Captain Toad
Banned
It's first-party, but also multi-platform like Ori, Minecraft Legends, MLB The Show, Destiny, etc.
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Sony vs. Nintendo vs. Microsoft First Party Output
- Thread starter .Pennywise
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
You don't get it.
It's not about Metacritics or score averages by somewhat-iffy review outlets in an aggregation system that can be game'd. It's not about quantity of releases.
Most people wouldn't say Microsoft lacks quality games. What they lack are very mainstream, mass-market appeal heavyweight games and IP that are strongly associated with the Xbox brand. Halo is effectively a dead brand. Forza Horizon has nowhere near the draw of Gran Turismo or Mario Kart; neither does Forza Motorsport (which has less of a fanbase than the Forza Horizon games). Gears has stagnated. Flight Sim is extremely niche. Minecraft is more associated with PC, Nintendo and Sony than Microsoft, and does little for the Xbox brand.
Their answer to that has been to buy big publishers with popular hardcore/core-appealing IP that are also mainstream, that they can associate strongly with Xbox through ownership, probably by leveraging Game Pass. The real question is if they should be allowed to buy their way to mainstream market relevance when their own mismanagement of prior-owned IP are why those IP either stagnated or are dying.
It's not about Metacritics or score averages by somewhat-iffy review outlets in an aggregation system that can be game'd. It's not about quantity of releases.
Most people wouldn't say Microsoft lacks quality games. What they lack are very mainstream, mass-market appeal heavyweight games and IP that are strongly associated with the Xbox brand. Halo is effectively a dead brand. Forza Horizon has nowhere near the draw of Gran Turismo or Mario Kart; neither does Forza Motorsport (which has less of a fanbase than the Forza Horizon games). Gears has stagnated. Flight Sim is extremely niche. Minecraft is more associated with PC, Nintendo and Sony than Microsoft, and does little for the Xbox brand.
Their answer to that has been to buy big publishers with popular hardcore/core-appealing IP that are also mainstream, that they can associate strongly with Xbox through ownership, probably by leveraging Game Pass. The real question is if they should be allowed to buy their way to mainstream market relevance when their own mismanagement of prior-owned IP are why those IP either stagnated or are dying.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
No, I would absolutely say they lack quality games - but I would also say the same for Sony since around 2016.
"Mass Market" appeal tends to make the same, tired, generic games over and over again. They are typically shallow, lack interesting stories or gameplay hooks, and are almost always bloated, focus tested experiences. It is why the Indie to AA scene from all major publishers/companies produce more entertaining products. Give me a Pentiment, Hi-Fi Rush, SIFU, or Strangers of Paradise any day of the week over the latest boring/trash GAAS/Open World bore.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
oh my god. the lack of nuance is pretty bad.
you make good points just to undermine them with your next statement.
Banjo64
cumsessed
In that case Flight Sim, Ori, Crackdown 3 and AoE shouldn’t be there. There might be some for Sony also, Detroit?
Anyway, a list is a list. Nintendo have the strongest first party over the past 5 years, then Sony, then MS.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
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anthony2690
Banned
Probably another user to add to the ignore list, he can keep Eddie company on my list
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TidusYuna
Member
Ori is listed as a first party for Microsoft but Moon Studios isn't owned by microsoft. But Microsoft did publish Ori, which means games published the big 3 can be listed.
Doom85
Member
But if we’re comparing metacritic scores and such, it feels weird to count a game where the majority of its development (announced in 2015, Microsoft purchase was in 2019, game released in 2021) occurred with Xbox having nothing to do with it.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Expectations for Nintendo are also much, MUCH more laxed compared to Sony or even Microsoft.
Nintendo's games don't need $100 million budgets and huge marketing campaigns. There is also a cultural bias for Nintendo's IPs due to how long they have been around. We saw Sony's arguably most varied 1P output in the PS3 gen, and they almost went out of business for it because all the people who say they want that variety, weren't supporting it at retail.
Can't keep saying one thing and doing something else and not expect people to catch on. If Sony came out tomorrow and said they'd be scaling down to just a single Horizon/GOW/GOT/Spiderman-style game every 2-3 years and pad out the rest of their 1P schedule with new Gravity Rush, MotorStorm, Fat Princess, PS All-Stars etc., you'd get a few big-talkers championing it, and immediately get a bunch of console warriors clowning them on it.
Then a year after all those games dropped they'd all underperform and see record losses because the same people always complaining about Sony not doing many of those types of games anymore will just "conveniently" find excuses to not support them. Or, they'd expect Sony to put them in PS+ Day 1 but simultaneously try finding exploits to pay as little for the service as they possibly can.
