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TECH Nvidia stock falls after U.S. government restricts chip sales to China and Russia

America loves a good old war. They'll never have peace with China at least not without a war first. That's assuming the US wins any such war. They might not be a superpower 50-100 years from now. It wasn't that long ago that the British Empire was at its height of power. Look at the state of the UK now.

Do you even understand China's way of thinking? They want to usurp The U.S as the premier Super Power. While I do not like a lot of what my country does around the globe, I think China being in "our" place would be a hell of a lot worse.
They are trying to tap on countries with like minded thinking. Right now, as I type both the U.S and China are attempting to carve out alliances across the world. China is now making alliances in our own backyard (South America).

So while you MIGHT have a hate boner for the U.S ( I know there are people who do, here) You'll have a massive one for China, should they succeed in their 2049 initiative to the fullest extent.
The pushback has to start now(should have started 10+ years ago)Lot's of ignorance regarding China. Look into how they 'govern' their citizens and why their economy isn't doing too well.
Look into how they acquire new tech, IP and such. Look into how they keep buying land near sensitive U.S military installations. Look into how they keep trying to buy into critical infrastructure, here in the U.S.

Why they have warehouses full of trained hackers that hacked the worlds governments. These people are extremely patient, too. They have a goal and a united people behind them to fulfil that goal. Unlike the U.S... fractured people focusing on the most mundane shit.
 
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John Wick

Member
So what do you think should happen?
Do you think that Intel, AMD, NVidia, Apple, ASML, TSMC, should just forgo all the billions they invested in new process nodes, and give it to China?
Why would that make any business sense? The answer is that it doesn't. And even China knows it doesn't make sense, because they don't give out the techs they have mastered.
Are you stupid? They are refusing to sell them highend CPU's and GPU's thus trying to screw over their economy. I'm sure China would be willing to buy the tech and pay a fair price like everyone else. Or did every country other than China and Russia invest in the latest process nodes? Everyone else has access to it.
Also Huawei had a license from Arm to make CPU's for their phones. Why has the US instructed TSMC from manufacturing these chips? Were Huawei getting them for free? In a free market you can't pull stunts like this. That's why China and Russia are no longer taking shit from the US.
 

John Wick

Member
Do you even understand China's way of thinking? They want to usurp The U.S as the premier Super Power. While I do not like a lot of what my country does around the globe, I think China being in "our" place would be a hell of a lot worse.
They are trying to tap on countries with like minded thinking. Right now, as I type both the U.S and China are attempting to carve out alliances across the world. China is now making alliances in our own backyard (South America).

So while you MIGHT have a hate boner for the U.S ( I know there are people who do, here) You'll have a massive one for China, should they succeed in their 2049 initiative to the fullest extent.
The pushback has to start now(should have started 10+ years ago)Lot's of ignorance regarding China. Look into how they 'govern' their citizens and why their economy isn't doing too well.
Look into how they acquire new tech, IP and such. Look into how they keep buying land near sensitive U.S military installations. Look into how they keep trying to buy into critical infrastructure, here in the U.S.

Why they have warehouses full of trained hackers that hacked the worlds governments. These people are extremely patient, too. They have a goal and a united people behind them to fulfil that goal. Unlike the U.S... fractured people focusing on the most mundane shit.
See this is your problem. The US isn't the world. But you think you have the right to do whatever you want anywhere anytime.
People mainly hate the US government. Not all the people of the USA barring rednecks lol. I know plenty of sound Americans but your government are the worse scumbags ever.
 

winjer

Gold Member
Are you stupid? They are refusing to sell them highend CPU's and GPU's thus trying to screw over their economy. I'm sure China would be willing to buy the tech and pay a fair price like everyone else. Or did every country other than China and Russia invest in the latest process nodes? Everyone else has access to it.
Also Huawei had a license from Arm to make CPU's for their phones. Why has the US instructed TSMC from manufacturing these chips? Were Huawei getting them for free? In a free market you can't pull stunts like this. That's why China and Russia are no longer taking shit from the US.

First, no one is insulting you. We are all just discussing an issue.
If you can't act like a grown up, then this conversation ends here.

Second. These products were all developed by the USA and EU. Be it the process nodes, the silicon, drivers, software stack and all the IP associated.
So that means that they can choose to sell them to who they want to sell.
China and Russia id not invest in these process nodes. So they do not get a saying. It's that simple.

