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Spider-Man 2 trailer was running realtime on a PS5

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hyperbertha

Member
The level of detail is impressive compared to Miles morales, sure, but its really no better than GOW. Lets be honest. Impressive for an open world game if this is consistent throughout the city.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
What did you think "captured on PS5" meant, that it was a pre-rendered video being played back on a PS5?

It looks perfectly in line with what I would expect. Better than Miles, but not THAT much better.
 

Fahdis

Member
"Bu-bu-buh weather makes any game look good!" - Circa Driveclub arguments. Personally it just looks like a rez'd up PS4 game with better textures. So now that Insomniac doesn't have to work too hard on New York, it can focus on the story and the MGU with Logan tying in with Spidey (Marvel Game Universe). Yea yea, I know I'm talking shit.
 
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Dick Jones

Gold Member
Rich coming from a member with the name 'Dick' Jones
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😂😂😂
 
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KyoZz

Tag, you're it.
I'd like to add that the volumetric smoke is what really surprised me, even if it's rendered at a lower frame-rate (for now?):

ImTzI4G.gif
iUnRVuN.gif


This is clearly the kind of little detail that can add A LOT in many areas, especially in a city like New York. The only other games I can think off doing volumetric fog/smoke are Batman Arkham City/Knight:




and Assassin's Creed IV:




Now there must be other examples, but seeing this in an open world with that impressive graphic fidelity is imo a big step up on what we have today.
 

bitbydeath

Member
The level of detail is impressive compared to Miles morales, sure, but its really no better than GOW. Lets be honest. Impressive for an open world game if this is consistent throughout the city.
Nah, looks a gen better than GoW, it’s the sort of graphics I was hoping GoW would achieve.
 

LMJ

Member

This was erroneously stated to be PS3 footage by Sony staff (including Trenton lol), and corrected as a "CG target of what they hoped to achieve" by a Guerrila rep Angie Smets



??? lol that one threw me as I thought it was the 2016 trailer at first and I was like (it looks better than that trailer)
So for those in the unawares...This above is the PS3 trailer that was first shown...and I blame that on the studio misleading Sony to the massive headahce the game had running on the PS3 architecture...


This was never stated to be in engine, and MANY people pointed out it looked FAR to clean to be actual gameplay Also see almost any Ubisoft BS so called "gameplay" video...

The point being this is the devs themselves (devs whom I might point out delivered this below)
Ratchet And Clank GIF by PlayStation
200.gif
Miles Morales GIF by izzyjames

So I would say they've earned some trust...and although I agree a demo is certainly not a game, I'm still trusting Insomniac on this one...
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I'd like to add that the volumetric smoke is what really surprised me, even if it's rendered at a lower frame-rate (for now?):

ImTzI4G.gif
iUnRVuN.gif


This is clearly the kind of little detail that can add A LOT in many areas, especially in a city like New York. The only other games I can think off doing volumetric fog/smoke are Batman Arkham City/Knight:




and Assassin's Creed IV:




Now there must be other examples, but seeing this in an open world with that impressive graphic fidelity is imo a big step up on what we have today.

yep. Volumetric fog, smoke and lighting effects are going to be the next big upgrade that make the games feel next gen. The game worlds today feel way too empty due to a lack of decent volumetric effects.

Character models are already there especially when they are hidden behind masks and suits.

Add in destruction like that street lamp that didn't break off and fall all gamey and you have a great looking next gen upgrade.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Totally looks like in game cut scene models to me. Didn’t think it was cgi at the time. Miles morales looks crazy good in cutscene. It’s not like it’s actual gameplay footage.
 

phil_t98

#SonyToo
I think the lighting looks way better but the suits just look like different texture design and slightly different colouring to show that off. I will wait for the finished game to judge. Can’t wait to play it, not sure if that will be on my PS4 or I will have got a ps5 by then
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Totally looks like in game cut scene models to me. Didn’t think it was cgi at the time. Miles morales looks crazy good in cutscene. It’s not like it’s actual gameplay footage.
This could lead to an interesting discussion: real-time cutscenes on the console vs. actual gameplay on consoles. I think they are going to be the same thing this generation:
  1. Cutscenes now seamlessly transition to and from gameplay, so there is no distinction.
  2. Cutscenes' visual fidelity is usually higher because of focused asset streaming and rendering.
  3. One of the design philosophies of the PS5 is that it can seamlessly stream assets for the in-frame scene, drop the assets, and then stream the new assets instantly as the camera moves. So only the on-screen stuff is rendered at the highest possible quality at a given point in time. So basically the same type of asset streaming and rendering as happens in cutscenes.
  4. We have already seen a practical example of this in Ratchet & Clan: Rift Apart. Insomniac used only LOD0 assets for both cutscenes and gameplay, so they looked the same.
I think with the power of the PS5, we can literally see the same type of graphics and visual fidelity in gameplay, as we see in cutscenes.
 