Because the types who tend to insist everything come to a sub service Day 1 and those who try abusing loopholes to pay as little as possible for these same services, are usually one in the same.
Different strokes for different folks, but I'd say between the two, Sony have managed a much better means of balancing quality and innovations that resonate with enough the mainstream market because we see the results in the output and the sales/revenue performance of that output. And at least enough of the hardcore/core fanbase are into those games because the wider success can't necessarily happen without the initial appeal to most hardcore/core gamers.
It's a good thing to have variety like HiFi Rush or SIFU, but a successful platform can't rely on only games like those. As a more seasoned or particular gamer you haves your own tastes & needs, but don't underestimate the need by big publishers to appeal to the larger market. Just that some are better (quite a lot better) at finding a balance between innovation & polished familiarity than others.
Again, relating to Sony & Microsoft, Sony have consistently proven to be significantly better in that balance than Microsoft.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
you are the only one using warrior tactics.
You keep telling yourself that, warrior.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
You don't want to know about a thread of why VR bad or Xbox branded underpants? You'd think Eddie would push for PSVR2 to be successful so it would help the MS acquisition but he is too short sighted to make the tenuous link.Probably another user to add to the ignore list, he can keep Eddie company on my list
SSfox
Member
Sometime some gotta fill emptiness with BS and lies
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Yep, totes using warrior tactics. By claiming all sides have mediocre/shitty AAA games, but each one has made super high quality A-AA experiences. I can totally see how that can be seen as console warring. /s
Maybe use that brain of yours for once.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
Is that from Unforgiven? I need to watch that again, it's been a while.Sometime some gotta fill emptiness with BS and lies
SSfox
Member
It's from the quick and the dead
anthony2690
Banned
Edit: not worth the hassle after realising who it was who made the comment :')
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
of course you are right about the way they are used (by fanboys).These topics are just manchilds at this point.
I cant believe grown ups are so invested in these meta scores.
Metascores are very important to publishers and they are a way to assess the consensus of a game's quality.
nial
Gold Member
at least do a quick google search, god lord
mrmustard
Banned
Sony owns it? Then i'm out, shit list.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
i made a similar graph (I don't remember the exact time span) it was around PS3-Xbox360 > PS4/XboxOne cross gen window.
It's pretty impressive to see that when hard data and statistics put plain simple without any subjectiveness, you end up seeing that actually the first party output by all these is pretty much alike. We can see stuff like Sony and Microsoft not being too far apart from quality and quantity, despite the former being seen as quite above it.
Also, Nintendo, puts a lot of first party games (doubles the other 2 in the last 5 years), still manages to get its quality up there with the other two despite the obvious reason that the quality gets lower due to making way more games and spreading the scores more.
And other stuff, like seeing Xbox being stripped from the Game Pass and third party support view, goes pretty far into showing how absolutely abysmal 2022 was for the green ones.
and I took into consideration all Published games. even Second Parties, money hats. and acquisitions (from both companies).
the conclusion was very close between them. 2± games on average.
MS could have more output in the 70-80 Meta range
sony the same 90± range
also it shown hoe hard is to have 90+ games in a consistent basis.
nial
Gold Member
Yes.
https://trademarks.justia.com/871/07/death-87107685.html
Also, I don't know if this is the case for MS, but SIE's first-party studios assist development on those titles made mainly by third-party devs, as has been the case with Santa Monica, Guerrilla, Japan Studio/XDEV Asia, among others.
sandbood
Banned
Please don't lump Mario Kart together with Gran Turismo when in comes to sales especially in this generation.
Gran Turismo is closer to Forza not MK.
Mario Kart franchise is on another dimension.
MK8 series sold over 60 million units and likely to end up around 85 million units sold which is closer to the total sales numbers of Gran Turismo franchise lol.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
I disagree with this. They are just as at fault with poor balancing as either Xbox is or Nintendo - with arguably *less* innovations than either. Do they resonate with the mass market? Yes, they do. That doesn't mean much though. To me, they are no different than a typical Marvel movie. It doesn't innovate, it isn't really all that high of a quality, despite the tons of money they put into them. They are simply focus tested out the wazzoo with pretty graphics/animations.
Microsoft relied on the same tired trinity for nearly a decade, with failed attempts at expanding that (at least during the last generation, verdict is still out this gen). There is a reason they were known for Forza/Gears/Halo - but that at least provided them some instantly noticeable variety in a racer, third person shooter, and first person shooter.
Sony for nearly 8+ years now has been known for their "cinematic" games, which the majority offer the same third person perspective with RPG-lite mechanics, lite-crafting mechanics, open world to semi-open world, and a focus on narrative. I would argue that it is even *less* innovative and diverse in that regard. Occasionally we get something interesting like GT7 to help break up that monotony.