No company, or country has to give it's tech to any other country. Period.
If China doesn't want to be dependent on the USA and EU, then they can develop their on technology.
In fact, this is what China has been doing, both with CPUs, GPUs and process nodes. If ever they get the advantage, then they can choose who they sell it to.
Russia a pathetic in tech, they never had any relevant manufacturing of chips, and never developed any chips worth anything.
The best Russia did was to buy some old 28nm machinery, that they still can't get to work properly. And many decades ago they were copying western chips.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Why does it only affect nvidia but not amd in the same scale?
 

John Wick

Member
First, no one is insulting you. We are all just discussing an issue.
If you can't act like a grown up, then this conversation ends here.

Second. These products were all developed by the USA and EU. Be it the process nodes, the silicon, drivers, software stack and all the IP associated.
So that means that they can choose to sell them to who they want to sell.
China and Russia id not invest in these process nodes. So they do not get a saying. It's that simple.

No company, or country has to give it's tech to any other country. Period.
If China doesn't want to be dependent on the USA and EU, then they can develop their on technology.
In fact, this is what China has been doing, both with CPUs, GPUs and process nodes. If ever they get the advantage, then they can choose who they sell it to.
Russia a pathetic in tech, they never had any relevant manufacturing of chips, and never developed any chips worth anything.
The best Russia did was to buy some old 28nm machinery, that they still can't get to work properly. And many decades ago they were copying western chips.
So how come the US was fine selling and buying from China and as soon as Huawei and China looked like they might overtake the US in 5G and outsell Samsung. They were blacklisted?
 

John Wick

Member
So how come the US was fine selling and buying from China and as soon as Huawei and China looked like they might overtake the US in 5G and outsell Samsung. They were blacklisted?
Also you keep on harping on about tech and nodes but Huawei were designing their own Arm design chips and paying TSMC to manufacture them just like everyone else. No Chinese company was involved. Why was that stopped. This is an open market. TSMC can manufacture for anyone.
 

winjer

Gold Member
So how come the US was fine selling and buying from China and as soon as Huawei and China looked like they might overtake the US in 5G and outsell Samsung. They were blacklisted?

And China can decide with what US companies they want to make deals with.
And China can decide not to buy US products and services. In fact, China has done that, several times.
The US can decide what it buys.
 

Ellery

Member
On one hand the 4080 is using the 70 series die, but on the other an expensive 4080 would help move the alleged surplus of 30 series they're sitting on, so could go either way.

That is a good point. Could be released at a higher MSRP and price cut end of the year
 
See this is your problem. The US isn't the world. But you think you have the right to do whatever you want anywhere anytime.
People mainly hate the US government. Not all the people of the USA barring rednecks lol. I know plenty of sound Americans but your government are the worse scumbags ever.

I don't think you read the entirety of my comment; or, if you did, maybe you didn't understand it...
Do you think I maybe.. Love my fucking government or something? I mean.. I don't even need you to tell me the atrocities that this fucking shithole as wrought already. That is besides the point.
The point was China is U.S 2.0 and MUCH much worse. And, no, the US isn't the world. I'm much more intellectually sound than putting all my eggs in that fucking basket. In fact, this world is so simplistic compared to what is going on outside and around it. SMFH. The nonsense we engage with and how much we take this god damned planet for granted.
 

John Wick

Member
And China can decide with what US companies they want to make deals with.
And China can decide not to buy US products and services. In fact, China has done that, several times.
The US can decide what it buys.
Signing contracts with the US is worthless. Why has Google been banned on Huawei devices when Google and Huawei had a contract?
You signed a nuclear deal with Iran along with other countries then 2 years later tore it up.
 

John Wick

Member
I don't think you read the entirety of my comment; or, if you did, maybe you didn't understand it...
Do you think I maybe.. Love my fucking government or something? I mean.. I don't even need you to tell me the atrocities that this fucking shithole as wrought already. That is besides the point.
The point was China is U.S 2.0 and MUCH much worse. And, no, the US isn't the world. I'm much more intellectually sound than putting all my eggs in that fucking basket. In fact, this world is so simplistic compared to what is going on outside and around it. SMFH. The nonsense we engage with and how much we take this god damned planet for granted.
So do you think its right the west should ban selling high end CPU's and GPU's to China? Even though we are all engaged in a free market.
 

winjer

Gold Member
Signing contracts with the US is worthless. Why has Google been banned on Huawei devices when Google and Huawei had a contract?
You signed a nuclear deal with Iran along with other countries then 2 years later tore it up.

