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[Dyno]

The people who voted in this slimy Canadian reptile are truly ignorant or utterly naive. Ted Cruz is a Living Lie.

 

[Aylinato]

No, I'm still here. The article is a joke. It's citing data based on who is killed as opposed to the concept being that in urban areas with high violence, where there are lots of blacks, like it or not, a law like stand your ground would be greatly beneficial to blacks. It has nothing to do with one person with a certain skin color killing someone with another certain skin color. That's the difference if you're looking at it from either end of the political spectrum or with a certain bias.

Keep living that fantasy where blacks aren't discriminated against.

 

[Edag Plata]

Keep living that fantasy where blacks aren't discriminated against.

Thanks.

 

[Metaphoreus]

Guys the full stand your ground stats in Florida are available on the web, with the id of all defendants and victims.

I actually punched all of the info from the Tampa Bay Times into Excel back in July or so. I'll see if I can wrangle up the results.

EDIT:

I found the file and I'll upload the pie charts I made later today.

For now, I think it's important that people understand that looking at the results by race to judge the law is an inadequate paradigm. The first question that has to be answered is Was the killing justified? Then we can look at the results of court cases by race to see if there's some discrepancy. Of course, we'll run into a practical problem if we adopt that method of analysis: we typically determine whether a killing is justified by a court case, and not otherwise. Still, looking at the percentages with no knowledge of the underlying facts is going to skew our perception of the law, and so should be avoided.

But, I'll still post my charts later.

 

[Kazerei]

It also noted an FBI study showing that "34% of cases involving a white shooter killing a black person were deemed as a justifiable homicide," as opposed to just a 3.3% rate of justifiable homicide when the shooter was black and the victim was white.

I'm sad that I'm not even surprised

 

[PhoenixDark]

His primary debates are gonna be hilarious, though. I am already looking forward to them

He's a very good debater.

Personally I think the establishment GOP will torpedo him if he wins a couple early primaries.

 

[Aylinato]

Thanks.

You're welcome, I enjoy bringing reality to people's lives.

 

[Metaphoreus]

The term "their deaths were justified" is also just tasteless.

To be clear, that's a HuffPo thing. Also, I think that HuffPo shows its true colors in the following two sentences:

when killings involved victims of color, either black or Hispanic, the death was justified under the law 78 percent of the time. When the victims were white, the killings were only justified in 56 percent of the cases.

So, when a "victim of color" is killed, the death is justified, whereas when a white victim is killed, the killing is justified. Talk about dog whistles.

 

[Aylinato]

To be clear, that's a HuffPo thing. Also, I think that HuffPo shows its true colors in the following two sentences:



So, when a "victim of color" is killed, the death is justified, whereas when a white victim is killed, the killing is justified. Talk about dog whistles.

"When killings" first line

Is literally the first line you ignored when they talk about minorities.

Try harder next time.

 

[Angry Grimace]

If he keeps this up, Cruz might emerge as a candidate for leadership of one of the Republican parties.

 

[Clydefrog]

He's the Miley Cyrus of Washington DC

 

[User 406]

White juries do not.

 

[Link]

I am scared the GOP will push this guy.

I'm hoping they do.

 

[Metaphoreus]

"When killings" first line

Is literally the first line you ignored when they talk about minorities.

Try harder next time.

That's not how sentences work.

Anywho, as promised, here is the Excel file I made with all the information from the Tampa Bay Times website regarding Stand Your Ground outcomes. Scroll right on each tab to see some charts summarizing the information. I haven't reviewed the information since July, so it's possible that (1) the information at the TBT website has been updated or (2) I made a mistake in entering the information or (3) I made a mistake in my calculations. If anyone sees anything like that, let me know and I can update the spreadsheet.

Oh, a caveat: the number of cases in each classification varies, so pay attention to that when comparing the outcomes summarized in each chart.

EDIT: P.S. You should be able to download the file so you can manipulate the information on your own, if you so desire.

 

[Slayven]

I'm hoping they do.

This dude is like a Palin people would take seriously.

 

[Nakazato]

Are we supposed to be outraged by this comment because of one local story in Florida where a black person was killed, not even looking at any other evidence?

WTF

 

[jerry1594]

Ted Cruz is a Republican's dream: A minority who hates minorities.

He's like 100% white though.