CamHostage

Member
This is what not being cross-gen gets you.

...More like this is what being the fourth title for a next-generation platform, shipping in 2023, gets you.

I'd be interested to see Insomniac break down that trailer and point out what's otherwise, but it looks like further refinement of everything they accomplished before (including their first exclusive game, which built upon a lot of technology they constructed for their past-gen/cross-gen releases) rather than a revolutionary rewrite thanks to the exclusive power of the PlayStation 5. Particularly when we're just talking visually (I love the smoke, but what else are we talking about here?,) that trailer doesn't seem to have much aside from the visual clarity to say that it screams next-gen; if a game had robust physics or quick-traveling asset integration, that's a different matter. There's still not a development system or engine (known or shown to the public yet) that is wholly built for next-gen and just severs all possibilities of past-gen outside of the reasonable downgrades or cuts or workarounds.

(Even Unreal Engine 5, it's an extraordinary new way to build and light games... but if you're making a past-gen game, you kind of just turn Nanite & Lumen off and render assets / stage lights the old-fashioned way, then put that version out, still on UE5...if you still can.)

That's not to say that there won't be games that eventually push past the reasonable capacity of past-gen (R&C already does in some ways, FS is a weird case with the Cloud assisting it but it's impressively dense and doesn't seem doable on X1 even though Asobi was at one time considering it, and baking down for instance UE5's Lumen in the Land of Nanite would be...ugly,) but the breakthroughs in the past came through harnessing hardware power through a combination of asset volume and FX techniques against the framerate. We're seeing the volume in the framerate and minute detail rather than a generational leap of stuff on the screen at once, and as far as techniques, we saw a lot of the techniques being utilized now (global illumination, physical-based rendering, physiological animation & IK, things of that nature) used last gen in as much capacity as possible, and now those techniques are either standard features or are being taken to the next level, but it's a forwarding of those things we have seen. "New" is hard to come by, not just because of the "diminishing returns" concept, but because the revolution of this gen beyond the evolution (besides raytracing) is said to be in AI and machine-learned functionality. So like the muscle simulation added to animation in Spider-Man, the motion matching animation algorithm by Ubisoft and others, area and character auto-generating, volumetric fluids and gases, to a degree the image reconstruction tools like DLSS. Maybe a ML tool will come along that is just designed to create cool shit, but for the last two GDCs the emphasis has been on tools that make game development faster for the designers and more efficient on the hardware to return computing power back to the player. And although developers had been experimenting with that stuff before the hardware launched, it's unfortunately not mature yet.

My take is, it's not cross-gen that's holding PS5/XS back. This is the state of current-gen game development in 2021, and still would have been if Sony had been completely honest when Jim Ryan said, "We believe in generations," and every game were exclusive.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
This could lead to an interesting discussion: real-time cutscenes on the console vs. actual gameplay on consoles. I think they are going to be the same thing this generation:
  1. Cutscenes now seamlessly transition to and from gameplay, so there is no distinction.
  2. Cutscenes' visual fidelity is usually higher because of focused asset streaming and rendering.
  3. One of the design philosophies of the PS5 is that it can seamlessly stream assets for the in-frame scene, drop the assets, and then stream the new assets instantly as the camera moves. So only the on-screen stuff is rendered at the highest possible quality at a given point in time. So basically the same type of asset streaming and rendering as happens in cutscenes.
  4. We have already seen a practical example of this in Ratchet & Clan: Rift Apart. Insomniac used only LOD0 assets for both cutscenes and gameplay, so they looked the same.
I think with the power of the PS5, we can literally see the same type of graphics and visual fidelity in gameplay, as we see in cutscenes.
It's not just about character models. Character models are only one part of graphics rendering. You have GPU intensive Depth of Field effects, higher quality lighting, MORE light sources or hero lighting during gameplay (see Aloy's hero lighting in Horizon Forbidden West) and all the other post processing effects that are amped up during cutscenes that have nothing to do with the SSD.

