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[EDMIX]

A black person is one of TWO playable characters in a video game series that revises history so it includes Illumaniti-level conspiracy, magical Pope, Medusa, and Valhalla as an actual place…..and you can survive a fall from a thousand feet up by landing in some hay.

CALM
THE
FUCK
DOWN.

​

You’re going to outdo the RE 5 melodrama at this point. It’s a video game, it’s not about to collapse society, it was stupid when our parents screamed Mortal Kombat was going to do that in the 90’s, and it’s stupid now. In other words:

Pretty much, its getting to those levels of loony.

Its almost as if people really want the game to be making some deep historical claim to cry victim from something. I remember thinking like, why would someone be so triggered over Mortal Kombat to buy the game to break it in front of some building or something, same with Doom and all those titles in the 90s that people were just on witch hunts against lol

Harry Potter is the devil, why is Charmander from Pokeman demonic lol (you have to say it like Poke MAN) lol


So its wild to see things come full circle as an adult and to hear first hand adults making these weird narratives.

 

[Acidjuice]

my favorite part of this thread was seeing people being proven wrong with plenty of examples and facts and then resorting to nothing but name calling and blocking.
people just want to be mad about this for no good reason.

 

[IAmRei]

People who defends UBI and ACS, are clearly didn't understand why DEI is hated, You will see someday, just like majority back before when people still support it : ))

 

[Masterofchapter]

People who defends UBI and ACS, are clearly didn't understand why DEI is hated, You will see someday, just like majority back before when people still support it : ))

Here is why dei hated, Hollywood has no diversity before dei no Hollywood gives important to diversity, your fragile ego doesn't allow you to accept Hollywood humanising lgqbt people, African Americans, woman empowerment, Asians, you only want to white males and white females as damsel in distress.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

 

[Hypnotoad]

How were they trying to pass off the game as historically accurate? What AC game ever has been historically accurate?

Historically accurate isn't the right word here, but verisimilitude is. The verisimilitude of their fiction - e.g. the lifelikeness and believability of their setting is what Assasin's Creed used to get right. You had historical places, people and events as the backdrop to the story of the games, and they were weaved together in slick fashion. Basically you see history unfolding in a way that is mostly accurate on the surface level, but then, through your player character, experience the "hidden truth" that was wiped from the historical records. That's why you play an Asssasin that has been wiped from the annals, because he or she needs to stay... well, in the shadows. This character fits the setting so as to be able to blend in seamlessly, which was actually a smart decision, since it blends gameplay (stealth) with story (being part of a secret organization) and overall setting (the eternal fight against the Templars and the secret annals of our world). And this worked both with Ezio in Constantinople, since it was one of the most diverse cities of the time, as well as Connor, pirates also being a mixed bunch of different ethnicities.

With Yasuke and the depiction of Japan, this is pretty much all thrown out the window, the setting is already a joke on the asthetic surface level of believability, with obvious architectural, cultural, and topology-related blunders observable in the few trailers and gameplay clips released so far. So much of it is low-effort without any serious research done, and that's not even mentioning the copyright infringement and copypasting of artwork from other eras. Yasuke also breaking the precedent of previous protagonists only shatters the verisimilitude even further for the aforementioned reason. Which is all good and fine, but the one saving grace of the franchise is its setting, not the gameplay.

 

[kruis]

That was an interesting watch. Yasuke was a historical figure but his story was put on the map, reinvented and recreated by the British language teacher and part-time historian Thomas Lockley. This started when Lockley extensively rewrote the Wikipedia article on Yakuse back in 2015 before anyone else who knew who he was. And then when Lockley wrote his book on Yasuke that became the main trusted source on this historical figure. The problem being that there's almost no written evidence on Yasuke, Lockley had a marked tendency to hide that fact when writing for a western audience and wrote in the missing parts and lied about the book being intensively fact checked by Japanese historians.

Now Lockley has officially been removed from the Nihon University staff list and his NHK television program was delisted. Lockley closed all of his social media accounts. The Japanese parliament is furious about his claim that Japanese 16th warlords used black slave labor.

 

[yet_another_alt]

I agree with some posters here that devs should be able to make a game however they want. That said the drama around Lockley is pure gold. Lots of places call him a historian but as far as I can tell he's an amateur historian. He was working at Nihon University in an unrelated field. I don't know about the claims that he's a glorified English teacher but how the hell was he able to dupe so many by basically doing this:

 

[Panajev2001a]

A black person is one of TWO playable characters in a video game series that revises history so it includes Illumaniti-level conspiracy, magical Pope, Medusa, and Valhalla as an actual place…..and you can survive a fall from a thousand feet up by landing in some hay.

CALM
THE
FUCK
DOWN.

​

You’re going to outdo the RE 5 melodrama at this point. It’s a video game, it’s not about to collapse society, it was stupid when our parents screamed Mortal Kombat was going to do that in the 90’s, and it’s stupid now. In other words:

Yes and… sometimes this is a slippery slope to bad faith arguments “you need to take concept X but not concept Y because we said so” and I think the following does not to a too horrible job at covering that (although this was more a RoP thingy extracted into a meme I think):

 

[DelireMan7]

The problem here seems to be that this has reached levels that can possibly actually do some harm, apparently people are tampering with Wikipedia (to make it look like Yasuke was 100% confirmed to be a samurai and such) due to this shit and even the Japanese government has started to investigate the situation. And all this started because some idiots started a petition to cancel the game due to the misrepresentation of Japan...
I mean, I can understand people being disappointed about not having a female and male Japanese protagonist, I literally raised an eyebrow when I first saw it, but this cultural war bullshit that brings out the worst in people from both sides is just annoying. Were do we draw the line? If the petition that these idiots created became successful and Ubisoft had to make AC Shadows more historically accurate, where would we draw the line? Would that mean that from now on every other piece of entertainment that was set in historical settings had to be historically accurate or else it would be banned? It's such a silly argument when you really think about it.
If Ubisoft really wants to have their product to have Yasuke as a protag, let them, other games that might suit your preferences will eventually come out.

