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Star Wars Episode VI: Return of 720p, the Digital Foundry PS5 analysis

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sertopico

Member
Looks like Cyberpunk 2077 was ahead of its time, in all the ways possible. After 2 yrs and a half it's still getting fixed. Just think about that.

I also think that allowing everybody to code without extensive studying has brought to this, half baked programmers who lack the proper knowledge for such undertakings, plus seniors leaving for other, less stressful and more lucrative, work environments.

When you think you reached the bottom, there's even more to that! I am frankly tired of all this, also considering the money I invested into my PC. Fuck these triple Ass games.
 
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DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
I demand an essay on how the cache scrubbers and all these other technical things we have no real knowledge of manage to make this horrific output in 2023.
 
Looks like Cyberpunk 2077 was ahead of its time, in all the ways possible. After 2 yrs and a half it's still getting fixed. Just think about that.

I also think that allowing everybody to code without extensive studying has brought to this, half baked programmers who lack the proper knowledge for such undertakings, plus seniors leaving for other, less stressful and more lucrative, work environments.

When you think you reached the bottom, there's even more to that! I am frankly tired of all this, also considering the money I invested into my PC. Fuck these triple Ass games.
Finding AAA developers is hard. Why would someone put in 12 hours of work each day for 6 days a week (sometimes more). You can make the same amount of money by being a mobile game developer with less work.
 

leo-j

Member
The reality that "next-gen" consoles are barely 2x improvements over their 7 year old "Pro" predecessors seems to be hitting people hard. There is and never was a reality where they were going to run exclusive games at high resolutions and high frame rates. Hell, they can't even manage 1 or the other. Underpowered from day 0.
Considering what horizon 2 burning shores looks like lol
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
When these true next gen games come, we are in for a rude awakening...no amount of marketing speak and twitter re posts are going to save us from it.

Just hope they get their next gen stuff working on real PC systems, utilising Windows 11 and its scheduling for cpus
 

Bojji

Member
AMD is shit at raytracing. They need to stop trying or use more performant raytracing solutions like Lumen that knows where to properly cut corners.

Yes but in this case it's the shitty nature of UE4 and game is mostly CPU bound even on consoles.

WITH ENGINE THAT DOESNT SUCK there is no problem achieving 60fps with RT on consoles (Ratchet, SM, Metro, Doom).
 

Tsaki

Member
Morgan Freeman Reaction GIF by MOODMAN
Not really. The lockdowns have irreversibly changed the way software development is being done.
And I'm not even talking about some lefty-workers'-rights type of stuff.
It's a very competitive field in the US now, so forcing crunch and abolishing WfH is a surefire way to lose your top talent to your competitors.
 

Umbasaborne

Banned
How come DF won't make a video about the consoles the way Alex made a video about the PC?

Clearly, the consoles are fucked more than PC
Dont know about that. The game is literally unplayable on pc for me right now due to crashes. It started on the second planet. Im using a pc with a 4090 and a 13900k. I was willing to put up with an uneven frame rate, but now the game is now just unplayable. At least you can play the ps5 version, even if its 600p.

As for the consoles low res, its just feeding my theory even more that these things are underpowered for actual next gen releases, unless its an exclusive tailored around that platfroms limitations
 
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PeteBull

Member
Performance is terrible across the board, but not gonna lie- that ps5pr0 midgen upgrade looks more and more real with every new game launched, imagine we gotta stick to base consoles till 2028 maybe 2030 aka launch date of ps6/next xbox, might regress to switch resolutions by then =D
 

Godfavor

Member
The game was programmed in a way that's very bad at utilizing CPU cores. I believe that even if we have the option to disable ray tracing it might save some CPU cycles but it won't make much of a difference. The devs opted to "match" the performance output of the CPU with that of the GPU, so they have added ray tracing to eliminate the wait times of the GPU waiting for CPU instructions.
 
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Anchovie123

Member
Tom was way too nice here. Trying to frame the video as if the performance and resolution cuts where somehow worth it for the graphical fidelity. There is something deeply wrong with this game and its code.

 

aries_71

Junior Member
648p????

Oh boy. To think that very few years ago we were all impressed by the hardware specs of this console generation. Look at it now… I guess this will be partially solved by launching a Pro/Elite model and leading us all by the noose to them.
 

Kokoloko85

Member
The game looks too average for the horrible numbers it's pushing.






2+ year old games shitting all over it with RT and 60fps to boot.


Horizon 2 and GOW look way better and are 60fps.
The first game was broken and uninspiring combat which janky and unresponsive. Not surprised this sucks
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Respawn really shat the bed on this one and they refused to admit it. This is new levels of low. They should be ashamed to release this as it was. No wonder it's next gen only. This really comes down to incompetence and most likely poor management of the development.

Same thing happened with Gotham Knights. That game didn't get a PS4/XBO version because the developers already had huge problems getting good performance on on next gen hardware. That also happened to be an Unreal Engine 4 game.

Coincidence Reaction GIF
 

taizuke

Member
Even though i loved Fallen Order i haven't been exactly pumped for Survivor, mostly cause i've been very busy with Hogwarts and i'm about to start RE 4 Remake. So, a while back (prior to Survivor's launch) I said i think i'll get it around christmas since it'll be on sale.

Guess that was the right choice all along. Hopefully by then it'll be in a much better stable condition. Sad thing is i've been getting a little hyped seeing the recently released coverage but after this whole situation now i know i must truly wait.
 

kyussman

Member
I know this isn't standard but it's no wonder I've had no desire to game this gen yet.....it's been so fucking disappointing.
 
