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Star Trek: Strange New Worlds is More Episodic Like TOS, 'It's not Discovery'

ManaByte

Member



So you’ve started filming Strange New Worlds, how does it compare and contrast to the other Trek shows so far?
It's unlike the other shows in that it's really episodic. If you think back to The Original Series, it was a tonally more liberal — I don't mean in terms of politics, but it could sort of be more fluid. Like sometimes Robert Bloch would write a horror episode. Or Harlan Ellison would have "City on the Edge of Forever," which is hard sci-fi. Then there would be comedic episodes, like "Shore Leave" or "The Trouble with Tribbles." So [co-showrunner] Henry Alonso Myers and myself are trying to serve that. We've all become very enamored, myself included, with serialized storytelling. And I'm talking to you from behind the stage where we're shooting Picard, which is deeply serialized. But Strange New Worlds is very much adventure-of-the-week but with serialized character arcs.

Were there any changes to the Enterprise set design and uniforms compared to what we saw when we were introduced to these characters in Discovery season 2?
Yeah. It's a fine line because obviously we want to keep continuity with the storytelling and the style, but we also want Strange New Worlds to be a different show. It's not Discovery. There are a few more reach-backs (to The Original Series) and the uniforms have been adjusted slightly, the sets are slightly different. Remember the Enterprise existed as a little piece of [the show Discovery] but now its its own object. When you close your eyes and think of the key sets and situations that you think of The Original Series, that's what we're looking to do.
 

DiscoHippo

Banned
Oh, this newest series is 'episodic' you say? Well here's my $9.99 a month CBS, ya got me! I'm sure it's not a trash fire like the other spin-offs, and won't continue to sully the Star Trek name at all!
 

Forsythia

Gold Member
Why can't they strike a happy medium like DS9 where there were over-arching plots, but also individual adventures.
Because there are only half the number of episodes per season and the writers aren't good enough to make it work with that constraint.
 
Hmm, where have I heard something like that before...


"No guys, seriously, it will be nothing like Discovery!" With Picard it was supposed to be more "contemplative" (lol), now it's more "episodic", whatever. It's going to be terrible. As if these hacks had any kind of creative range.
 
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ManaByte

Member
Hmm, where have I heard something like that before...


"No guys, seriously, it will be nothing like Discovery!" With Picard it was supposed to be more "contemplative" (lol), now it's more "episodic", whatever. It's going to be terrible. As if these hacks had any kind of creative range.
Picard is nothing like Discovery.
 

AJUMP23

Gold Member
Discovery was OK. Overly dramatic at intense, but I like the first season when they went to the bizarro universe. Picard was a plot hole after plot hole of preachiness.
 

ManaByte

Member
Discovery was OK. Overly dramatic at intense, but I like the first season when they went to the bizarro universe.

The only good episodes of Discovery are those Mirror Universe episodes in S1, S2 with Pike, and Unification III in S3. The rest of Season 1 and Season 3 are terrible.
 

Ballthyrm

Member
The problem with Modern Star Trek is that
  • They are more interested in what message they want heard instead of telling good stories.
  • They are more interested in their Characters skin colors and sexual orientation than their moral character.
  • They are more interested in Humanity's flaws than in Humanity's virtues
  • They are more interested in dysfunctional politics than in vigorous but respectful debates.
  • They are more interested in the value of individuals than the value of teamwork
They don't understand that Star Trek is supposed to be what we should aspire to be, not what Humanity is right now.
They don't understand that it's supposed to show how we better ourselves if only we did ****

Star Trek is supposed to be hopeful and these new shows are hopeless.
 
Sorry but I have a problem with lieutenant Uhura's hair in this new series

Where is her 60s Beehive?

She didn't have short hair like that in TOS

i'm tempted to boycott the series off that alone




 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
The problem with Modern Star Trek is that
  • They are more interested in what message they want heard instead of telling good stories.
  • They are more interested in their Characters skin colors and sexual orientation than their moral character.
  • They are more interested in Humanity's flaws than in Humanity's virtues
  • They are more interested in dysfunctional politics than in vigorous but respectful debates.
  • They are more interested in the value of individuals than the value of teamwork
They don't understand that Star Trek is supposed to be what we should aspire to be, not what Humanity is right now.
They don't understand that it's supposed to show how we better ourselves if only we did ****

Star Trek is supposed to be hopeful and these new shows are hopeless.

You're not wrong.

Star Trek always - ALWAYS - tackled important social issues, political problems and modern day injustices. It's just that the old shows did this in service of the story they were telling.

These days its message/agenda first, story comes second.

Lazy story telling.

In the same way some bad movies think up the big, explosive set pieces first, and write the story to get to them (which never works) these shows are thinking up the political messages they want to get across first, then fitting the story around them. It's horrible.
 

strange headache

Fluctuat nec mergitur
Don't give a sh*t if it's episodic or a story arc, that's not what is important to Star Trek. TOS was episodic, TNG was a little bit of both, DS9 was more of an arc. So what?
Saying that it's not Discovery only tells me how embarrassed they are of that show themselves. There's still a myriad of way they can screw this up and screw this up they will!
 

plushyp

Member
I still can't get over the fact that we've had countless new Star Trek media since 2009 and not a single one of them have been decent.
 