Fully agree with you.
I admit it was surprising to get a Black protagonist in Japan setting. But in the end it makes sense :

• There is a japanese protagonist too (but not being male seems to disqualify her for many people)
• It's a good way to differentiate the game from recent game with similar setting (Ghost of Tsushima is a prime example)
• Yasuke story is unclear making it a perfect historical character for a historical fiction game. It allows the use of a real historical character and makes a story out of it. By the past they did it with real historical character but nobody complain...

People getting offended about everything is scary. People speak about "cultural appropriation" over a video game while, as you said, there is plenty of other option in this setting if you don't like the way AC : Shadows is going.
Anyway for me it just people like to buzz on internet. The game will still sell pretty well, like every AC, and Ubisoft will move on to the next one.

Don't pretend like they weren't trying to present Yasuke's story as some sort of reality tale before it all blew up in their faces.

They weren't. From the early announcement and statement, they clearly said that Yasuke was a mysterious historical character and little is really known about it. They made it a samurai in their "historical and fictional" video game franchise.
I am not a particular fan of Ubisoft and I know people like to shit on them but on this case the issue is coming from angry people. On this matter Ubisoft played it clear for me.

 

[Spacefish]

A black person is one of TWO playable characters in a video game series that revises history so it includes Illumaniti-level conspiracy, magical Pope, Medusa, and Valhalla as an actual place…..and you can survive a fall from a thousand feet up by landing in some hay.

CALM
THE
FUCK
DOWN.

​

You’re going to outdo the RE 5 melodrama at this point. It’s a video game, it’s not about to collapse society, it was stupid when our parents screamed Mortal Kombat was going to do that in the 90’s, and it’s stupid now. In other words:

You dont understand the situation at all. This has nothing to do with assassins creed itself, it is a symptom of a wider cultural issue. This shitty game is merely a trigger for surfacing much larger, older resentments. The Japanese are pissed because thomas lockley insinuated in his book that the Japanese were slave owners, this is a fabrication and it touches on the comfort women issue which is a giant political pitfall between Korea and Japan, whether you agree with the Japanese or not the rift between them and the Koreans is real because they believe it is historical revisionism and the Koreans do not. If you were to believe thomas lockleys bullshit then black people would then have reason to resent the Japanese as former slavers, this is not a video game issue it is history being re written to accommodate videogame bullshit. (the Wikipedia page is still a giant battleground in both japan and the west, both triggered by this game). Race relations in America are almost irreparable because of a history that is then transplanted onto Europe where it doesnt belong, this leads to BLM riots is countries with barely any black people, unarmed police and no history of harsh racial policing. Mass Media consumption is the number 1 cause of this (this includes videogames).

Black people who do not understand the deeper issue and merely interpret it as millions of racist Japanese and white people are going to live their lives with the assumption they are so hated people will seek to ban a game because they cant stand to look at them, it then becomes a hostile self fulfilling worldview. culture wars in the west are leading to a rise in far right parties across the globe, race relations have plummeted in the past 10 years (going from 72% of whites feeling good about them and 66% of black Americans in 2013 to 43% and 33% respectively), why?

If you want to stick your head in the ground and be myopic about this then nothing matters, sit back and let the destructive cultural forces mold you and everything around you. People in the first world are petty, if you make everything about race and you keep annoying them with grievance politics the problems that will hit you transcend media.

 

[genesisblock]

This whole thing could've been avoided if they apply the same standard from all the AC games to this one. Really. That's it. Controversy exists not because Yasuke is a samurai, it's controversial because they would not do this any in any other setting. Period.

For instance, how come I didn't get to play as Brutus in AC: Origins so we can end up killing Julius Ceasar before his famous quote?

Spoiler: Ending

Instead it fell into Aya who initiated the killing

.

 

[Fess]

That was an interesting watch. Yasuke was a historical figure but his story was put on the map, reinvented and recreated by the British language teacher and part-time historian Thomas Lockley. This started when Lockley extensively rewrote the Wikipedia article on Yakuse back in 2015 before anyone else who knew who he was. And then when Lockley wrote his book on Yasuke that became the main trusted source on this historical figure. The problem being that there's almost no written evidence on Yasuke, Lockley had a marked tendency to hide that fact when writing for a western audience and wrote in the missing parts and lied about the book being intensively fact checked by Japanese historians.

Now Lockley has officially been removed from the Nihon University staff list and his NHK television program was delisted. Lockley closed all of his social media accounts. The Japanese parliament is furious about his claim that Japanese 16th warlords used black slave labor.

It’s downright scary that it’s so easy to essentially rewrite history. But great that it’s also possible to backtrack and get evidence that it has been done.

 

[Acidjuice]

You dont understand the situation at all. This has nothing to do with assassins creed itself, it is a symptom of a wider cultural issue. This shitty game is merely a trigger for surfacing much larger, older resentments. The Japanese are pissed because thomas lockley insinuated in his book that the Japanese were slave owners, this is a fabrication and it touches on the comfort women issue which is a giant political pitfall between Korea and Japan, whether you agree with the Japanese or not the rift between them and the Koreans is real because they believe it is historical revisionism and the Koreans do not. If you were to believe thomas lockleys bullshit then black people would then have reason to resent the Japanese as former slavers, this is not a video game issue it is history being re written to accommodate videogame bullshit. (the Wikipedia page is still a giant battleground in both japan and the west, both triggered by this game). Race relations in America are almost irreparable because of a history that is then transplanted onto Europe where it doesnt belong, this leads to BLM riots is countries with barely any black people, unarmed police and no history of harsh racial policing. Mass Media consumption is the number 1 cause of this (this includes videogames).