This is only discussing the AAA first party non-peripheral games, by the way. When we take into account the A to AA games that both studios release - they are about on even ground, shoring up the deficiencies for both.
Personally, I wish both would go back to how they were in the 7th gen (MS in the first half and Sony in the second half). That is where they had the most diverse line up of games each with something to please everyone. Would love to have quality AAA games that had the same passion and love as their A to AA offerings.
These topics are just manchilds at this point.
I cant believe grown ups are so invested in these meta scores.
As I have always said. The only people who use or bring up metacritic/open critic are console warriors and children who need validation for their purchase decisions. The folks that keep pushing it in this thread are perfect examples of both.
Sleepwalker
Member
Not only you decided to necro the thread where you trashed RE4, you also made this garbage list on the same day. You deserve to be banned OP
yurinka
Member
The chart is an insteresting idea but there are a shit ton of games missing in the chart, here there are the complete (I think lists):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sony_Interactive_Entertainment_video_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_products
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_published_by_Microsoft
In the case of Sony there are missing games such as Death Stranding, Sackboy, MLB or the PSVR or Playlink games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sony_Interactive_Entertainment_video_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_products
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_published_by_Microsoft
In the case of Sony there are missing games such as Death Stranding, Sackboy, MLB or the PSVR or Playlink games.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
you are not the market.
and saying "It doesn't innovate, it isn't really all that high of a quality"
that is ignorant at best, cynical at worst.
in the PS3 era sony had variety then Ucharted/TLoU changed that.
GT7? really? .
Dreams, Astro Bot. anyone?.....
the fact that you forgot those examples is exactly the issue.
is not deficiencoes. is the reality of videogame economics.
they cant.
TidusYuna
Member
I looked to see what 1st party games were missing for Nintendo in just year 2018.
Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Torna
Donkey Kong Crounty Tropicle Freeze
Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition
Captain Toad Treasure Tracker
I liked the idea of this thread but the list is inaccurate and restricted. This thread would be better if all 1st party games for all 3 of the big 3 were included. It would have been interesting to look at. But don't put restrictions either of the big 3's 1st party output. VR games should be included on the list for Sony. It is part of Sony's output and removing it is removing some of the work they have done.
Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Torna
Donkey Kong Crounty Tropicle Freeze
Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition
Captain Toad Treasure Tracker
I liked the idea of this thread but the list is inaccurate and restricted. This thread would be better if all 1st party games for all 3 of the big 3 were included. It would have been interesting to look at. But don't put restrictions either of the big 3's 1st party output. VR games should be included on the list for Sony. It is part of Sony's output and removing it is removing some of the work they have done.
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nial
Gold Member
nial
Gold Member
Even though it uses the Zelda IP, I don't know if it really counts, since it's a Japanese title published by Koei Tecmo there, the same applies to the FE Warriors games. Similar to how Mario + Rabbids (published by Ubisoft everywhere except Asia) isn't considered first-party.
feynoob
Banned
Plenty of high scoring games flopped badly, while low scoring games sold alot.
Metacritic is just a pointless award. It doesnt have any affect with general userbase.
Most people dont really pay attention to metacritic.
Woopah
Member
They're still first party games if Nintnedo is the publisher. The majority of Nintendo-published games are primarily made by develloeprs they don't own.
The Fire Emblem / Zelda Warrors games are on the list and they are in a simailr situaiton, where they are developed by Koei Tecmo and published by them in Japan.
Games can score high in reveiws without $100 millions budgets and huge markeitng campaigns, that's not a Nintnendo-specific thing.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
marketing is a huge factor, as well as the division between critics and a general public.
overall speaking a high quality product has more chances to be successful.
That simply is not true:
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
I am part of the market, not the whole market.
Neither ignorant nor cynical. Just a statement of fact. Or are you going to tell me that Marvel films are super high quality productions?
We still had games like Resistance, Puppeteer, and more coming out regularly long after Uncharted released. This continued into the
PS4 early on and ended around 2016 when they moved HQs and stopped being a Japanese company and started to be an American one.
Dreams and Astrobot are not AAA games. At most it can be argued that Astrobot Rescue Mission is, but as I stated, I am only referring to AAA non-peripheral games. Rescue MIssion is a game released on a peripheral.
They are deficiencies. In much the same way that only consuming citrus fruit will lead to a deficiency in other essential vitamins and nutrients. By only releasing/selling a particular type of product, you are creating a deficiency in others.
They easily can.
feynoob
Banned
Its matter of taste, and how general people interact with these games.
PC isnt the overall market.
Steam reviews helps people who have steam. But it doesnt help other consoles.
