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Star Trek: Picard |OT| The Next, Next, Next Generation

ManaByte

Member
It's been pretty solid on that front. The lore it has been using has been on target if one looks at the totality of the canon.

Stuff like Picard's thoughts on Children and friendship with Data got talked about a number of posts just before this. Other stuff like the capitalistic nature of individuals and the overall stance towards Romulans from various people is very consistent with what came before.

If there's anything wrong with the show, it's that it totally misses the tone and style of TV Trek. The show being written like any generic modern sci-fi and the use of some silly new ideas definitely does not help but the basis seems solid.

For example, the warrior nuns are mad stupid but the idea that they have a rule that requires them to be upfront about their emotions is interesting. Romulans are portrayed as generally deceptive and more emotional relative to their Vulcan cousins so that rule jives well as a way of showing how different that niche of people are compared to the Romulan population.

I haven't really seen many things that are grievously wrong. There's been a lot of stuff that i don't agree with, particularly the direction they're taking, but they've been pretty mindful of Trek as a whole rather than one point in time.

They still forgot Lore exists and Lal.
 

Makariel

Member
The scene with the dream scene reconstruction was alright. And some of the Borg reclamation exposition was handled well. Still... not crazy about it though.
 

xandaca

Member
Stuff like Picard's thoughts on Children

On this specific point, I'd argue that Picard's entire arc across TNG was going from someone stern and duty-bound to someone who discovered he did want a life and a family beyond his ship after all - the tragedy being that he could never have it. Early episodes like 'We'll Always Have Paris' hint at Picard's conflict between his work and personal life, as does his burgeoning relationship with Wesley across the series, but it's in 'Family', after his assimilation into the Borg, that he turns a corner, opening up to his brother about his trauma, and warming to and seeing the potential in René. 'The Inner Light' has Picard discovering the quiet joys of family life. In 'Lessons', he struggles again to reconcile his duties with having fallen in love with one of his staff (adding to his prior flirtation with Vash). In 'Disaster', he's stuck in a situation which would have been S1 Picard's nightmare - trapped in a turbolife with children - yet he manages them efficiently and compassionately and shows affection towards them at the end. In 'Bloodlines' he even contends with unexpectedly becoming a father, or so he thinks. The movies carry this on with 'Generations', where while he is mourning the (inexplicably unpleasant) deaths of Robert and René, his ideal life is shown in the Nexus to be with a loving wife and children, stupid Dickensian dress notwithstanding. In Insurrection, he falls in love and implies he will be returning to continue their relationship on his next shore leave.

Picard is commonly thought to not like children because he told Riker to keep children away from him in 'Encounter At Farpoint'. That's where Picard started, though, and the cliché that has come to define him because it is said out loud. In reality, Picard's character growth throughout the series and movies is away from that person and towards someone with a clear desire for a family life and a warmness towards children. On one hand, Chabon shows understanding of this evolution in Picard's relationship with the young Elnor, but having the Romulan nun explicitly state that Picard doesn't like children confuses matters, as presumably he told her this at some point and they don't seem to have been friends much earlier than the refugee crisis - by which point, he was well past that stage of his life. I suspect Chabon threw that in to reconcile the storyline with the false common perception of Picard, but it's still a strange contradiction.
 

Stouffers

Banned
On this specific point, I'd argue that Picard's entire arc across TNG was going from someone stern and duty-bound to someone who discovered he did want a life and a family beyond his ship after all - the tragedy being that he could never have it. Early episodes like 'We'll Always Have Paris' hint at Picard's conflict between his work and personal life, as does his burgeoning relationship with Wesley across the series, but it's in 'Family', after his assimilation into the Borg, that he turns a corner, opening up to his brother about his trauma, and warming to and seeing the potential in René. 'The Inner Light' has Picard discovering the quiet joys of family life. In 'Lessons', he struggles again to reconcile his duties with having fallen in love with one of his staff (adding to his prior flirtation with Vash). In 'Disaster', he's stuck in a situation which would have been S1 Picard's nightmare - trapped in a turbolife with children - yet he manages them efficiently and compassionately and shows affection towards them at the end. In 'Bloodlines' he even contends with unexpectedly becoming a father, or so he thinks. The movies carry this on with 'Generations', where while he is mourning the (inexplicably unpleasant) deaths of Robert and René, his ideal life is shown in the Nexus to be with a loving wife and children, stupid Dickensian dress notwithstanding. In Insurrection, he falls in love and implies he will be returning to continue their relationship on his next shore leave.