Black people who do not understand the deeper issue and merely interpret it as millions of racist Japanese and white people are going to live their lives with the assumption they are so hated people will seek to ban a game because they cant stand to look at them, it then becomes a hostile self fulfilling worldview. culture wars in the west are leading to a rise in far right parties across the globe, race relations have plummeted in the past 10 years (going from 72% of whites feeling good about them and 66% of black Americans in 2013 to 43% and 33% respectively), why?

If you want to stick your head in the ground and be myopic about this then nothing matters, sit back and let the destructive cultural forces mold you and everything around you. People in the first world are petty, if you make everything about race and you keep annoying them with grievance politics the problems that will hit you transcend media.

you really try to push emotions onto black people, as well as make wild assumptions about a video game causing riots to justify your point and that is truly insane. this is coming from a black person. also to insinuate that i don't understand the topic at hand because i dont carry the same extreme viewpoint as you is stright up insulting. blaming the current state of race relations on western media representation ignores the actual socio-political issues that cause it like decades of unfair legal treatment, being the target for harassment, murder, hell even the long eras of slavery and indentured servitude.

 

[DavidGzz]

This was the cuckiest way to tell the Japanese market to go pound sand and that they’re keeping the woke crap in the game.

Idk, bending the knee to them seems more cucky to me.

 

[Trilobit]

Considering how movies from the Western world so rarely have male Asian leads in big movies really explains the deep-rooted racist attitudes that fuel people's hate towards the idea of a Japanese man as the main character in this game.

It's strange how there's such a widespread intense hate towards East Asian males in the Western world and it deserves its own discussion. It's good that this debate is lifting up the problems of anti-Asian racism.

 

[Spacefish]

you really try to push emotions onto black people, as well as make wild assumptions about a video game causing riots to justify your point and that is truly insane. this is coming from a black person. also to insinuate that i don't understand the topic at hand because i dont carry the same extreme viewpoint as you is stright up insulting. blaming the current state of race relations on western media representation ignores the actual socio-political issues that cause it like decades of unfair legal treatment, being the target for harassment, murder, hell even the long eras of slavery and indentured servitude.

nope, I'm not pushing shit onto anyone, I've read comments from black people seeing millions of people in outrage and saying it is fucking with their world view. Of course, if you interpret this as a racist outrage as almost everyone of a certain political persuasion does, you would naturally conclude the world is completely, irredeemably racist and if you weren't paying attention you may conclude its 1000x more racist than you did prior to this fuckup. This isn't just about black people I am making a wider point about historical revisionism and identity politics, another recent case of hundreds of graves discovered in Canada, supposedly of indigenous children, causing outrage where multiple churches were burnt down. They then discovered years later that there were no bodies, no retraction was ever printed, the damage to race relations was already done, history was already fucked with.

You're ignoring my point that American history and American sin is being transplanted into countries where it does not belong. Never before in history did we have riots in America due to American cultural and historical issues that bleed over into riots in europe where the majority of the black population are economic migrants with a completely different context. You're bringing up slavery as a core reason why race relations are shit while telling me to ignore the fact that someone is trying to put that sin on a nation who had nothing to do with it.

 

[STARSBarry]

A black person is one of TWO playable characters in a video game series that revises history so it includes Illumaniti-level conspiracy, magical Pope, Medusa, and Valhalla as an actual place…..and you can survive a fall from a thousand feet up by landing in some hay.

CALM
THE
FUCK
DOWN.

​

You’re going to outdo the RE 5 melodrama at this point. It’s a video game, it’s not about to collapse society, it was stupid when our parents screamed Mortal Kombat was going to do that in the 90’s, and it’s stupid now. In other words:

To be fair Japan has always been suspicious of foreigners, that's why it's such a monoculture. That is largely because the yanks nuked them though... twice.

 

[Acidjuice]

nope, I'm not pushing shit onto anyone, I've read comments from black people seeing millions of people in outrage and saying it is fucking with their world view. Of course, if you interpret this as a racist outrage as almost everyone of a certain political persuasion does, you would naturally conclude the world is completely, irredeemably racist and if you weren't paying attention you may conclude its 1000x more racist than you did prior to this fuckup. This isn't just about black people I am making a wider point about historical revisionism and identity politics, another recent case of hundreds of graves discovered in Canada, supposedly of indigenous children, causing outrage where multiple churches were burnt down. They then discovered years later that there were no bodies, no retraction was ever printed, the damage to race relations was already done, history was already fucked with.

You're ignoring my point that American history and American sin is being transplanted into countries where it does not belong. Never before in history did we have riots in America due to American cultural and historical issues that bleed over into riots in europe where the majority of the black population are economic migrants with a completely different context. You're bringing up slavery as a core reason why race relations are shit while telling me to ignore the fact that someone is trying to put that sin on a nation who had nothing to do with it.

is your point that japan never had slaves, or that japan never had black slaves? i havent seen a single person equate the slavery that factually did happen in japan to the chattel slavery that occured in north america. you also misunderstand the reason for the european ( i assume you mean the UK specifically ) riots as they have always had their own problems with discrimination which sparked their own retaliation. when topics of revolution in countries that have nothing to do with american minorities makes global news, it inspires conversation from everyone who reads it and is interested. you are falsely equating events and using that to justify a very extreme mindset. please correct me if im wrong.

