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The Assassin's Creed Shadows team has a message for our Japanese community
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
- Start date
- Community Game Dev
Doom85
Member
As long as one isn’t acting like a fucking idiot (*cough* Logan Paul *cough*), every person I’ve ever known or followed who went to Japan said the VAST majority of the people there were friendly and polite. Sure, a few of them encountered a rare case of open xenophobia/racism, but that was definitely the exception to the rule.
Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
Daniel_Mallorca1985
Member
Lack:
Assassin's Creed Syndicate - Location: London (England) - Character: Jacob Frye and Evie Frye, collectively known as the Frye twins (British)
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Doom85
Member
-“has nothing to do with assassin’s creed itself” The topic of the thread isn’t the topic of the thread? Are you for real right now?
-ah yes, I’m sure the vast majority of Japanese people, particularly gamers, have read that book. You’ve clearly mentally linked with all of them, Xavier using Cerebro-style, and spoken to them all about it as opposed to pulling a huge assumption out of your ass
-“race relations are almost irreparable“
You know, I just finished my shift, had a good talk with my co-worker about how we’re looking forward to Deadpool this weekend, but I was not aware that deep down he detested my white ass, all because a video game is being made about a black dude being a samurai assassin in Japan
-ah, blaming media on violence. Didn’t realize Jack Thompson was still active and posting on Neogaf to boot
-if grown ass adults are falling into alt-right parties, that’s their own fucking decision and they can live with it. Spare me this sob story of “well, the cultures wars pressured them!” Fucking pathetic excuse for horrible behavior.
-“people in the first world are petty” Wow, that’s mildly xenophobic.
-bro tells me to stop making everything about race as he proceeds to make EVERYTHING about race
Anyway, yes, just about all of Japan is so pissed about all this Yasuke stuff. Why, I’m sure no anime studio would ever animate a story around hi-
Yasuke (TV series) - Wikipedia
MAPPA - Wikipedia
Well, um, but the AC game itself! The Japanese are SO mad, this game will definitely bomb in sale-
Assassin's Creed Shadows Tops Amazon Japan's PS5 Best Sellers List
The standard edition of Assassin's Creed Shadows is currently the number one best-seller on Amazon Japan's PS5 Best Sellers list. It is priced around ...
www.spieltimes.com
Um, um, well CLEARLY they’re getting the game to take it outside and smash it to bit with a hammer! Y, y, yeah, that’s it! I mean, there’s no way that the above conspiracy theory could be, dare I say it, ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!!!
Raven117
Member
This. Apparently the Japanese government looked into it. Called him out. And now this guy is fired. He was basically ground zero of pushing the Yauske narrative.
Its just the way that that this was done is what is so chapping. Simply saying, “we wanted a black samurai because it’s cool” that’s fair enough. Buy or don’t buy at your discretion. Trying to say, Nono, he was 100 percent real (when that’s far from settled if not absolute lie) telling everyone they were racist for doubting them is the issue.
PLUS, for all the games that come out of Japan, actual depictions of Japanese people are somewhat rare (not anime). There really isn’t a lot of representation.
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Topher
Gold Member
MayauMiao
Member
VulcanRaven
Member
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
This is an absurd fallacy. Of course not. Ethnicity is in no way an indication of academic rigor.
And your source for the Yasuke Samurai narrative is confusing largely ambiguous conjecture for historical fact. Yasuke getting a stipend and a sword no more makes him a Samurai than my drama teacher giving me a whistle and a truncheon makes me a UK police officer.
CLW
Member
ssringo
Member
That's great and all but I thought the government concern was more about what the historian had supposedly done.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Note that my post clearly cited the person whose bio has him listed as a Japanese Historian, not just a random Japanese bloke off of 2chan.
So what are the historic facts then?
you should definitely never check out the very popular and very japanese; japanese spiderman (takuya yamashiro) or black captain america (first appeared in 2003)
Doom85
Member
Don’t forget Peni Parker.
Gerard Way Discusses His Marvel Debut with "Edge of Spider-Verse"
"Umbrella Academy" writer and rock singer Gerard Way talks with CBR News about the new, female Spider-Man he's introducing in "Spider-Verse."
www.cbr.com
Actually created by Gerard Way, one of the My Chemical Romance guys, he’s done comics like Umbrella Academy (that the show was based on), a run on DC’s Doom Patrol, etc.
genesisblock
Member
Your concern should be how it will be received in Japan, not how many copies it will theoretically sell (in primarily western counties).
I think he means race swapping in the US version and not an interpretation in Japan as the Emissary from Hell. And I think we're ok with Black Captain America: Brave New World that's coming soon.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
You know it.
Seems to be doing reasonably well.