Picard is commonly thought to not like children because he told Riker to keep children away from him in 'Encounter At Farpoint'. That's where Picard started, though, and the cliché that has come to define him because it is said out loud. In reality, Picard's character growth throughout the series and movies is away from that person and towards someone with a clear desire for a family life and a warmness towards children. On one hand, Chabon shows understanding of this evolution in Picard's relationship with the young Elnor, but having the Romulan nun explicitly state that Picard doesn't like children confuses matters, as presumably he told her this at some point and they don't seem to have been friends much earlier than the refugee crisis - by which point, he was well past that stage of his life. I suspect Chabon threw that in to reconcile the storyline with the false common perception of Picard, but it's still a strange contradiction.
This. I find this criticism of Picard to ring particularly hollow.
 

Stouffers

Banned
Like Raffi living in a camper in the desert making meth... in a post scarcity society?
So everyone gets a penthouse on the bay? There will always be “have-nots.” She “tractored her beam to the wrong starship” and was dismissed for it. Her sacrifoce was for nothing and her life spiraled. I dont care for the actress, but the character isn’t outside the realm of believability.
 

Shouta

Member
They still forgot Lore exists and Lal.

Lore doesn't have much to do with the storyline in the show as we understand it. I'd need to rewatch the early episode but I don't recall any points where'd they could bring Lore up and it be terribly relevant. On Lal, I chalk that up to poor writing. Most the talk in the show that the twins are "Data's daughters" are specifically referencing the fact that they used part of Data's positronic matrix to create them and not that they were his actual daughters aside from that one stupid painting at the start. We've got 6 episodes, maybe they'll bring them up. Likely not though because these writers... :messenger_sad_relieved:

On this specific point, I'd argue that Picard's entire arc across TNG was going from someone stern and duty-bound to someone who discovered he did want a life and a family beyond his ship after all - the tragedy being that he could never have it. Early episodes like 'We'll Always Have Paris' hint at Picard's conflict between his work and personal life, as does his burgeoning relationship with Wesley across the series, but it's in 'Family', after his assimilation into the Borg, that he turns a corner, opening up to his brother about his trauma, and warming to and seeing the potential in René. 'The Inner Light' has Picard discovering the quiet joys of family life. In 'Lessons', he struggles again to reconcile his duties with having fallen in love with one of his staff (adding to his prior flirtation with Vash). In 'Disaster', he's stuck in a situation which would have been S1 Picard's nightmare - trapped in a turbolife with children - yet he manages them efficiently and compassionately and shows affection towards them at the end. In 'Bloodlines' he even contends with unexpectedly becoming a father, or so he thinks. The movies carry this on with 'Generations', where while he is mourning the (inexplicably unpleasant) deaths of Robert and René, his ideal life is shown in the Nexus to be with a loving wife and children, stupid Dickensian dress notwithstanding. In Insurrection, he falls in love and implies he will be returning to continue their relationship on his next shore leave.

Picard is commonly thought to not like children because he told Riker to keep children away from him in 'Encounter At Farpoint'. That's where Picard started, though, and the cliché that has come to define him because it is said out loud. In reality, Picard's character growth throughout the series and movies is away from that person and towards someone with a clear desire for a family life and a warmness towards children. On one hand, Chabon shows understanding of this evolution in Picard's relationship with the young Elnor, but having the Romulan nun explicitly state that Picard doesn't like children confuses matters, as presumably he told her this at some point and they don't seem to have been friends much earlier than the refugee crisis - by which point, he was well past that stage of his life. I suspect Chabon threw that in to reconcile the storyline with the false common perception of Picard, but it's still a strange contradiction.

Yep. I am a bit confused why'd they bring it up too because most folks wouldn't know that it wasn't true for Picard by the end of TNG.

Like Raffi living in a camper in the desert making meth... in a post scarcity society?