 

[Spacefish]

is your point that japan never had slaves, or that japan never had black slaves? i havent seen a single person equate the slavery that factually did happen in japan to the chattel slavery that occured in north america. you also misunderstand the reason for the european ( i assume you mean the UK specifically ) riots as they have always had their own problems with discrimination which sparked their own retaliation. when topics of revolution in countries that have nothing to do with american minorities makes global news, it inspires conversation from everyone who reads it and is interested. you are falsely equating events and using that to justify a very extreme mindset. please correct me if im wrong.

Japan never had black slaves because first of all there were barely any black people in the country and beyond that they were actually the victim of slavers during that period, foreigners in their land were taking Asian women and selling them as concubines, this enraged the daimyo who then sought to ban Christian preaching as a result. So to insinuate as Thomas Lockley does, that after yasuke, black slaves became fashionable among the Japanese elite it is doubly insulting and dangerous for the reasons I have already discussed. No I didn't mean the UK specifically as those riots broke out across multiple countries in mainland Europe, even if I agree with you that the European BLM riots were merely inspired by then fuelled by home grown resentments it doesnt change my point at all. Resentment is contagious, this is dangerous and implanting sins like slavery into cultures where it does not belong makes this contagion worse. It is not rational or morally justifiable for people to riot over issues that are about another countries context and history.

I dont know how you can say I'm falsely equating events when the European riots were undeniably a response to what happened In America and you yourself are admitting its because of mass media. you can keep repeating that I have an extreme mindset but none of the opinions I hold are extreme, they are all easy to observe. The majority of jokes from black influencers are about which do gamers hate more, women or black people, every article from games journalists are about how this is a racist backlash, I've seen news articles from major news outlets like the BBC stating it was only racist people who had an issue with the game, where do you think this leads? to less polarisation? better race relations?

 

[Acidjuice]

Japan never had black slaves because first of all there were barely any black people in the country and beyond that they were actually the victim of slavers during that period, foreigners in their land were taking Asian women and selling them as concubines, this enraged the daimyo who then sought to ban Christian preaching as a result. So to insinuate as Thomas Lockley does, that after yasuke, black slaves became fashionable among the Japanese elite it is doubly insulting and dangerous for the reasons I have already discussed. No I didn't mean the UK specifically as those riots broke out across multiple countries in mainland Europe, even if I agree with you that the European BLM riots were merely inspired by then fuelled by home grown resentments it doesnt change my point at all. Resentment is contagious, this is dangerous and implanting sins like slavery into cultures where it does not belong makes this contagion worse. It is not rational or morally justifiable for people to riot over issues that are about another countries context and history.

I dont know how you can say I'm falsely equating events when the European riots were undeniably a response to what happened In America and you yourself are admitting its because of mass media. you can keep repeating that I have an extreme mindset but none of the opinions I hold are extreme, they are all easy to observe. The majority of jokes from black influencers are about which do gamers hate more, women or black people, every article from games journalists are about how this is a racist backlash, I've seen news articles from major news outlets like the BBC stating it was only racist people who had an issue with the game, where do you think this leads? to less polarisation? better race relations?

okay so you admit that european riots were over homegrown issues, but then you go right back to your point of riots over another countries issues being "not morally justifiable"; a false equivocation as you have no examples of that actually happening. also japan like almost all other nations had a period of systemic slavery that lasted for nearly 1000 years, notably trading with the portugese whom had a very well established slave trade with many african nations. you do not know what you are talking about and most of your points equate to fear mongering with no factual or rational basis. also nowhere di i say anything about riots being caused by mass media, i only said that global news brings certain topics to light, and readers of that news contextualize it however they can.

as for your anecdotal point about black content creators, as a point of anecdotal evidence, people are frothingly mad about "DEI" which is inclusion of women and minorities in spotlight positions. Not only thatbut since their career caters to the public, it only makes sense for them to address issues that the public is discussing. i think youre losing your point due to a lack of a rational basis in which to argue.

 

[GymWolf]

Unlike Cleopatra yaskue actually existed

 

[Spacefish]

okay so you admit that european riots were over homegrown issues, but then you go right back to your point of riots over another countries issues being "not morally justifiable"; a false equivocation as you have no examples of that actually happening. also japan like almost all other nations had a period of systemic slavery that lasted for nearly 1000 years, notably trading with the portugese whom had a very well established slave trade with many african nations. you do not know what you are talking about and most of your points equate to fear mongering with no factual or rational basis. also nowhere di i say anything about riots being caused by mass media, i only said that global news brings certain topics to light, and readers of that news contextualize it however they can.

as for your anecdotal point about black content creators, as a point of anecdotal evidence, people are frothingly mad about "DEI" which is inclusion of women and minorities in spotlight positions. Not only thatbut since their career caters to the public, it only makes sense for them to address issues that the public is discussing. i think youre losing your point due to a lack of a rational basis in which to argue.

No I dont, I was merely conceding that point to make the larger point that it doesnt matter whether they were focused on home grown issues, resentment is contagious and dangerous, this is why I dislike resentment politics on which this entire political movement and on which the assassins creed fiasco is based. I personally believe the riots were in no small part due to black populations in Europe that consume more American media than European and through this had absorbed their resentment over slavery and militant policing.