 

[MWS Natural]

Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) cited his experience as a defense attorney and listed off a series of cases where he successfully defended black individuals against murder charges.

 

[Link]

Louie Gohmert defended black people?! Sounds like it's time for a primary challenge.

 

[entremet]

He's a very good debater.

Personally I think the establishment GOP will torpedo him if he wins a couple early primaries.

He earned a lot enemies in the GOP with the shutdown as well.

 

[.GqueB.]

Dude saw "black people" in the title and ran in here like

Still the greatest referee entrance of all time.

 

[Zero Hero]

Ted just gets it from his dad.

So to pull all this logic together, God anoints priests to work in the church directly and kings to go out into the marketplace to conquer, plunder, and bring back the spoils to the church. The reason governmental regulation has to disappear from the marketplace is to make it completely available to the plunder of Christian "kings" who will accomplish the "end time transfer of wealth." Then "God's bankers" will usher in the "coming of the messiah." The government is being shut down so that God's bankers can bring Jesus back.

And here's the thing. When you get a lot of people together in a megachurch, you can do some pretty impressive things with your mission projects. You can feed thousands of people and host ESL classes and job training programs and medical clinics. And I imagine that seeing your accomplishments could give you the hubris of thinking we don't need a government at all to make our society run; our church can be the new government.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

The reason governmental regulation has to disappear from the marketplace is to make it completely available to the plunder of Christian "kings" who will accomplish the "end time transfer of wealth." Then "God's bankers" will usher in the "coming of the messiah." The government is being shut down so that God's bankers can bring Jesus back.

Jesus wept.

 

[MWS Natural]

When Republicans talk I just want to shrivel up into a ball.

More accurate.

 

[JCX]

"God's Bankers"? Are those related to free market Jesus?

 

[FlyingTeacup]

out of curiosity I wikied his name.

Education: Princeton University, Harvard University, Harvard Law School

is he trying to get 'elected' no matter what? his comments on the affordable healthcare act and this. I think he's just manipulative.

 

[Valnen]

Stand your ground is catered to any idiot with a gun who wants to use it.

Laws protecting people who are only guilty of self defense are a good thing. I don't think anyone should go to jail if they shoot someone robbing them for example.

 

[Aylinato]

Laws protecting people who are only guilty of self defense are a good thing.

Stand your ground isn't self-defense. Stand your ground allows people to go be vigilantes and then "wtf I fucked up, I gotta waste this criminal to defend myself after I've been the aggressor."

It's not self-defense, self-defense is "o shit this dude is attacking me I gotta defend myself from This dude that is following me and making me feel worried for my life."

It's stand your ground(vigilantes) versus self-defense(call police but able to protect yourself if someone else is the aggressor initially)

 

[lupinko]

Remember MuricahGAF, Ted Cruz is a natural-born American, he's all yours and only yours!

 

[Valnen]

Stand your ground isn't self-defense. Stand your ground allows people to go be vigilantes and then "wtf I fucked up, I gotta waste this criminal to defend myself after I've been the aggressor."

It's not self-defense, self-defense is "o shit this dude is attacking me I gotta defend myself from This dude that is following me and making me feel worried for my life."

It's stand your ground(vigilantes) versus self-defense(call police but able to protect yourself if someone else is the aggressor initially)

If someone breaks into your home or is robbing you they're an aggressor. And sometimes you just have no time to call the police before you have to act.

 

[Metaphoreus]

Stand your ground isn't self-defense. Stand your ground allows people to go be vigilantes and then "wtf I fucked up, I gotta waste this criminal to defend myself after I've been the aggressor."

It's not self-defense, self-defense is "o shit this dude is attacking me I gotta defend myself from This dude that is following me and making me feel worried for my life."

It's stand your ground(vigilantes) versus self-defense(call police but able to protect yourself if someone else is the aggressor initially)

Stand Your Ground is undeniably self defense. If you are attacked, you have a right to stand your ground and meet force with force. In other words, it removes the generalized duty to retreat before deadly force can be employed, when deadly force would otherwise be justified. By it's terms, it isn't available to someone who is the initial aggressor, so your statement about what the law allows is simply false, as a matter of law.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I have no problem with Stand Your Ground if you're at a red light and some carjacker is trying to force you out of your car.

I have no problem with Stand Your Ground if you're walking and minding your business and someone tries to mug/attack you.