Assassin's Creed Shadows Tops Amazon Japan's PS5 Best Sellers List
The standard edition of Assassin's Creed Shadows is currently the number one best-seller on Amazon Japan's PS5 Best Sellers list. It is priced around ...
www.spieltimes.com
Zannegan
Member
Can confirm. Japan was a lovely place to live in, even though I was a visible minority and didn't speak more than survival Japanese.
Werewolf Jones
Gold Member
It's complete brain rot garbage that's made accessible. Of course it will.
genesisblock
Member
Really Amazon? Unless that's where all the sales numbers are from that's news to me. Why don't we wait 1 month after the release and then we'll see.You know it.
Seems to be doing reasonably well.
Assassin's Creed Shadows Tops Amazon Japan's PS5 Best Sellers List
The standard edition of Assassin's Creed Shadows is currently the number one best-seller on Amazon Japan's PS5 Best Sellers list. It is priced around ...
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Sure, we can wait. But of course this long before release, these are the only kind of metrics we have to talk about.
Fbh
Gold Member
I'm in the middle point in this.
On the one hand who cares, the game is probably going to suck because of reasons beyond the protagonist and I don't really see how this is particularly different than stuff like Nioh or The Last Samurai, both of which I enjoyed.
AC has always taken lots of liberties with history and it's all based around a sci fi story about magical alien artifacts anyway. The fact there isn't a lot of real information about Yasuke make him a good character to just make up a story for him.
On the other hand though it's pretty obvious why they went with Yasuke, and the people saying they don't see how he is different from previous protagonists are being silly. AC might not have a precedent for being very historically accurate, but they have a history of using main characters who are ethnically and culturally from the place the game is set in (or that makes sense, given the context the story). That fact that for the first time they've had to use a historical figure to justify the main character says enough.
I can understand how Japanese fans of the franchise might be disappointed to finally get a game set in Japan and then have Ubisoft go look up some obscure historical figure to justify not having a Japanese Samurai in the game.
On the one hand who cares, the game is probably going to suck because of reasons beyond the protagonist and I don't really see how this is particularly different than stuff like Nioh or The Last Samurai, both of which I enjoyed.
AC has always taken lots of liberties with history and it's all based around a sci fi story about magical alien artifacts anyway. The fact there isn't a lot of real information about Yasuke make him a good character to just make up a story for him.
On the other hand though it's pretty obvious why they went with Yasuke, and the people saying they don't see how he is different from previous protagonists are being silly. AC might not have a precedent for being very historically accurate, but they have a history of using main characters who are ethnically and culturally from the place the game is set in (or that makes sense, given the context the story). That fact that for the first time they've had to use a historical figure to justify the main character says enough.
I can understand how Japanese fans of the franchise might be disappointed to finally get a game set in Japan and then have Ubisoft go look up some obscure historical figure to justify not having a Japanese Samurai in the game.
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wow, i never knew that about the MCR guy!Don’t forget Peni Parker.
Gerard Way Discusses His Marvel Debut with "Edge of Spider-Verse"
"Umbrella Academy" writer and rock singer Gerard Way talks with CBR News about the new, female Spider-Man he's introducing in "Spider-Verse."
Actually created by Gerard Way, one of the My Chemical Romance guys, he’s done comics like Umbrella Academy (that the show was based on), a run on DC’s Doom Patrol, etc.
i gotta say, her character design was never my favorite because im not a big fan of mechs (although the mech suits do look pretty fucking cool), but her backstory is pretty sick and she makes for a good spiderman.
also, while looking up some examples to reinforce the idea that Yasuke is an established popular character in Japanese culture and media i found this sick ass manga that dropped in 2016 about if a time traveling boxer went back as took the place of Yasuke. if anybody can find a link to read it please toss it here
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Lokaum D+
Member
he was a nobody that Nobunaga liked cause the color of his skin, he followed Nobunaga and when Nobunaga died he was gone, he had 0 relevance on Japanese history, thats is the facts, u can dance around all you want, it ll change nothing.
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geary
Member
Yes, i have the same concern as how Star Wars will be received on Tatooine
Lokaum D+
Member
A question just popped in my mind, Why everyone was angry at Sucker Punch for doing GoT but everyone is OK with Ubi doing this shit work ?
and lets not forget that SP did an amazing job portraying Japanese culture and yet it receive substantial more backlash than Ubi is getting right now.
and lets not forget that SP did an amazing job portraying Japanese culture and yet it receive substantial more backlash than Ubi is getting right now.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Your question would make sense if it started off honestly. Not everyone was angry at Sucker Punch. A bunch of idiots accused them of cultural appropriation but were laughed at. It became worse when the island of Tsushima made the studio ambassadors of the island thanks to their great work.