She looks pretty comfortable where she was it doesn't look like she was living in squalor. Post-scarcity doesn't equate to everyone living the exact same way. It's just that you don't have to worry about living. Besides, I get the feeling she was living out there because she wanted to drink and smoke whatever she was growing. :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 

Darkmakaimura

Gold Member
I just watched the RLM reviews on all the episodes.

Did they just seriously pull a horror movie trope of having someone get decapitated and their head sliding off? Did they really fucking seriously go there? lol. I guess they had to one-up that with pulling an Eli Roth with the eye ball scene. So, uh, this is where Star Trek is now.
 
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Son Tofu

Banned
"Controversial"? He called one of the people molested by Kevin Space a cry baby.
When you learn about the context it lessens some of that. It's still unforgivable, but I don't think he's a bad dude. He just said something without grasping the full situation. Once he knew the full situation he realized he made a mistake and apologized.

He didn't care if he had the full story when he called those people molested by Kevin Spacey cry babies either :p
You've never made a kneejerk comment only to regret it later?
 
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Fuz

Member
Just started watching.
Now, I'm not a Star Trek super expert, I only saw and loved TNG and didn't care for the rest. So, please tell me: is Commodore Oh's mind transmission something canon or is it just bullshit? Are we at the SPACE MAGIC!!1! point?

Btw, maybe it was obvious for everyone but

The reunion got me kinda emotional.

All in all, despite the bad writing, despite the forced "cool factor" those incompetent writers are forcing everywhere, and despite all the flaws, I've enjoyed the episode and I'm enjoying the series. But the lack of Riker-lean and Riker-sitting in the episode was utterly disappointing.
 
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sazzy

Member
I think I'm on Ep 4 or 5. Really liking it, after absolutely hating Discovery.

The only thing I've noticed that seemed ridiculous was the random Romulan Legolas and the all woman nun cult.
 
Riker still feels like the real Riker on-screen, which is great. Brent Spiner in the opening episodes was the only other original member so far to get it so right. If only Patrick Stewart could remember how to handle his own character--he rarely feels like Picard. One shining little moment in the dark was the dinner conversation, when he asked Riker for thoughts, echoing the old ready room. But the rest of the episode still just swirled around a dazed Picard who had little impact on anything himself, and felt more like an X-Men outtake than anything we saw of Picard in the prior franchise.

Know what makes me mad? This:



That's Levar Burton on set. Think about this... they could have had Geordi LaForge on this quest for Data. His actual best friend from the show, the only one who really understood his technology of all the original crew.

Geordi at least is the one who should have told the android girl about what Data was like, and why she shouldn't consider herself less "real" because of being like Data, his greatest friend. Instead, we had that god-awful Riker-Troi daughter in horrible sentimental scenes, where she treated Data like some kind of legend (and the crayon drawings on the wall, the sappy emotional music... what a complete failure of writing and directing this was). It was like an emotional attempt to mimic the "raggedy doctor" bit from Doctor Who, but the TNG universe should never try that kind of sappy pop emotionalism.


So, please tell me: is Commodore Oh's mind transmission something canon or is it just bullshit? Are we at the SPACE MAGIC!!1! point?

Vulcan mind-melds are perfectly canon. This one felt very weird, though--I don't recall it ever being used a way to quickly reprogram a person to your purposes. I found it very peculiar the way she broke down for all of 3 seconds and then was taking her marching orders as if hypnotized. It definitely makes it feel more like a Jedi power than it did in prior series.
 

ManaByte

Member
Riker still feels like the real Riker on-screen, which is great. Brent Spiner in the opening episodes was the only other original member so far to get it so right. If only Patrick Stewart could remember how to handle his own character--he rarely feels like Picard. One shining little moment in the dark was the dinner conversation, when he asked Riker for thoughts, echoing the old ready room. But the rest of the episode still just swirled around a dazed Picard who had little impact on anything himself, and felt more like an X-Men outtake than anything we saw of Picard in the prior franchise.

Know what makes me mad? This:



That's Levar Burton on set. Think about this... they could have had Geordi LaForge on this quest for Data. His actual best friend from the show, the only one who really understood his technology of all the original crew.