Artoris

Member
If Alex Kurtzman's greasy little fingers are involved in any way then I'm automatically out. The last episode of Enterprise was the last entry to the Star Trek franchise.
The seasons 1-3 were good, but the fourth one felt desperate as they just could not find the right idea
 
The seasons 1-3 were good, but the fourth one felt desperate as they just could not find the right idea
The Xindi arc really had the show start to come into its own, with Archer settling into the role of a bit of a badass. They nailed the 'even the most righteous man has his price' trope multiple times during that season.

Thank the studio execs for pulling the plug early, knowing that no Star Trek series has had an overall 'good' first or second season.
 

6502

Member
The Xindi arc really had the show start to come into its own, with Archer settling into the role of a bit of a badass. They nailed the 'even the most righteous man has his price' trope multiple times during that season.

Thank the studio execs for pulling the plug early, knowing that no Star Trek series has had an overall 'good' first or second season.
I think Scott Bacula portrayed the captain's inner torments better than any ST actor and for far longer. He wasn't a just badass to me, not as much as a desperate but determined man who had his ideals tested and torn from him. Especially jarring after his boyish optimism in the early seasons.

It would have been interesting to see him build it back up and form the federation properly.

Enterprise deserved 3 more seasons on the strength of his acting alone. The crew were largely likable with no poor or annoying characters.

However it comes after ds9 and tng in the poll for me. TOS also tops it as I love watching it drunk (got it constantly on rerun much to the chagrin of the wife).

Tbh I don't care for the latest stuff, "it isn't discovery" is how I want any future cancer test result to revealed.
 
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ManaByte

Member
I was kind of curious about Discovery. I watched half of Season 1 and it was awful. Did season 3 get better?

Season 1 is dogshit except for the couple of mirror universe episodes at the end. Season 2 is fine and Pike's the best thing about it (and Jonathan Frakes directed a tie-in episode to First Contact). Season 3 is complete dogshit (again) except for Unification III.
 

strange headache

Fluctuat nec mergitur
I think Scott Bacula portrayed the captain's inner torments better than any ST actor and for far longer. He wasn't a just badass to me, not as much as a desperate but determined man who had his ideals tested and torn from him. Especially jarring after his boyish optimism in the early seasons.

It would have been interesting to see him build it back up and form the federation properly.

Enterprise deserved 3 more seasons on the strength of his acting alone. The crew were largely likable with no poor or annoying characters.

However it comes after ds9 and tng in the poll for me. TOS also tops it as I love watching it drunk (got it constantly on rerun much to the chagrin of the wife).

Tbh I don't care for the latest stuff, "it isn't discovery" is how I want any future cancer test result to revealed.

Enterprise really deserved more. Scott Bacula was a great captain and the show had lots of good characters, especially Phlox. The war against the Xindi and the crew's journey into the expanse really brought some moral dilemmas into play that elevated the show beyond mere sci-fi action schlock. It was "not TNG" done right, unlike the dreck we are being served nowadays.
 
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Alcibiades

Member
I hated the ending of Season 2 of Discovery. Just as the main villain started becoming compelling by willing to negotiate with the Federation for peace (which is perfect for what Star Trek is), the Federation goes all "no compromise" and chooses war instead. I found that turn of events the most compelling of the whole series - like what would it be like to get a peaceful compromise instead of some action-laden ending. But no, all sense thrown out the window. Like, the Federation was always willing to negotiate with Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians (they sent Starfleet to go kick out Native Americans), etc... but NOW we won't compromise?
 

raduque

Member
It's pretty sad that of the 3 new Trek shows we got recently, Lower Decks was the best.

Though I quite enjoyed S2 of Disco, and the Discovery herself is a beautiful ship.

I'm looking forward to Strange New Worlds, the Enterprise crew was the best part of Disco S2.

Picard S2 is bringing in Q - love DeLancie, so I am slightly hopeful for it, too.
 

Pilgrimzero

Member
He was captain of the Enterprise for 15 years and this is starting when he has nine or so years left before ending up in the chair.

Just they always seem to want to capture that old school "seek out new life etc" aspect that original and TNG had thus Voyager and Enterprise and Discovery when they had" The Adventures of Pike" to draw from for several decades and are only now thinking its a good idea.

I can only assume they were afraid to cast someone else as Spock
 

Kadve

Member
You're not wrong.

Star Trek always - ALWAYS - tackled important social issues, political problems and modern day injustices. It's just that the old shows did this in service of the story they were telling.
Um, not really. TNG sure, but TOS didn't really go for aesops beyond ones that only worked within the episode itself. It was more like:
"Don't let kids get godlike powers" (Charlie X),
"Don't assume aliens aren't sentient" (The Devil in the Dark),
"Don't let computers run your war" (A Taste of Armageddon) or
"Nazism is bad" (Patterns of Force).

Sure, some existed in season 3 such as"Day of the Dove" or "Is There in Truth No Beauty?", but there is also a reason why it tends to be ignored by fans.
 