Now you're being pedantic because you know you've lost that argument, black slavery in japan was negligible to non existent, whether Japanese people had Japanese slaves is completely irrelevant to this discussion about resentment politics, race relations and tensions. I'm not fear mongering since I'm pointing to actual declines in attitudes around race relations, the rise of far right parties and polarisation over the past 10 years, you are proving no evidence in this argument while I'm pointing to undeniable social and political trends. news IS mass media and consumers will contextualise news based on their worldview which is again massively informed by the media they consume.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make at the end, I never denied nor defended the existence of anti-DEI activists, this loops back round to my point that assassins creed has led to another round of arguments between extremists leading to further polarisation, the opposite of what was intended.

 

[Bernardougf]

Unlike Cleopatra yaskue actually existed

The black Cleopatra from Netflix exists as much as the black samurai from Ubisoft...

 

[genesisblock]

I'm amazed there are still people handwaving this as it didn't escalate. First, it was just a few overreacting forum posters then it was a , bunch of racists, then it became a few racists masquerading as Japanese then it's just a "few" offended right-ring asians now it got to the point where you can't keep the lid on it.

Maybe it's time you guys realize your attempts to downplay this situation will only fuel more attempts. Take the L. We have a game that already has taken the opposite route which is Ghost of Tsushima, a highly rated title developed my a non-Japanese entity and it has NONE of the issues Shadows has. So why doesn't anyone who defend Shadows push Ubisoft to just meet that expectation?

 

[Acidjuice]

No I dont, I was merely conceding that point to make the larger point that it doesnt matter whether they were focused on home grown issues, resentment is contagious and dangerous, this is why I dislike resentment politics on which this entire political movement and on which the assassins creed fiasco is based. I personally believe the riots were in no small part due to black populations in Europe that consume more American media than European and through this had absorbed their resentment over slavery and militant policing.

Now you're being pedantic because you know you've lost that argument, black slavery in japan was negligible to non existent, whether Japanese people had Japanese slaves is completely irrelevant to this discussion about resentment politics, race relations and tensions. I'm not fear mongering since I'm pointing to actual declines in attitudes around race relations, the rise of far right parties and polarisation over the past 10 years, you are proving no evidence in this argument while I'm pointing to undeniable social and political trends. news IS mass media and consumers will contextualise news based on their worldview which is again massively informed by the media they consume.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make at the end, I never denied nor defended the existence of anti-DEI activists, this loops back round to my point that assassins creed has led to another round of arguments between extremists leading to further polarisation, the opposite of what was intended.

i will now prove that i won this argument using your own words.
" I personally believe the riots were in no small part due to black populations in Europe that consume more American media..."

These are your perosnal beliefs and do not reflect real life socio-political movements across the world which have a real basis in cultural, social, and political issues.

"This shitty game is merely a trigger for surfacing much larger, older resentments. The Japanese are pissed because thomas lockley insinuated in his book that the Japanese were slave owners, this is a fabrication"

" You're ignoring my point that American history and American sin is being transplanted into countries where it does not belong "

" Japan never had black slaves because first of all there were barely any black people in the country and beyond that they were actually the victim of slavers"

" black slavery in japan was negligible to non existent"

All quotes from you that contradict each other, the idea of black slaves in japan is not "transplanting American sin into countries where it doesn't belong", it is merely a reference to a period of history.

"Race relations in America are almost irreparable because of a history that is then transplanted onto Europe where it doesnt belong, this leads to BLM riots is countries with barely any black people, unarmed police and no history of harsh racial policing. Mass Media consumption is the number 1 cause of this"

A false statement that you cannot and have not backed up with any factual evidence whatsoever. Which leads to my point of your extreme fantasies that western media can cause riots in places where no real cultural, political, or social conflicts exist.

Please re-read both of our posts and go learn a thing or two. Im not sure where you get your information from but it has certainly contorted YOUR world view.

 

[Tams]

Similar to how Yasuke was verifiably in Japan?

Verifiable and the norm.

Pretty much nothing about Yasuke is verifiable, and there are exactly zero other known black people of note within that time period in Japan.

So Ubisoft could make a believable fictional character for Black Flag, while also not stepping into pissing people off.

 

[Topher]

To be fair Japan has always been suspicious of foreigners, that's why it's such a monoculture. That is largely because the yanks nuked them though... twice.

Japan has a history of being isolationists long before WW2.

 

[Spacefish]

i will now prove that i won this argument using your own words.
" I personally believe the riots were in no small part due to black populations in Europe that consume more American media..."

These are your perosnal beliefs and do not reflect real life socio-political movements across the world which have a real basis in cultural, social, and political issues.

"This shitty game is merely a trigger for surfacing much larger, older resentments. The Japanese are pissed because thomas lockley insinuated in his book that the Japanese were slave owners, this is a fabrication"

" You're ignoring my point that American history and American sin is being transplanted into countries where it does not belong "

" Japan never had black slaves because first of all there were barely any black people in the country and beyond that they were actually the victim of slavers"

" black slavery in japan was negligible to non existent"

All quotes from you that contradict each other, the idea of black slaves in japan is not "transplanting American sin into countries where it doesn't belong", it is merely a reference to a period of history.

"Race relations in America are almost irreparable because of a history that is then transplanted onto Europe where it doesnt belong, this leads to BLM riots is countries with barely any black people, unarmed police and no history of harsh racial policing. Mass Media consumption is the number 1 cause of this"

A false statement that you cannot and have not backed up with any factual evidence whatsoever. Which leads to my point of your extreme fantasies that western media can cause riots in places where no real cultural, political, or social conflicts exist.

Please re-read both of our posts and go learn a thing or two. Im not sure where you get your information from but it has certainly contorted YOUR world view.

look, I'm done with this argument since you dont actually have a core point you're just being increasingly pedantic. others can read through this exchange and decide who has the most coherent worldview.