Geordi at least is the one who should have told the android girl about what Data was like, and why she shouldn't consider herself less "real" because of being like Data, his greatest friend. Instead, we had that god-awful Riker-Troi daughter in horrible sentimental scenes, where she treated Data like some kind of legend (and the crayon drawings on the wall, the sappy emotional music... what a complete failure of writing and directing this was). It was like an emotional attempt to mimic the "raggedy doctor" bit from Doctor Who, but the TNG universe should never try that kind of sappy pop emotionalism.




Vulcan mind-melds are perfectly canon. This one felt very weird, though--I don't recall it ever being used a way to quickly reprogram a person to your purposes. I found it very peculiar the way she broke down for all of 3 seconds and then was taking her marching orders as if hypnotized. It definitely makes it feel more like a Jedi power than it did in prior series.

I think the countdown comic showed the Geordi is still in Starfleet and thus probably couldn't help Picard.
 

Fuz

Member
Vulcan mind-melds are perfectly canon. This one felt very weird, though--I don't recall it ever being used a way to quickly reprogram a person to your purposes. I found it very peculiar the way she broke down for all of 3 seconds and then was taking her marching orders as if hypnotized. It definitely makes it feel more like a Jedi power than it did in prior series.
I don't remember ever seeing it in TNG, but a long time passed. Did it work like it worked here? Felt really off.
 

Cleared_Hot

Member
I agree she should have watched it in full.

Politically speaking it how in-your-face it is and considering how divisive everything is. Stewart and the whole "Trump and Brexit" thing doesn't help.

I had to unfollow Ron Perlman after his childish and full blown nastiness on Twitter it was so bad. I'm not even a big fan of Trump either.
Star trek was political but it was never about humans and earth politics. The idea was that we evolved, cured disease and had no more materialistic desires. But other planets did have issues. In this new series (and the new movies) they threw that all away.
 
In Voyager Tuvok helped a sociopathic and killer Brad Dourif to calm down...but Tuvok then had an anger problem...

In Star Trek Enterprise was even illegal


You can influence people with words too. It is merely sharing thoughts more directly, not just via traditional communication.
 

Makariel

Member
Isn't Oh actually Romulan? Can they perform mind melds too?
Romulans are usually not telephatic, but I don't know if it was ever made clear if it's just because they kicked all non-telepaths of the planet or because Romulans simply don't care about empathy with others or lesser creatures.
 

Shouta

Member
Isn't Oh actually Romulan? Can they perform mind melds too?

She's supposed to be Vulcan. I think most folks think she's probably Romulan though since she's in on the conspiracy?

The series hasn't stated that Romulans are telepathic but it's also never stated that can't be. It wouldn't be too far-fetched considering Vulcans and Romulans are cousins basically.
 

Ironbunny

Member
Bahahahahahha at that first scene of EP8 🥳 Groovy *starts the chainsaw*.



Not everything needs to be explained literaly in the show. Somethings are better left to the imagination even if they dont make any sense.
 
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Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Watched e8, i liked it, i like where the plot is going, it seems maybe trans galatic species may appear.
When species create artificial intelligence of a certain level it appearently triggers when a species is ready for first contact.

TNG did not go far into advanced artificial intelligence, because in the 90s no one was really talking about it, but with all the buzz about A.I today its no surprise they will delve into this area.
Makes you wonder when Q will show up, because super A.I would definitely be a potential threat to the Q.
 

Fuz

Member
Ongoing impressions.

Fucking stupid intro.
7 ot 9 that appears out of nowhere at the right time in the right place whenever they need a deus ex.
"I don't want to talk about it!", immediately proceeds to talk about it.
Great CGI with those Borg cables that can also go through clothes!
Bad guy (ok, girl) can instantly teleport out of danger whenever she wants, no question asked.

I'm so fucking disappointed in this.
 
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Was a Season 3 confirmed before? I'm watching Kevin Smith's latest 'podcast' Fatman Beyond and his co-host (Marc Bernadin) announced he signed on to write for Season 2 & 3 of Picard. This is potentially a good thing, but then he also mentions he's sharing the writer's room with 9 other people so...
 

eot

Banned
Did they really have to go with the most played out thing in sci-fi as the backstory for this thing?
 
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