ManaByte

Member

Well, I can answer it this way. We are returning fundamentally to episodic storytelling. What is unique about this particular Star Trek show in the current Star Trek Universe is that it is fully episodic. Now, when I say “fully” I’m slightly exaggerating in that the character arcs are still serialized. It’s not like Jim Kirk will see Edith Keeler die one week and be fine the next week as it was in The Original Series.

Our characters will carry with them what they suffer from, or what they learned, from episode to episode. But the stories are episodic. And that allows us to do something that The Original Series is quite good at, to give you slightly different tones. And to give you—for lack of a better word—hidden morals of the story. Like an O. Henry turn, like a Twilight Zone that gives you a kind of pop that really is the province of episodic storytelling.
 

ManaByte

Member
Um, not really. TNG sure, but TOS didn't really go for aesops beyond ones that only worked within the episode itself. It was more like:
"Don't let kids get godlike powers" (Charlie X),
"Don't assume aliens aren't sentient" (The Devil in the Dark),
"Don't let computers run your war" (A Taste of Armageddon) or
"Nazism is bad" (Patterns of Force).

Sure, some existed in season 3 such as"Day of the Dove" or "Is There in Truth No Beauty?", but there is also a reason why it tends to be ignored by fans.

I think some people forget that Star Trek aired in the late 60s and Kirk kissing Uhura was so socially progressive that TV stations in the South refused to air the episode.
 

Kadve

Member
I think some people forget that Star Trek aired in the late 60s and Kirk kissing Uhura was so socially progressive that TV stations in the South refused to air the episode.
Which is funny considering said kiss was done under mind control and was definitely not made to be sene as something positive.

One thing i always liked about Uhura though is the fact that they never ever actually brought up the fact that she was a female officer or even a person of color. The fact that she was there was message enough, unlike later shows such as Voyager. Where Janeway spends a good chunk of the first episode making sure everyone knows that yes, she is a captain first and female second. So don't call her Madam!
 

Lupingosei

Banned
Which is funny considering said kiss was done under mind control and was definitely not made to be sene as something positive.

One thing i always liked about Uhura though is the fact that they never ever actually brought up the fact that she was a female officer or even a person of color. The fact that she was there was message enough, unlike later shows such as Voyager. Where Janeway spends a good chunk of the first episode making sure everyone knows that yes, she is a captain first and female second. So don't call her Madam!
Lincoln pointed that out and later apologized for it, but Uhura told him, that they were in society that was way beyond that.

In that regard new Trek makes even less sense now.
 

jason10mm

Member
Which is funny considering said kiss was done under mind control and was definitely not made to be sene as something positive.

One thing i always liked about Uhura though is the fact that they never ever actually brought up the fact that she was a female officer or even a person of color. The fact that she was there was message enough, unlike later shows such as Voyager. Where Janeway spends a good chunk of the first episode making sure everyone knows that yes, she is a captain first and female second. So don't call her Madam!
That's because subtlety and innuendo are lost arts. Gotta scream it from the rooftops for it to count now!

Gay character? They gotta be REALLY gay. Trans? How would you know if they didn't mention it CONSTANTLY. Woman in power? Congrats, now get to work like EVERY woman in power ANYWHERE. Black/POC? Let's add some stereotypes just to be sure, throw in some racist characters that need to be 'educated', and make sure that POC never forgets their place.
 

Alcibiades

Member
That's because subtlety and innuendo are lost arts. Gotta scream it from the rooftops for it to count now!

Gay character? They gotta be REALLY gay. Trans? How would you know if they didn't mention it CONSTANTLY. Woman in power? Congrats, now get to work like EVERY woman in power ANYWHERE. Black/POC? Let's add some stereotypes just to be sure, throw in some racist characters that need to be 'educated', and make sure that POC never forgets their place.
Dude yes I was so excited to see a gay main character on Discovery but I'm really annoyed at how stereotypically gay he looks and sounds.

What's funny is I was watching Law and Order SCU and the same actor plays a gay dude on there. At one point a store owner in the show describes him as a typical gay looking guy to the detective.

I would totally respect if they had a Riker or Worf type personality have a very matter of fact gay relationship on screen, but the whole thing seemed really forced. Also, the guy was annoying as hell which is like why does the main black female and gay white dude have to have off-putting personalities. Make the white straight dudes unlikable please.

That's one thing I did like about some of the episodes of Torchwood I saw, the same-sex attraction instances were delivered in a more respectful manner.

Maybe it's the serialized format that threw me off and I would like the characters more if it was episodic, but something rubbed me the wrong way about how they went about it.

I am happy Star Trek is doing these themes, even the non-binary stuff, so maybe I should give them more credit for at least doing it. I think if the show was good I would have been happier with the gay character.
 
How sad is it that the Orville is the best Star Trek in forever?
Lower Decks is the best. It is made by people that have actually watched Star Trek before. It’s incredibly funny, creative.

Let’s just pray that Kurtzman is nothing more than a producer credit on this one as well. Discovery and Picard are just awful. Offensively bad.
 
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