What does that have to do with chip production?
Stay on the argument at hand. You are just making up arguments about other issues to justify your point.
 

MacReady13

Member
Unlike the U.S... fractured people focusing on the most mundane shit.
Your country has taken its eyes off the ball and instead is focusing on whether people are men or women, whether a certain character in a film/tv show/game should be black/trans/straight/gay etc... whether republicans are all evil and Trump is the new Hitler. Trying to hide all of Biden's flaws and past indiscretions because no one wants Trump. Your country at the moment is the laughing stock for the rest of the world.
 
So do you think its right the west should ban selling high end CPU's and GPU's to China? Even though we are all engaged in a free market.

I don't care if they ban them or not. I also disregard whether it's right or wrong. What I am for and about, is making our own chips, on our own soil. That is what the Taiwan situation is about. It's about cutting edge tech, pure and simple.
The U.S has some timeframe, whether it is discernable or not, to produce those chips here, by building fabs and taking back a chunk of that production. This could also be seen as a pre-emptive before any sort of conflict were to erupt around or on Taiwan.
Also, the U.S isn't aren't* the only ones who stand to lose, it's the rest of the world. China having a grip on Taiwan would mean they have a grip on U.S/Euro IP, the upper echelons of the supply chain and the world by the balls.

That's what I think, anyway.

Your country has taken its eyes off the ball and instead is focusing on whether people are men or women, whether a certain character in a film/tv show/game should be black/trans/straight/gay etc... whether republicans are all evil and Trump is the new Hitler. Trying to hide all of Biden's flaws and past indiscretions because no one wants Trump. Your country at the moment is the laughing stock for the rest of the world.

I've been privy to this for a long time, now. Believe me, if I could do something about it, I would. Anyway, let's dial back the politics. I feel we're going off, here.
 
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Barakov

Member




This year is not going well for NVidia. The mining crash, economic recession, no more demand from people stuck at home because of covid, and now these limitations of sales in Russia and China....
The are still more valuable than before 2020, but that margin getting smaller and smaller.
But after seeing NVidia trying to rip-off consumers for 2 years, I can't say I feel sorry for the company.
Hot Fuzz Shame GIF
 

John Wick

Member
What does that have to do with chip production?
Stay on the argument at hand. You are just making up arguments about other issues to justify your point.
This has everything to do with it. It shows the US can break contracts and agreements on a whim. The way things are going only matter of time before China take Taiwan.
 
On one hand the 4080 is using the 70 series die, but on the other an expensive 4080 would help move the alleged surplus of 30 series they're sitting on, so could go either way.

It would be a dick move, but I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility. Especially since this is Nvidia we are discussing, here...
 
This has everything to do with it. It shows the US can break contracts and agreements on a whim. The way things are going only matter of time before China take Taiwan.
John Wick John Wick 's thought process apparently:

US breaks some business contract: death to america!
china/russia invades another country: whatever, theyre just not taking anyone's crap anymore.

ps there is no free market.
 
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John Wick

Member
John Wick John Wick 's thought process apparently:

US breaks some business contract: death to america!
china/russia invades another country: whatever, theyre just not taking anyone's crap anymore.

ps there is no free market.
This is the simpletons view when having a discussion about geopolitics. The simple fact is people like yourself whitewash the crimes of the US and the west. Your never taught those things in school or university. Speak ill of America and your the bad guy, supporter of terrorism and communist etc.
I think China got some invading to do before they catch the USA up. As for Russia no worse than what the US and it's allies did in many countries. Just the double standards are astounding. No the Russians shouldn't be in Ukraine and innocent civilians shouldn't be getting killed. But the US and NATO knew that before they kept on pushing ever closer to Russia.
 

winjer

Gold Member
This has everything to do with it. It shows the US can break contracts and agreements on a whim. The way things are going only matter of time before China take Taiwan.

No contracts were made void with this decision.
It just prevents new contracts to be made, selling high tech to China and Russia.
 

GymWolf

Member
The 3090 proved that you have a group of people ready and willing to be price gouged.
Price gouged?

If it means what i think it means, well the 3090 at that price was on a world that goes beyond the scam gaming wise, i guess there is a limit on people will to burn money.