Trying to frame it as a double standard is dishonest as the controversy surrounding AC Shadows from the start was far far more polarizing and virulent than anything regarding Ghost of Tsushima.
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Lokaum D+
Member
Zannegan
Member
To be fair, a lot of the same outlets that were "concerned" about Tsushima are the same ones that are praising this to high heaven.
But, to your point, that doesn't mean it's a double standard or an agenda-driven oversight. You could assume the outlet learned its lesson or that it's different people at the helm.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
The implication that people were raging as GOT but fine with Shadows is completely false and you know it.
That poster thought they had a gotcha moment but did not. There was no virulent campaign demanding GOT to be canceled, there weren't hundreds of thousands of dislikes on the trailers, there weren't hundreds of videos talking about the various controversies. Anyone trying to say that GOT's initial reception was more negative than AC Shadows is either lying or wasn't paying attention. Since that poster has been on Gaf since 2019, I'll go with the former.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Anyone can call themselves a historian. Doesn't mean they have the credentials to actually back that up. And when they make up shit like this guy does about Yasuke and call it historical fact, it's clear that this guy is anything but.
There are very scanty and very few. There was a black man of African descent in ancient Japan. Oda Nobunaga took a liking to him, gave him a stipend and a sword. There isn't much beyond that of any real note.
Anything else is fanciful conjecture on the part of the narrator. We know basically fuck all about this historical figure. Which is why his current popularity is so infuriating to both Japanese and Black people alike. The only thing of note about Yasuke was that he was a black man in Japan. It's hardly an earth-shattering achievement worthy of the admiration, adulation and endless romanticizing fantasy we currently see.
There was far more worthy historical black characters to talk about. But Yasuke is not intended for black audiences. His prominence is the result of a sick fetishization of middle-class white liberal cuckolds.
VulcanRaven
Member
This has received much more attention. I don't even remember much backlash about GoT.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I am confused, you're calling an actual historian who has written multiple books on the Sengoku period as someone who 'make shit up' but want people to trust you, a forum poster, without citing any actual articles etc ?
He was given a stipend, house and allowed to carry swords. I don't know much but that sounds like he was given similar treatment to samurai's.
Will AC Shadows over-state his real life accomplishments? Of course, it's a fucking video game.
Most, if not all, of the thing da Vinci designs for Ezio in AC2 were also not things that were made in real life beyond possibly conceptions or drawings.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Whether he was a samurai or not isn't all that relevant so I'm not sure why people get hung up about that. Even assuming he was, it wouldn't tell us a much more about his accomplishments. There is some evidence suggesting he was, but no one can say for sure.
The larger problem is that he essentially took the spot of other more deserving black characters. My issue is that western media go on and on about black representation but their efforts are mainly restricted to race-swapping known characters or romanticizing historical ones to extreme levels such as Yasuke. If they were so concerned about representing black people, they would go out of their way to present lesser known history and characters who have much more information about them. Why pick the one black man in Japan of the time without that much written about him rather than someone such as Sundiata Keita who founded the Mali Empire? Hell, there's even a black woman named Amanirenas who was queen of the Kushite who engaged freakin' Roman legions and probably had her troops steal a bust of Augustus. The war against the Romans apparently halted their expansion to some parts of Africa but you never hear about her.
In summary, if those people were really concerned about the history and representation of black people, they would research black historical figures and set their stories in black societies/civilizations, but they aren't and are merely interested in the money, which is why they won't take risks by using lesser known empires but instead more famous ones guaranteed to generate interest and money and simply shoehorn black people into them (such as the one with a black woman jarl, GTFO with this shit).
I went a bit on a tangent, but Yasuke wouldn't have been my first choice. I think he's very interesting given the circumstances surrounding his existence and what he saw, but making him into that mythological figure and inventing so much stuff about him to aggrandize him is moronic. For the record, I don't mind Yasuke at all and think he's awesome, but his inclusion does nothing to teach people (or at least make them aware) more about black historical figures or events that Ubisoft managed to do in the past.
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semiconscious
Member
well, in the game, da vinci also didn't parkour the rooftops & assassinate anyone. neither did any other historic figure making an appearance in an assassin's creed game. because, in every other ac game, you never played as an actual historic figure. despite ubi's denial, ac shadows is not 'business as usual'. they've never before had to go to the trouble of digging up someone real in order to justify their choice of a protagonist. which, of course, they're completely free to do. it's just that, whether you're good with it or not, I think that it's sorta hard to deny what's going on...
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Keep in mind Yasuke is just a co-protagonist and there's a Japanese person as the lead co-protagonist along with him.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Anyone can study a masters degree and write books. Doesn't mean he's a credible historian.