I have no problem with Stand Your Ground if you're at a store/bank and someone tries to rob it.

The problem I have with Stand Your Ground is that as it's written it's too vague. You shouldn't be able to follow someone then when they stand their ground you kill them and stand your ground.

 

[Octavion Rex]

Where did Ted Cruz even come from?

It seems like during the shutout all the talk started about some unknown guy with a Spanish last name from Canada.

I followed politics before this and never even heard of this dude.

Private practice in law, worked in politics, then he was the solicitor general for Texas. Now he is a senator from Texas. I first learned about him from his position as Solicitor General.

 

[zma1013]

I think you guys are ignoring the very important point that all these black people are armed with sidewalks. Sometimes, they even hold their sidewalk sideways.

 

[TUROK]

So they favor black people by 2 percent in comparison to whites.

That's really neat.

 

[Inversive]

Such a stupid law could only exist in 'Murica

 

[speculawyer]

American Elected Official, this one is. Jesus, Mary and Joseph what a waste of a seat.

And I'm sure you'll be delighted to know that he is viewed as their great new leader by much of the base of his party. They want to nominate him for president. And I suspect the Democrats want him nominated as well (but for different reasons obviously).

 

[fallagin]

Ted cruz can kiss my ass.

 

[speculawyer]

It is just weird. It is easy to understand the divide on guns in the USA. In the cities they are often murder tools that kill a lot of people including completely innocent victims. Many of the people in these cities want less guns because of that. In rural areas, people have guns as sport and for hunting but they are just not used in as many murders.

It is simple to understand the conflicting views but hard to resolve on what to do.

But Ted just comes across as a complete ass here by telling black people what is best for them. Especially when it is based on spurious data.

 

[Heshinsi]

Where did Ted Cruz even come from?

It seems like during the shutout all the talk started about some unknown guy with a Spanish last name from Canada.

I followed politics before this and never even heard of this dude.

One man's trash is another man's treasure. Thanks America lol

 

[WonkyPanda]

Such a stupid law could only exist in 'Murica

Well, this is a bit hyperbolic. Obviously, there's issues of arbitrariness and provisions in the law in certain states. I assume your position is that stand-your-ground can never be justified? I am perplexed because you make a blanket statement about the law, yet the law has no real uniformity among the states that employ it. The variances between each State's implementation should not lead one to merely label it as 'a Law;' this is not a Federal question.

 

[Maxim726X]

Wow... Had no idea he was a Harvard Law Grad.

So then he's not really stupid, just cleverly manipulative of a stupid populace.

Makes me feel a little better, honestly.

 

[GungHo]

Where did Ted Cruz even come from?

Lawyer (Solictor General) in Texas. Before that, he was in the FTC and a Deputy USAG. He's the darling of the Tea Party simply because he was both a high-flier in the back office of the Republican Party and no one ever heard of him outside of the Republican Party. He is basically a male Sarah Palin. He didn't exactly come out of nowhere to win the Texas Senate, but basically it was between him and David Dewhurst for the Republican primary, and he won the war against "the establishment". It was a very, very, very dirty campaign, and tremendously annoying if you were in his district. Which I am. Like every 15 minutes there was a commercial about him or Dewhurst, even during prime viewing. It was a gross waste of money. It was a "this amount of money spent on commercials could have fed Africa" waste of money. Even the dog walked out of the room. Seriously, just go Youtube it. He was even bragging about getting people executed FFS.

 

[WonkyPanda]

Lawyer (Solictor General) in Texas. Before that, he was in the FTC and a Deputy USAG. He's the darling of the Tea Party simply because he was both a high-flier in the back office of the Republican Party and no one ever heard of him outside of the Republican Party. He is basically a male Sarah Palin. He didn't exactly come out of nowhere to win the Texas Senate, but basically it was between him and David Dewhurst for the Republican primary, and he won the war against "the establishment". It was a very, very, very dirty campaign, and tremendously annoying if you were in his district. Which I am. Like every 15 minutes there was a commercial about him or Dewhurst, even during prime viewing. It was a gross waste of money. It was a "this amount of money spent on commercials could have fed Africa" waste of money. Even the dog walked out of the room. Seriously, just go Youtube it. He was even bragging about getting people executed FFS.

Doesn't hurt that he's a "minority." What better way to promulgate an agenda that disproportionately affects minorities than a minority himself pushing said agenda.