply are scared to release a game with no aim assist even tho they could
 
x1

rodrigolfp

Member
I'd much rather devs implemented aim dampening on consoles like in Insurgency Sandstorm than any kind of direct aim assist, but I also think that having some form of aim assist as an accessibility option is a good thing.
As an option, no problem. Just as gyro as an infinite better option because is the players that are 100% controlling the aim, unlike sock/hard lock and bullet magnetism.
 
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rodrigolfp

Member
that was not the topic, you said having aim assist is a sign that the game needs it.

I answered with NO that's not the case, games have aim assist because developers are scared to not have it, just like they are scared to not have Sprint and Vaulting. because of homogenisation of Gamedesign.

then you come back with "yeah but sprint is not a flaw", which makes no sense in this conversation as the topic was that developers simply are scared to release a game with no aim assist even tho they could
Sorry if I was not clear. Aim assist is the dev/user of this option implying that is needed. I never said it's needed. I not only think it is not needed as I despise it's existence as I said before that I don`t see even a point in playing with assist and gyro is a solution to this problem.
 
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Buggy Loop

Member
?? did you even read my post? its all in there. I paid $70 for a game that was missing next gen features that are now being added in for an audience that didnt even bother spending $500 on a console I paid for.

“Top end PCs will get a couple of extra options with fucking DX12 stuttering, 2 years or so after it released on my $500 box and I’ll probably troll them on the bad performances even on a 4090. BUT MUH $70!!”

Glitter Farting GIF by Attractions Magazine
 

01011001

Member
Sorry if I was not clear. Aim assist is the dev/user of this option implying that is needed. I never said it's needed. I not only think it is not needed as I despise it's existence as I said before that I don`t see even a point in playing with assist and gyro is a solution to this problem.

it's nit implying that it's needed, they simply don't want to be the ones releasing without it, just like 343i not wanting to release a Halo without vaulting and sprinting, not because the game needs it (the opposite is the case) but because it's the default that every AAA dev does.

as to gyro,
gyro is not a solution with current controllers sadly.
the 2 mainstream controllers (or 3 if we still count the Dualshock 4) have major flaws when using it.

the Switch Pro controller has a really bad polling rate, worse than the Wii U gamepad, and more input latency as well. also low framerates are bad in combination with gyro.

the Dualsense (and more so the DualShock 4) have suboptimal ergonomics which results in the user automatically moving the top of the controller upwards while pressing R2 or L2, which will ruin your aim.
rebinding to L1 and R1 is also not great because the ergonomics once again aren't really great for that either as these buttons are designed to be secondary buttons that you don't hover your index finger over, the controller's ergonomics are designed to hover above the triggers, so that will strain your hands over time as you constantly hold and/or mash R1/L1.

so Gyro can be a solution, but not with current controllers.
the Wii U Gamepad was perfect for gyro aiming because the triggers were digital and the size+weight meant you barely get unwanted controller movement while pressing the triggers.
 
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rodrigolfp

Member
it's nit implying that it's needed, they simply don't want to be the ones releasing without it, just like 343i not wanting to release a Halo without vaulting and sprinting, not because the game needs it (the opposite is the case) but because it's the default that every AAA dev does.

as to gyro,
gyro is not a solution with current controllers sadly.
the 2 mainstream controllers (or 3 if we still count the Dualshock 4) have major flaws when using it.

the Switch Pro controller has a really bad polling rate, worse than the Wii U gamepad, and more input latency as well. also low framerates are bad in combination with gyro.

the Dualsense (and more so the DualShock 4) have suboptimal ergonomics which results in the user automatically moving the top of the controller upwards while pressing R2 or L2, which will ruin your aim.
rebinding to L1 and R1 is also not great because the ergonomics once again aren't really great for that either as these buttons are designed to be secondary buttons that you don't hover your index finger over, the controller's ergonomics are designed to hover above the triggers, so that will strain your hands over time as you constantly hold and/or mash R1/L1.

so Gyro can be a solution, but not with current controllers.
the Wii U Gamepad was perfect for gyro aiming because the triggers were digital and the size+weight meant you barely get unwanted controller movement while pressing the triggers.
As an option, cool. But without option to turn off? Fuck Halo, Destiny 2 and TLOU1, and etc...

As for gyro, I only see praising for the Switch and Wii U controllers. If on others suck, their design suck and this is the problem that should be fixed.
 

Edgelord79

Gold Member
I've double dipped on two titles at nearly full price and will happily add Returnal and Ratchet to the list. Plan to buy several more when the price drops. Sony is doing well with their PC strategy so far.
Will double dip for this one PC as well. Got PC written all over it.
 

01011001

Member
As an option, cool. But without option to turn off? Fuck Halo, Destiny 2 and TLOU1, and etc...

yeah, but these examples here are really bad ones tho. like I said, these are examples for games that need it (although no idea how the aiming in TLOU1 is). Halo and Destiny 2 without aim assist would be unplayable on controller because these 2 games in particular not only cling to Aim Assist systems but also cling to controller aiming settings that are basically the ones from 6th gen shooters, specifically Halo 2 (Infinite literally uses the same sensitivity curve as Halo 2, just somehow even made worse by compressing it vertically)

so you wouldn't want to play those without aim assist to begin with as they are stuck in the past with how their aiming works.