George Floyd protests: The statues being defaced

As statues are toppled and defaced, a light is being shone on countries' colonial history.

www.bbc.co.uk

it is not merely personal opinion, there's is evidence that the BLM riots in Europe were motivated by resentment over slavery, triggered by American history while ignoring the fact that the British were the ones who abolished it. now again, the populations in Europe are not the decedents of slaves, they are economic migrants so their railing against slavery has nothing to do with their personal history and is an amorphous rage against global slavery, where do you think this rage comes from? couldn't be American media could it? Your attempt to deny this link is delusional. this amorphous rage is again a result of identities based on resentment which again, are dangerous.

again, a pedantic point whether you want to refer to it as an American sin or not is irrelevant, I do because the biggest locus of justified resentment over black slavery is located in America where they are the decedents of slaves, and from this locus it is expanding worldwide, pushed by idiots like thomas lockley and woke activists. You can rename it black slavery if you want to be pedantic, it doesnt change the substance of my argument.

I'm sorry but I have nothing to learn from you, you have provided nothing of note or substance, my world view was not made any more complex or functional because of this exchange, I am only more knowledgeable about your personal pedantry.

 

[Acidjuice]

look, I'm done with this argument since you dont actually have a core point you're just being increasingly pedantic. others can read through this exchange and decide who has the most coherent worldview.

George Floyd protests: The statues being defaced

As statues are toppled and defaced, a light is being shone on countries' colonial history.

www.bbc.co.uk

it is not merely personal opinion, there's is evidence that the BLM riots in Europe were motivated by resentment over slavery, triggered by American history while ignoring the fact that the British were the ones who abolished it. now again, the populations in Europe are not the decedents of slaves, they are economic migrants so their railing against slavery has nothing to do with their personal history and is an amorphous rage against global slavery, where do you think this rage comes from? couldn't be American media could it? Your attempt to deny this link is delusional. this amorphous rage is again a result of identities based on resentment which again, are dangerous.

again, a pedantic point whether you want to refer to it as an American sin or not is irrelevant, I do because the biggest locus of justified resentment over black slavery is located in America where they are the decedents of slaves, and from this locus it is expanding worldwide, pushed by idiots like thomas lockley and woke activists. You can rename it black slavery if you want to be pedantic, it doesnt change the substance of my argument.

I'm sorry but I have nothing to learn from you, you have provided nothing of note or substance, my world view was not made any more complex or functional because of this exchange, I am only more knowledgeable about your personal pedantry.

"now again, the populations in Europe are not the decedents of slaves, they are economic migrants"
False

How many Britons are descended from slave-owners?

About 3,000 British slave-owners received a total of £20m (£1.8bn in today's prices) in compensation when slavery was abolished in 1833, research suggests.

www.bbc.com

a quote to save you some reading;
"Prof Hall said: "Our overall finding is that British colonial slave-ownership was of far greater significance in Britain than has previously been recognised."

These points are not pedantic, they are factual and backed by plenty of readily available sources. you just refuse to both do any research aswell as conceed in areas you were incorrect.

no wonder you'd like to quit before you are further embarrassed.

 

[makaveli60]

You dont understand the situation at all. This has nothing to do with assassins creed itself, it is a symptom of a wider cultural issue. This shitty game is merely a trigger for surfacing much larger, older resentments. The Japanese are pissed because thomas lockley insinuated in his book that the Japanese were slave owners, this is a fabrication and it touches on the comfort women issue which is a giant political pitfall between Korea and Japan, whether you agree with the Japanese or not the rift between them and the Koreans is real because they believe it is historical revisionism and the Koreans do not. If you were to believe thomas lockleys bullshit then black people would then have reason to resent the Japanese as former slavers, this is not a video game issue it is history being re written to accommodate videogame bullshit. (the Wikipedia page is still a giant battleground in both japan and the west, both triggered by this game). Race relations in America are almost irreparable because of a history that is then transplanted onto Europe where it doesnt belong, this leads to BLM riots is countries with barely any black people, unarmed police and no history of harsh racial policing. Mass Media consumption is the number 1 cause of this (this includes videogames).

Black people who do not understand the deeper issue and merely interpret it as millions of racist Japanese and white people are going to live their lives with the assumption they are so hated people will seek to ban a game because they cant stand to look at them, it then becomes a hostile self fulfilling worldview. culture wars in the west are leading to a rise in far right parties across the globe, race relations have plummeted in the past 10 years (going from 72% of whites feeling good about them and 66% of black Americans in 2013 to 43% and 33% respectively), why?

If you want to stick your head in the ground and be myopic about this then nothing matters, sit back and let the destructive cultural forces mold you and everything around you. People in the first world are petty, if you make everything about race and you keep annoying them with grievance politics the problems that will hit you transcend media.

It’s insane that there are still people who don’t get what you wrote.

 

[Jack Videogames]

summary of the message:

"pls stop "

 

[Spacefish]

"now again, the populations in Europe are not the decedents of slaves, they are economic migrants"
False

How many Britons are descended from slave-owners?

About 3,000 British slave-owners received a total of £20m (£1.8bn in today's prices) in compensation when slavery was abolished in 1833, research suggests.

www.bbc.com

These points are not pedantic, they are factual and backed by plenty of readily available sources. you just refuse to both do any research aswell as conceed in areas you were incorrect.

no wonder you'd like to quit before you are further embarrassed.

c'mon man, stop with the dumb pedantry, you've completely lost the plot. slave ownership was abolished in 1807 long, long before mass immigration started in the UK. So again, the vast majority of the black population in Europe and especially the UK are from economic migrants. I'm not sure what a link about decedents of slave OWNERS has to do with this discussion either.

