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The Double-Slit Experiment and the Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
A lot of people have been exposed to Young's famous Double Slit Experiment, which introduces students to the wave/particle duality of light. But this experiment takes us fully into the strange realm of quantum mechanics, too.

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I've included a sequence of videos below that gradually increase in mindfuckery, but should be fun for curious gaffers. Apologies for any errors in my summaries and explanations.

In the experiment, a photon or electron is shot toward two slits and there is a sheet on the other end that reacts to where it ends up. An interference pattern occurs when an initial wave sent to the two slits splits into two waves and these waves collide with each other on the other side, per the figure above. We can tell when something is behaving as a wave if it produces that interference pattern on the sheet at the other end. If it's behaving as a particle, the interference pattern won't form and we'll just see two lines on the sheet.

The Double Slit experiment works for some atoms as well (a little differently). Shoot a stream of atoms at the two slits, and they'll behave like waves, forming an interference pattern where they end up on the other side. Drop the frequency down to one atom at a time and you'll detect one atom at a time on the other end, behaving like a particle, but eventually, by continuing to shoot one atom at a time toward the two slits, a wave-like interference pattern will form on the other side, even though each atom is not being split between the two slits and multiple atoms are not interacting with each other en route.

Well, let's try observing which slit each atom passes through to get more information. When you do measure which slit each atom passes through via a detector, the interference pattern on the far end disappears, instead showing a straightforward two-slit pattern with the atoms returning to behaving like particles, or bullets passing through two holes in a steel plate. Watch the first video for a clearer picture:



The second video gets more into the quantum mechanics involved in our attempts to explain what is going on in the double-slit experiment. We could think of the trajectory from the starting point to the endpoint as a superposition of all the possible outcomes, a probability wave function moving through both slits that collapses into a particle when directly measured/observed.



The third video, on the Quantum Eraser, is where it gets really mental. Physicists devised a method to split a photon into two identical half-energy photons after passing through the two slits, sending one of the photons in the new pair to the interference screen as before, but the other photon to a detector that tells us which of the two slits the pre-split photon passed through, as a method of indirect observation of the first photon.

Even though they're separate photons at that point and we're not observing the one sent to the interference screen -- observing it changes its behavior from a wave to a particle -- if we observe the OTHER photon in the pair, the interference pattern produced by the photon sent to the screen disappears as if we observed it and not its buddy, an example of quantum entanglement between the photons.



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But there's more: the experiment was designed so that the observation of the second photon from the pair is farther away than the distance between the first photon traverses to the screen, and therefore takes place AFTER the first photon has ALREADY HIT the interference screen. If the first photon or its entangled buddy aren't observed en route, it should behave as a wave and produce an interference pattern on the screen. Yet the observation of the second photon that tells us which of the two slits it passed through takes place after the first photon has already hit the screen...and that observation reverts the first photon's outcome to particle behavior (ignoring causality, since it has already hit the screen...) and prevents the interference pattern from forming.

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Not done yet. Now for the Quantum Eraser, where the experiment above is done, but some of the second split-photons don't go to the A/B slit detector, and instead continue along and pass through a beam splitter in such a way where we can no longer know which of the two slits the photon originally passed through when it's measured by another set of detectors (i.e. the information about which slit it traversed is destroyed, called the which-path information). And in that case, the interference pattern from the first photon re-appears.

And, let's not forget that the first photon had already reached its destination when these various events with the second photon transpire, so this is changing the past.











Thoughts? :lollipop_hushed:
 
S

Shodan09

Unconfirmed Member
I'm not clever enough to understand any of it fully but it is pretty crazy
 

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
This shit is way outa my brains paygrade, hell my mind fucking explodes trying to wrap itself around Quantum Entanglement where you can have an entangled particle at opposite ends of the universe but when you observe the one on earth the other one at furthest edges of the observable universe fucking knows right away.. HOW!??!?
 

QSD

Member
EviLore EviLore do you have a background in physics? Hats off if you don't! I really don't have much to add to this discussion since I do not have a talent/intuition for 'regular' physics and I certainly don't understand quantum physics.

A channel that might interest you is the Theories of Everything channel by Curt Jaimungal. : Channel
There's a couple of academics he's interviewed like Bernardo Kastrup and Donald Hoffman who make substantiated claims that the basic property of the universe is consciousness, not matter. Perhaps that approach could shed some new light on the mysteries of quantum physics. He recently also hosted a 2 part conversation between Kastrup and John Vervaeke which was especially interesting (though only tangentially related to physics). There's plenty of hard core physics on the channel too btw.
 

cormack12

Gold Member
Thoughts? :lollipop_hushed:

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I think after watching that, I have an 'entangled pair' as well. First guy was on point, kept me interested. Other guy kind of bored me and lost me. Looks like he bored himself too.