A 4080 for 800-1000 dollars is still gonna sell out at day one.
 
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winjer

Gold Member
The 3090 proved that you have a group of people ready and willing to be price gouged.

The 3090 is not a great value as a gaming GPU.
But for certain work related applications, those 24Gb of vram are extremely useful.
Game developers, video editing, photo editing, etc...
 

REDRZA MWS

Member
The US needs to give up on this insane idea that they must remain the world’s sole superpower. That is impossible. Give up on it and figure out a way to make peace with China. As it stands Americans seem intent on causing a world war though.
You are a moron. Not a single person in the USA wants or believes we should be the “only” superpower. Just like every single country who’s governments literal responsibility (well excerpt communist keep the people down well known culprits) is to help their own constituents prosper, the USA is no different. Except, ya know, the Morons who love DEPENDING on China for literally everything. Nobody “wants” any war, no obits wins. It’s tragic and the worst of humanity. Sadly Gina’s have been fighting and killing each other since the beginning of time.

Russia literally attacking Ukraine, and China on the verge of walking through Taiwan but the USA is “intent” on a world war. Most idiotic statement I’ve ever read.
 
You are a moron. Not a single person in the USA wants or believes we should be the “only” superpower. Just like every single country who’s governments literal responsibility (well excerpt communist keep the people down well known culprits) is to help their own constituents prosper, the USA is no different. Except, ya know, the Morons who love DEPENDING on China for literally everything. Nobody “wants” any war, no obits wins. It’s tragic and the worst of humanity. Sadly Gina’s have been fighting and killing each other since the beginning of time.

Russia literally attacking Ukraine, and China on the verge of walking through Taiwan but the USA is “intent” on a world war. Most idiotic statement I’ve ever read.
You actually believe that huh.
 
This is the simpletons view when having a discussion about geopolitics. The simple fact is people like yourself whitewash the crimes of the US and the west. Your never taught those things in school or university. Speak ill of America and your the bad guy, supporter of terrorism and communist etc.
I think China got some invading to do before they catch the USA up. As for Russia no worse than what the US and it's allies did in many countries. Just the double standards are astounding. No the Russians shouldn't be in Ukraine and innocent civilians shouldn't be getting killed. But the US and NATO knew that before they kept on pushing ever closer to Russia.
a) this is a video game forum

b) starting an argument with a personal insult means i win, bye byeee
 

Lord Panda

The Sea is Always Right
The US needs to give up on this insane idea that they must remain the world’s sole superpower. That is impossible. Give up on it and figure out a way to make peace with China. As it stands Americans seem intent on causing a world war though.

Make peace with a genocidal totalitarian regime? A regime that most definitely wants to be the sole superpower regardless of what their mouthpieces say.
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Make peace with a genocidal totalitarian regime? A regime that most definitely wants to be the sole superpower regardless of what their mouthpieces say.

China is nowhere close to being a military superpower (800 billion dollars vs 293 billion dollars). And Chinas has only one military base abroad compared to the 750 military bases in 80 countries the US has. And China isn't sending its army to to countries on the other side of the globe, whereas the US is continously fighting involved in military conflicts, proxy wars or outright wars that are often based on outright lies. In the past 30 years the US military was involved in conflicts in Somalia, Yugoslavia, Haithi, Afghanistan, Nepal, Mahgreb, Horn of Africa, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya, Syria and Yemen).

China wants to grow its economy and become a technological powerhouse, this will make it the biggest economy in the world and threaten the position of the dollar as the world's foremost currency. This the reason why the US wants to bring China few notches down. The US is a superpower in decline and that's why its using economic warfare and pressuring its allies to do so to.
 

EDMIX

Member
China is nowhere close to being a military superpower (800 billion dollars vs 293 billion dollars). And Chinas has only one military base abroad compared to the 750 military bases in 80 countries the US has. And China isn't sending its army to to countries on the other side of the globe, whereas the US is continously fighting involved in military conflicts, proxy wars or outright wars that are often based on outright lies. In the past 30 years the US military was involved in conflicts in Somalia, Yugoslavia, Haithi, Afghanistan, Nepal, Mahgreb, Horn of Africa, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya, Syria and Yemen).