As for gyro, I only see praising for the Switch and Wii U controllers. If on others suck, their design suck and this is the problem that should be fixed.

the Wii U gamepad was an amazing controller for gyro aiming. its size, weight and triggers all were perfect for Gyro aiming.

the size meant smaller adjustments to the orientation were easier, the weight meant pressing buttons and triggers didn't move the controller much, and the triggers were shallow and digital so not much movement was needed to activate them either.

then there was the high polling rate of the gyro sensor of course
 

rodrigolfp

Member
yeah, but these examples here are really bad ones tho. like I said, these are examples for games that need it (although no idea how the aiming in TLOU1 is). Halo and Destiny 2 without aim assist would be unplayable on controller because these 2 games in particular not only cling to Aim Assist systems but also cling to controller aiming settings that are basically the ones from 6th gen shooters, specifically Halo 2 (Infinite literally uses the same sensitivity curve as Halo 2, just somehow even made worse by compressing it vertically)

so you wouldn't want to play those without aim assist to begin with as they are stuck in the past with how their aiming works.




the Wii U gamepad was an amazing controller for gyro aiming. its size, weight and triggers all were perfect for Gyro aiming.

the size meant smaller adjustments to the orientation were easier, the weight meant pressing buttons and triggers didn't move the controller much, and the triggers were shallow and digital so not much movement was needed to activate them either.

then there was the high polling rate of the gyro sensor of course
Any game that need it, sucks on design. H1Z1 for example didn't suck right? Or suck and people didn't care. And for Halo and Destiny 2, I could not care less about controller, but there is bullet magnetism on pc version using freaking MOUSE and I can't turn off. It's pathetic.
 

01011001

Member
Any game that need it, sucks on design. H1Z1 for example didn't suck right? Or suck and people didn't care. And for Halo and Destiny 2, I could not care less about controller, but there is bullet magnetism on pc version using freaking MOUSE and I can't turn off. It's pathetic.

because it would be unfair for PC mouse users to not have it.
the aiming in Destiny 2 and Halo Infinite is atrocious on controller, so the aim assist on controller is ridiculous to compensate.
aim assist is so ridiculous that Mouse players would literally be at a disadvantage if they didn't also get it.

so yes, for these 2 games it clearly is a sign that the developers suck at making good controller aiming.

H1Z1 had surprisingly good aiming for such a low budget game, but maybe that is why it had good aiming.
the thing is, making bad controller aiming is quite literally harder to do in terms of coding and implementation than making good controller aiming.

so lower budget games like Splitgate and H1Z1 might actually just not had much time to tinker around with the aiming and implemented a relatively simple solution.

Apex Legends and Titanfall 2, the 2 best controller aiming examples IMO, also have aim assist, like I said these games do not need it at all, they have it because the devs just assumed it's needed on controller because people would not play the games if it wasn't there, which is nonsense.
 

rodrigolfp

Member
because it would be unfair for PC mouse users to not have it.
the aiming in Destiny 2 and Halo Infinite is atrocious on controller, so the aim assist on controller is ridiculous to compensate.
aim assist is so ridiculous that Mouse players would literally be at a disadvantage if they didn't also get it.


so yes, for these 2 games it clearly is a sign that the developers suck at making good controller aiming.

H1Z1 had surprisingly good aiming for such a low budget game, but maybe that is why it had good aiming.
the thing is, making bad controller aiming is quite literally harder to do in terms of coding and implementation than making good controller aiming.

so lower budget games like Splitgate and H1Z1 might actually just not had much time to tinker around with the aiming and implemented a relatively simple solution.

Apex Legends and Titanfall 2, the 2 best controller aiming examples IMO, also have aim assist, like I said these games do not need it at all, they have it because the devs just assumed it's needed on controller because people would not play the games if it wasn't there, which is nonsense.
Unfair how on single player campaign for Halo games? Or MP with an option to turn on if I want? Devs single sucks for not putting all this shit as optional.
 

01011001

Member
Unfair how on single player campaign for Halo games? Or MP with an option to turn on if I want? Devs single sucks for not putting all this shit as optional.

yeah well... these games specifically literally balance guns on how strong the bullet magnetism is. in Destiny 2 it's even part of some of the gun stats
 

rodrigolfp

Member
yeah well... these games specifically literally balance guns on how strong the bullet magnetism is. in Destiny 2 it's even part of some of the gun stats
I am aware for Destiny 2. It's pathetic clearly just a port without almost any mouse+kb "care". You can just not have hard lock assist.
 
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01011001

Member
I am aware for Destiny 2. It's pathetic clearly just a port without almost any mouse+kb "care".

well they did care, but like in Halo mouse players would get fucked in the ass by Controller players if they didn't give mouse players aim assist.

Halo and Destiny guns basically aim themselves for the most part, only a few guns in both games actually need any kind of skill whatsoever, and those guns are often the least used guns or most hated guns in the game.
in Halo Infinite that gun would be the Commando, which has no bullet magnetism. it's objectively one of the best guns in the game, but people prefer the objectively worse BattleRifle because it's so easy to use with the massive aim assist you get with it.

so porting these to PC they just gave mouse players aim assist...

the right way to do it of course would have been to fix the ridiculously outdated controller aiming in both games, but "why do that when you are scared to alienate the longtime Halo players?" is most likely their reasoning to keep the aiming the way it always was
 
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