 

[Acidjuice]

c'mon man, stop with the dumb pedantry, you've completely lost the plot. slave ownership was abolished in 1807 long, long before mass immigration started in the UK. So again, the vast majority of the black population in Europe and especially the UK are from economic migrants. I'm not sure what a link about decedents of slave OWNERS has to do with this discussion either.

you keep using pedantry like some kind of shield. give me an example of me being pedantic. it's you trying to equate irrelevant ideas as a basis for your argument that led to this.

 

[Spacefish]

you keep using pedantry like some kind of shield. give me an example of me being pedantic. it's you trying to equate irrelevant ideas as a basis for your argument that led to this.

The ethnic makeup of the UK in 1951 was 99.9% white, prior to this it may as well have been 100% white. Slavery was abolished 100+ years prior. So, please tell me where all the slaves were? You're so obviously out of your depth here, I'm calling you pedantic because the points you are making are leading nowhere, you dont know what you are talking about and you are arguing for the sake of arguing since you dont want to look dumb.

 

[Acidjuice]

The ethnic makeup of the UK in 1951 was 99.9% white, prior to this it may as well have been 100% white. Slavery was abolished 100+ years prior. So, please tell me where all the slaves were? You're so obviously out of your depth here, I'm calling you pedantic because the points you are making are leading nowhere, you dont know what you are talking about and you are arguing for the sake of arguing since you dont want to look dumb.

i outlined each point i made and how it refuted each point that you made in my post where i quote you directly. the article i linked which i even bothered to tl;dr for you further refuted your point that the riots in the UK were due to consumption of American media. you just keep hiding behind the word pedantry to avoid admiting you were wrong. a point i also made in the post where i quote you.

 

[Spacefish]

i outlined each point i made and how it refuted each point that you made in my post where i quote you directly. the article i linked which i even bothered to tl;dr for you further refuted your point that the riots in the UK were due to consumption of American media. you just keep hiding behind the word pedantry to avoid admiting you were wrong. a point i also made in the post where i quote you.

c'mon, tell me were the slaves were

Demographics of the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

you told me I was wrong when I said the black population in the UK are the decedents of economic migrants not slaves. You're dodging again. they didn't teleport in 150 years after slavery was abolished.

 

[Tams]

Considering how movies from the Western world so rarely have male Asian leads in big movies really explains the deep-rooted racist attitudes that fuel people's hate towards the idea of a Japanese man as the main character in this game.

It's strange how there's such a widespread intense hate towards East Asian males in the Western world and it deserves its own discussion. It's good that this debate is lifting up the problems of anti-Asian racism.

Is it racism, is it just the Western world (still) being overwhelming white (because that's where white humans are from)?

I don't expect many non-Japanese leads in Japanese media, nor non-French leads in French media.

 

[Acidjuice]

c'mon, tell me were the slaves were

Demographics of the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

you told me I was wrong when I said the black population in the UK are the decedents of economic migrants not slaves. You're dodging again. they didn't teleport in 150 years after slavery was abolished.

brother your exact fucking quote was (which i already quoted);

"now again, the populations in Europe are not the decedents of slaves, they are economic migrants"

which is untrue.

but here is a source that cites the conditions of slaves and migrants of slave countries in britan specifically.

The British Empire's Role In The Slave Trade: A Painful Legacy | HistoryExtra

Teni Gogo reveals why the British empire’s role in transporting millions of African people overseas not only changed what it meant to be ‘black’, but also ‘British’

www.historyextra.com

"For centuries, the British empire was one of the major European powers leading the largest forced migration of any people group in history: the transatlantic slave trade. Among the most immediate consequences was, of course, the African diaspora that spread across both the Americas and Europe, and, in the aftermath of slavery’s eventual abolition, the empire’s colonisation of whole sections of Africa. Until the 1940s, migration from Britain’s Caribbean and African colonies would be slow but steady, before rising sharply in the years immediately after World War II."

Transatlantic slave trade | History & Facts

Transatlantic slave trade, part of the global slave trade that took 10–12 million enslaved Africans to the Americas from the 16th to the 19th century. In the ‘triangular trade,’ arms and textiles went from Europe to Africa, enslaved people from Africa to the Americas, and sugar and coffee from...

www.britannica.com

"By the 1480s Portuguese ships were already transporting Africans for use as enslaved labourers on the sugar plantations in the Cape Verde and Madeira islands in the eastern Atlantic. Spanish conquistadors took enslaved Africans to the Caribbean after 1502, but Portuguese merchants continued to dominate the transatlantic slave trade for another century and a half, operating from their bases in the Congo-Angola area along the west coast of Africa. The Dutch became the foremost traders of enslaved people during parts of the 1600s, and in the following century English and French merchants controlled about half of the transatlantic slave trade,"

 

[Spacefish]

brother your exact fucking quote was (which i already quoted);

"now again, the populations in Europe are not the decedents of slaves, they are economic migrants"

which is untrue.

but here is a source that cites the conditions of slaves and migrants of slave countries in britan specifically.

The British Empire's Role In The Slave Trade: A Painful Legacy | HistoryExtra

Teni Gogo reveals why the British empire’s role in transporting millions of African people overseas not only changed what it meant to be ‘black’, but also ‘British’

www.historyextra.com

"For centuries, the British empire was one of the major European powers leading the largest forced migration of any people group in history: the transatlantic slave trade. Among the most immediate consequences was, of course, the African diaspora that spread across both the Americas and Europe, and, in the aftermath of slavery’s eventual abolition, the empire’s colonisation of whole sections of Africa. Until the 1940s, migration from Britain’s Caribbean and African colonies would be slow but steady, before rising sharply in the years immediately after World War II."