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Pretty wild though. It's like damn, you peeped at me, now I gotta behave and obey the laws of physics.
 
The experiment is wild enough to make people consider consciousness being encoded into the fabric of reality itself. Ironically, we basically don't know shit about consciousness, so it seems like an almost unsolvable mystery.
 

MastaKiiLA

Member
I watch a lot of PBS Space Time videos, so I'll have to rewatch these. The first one I've never seen, so I'll try watching them in the order posted. I usually zone out on the quantum stuff, because it's not really practical for anything I do, but now you've piqued my curiosity.
 
This shit is way outa my brains paygrade, hell my mind fucking explodes trying to wrap itself around Quantum Entanglement where you can have an entangled particle at opposite ends of the universe but when you observe the one on earth the other one at furthest edges of the observable universe fucking knows right away.. HOW!??!?
If this is true FTL communication must be possible?
 

Lady Bird

Matsuno's Goebbels
Time altering particles may be one possible explanation, but not the only one.

It's also possible that our universe is some sort of code/machine that parses and interprets information before projecting/shaping it into "reality". In other words, this universe-machine would know beforehand how particles are shot and where they would end, perhaps by doing some sort of simulation, while we only get to see the end results of said simulation. So it's not so much that one event changes the past, as it is that the "past event" is shaped by a "future event" that has been already calculated in advance, before both were yet shown in our reality.

That's just another theory. Who knows!
 
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cormack12

Gold Member
It’s not the physical act of measurement that seems to make the difference, but the “act of noticing”, as physicist Carl von Weizsäcker (who worked closely with quantum pioneer Werner Heisenberg) put it in 1941. Ananthaswamy explains that this is what is so strange about quantum mechanics: it can seem impossible to eliminate a decisive role for our conscious intervention in the outcome of experiments. That fact drove physicist Eugene Wigner to suppose at one point that the mind itself causes the ‘collapse’ that turns a wave into a particle.

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Ailynn

Faith - Hope - Love
This is certainly fascinating! I was unsure, though- Is this just theory, or has it actually been observed?

Whichever is the case, I love hearing things like this. :)


Still, for the most part...it just makes me and my poor brain feel oh so special.

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poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
It is indeed fascinating, the quantum world is this completely separate world with its own rules but at the same time it underpins the basic building blocks of the classical world. Then you get relativistic effects on top of that. Its a shame that the counter intuitive nature of the quantum world enables so much woo-woo crap as it corrupts the mathematical elegance of it all.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member

Ailynn

Faith - Hope - Love
It's mind blowing.

You what really makes my brain explode? The randomness of quantum mechanics. It's all probability until you make an actual observation. Then it all falls apart. It can't be measured.

Yeah I can't recall if it was a LHC experiment, but I believe they took a quark (or similarly small unit of light/energy) and were able to show that it altered its form when being observed. Something along those lines.
 
...so this is changing the past.











Thoughts? :lollipop_hushed:
I'm not going to go into details, but I'm personally aware of this possibility.

Life can be very...interesting, to say the least. (Some substances/practices have the potential to twist and contort everything, making the "impossible" possible - things changing deeply on the "internal" only to be reflected/mirrored in the "external". It's almost like all is within...)
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Don't feel bad about it twisting your melon. It messed up Einstein too!

He refused to accept "spooky motion" and Bohr "won" in the end!

Einstein vs Bohr is a great story, well worth looking into to see an epic clash of legendary physicists who found themselves fundamentally at odds over quantum phenomena.
 
Meme version for us filthy casuals.

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Isn't this the quantum mechanics version of (don't have a better analogy) Schrodinger's Cat?

Essentially that by viewing something that is in flux/not yet determined, you (or the universe, or physics, or whatever) cut it down into 1 probability as opposed to an infinite number?
 
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McCheese

Member
Fun videos, my knee-jerk response, with my logical programmer brain on, is that there are maybe two explanations.

So when we are not observing, when we are not interfering - it works consistently. So the universe isn't buggy, the universe knows what it's doing.

but when we put these sensors on and observe, it changes the behavior of the particles, and the videos seem to think the particles are being sneaky fuckers and aware they are being observed. But my first logical guess would be that it is the sensors themselves that are the cause, that the sensors themselves do have a tangible impact on the particles. None of the videos go into how the sensors actually work on a physical level, but let's say a sensor which detects radiation, maybe the same way a sniffing nose absorbs particles, maybe the radiation sensor is absorbing or reacts with the particles in a way we don't understand yet, which is causing the particles behave differently when observed or not observed, maybe there is a flaw in our presumption that we are just observing and not interfering.