Finding AAA developers is hard. Why would someone put in 12 hours of work each day for 6 days a week (sometimes more). You can make the same amount of money by being a mobile game developer with less work.
AAA developers have higher salary than mobile developer though...
 

aries_71

Junior Member
The bit about animations being a standout was also hilarious.

These people are slowly turning into a comedy channel, i swear.
I’m very critical of DF. I always thought that they are bunch of enthusiasts or amateurs, in the good sense of the word, punching way above of their capabilities. It’s amazing they become such a huge outlet in the industry.
 

Hunnybun

Member
Yeah, the overall presentation doesn't justify these numbers, nor does the scale. Doesn't look remotely ambitious to me.

HFW is doing way more, looks way better, has rock solid performance (in three different modes), is a much smaller file size and even puts in a reasonable effort on last gen.

R&C is the most comparable in design and features ray-tracing and it's also near locked in three different modes.

God knows what happened here. To be running at 720 on a PS5 I expect it to be pushing wild tech.

720p at a very dodgy 60fps target, I'm basically expecting the best Unreal 5 stuff WITH hardware lumen.

This is a full generation behind that.
 
If I were writing stupid conspiracy theories, I'd say all the publishers have conspired against the consumer to produce an environment in which we'll be demanding for streaming services to become the norm because we can't tolerate this shitty performance anymore. You can't even brute force this on PC that's how piss poor such games are.
 

Luipadre

Member
For the love of god give us an RT toggle. That should be the fastest and easiest way to fix some issues. I just want atleast a solid locked 30 fps quality mode ffs
 

Elios83

Member
An other game rushed to launch with a plan to fix it in the next 2-3 months of patches.
I've also read that HDR is completely broken, the colors are not displayed correctly....how that escaped QA is beyond me...

With this being said I think in general in the future there will be a trend of using low internal resolutions with advanced upscaling techniques like FSR2 to make it look high res.
It's the purpose of such tools. So people will need to be "educated" on the fact that being outraged by internal low resolutions doesn't make sense if the end result still look sharp and clean.
 
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01011001

Banned
Considering what horizon 2 burning shores looks like lol

that game shows imo that crossgen was a good thing, not a bad one.

Horizon was clearly designed with the base PS4 in mind, that means that the developers needed to be extremely cautious about CPU performance and to a lesser degree GPU.

when porting it to PS5 then, they had this high performing baseline, from which they could easily improve things to make full use of the new hardware.
And with the DLC, they then could use the highly CPU optimised engine and let loose a bit.


having last gen around forced developers to actually optimise their games to such a degree, that porting them to the current gen consoles resulted in relatively great performance, and clean visuals.

and now look at current gen only games... where developers clearly didn't really think they have to make sure the CPU is actually saturated and the game isn't bombarding 2 threads with constant draw calls of insignificant little detail noone's gonna notice anyway.

Star Wars can't keep its framerate above 30fps while barely looking better than a mid last gen title and runng at lower resolutions than many Xbox One games in performance mode, while the One X would laugh at its resolution mode...
Redfall can't launch with 60fps because clearly their CPU performance doesn't allow it, while similarly complex last gen games run flawlessly at 60fps through backwards compatibility or enhanced ports, usually at higher resolutions too.


so in conclusion, I think we should have cherished Crossgen!
Crossgen forced developers to actually care about performance! it forced them to use every single thread of those dogshit Jaguar cores to the max in order to even be able to run the games... and now, now they see "oh we got a Zen2 cpu here, now we don't have to worry about CPU performance anymore!" and the results are Jedi Survivor and Redfall... and I bet it's getting worse going forward, where we will see current gen only games that barely look better than last gen games, yet run like ass.
 
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xrnzaaas

Gold Member
After spending 20+ hours with the PS5 version I can safely say the performance is horrible and the game shouldn't be released in this state. It's all over the place in the Performance Mode and the sudden drops can make the battles harder to win because you have to be super precise with the parries and dodges.

I find it very weird they're enforcing RT. Tons of people don't care about it and would rather get more stable performance. (and if turning off RT doesn't change anything then the state of the game is even worse)
 
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CGNoire

Member
The bit about animations being a standout was also hilarious.

These people are slowly turning into a comedy channel, i swear.
Yep more and more they keep playing defense for devs "cross gen" graphics. Always with the kids gloves and there creative rewording when descibing any clear visual outdated elements. Shits transparent.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
I demand an essay on how the cache scrubbers and all these other technical things we have no real knowledge of manage to make this horrific output in 2023.
More like an essay on how these devs shit the bed... surely, when you see something this bad on everything (including PC) it speaks more to the devs behind it and not the hardware.
When these true next gen games come, we are in for a rude awakening...no amount of marketing speak and twitter re posts are going to save us from it.

Just hope they get their next gen stuff working on real PC systems, utilising Windows 11 and its scheduling for cpus
Willing to bet you good money that that will not be the case. We wino doubt continue to get poorly optimised shit from devs, as that seems to be the norm this gen (even with first party), but we will also get well-optimized and polished technical marvels from first-party devs too.

I don't know how others do it, but how I measure the quality of these things is by simply looking at what's already available or has come before it. I don't care if this is current-gen exclusive or if it's cross-gen, a simple eye test is all that is needed. Eg. look at this game, does it in any shape or form look better than HFW, Ratchet, or Dead space, RE4R, MAtrix demo.... etc that came out?

If the answer to that is no, then I do not understand why anyone would use stuff like this to write off this generation of hardware when there is clear evidence of things that look better and are doing more already.

let's keep these things on point, the problem here is that these devs are shit at what they do. And I have previously tried to touch on why I think these things even happen, I'll just summarize what said before... there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. I feel these devs are currently spoiled for choice and performance that the necessary work that needs to go into optimization is neglected. Now they just push the shit out and worry about fi...patching it later.
 
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