You are dealing with people who dont interact with these stuff on the internet. Your regular folks who have busy day and just want to play these games when they go home. Moms/parents who buy games for their kids/teens, and fans of those games who dont care about the score.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
I agree. A lot of this "consensus" stuff is just people who fall in line with what's popular and are afraid to express their own opinions in the journalistic metacritic.
Sure, you can get a general idea about a game's quality, but the idea that review scores are always accurate is drinking the goddamned koolaid.
kyliethicc
Member
graphic is missing plenty of SIE games
It's pretty impressive to see that when hard data and statistics put plain simple without any subjectiveness, you end up seeing that actually the first party output by all these is pretty much alike. We can see stuff like Sony and Microsoft not being too far apart from quality and quantity, despite the former being seen as quite above it.
Also, Nintendo, puts a lot of first party games (doubles the other 2 in the last 5 years), still manages to get its quality up there with the other two despite the obvious reason that the quality gets lower due to making way more games and spreading the scores more.
And other stuff, like seeing Xbox being stripped from the Game Pass and third party support view, goes pretty far into showing how absolutely abysmal 2022 was for the green ones.
Vick
Member
Man, you're absolutely awful at analogies.
No matter how hard you try to push it, the Marvel one is nothing more than the alternate reality/pretentious shit you're specialized in.
As a movie guy I couldn't rate the Marvel movies any lower than I do, absolutely nothing in them appeals to me in the slightest way possible to the point I actually despise them with a driving passion, and yet I love most of "Sony™ games".
The whole radical difference in artistic sensibilities or even objective narrative quality in portraying same themes/characters saw with the Norse Mythology or Marvel's Spider-Man vs Tom Holland movies alone would begin to dismiss your ephemeral point.
Some of "their" games also do things not found anywhere else in the belonging medium and most of the time they represent excellence in many different aspects of production, in some cases arguably all of them, and you disagreeing with these simple facts wouldn't make you the gaming connoisseur you desperately try to be seen as, but rather a pretentious fart of which critical views were probably shifted for personal reasons at one point in time.. thought reinforced by some praises I've see you dispense towards mediocrity I wouldn't play even if paid.
And at last, as an enjoyer of polished single player experiences and despiser of actual mass market appealing shit like Fortinite, Apex, CoD and FIFA, their games were actively fighting against core aspects and practices of this medium I fucking hate, not much different than Nolan movies pushing for 35mm film to be preserved in the digital age.. if you want a proper analogy.
That is until the announced shift towards crap I couldn't give a single shit about like GaaS and whatnot, that is.
Your citrus one is even worse if possible, considering no one only plays first party titles and those brought by PS studios actually represent the very much needed supplements to the general gaming pool.. given how no one else can apparently do games like these.
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Woopah
Member
Its a DLC and three Wii U ports, I think it makes sense to leave them off.
Robbinhood
Banned
Sony is by far the best, I broke down the games into the most simplified version of whether they interest me or not (whether they are "good").
Xbox
Crackdown 3 - Don't care
Horizon 5 - Don't care
Horizon 4 - Don't care
Sea of Theives - Don't care
HiFi Rush - Good
Gears 5 - Don't care
Flight Simulator - Don't care
Halo Infinite - Good
Psychonauts 2 is debatable - Don't care
Sony
God of war reboot - Good
God of War Ragnarok - Good
Spider Man - Good
Days Gone - Good
Detroit - Good
Spider Man Miles - Good
Ghost of T - Good
TLOU II - Good
Ratchet Rift Apart - Good
Returnal - Good
GT7 - Good
Horizon Zero - Good
Dreams - Don't care
Demon Souls is debatable - Good
Nintendo
Pokemon Games - Don't care
Fire Emblem 2019 - Good
The game next to Fire Emple 2019 on the right - Good
The game at the bottom middle of the 2019 list ?
Paper Mario - Don't care
Xenoblade remake - Don't care
Super Smash Bros 5 - Don't care
Splatoon 3 - Don't care
Xenoblade 3 - Don't care
bayonetta 3 - Don't care
Hyrule Calamity - Don't care
Fire Emblem Heroes - Don't care
Luigis Mansion 2 - Don't care
Animal Crossing. - Don't care
Xbox is better than Nintendo because most of Nintendos catalogue is just aimed at younger audiences, or simply not interested but Xbox doesn't have those bonafide bangers. I marked things like God of War 2018 as good but its GOTY quality. Still you can see how much stuff appeals to me in Sonys side, their track record is phenomenal. Take this list all the way back to 2009 and its an even bloodier battle.
For Sony they need to work on variety a little, MS more tentpole franchises (acquisitions will help big time) and Nintendo...well they are more worried about appealing to every possible demographic so I don't think they will make more stuff like Prime. And their games are just built on archaic tech.
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