Again the mere fact that he seems to confuse his own conjecture regarding Yasuke as historical fact is enough to let me know everything I need to about this brand of "historian".
Again, this doesn't mean he was a fucking Samurai, FFS.
It's circumstantial evidence combined with a massive leap of logic. If Yasuke trained in actual Samurai Sword techniques and swore himself to his master Oda Nobunaga as a Bonafide Samurai, I guarantee that the historical record would have explicitly called him a Samurai.
The mere fact that the scanty record that does exist doesn't mention anything of the sort, makes it clear Yasuke was not a Samurai. He was Nobunaga's mascot.
Who fucking cares about this? Who is arguing this?
My gripe has nothing to do with the historicity of his portrayal as a Samurai and everything to do with his inclusion in the game as nothing more than a token black dude.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
It's really not that much of a stretch. You're playing around with history in a 17 year old franchise, eventually you're going to play as a fictionalized version of a historical figure or an analogue to one. And Naoe is the fictional daughter of a real historical figure btw.
I've said it before: I don't think Ubisoft would've had Yasuke as a protagonist 10 years ago. I doubt that they'd have Naoe or another woman as a playable character either (although they were already doing the whole double bill thing by Syndicate).
It's just not worth the hysteria. Up until this point, nobody batted an eye at fictional versions of Yasuke out of Japan that cast him as a samurai or some type of warrior.
"But those were fantasy games, this claims to be historical fiction!" What's the difference? The name of the genre is just a name - it doesn't actually address the content. Ancient aliens, gods and other scifi shit qualify AC as fantasy as well. Ironically, people who claim to be real Japanese culture respecters are admitting a biased importance places on western media by drawing all of these arbitrary lines to explain why this is oh so bad.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
The leap in logic isn't massive at all. That's why the main conclusion is: it's uncertain. There are certainly pointers to suggest that he was but no definitive proof. In the absence of certainty, you don't state something is a fact.
That wasn't really a thing during Nobunaga's time as far as I'm aware. Hideyoshi who took over after Nobounaga actually solidified and restricted the class of samurai and made the demarcation of the rank much clearer. Hideyoshi himself was a daimyo but there's nothing specifically saying when he became a samurai. It's assumed that when he was doing important bureaucratic work for Nobuanga, he had already become a samurai. The fact that he was also a daimyo also pretty much implies that he was a samurai at one point or another.
What makes Yasuke so contentious is his foreign status. If he was Japanese born with the exact same things known about him, it's doubtful his status as a samurai would be so hotly debated.
The bottom line is, going "He didn't train in sword combat or swore himself to a lord," isn't much of an argument when it comes to samurais during Nobunaga's reign. The rank was flexible and varied quite a bit throughout the ages prior to Hideyoshi's takeover and it's a bit difficult to find known samurais who were recorded doing such things at the time.
On the flipside, I don't think credible experts say he definitely wasn't. It's more like, he might have been, but we don't know for sure.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
But based on what's available, he did stand out whereever he went and drew people's attention for looking different. His token-ness is historically accurate as well.
If Hirayama is not a credible historian here, then who is?
Kinda weird to just dismiss someone with decade(s) of history in the field just because he doesn't align with your point of view.
semiconscious
Member
agree regarding the hysteria. it's ubi's game/franchise, to do with what they will, & it's not like what they're doing is revolutionary or unheard of. but i'm still of the opinion that this breaking with precedent, & seeking out historic justification for the choice of protagonist, can't help but come off as feeling 'cooked'. i mean, as you mention, naoe's fictional. just as have been all other ac protagonists...
all i'm pointing out is that this choice of yasuke as protag can be both. it can be a free, considered choice, completely at the discretion of the developer, & it can also feel a bit overt/manipulative. it can be, quite non-hysterically, both things at once. & i happen to think it very obviously is both...
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
It's whatever Ubisoft thinks can get them the most money.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
I agree. But that's not what I'm doing.
I'm calling into question his credibility based on his certainty that Yasuke was a samurai based on almost fuck all evidence. That's not good practice for any credible historian.
Good historians are humble and honest enough to state "I don't know" when there's insufficient evidence. This dude states "there is no doubt..." which is demonstrable horseshit. Of course there's doubt. It reeks of intellectual dishonesty at best and at worst, pure fucking arrogance.
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Tams
Member
The British also made pirates 'privateers'. That doesn't change that there were pirates who were British, and all parts of the UK had people trying to seek their fortunes overseas. Even the Welsh, who went as far as Patagonia.
Besides, Ubisoft never made a big noise of him being Welsh.
semiconscious
Member
yep. you can choose to either play or not play a game, & you can explain your choice. &, personally, that's about as far as i'm willing to take it...
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