Transatlantic slave trade | History & Facts

Transatlantic slave trade, part of the global slave trade that took 10–12 million enslaved Africans to the Americas from the 16th to the 19th century. In the ‘triangular trade,’ arms and textiles went from Europe to Africa, enslaved people from Africa to the Americas, and sugar and coffee from...

www.britannica.com

"By the 1480s Portuguese ships were already transporting Africans for use as enslaved labourers on the sugar plantations in the Cape Verde and Madeira islands in the eastern Atlantic. Spanish conquistadors took enslaved Africans to the Caribbean after 1502, but Portuguese merchants continued to dominate the transatlantic slave trade for another century and a half, operating from their bases in the Congo-Angola area along the west coast of Africa. The Dutch became the foremost traders of enslaved people during parts of the 1600s, and in the following century English and French merchants controlled about half of the transatlantic slave trade,"

it is true, it is so self evidently true I dont know why you are continuing to argue this point. The slave trade among European countries remained an external phenomena, only the US imported them in massive numbers. you cant tell me the slaves teleported into the uk 150 years after slavery was abolished.

 

[Acidjuice]

it is true, it is so self evidently true I dont know why you are continuing to argue this point. The slave trade among European countries remained an external phenomena, only the US imported them in massive numbers. you cant tell me the slaves teleported into the uk 150 years after slavery was abolished.

if literally quoting britannica isnt enough for you than i dont know what is. i truly hope you one day decide to educate yourself.

 

[Spacefish]

if literally quoting britannica isnt enough for you than i dont know what is. i truly hope you one day decide to educate yourself.

why are you so dumb, its making me crazy. your links are about the transatlantic slave trade, they aren't about the non existent slave population within the UK. you have to stop, you're lowering my IQ.

lol, also britannica hahahaha.

Yasuke | African Samurai, History, Oda Nobunaga, & Japan

Yasuke was a valet and bodyguard of the Jesuit missionary Alessandro Valignano who rose to become a member of the inner circle of Japan’s first “great unifier,” the warlord Oda Nobunaga. Yasuke is commonly held by Japanese historians to be the first recorded ‘samurai’ of foreign birth, although...

www.britannica.com

check the author. We finally come full circle, thank you for proving my point and providing the perfect place to end this retarded discussion, fuck historical revisionism and thomas lockley. have a nice life.

 

[Acidjuice]

why are you so dumb, its making me crazy. your links are about the transatlantic slave trade, they aren't about the non existent slave population within the UK. you have to stop, you're lowering my IQ.

lol, also britannica hahahaha.

Yasuke | African Samurai, History, Oda Nobunaga, & Japan

Yasuke was a valet and bodyguard of the Jesuit missionary Alessandro Valignano who rose to become a member of the inner circle of Japan’s first “great unifier,” the warlord Oda Nobunaga. Yasuke is commonly held by Japanese historians to be the first recorded ‘samurai’ of foreign birth, although...

www.britannica.com

check the author. We finally come full circle, thank you for proving my point and providing the perfect place to end this retarded discussion, have a nice life.

Motherfucker the passage i quoted talks about the number of slaves transported to SPAIN and FRANCE which if you didnt know, are placves in EUROPE.
you are actually brain damaged to not understand how that relates to exactly what were talking about

and who gives a fuck about thomas lockley, he didnt write the fucking article i quoted.

 

[Trilobit]

Is it racism, is it just the Western world (still) being overwhelming white (because that's where white humans are from)?

I don't expect many non-Japanese leads in Japanese media, nor non-French leads in French media.

I've seen far more black and hispanic lead actors in for example Hollywood than I've seen East Asian ones.

 

[balls of snow]

Man I want to see Ghost 2 where you play exclusively a girl. Make her a girlboss too. Or a Mary Sue. With a big chin. Fuck it, do it Sony.

 

[Hypnotoad]

Acidjuice, please just stop. The black population of Europe is not descendent of some imaginary slave-caste. The vast majority (>99%) entered Europe after the second world, with it accelerating in the 21st century. In fact, even in the 1980s a black person was a rare sight in your average-sized Western European city, with some exceptions (UK, France).

 

[Topher]

Considering how movies from the Western world so rarely have male Asian leads in big movies really explains the deep-rooted racist attitudes that fuel people's hate towards the idea of a Japanese man as the main character in this game.

I don't think I've seen anyone express "hate towards the idea of Japanese man as the main character in this game". That side of the argument has been in defense of the character of Yasuke. Not the same thing.

 

[Negotiator101]

Tbf, they've also posted the same message in Japanese.

That's ok then, so even more people can read that drivel.

 

[PeteBull]

For all the ppl who dont understand why its super racists to put black guy in japanese AC as samurai protagonist, lets do lil analogy here, lets take this trailer of marvels Luke Cage:

Its supposedly all fictional since its marvel superhero story, but its set in harlem, so predonominaly black neighbourhood, now imagine Luke Cage is not ur black bro build like a mountain but they decided he is white, or asian(and yup, not 6'5 but say 5'8 japanese looking scrawny/normal guy instead)- wouldnt black ppl and overall every1 be pretty pissed? i know i would be, and im white af eastern european here.

Bonus bit- when that white or asian Luke Cage guy fights we dont get hip hop/rnb/rap music but some country songs, its all fictional so it makes it allright, no?

 

[kyussman]

Putting a black guy in the lead role of a Japanese Samurai game is pure woke ideology and deserves to be mocked as the bullshit it is.Anyone making excuses for it must have been living under a rock for the last few years,it's all just part of the same insane woke playbook that says trans women ARE women.It's all bullshit peddled by people who have lost their minds and critical thinking skills to a cult.