Bottomline is that cutscenes will always look better, but as long as they are realtime, the gap between them and gameplay will always be a lot smaller than pre-rendered in-engine cutscenes like what DICE uses for BF trailers and what Ninja Theory used for Hellblade 2's trailer.

P.S One thing we could see is hero lighting on characters during gameplay that will make them look just as good as they would in cutscenes. For example, ND used cutscene models in TLOU on PS4 but they still looked worse than the pre-rendered cutscenes because they werent lit like they would be for a choreographed cutscene with proper lighting. What GG is doing is a very clever use of the extra horsepower they have available, but it's a cross gen game not taxing the PS5 too much whereas Spiderman is a next gen game that is using its GPU horsepower elsewhere like fog effects, better lighting, thicker smoke and all kinds of other next gen post processing effect that give it a CG look. Something like GoW should probably use the GPU to do hero lighting on Kratos during gameplay than waste it on rendering 4k 60 fps.
 

VAVA Mk2

Member
The trailer did mention that it was running on a PS5 but that doesnt always mean it's realtime so it's good to get some confirmation. Easily the best looking game at the show.

From the Lead VFX Artist over at Insomniac.



P.S Diminishing-returns Squad on suicide watch. Literally looks as good as the CG ad for Miles. Exactly what I expected from next gen games.


Sure Jan GIF


JK. Looks good though.
 

Kenpachii

Member
Dunno why people even compare visuals at all with stuff like this. It's all heavily tailored cutscenes that feature no gameplay.

Show me somebody playing the game in actual game play fashion and then we will see how much better it will look like.
 

Velius

Banned
This was erroneously stated to be PS3 footage by Sony staff (including Trenton lol), and corrected as a "CG target of what they hoped to achieve" by a Guerrila rep Angie Smets



??? lol that one threw me as I thought it was the 2016 trailer at first and I was like (it looks better than that trailer)
So for those in the unawares...This above is the PS3 trailer that was first shown...and I blame that on the studio misleading Sony to the massive headahce the game had running on the PS3 architecture...


This was never stated to be in engine, and MANY people pointed out it looked FAR to clean to be actual gameplay Also see almost any Ubisoft BS so called "gameplay" video...

The point being this is the devs themselves (devs whom I might point out delivered this below)
Ratchet And Clank GIF by PlayStation
200.gif
Miles Morales GIF by izzyjames

So I would say they've earned some trust...and although I agree a demo is certainly not a game, I'm still trusting Insomniac on this one...
You have missing, misleading and/or flat out incorrect information in all three instances.

Regarding Killzone 2. "Erroneously stated..." Also known as "lying". Guerilla (though you did properly reference Smets, it was her) didn't speak out on it until 2008, almost three years later, and gamers had been calling them out on it since E3 2005. Not publicly owning up for three years doesn't exactly scream contrition.

Regarding The Last Guardian, blaming the "studio", the generic term you've used, is Japan Studio, which is a first party developer. That would be like blaming Nintendo EAD and calling it "the studio" for Nintendo putting out a trailer with bullshots. Also Sony supplied the specced up PS3 hardware on which the trailer was running, so it's pretty difficult to feign ignorance on this. Of the three examples this might be the worst. You can easily see how Guerilla got caught in an "oh shit" moment, because they hadn't even had time to put anything together for the PS3. In fact the KZ trailer was originally supposed to be for a PS2 event. But with the Last Guardian, Sony knew they couldn't do it. It was developed by Sony. The souped-up PS3 was put together by Sony. The trailer was presented by Sony. Then they went dark, and completely glossed over the fact that it looked perhaps even a little bit worse on the actual PS4.

Regarding Anthem, the very first thing that popped up in the trailer was "Everything you're about to see is captured in engine." That rather bluntly puts to rest your assertion that they never claimed such. Actually now that I think about it, I take it back, this is worse than TLG. BioWare has completely disintegrated. I feel bad for any grunt who's still working there.

I don't know why you think I would try to exempt Ubisoft, they're just as bad. Honestly they're all bad. I'm not shitting on Sony, at least not exclusively, and I'm not even saying that SpiderMan 2 ISN"T running in real time. It was just a light hearted reminder to temper our expectations, be cautious and realize that we do ourselves no favors by misrepresenting the very real dishonesty these companies use in order to get us hyped for games.

The worst offender? Honestly it's From:
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