China wants to grow its economy and become a technological powerhouse, this will make it the biggest economy in the world and threaten the position of the dollar as the world's foremost currency. This the reason why the US wants to bring China few notches down. The US is a superpower in decline and that's why its using economic warfare and pressuring its allies to do so to.

This. They know that the war will be fought with tech, not over anything physical. So China seems to have an idea about where the battlefield will be in the future. Its why they are trying to get to quantum computing as quickly as they are.
 

winjer

Gold Member
China is nowhere close to being a military superpower (800 billion dollars vs 293 billion dollars). And Chinas has only one military base abroad compared to the 750 military bases in 80 countries the US has. And China isn't sending its army to to countries on the other side of the globe, whereas the US is continously fighting involved in military conflicts, proxy wars or outright wars that are often based on outright lies. In the past 30 years the US military was involved in conflicts in Somalia, Yugoslavia, Haithi, Afghanistan, Nepal, Mahgreb, Horn of Africa, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya, Syria and Yemen).

China wants to grow its economy and become a technological powerhouse, this will make it the biggest economy in the world and threaten the position of the dollar as the world's foremost currency. This the reason why the US wants to bring China few notches down. The US is a superpower in decline and that's why its using economic warfare and pressuring its allies to do so to.

China does have some advantages. For one, the wages of personnel in the military and in the military industry are much lower than in the USA.
The other thing to consider is that countries have different ways of calculating military spending. For example, some armies count para military units, others don't. I think China does not count paramilitary units in their official military budget.
Another thing to consider is that China ahs a lot PMCs working around the globe, especially in Africa. These are former PLA soldiers. And these PMCs are directly controlled and owned by the CCP.
But it's a way for the Chinese government to distance it from whatever crime these PMCs might do.
The USA also hires PMCs, but these are private owned companies.
China also has a huge pool of people to recruit from and they use conscription on a regular basis.
The USA avoids using conscription, because it's unpopular and politicians want votes. So now the USA is having trouble attracting people, is part because of competition from civilian companies and a loss in the public perception of military prestige.
Also, the USA has a big health crisis, with a lot of men in military age, unfit for duty.

The thing to consider is that 30 years ago, China had a pathetic military force. With a lot of Russian equipment.
But they made huge strides in weapon development, having surpassed the Russian military industry in almost every field, with few exceptions, like jet engines.
But now, they have gone from copying Russian equipment, that has proven to be crap in the Ukrainian conflict, to developing their own tech and copying western designs.
So China is still behind the USA, but they are narrowing the gap. This ban on high end chips is intended to slow down Chinese developments.
 
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winjer

Gold Member

Early this month, the US Government banned American companies from exporting AI-acceleration GPUs to China and Russia, but these restrictions don't take effect before March 2023. This gives NVIDIA time to take rush-orders from Chinese companies for its AI-accelerators before the sanctions hit. The company has placed "rush orders" for a large quantity of A100 "Ampere" and H100 "Hopper" chips with TSMC, so they could be delivered to firms in China before March 2023, according to a report by Chinese business news publication UDN. The rush-orders for high-margin products such as AI-GPUs, could come as a shot in the arm for NVIDIA, which is facing a sudden loss in gaming GPU revenues, as those chips are no longer in demand from crypto-currency miners.
 

Neofire

Member
Do you even understand China's way of thinking? They want to usurp The U.S as the premier Super Power. While I do not like a lot of what my country does around the globe, I think China being in "our" place would be a hell of a lot worse.
They are trying to tap on countries with like minded thinking. Right now, as I type both the U.S and China are attempting to carve out alliances across the world. China is now making alliances in our own backyard (South America).

So while you MIGHT have a hate boner for the U.S ( I know there are people who do, here) You'll have a massive one for China, should they succeed in their 2049 initiative to the fullest extent.
The pushback has to start now(should have started 10+ years ago)Lot's of ignorance regarding China. Look into how they 'govern' their citizens and why their economy isn't doing too well.
Look into how they acquire new tech, IP and such. Look into how they keep buying land near sensitive U.S military installations. Look into how they keep trying to buy into critical infrastructure, here in the U.S.

Why they have warehouses full of trained hackers that hacked the worlds governments. These people are extremely patient, too. They have a goal and a united people behind them to fulfil that goal. Unlike the U.S... fractured people focusing on the most mundane shit.
I agree mainly with your sentiments on China but the last bit about the US being "fractured people focused on mundane shit" is a characterization at best.
 
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