If I were Einstein I'd probably explain it by saying, why do women react one way when I stare at them, and another way when an attractive guy does it.

The second is we're in a simulation of some sort, and this is a performance optimisation - don't bother simulating stuff in high-fidelity if there isn't anything that can observe it, drop it to a lower setting as over a large enough space the results will average out the same anyway, maybe every atom has an 'isObserved' boolean and goes through a different switch statement whenever the universe ticks.

The time stuff isn't that interesting, time is literally just another dimension, so the fact stuff can happen in a difference sequence is of no real greater importance than the fact it can also move left, right up or down when we interfere with it; it just seems more weird to us as our brains are not wired to see time that way.

Edit:

Third bonus wild-card theory - what if "movement" doesn't exist, particles don't move between two points in space but rather just teleport the minimum possible distance allowed by this reality. What if when something moves it's a two step process, the first tick it turns from a particle to a wave spanning all possible destinations, then in the next tick it just takes one random possibility and picks it, it's the programming equivalent of brute-forcing physics/collision detection without having to do any complex math. Maybe the universe is just super fucking dumb but also super fucking fast, and the faster the object is moving, it's actually just having more "ticks" applied to it per second/minute/hour/whatever so it's moving further.
 
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Termite

Member
Outer Wilds took on these issues about as well as a video game could have and led me down this rabbit-hole a year ago. It's just mind-blowing stuff.

For me, I simply can't accept the idea that conscious observation can affect the laws of physics. It's just too much for me. It would appear to mean that consciousness, which only developed in the universe "recently", is superior to the laws of physics themselves. That physics is subordinate to consciousness, when by all intuitive understanding consciousness is an incredible illusion or side-effect of the chemical processes involved in the biology of advanced organic machines (animals!).

So I will always believe that we're missing something, some integral force, some effect our method of observation has on the system. The other option is that we truly are in a simulation that can self-correct back through time.

Or, as Outer Wilds ended up suggesting (I think), that the universe itself must be observed to exist, to even begin.

Fuck me.

Fun videos, my knee-jerk response, with my logical programmer brain on, is that there are maybe two explanations.

So when we are not observing, when we are not interfering - it works consistently. So the universe isn't buggy, the universe knows what it's doing.

but when we put these sensors on and observe, it changes the behavior of the particles, and the videos seem to think the particles are being sneaky fuckers and aware they are being observed. But my first logical guess would be that it is the sensors themselves that are the cause, that the sensors themselves do have a tangible impact on the particles in some way we don't understand yet. None of the videos go into how the sensors actually work on a physical level, but let's say a sensor which detects radiation, maybe the same way a sniffing nose absorbs particles, maybe the radiation sensor is absorbing or reacts with the particles in a way we don't understand yet, which is causing the particles behave differently when observed or not observed, maybe there is a flaw in our presumption that we are just observing and not interfering.

If I were Einstein I'd probably explain it by saying, why do women react one way when I stare at them, and another way when an attractive guy does it.

The second is we're in a simulation of some sort, and this is a performance optimisation - don't bother simulating stuff in high-fidelity if there isn't anything that can observe it, drop it to a lower setting as over a large enough space the results will average out the same anyway, maybe every atom has an 'isObserved' boolean and goes through a different switch statement whenever the universe ticks.

The time stuff isn't that interesting, time is literally just another dimension, so the fact stuff can happen in a difference sequence is of no real greater importance than the fact it can also move left, right up or down when we interfere with it; it just seems more weird to us as our brains are not wired to see time that way.
You said exactly what I wanted to better than I could have.
 
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nkarafo

Member
Isn't this the quantum mechanics version of (don't have a better analogy) Schrodinger's Cat?

Essentially that by viewing something that is in flux/not yet determined, you (or the universe, or physics, or whatever) cut it down into 1 probability as opposed to an infinite number?
Um... i know some of these words.

Could you convert the question into a meme format please? :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 

T8SC

Member
It's too late in the evening to get into Quantum Superposition etc but physics is always fascinating, especially things like gravitational lensing & entropy.
 
Um... i know some of these words.

Could you convert the question into a meme format please? :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Honestly as some folks here have opined as well... even when you think you understand quantum mechanics.... you also kind of don't.

The best way I can break down my interpretation of that meme/Schrodinger's Cat is: if you take something that has more than one state (ie dead or alive), that object is neither until you view it, thus making it dead or alive in reality.

Sorry if I butchered that.
 

nkarafo

Member
if you take something that has more than one state (ie dead or alive), that object is neither until you view it, thus making it dead or alive in reality.
Hmm, i don't know. I feel like this is more of a thought/philosophical experiment and hypotheticals. I never really took it seriously.

The double slit experiment is an actual experiment with the same, consistent result.
 
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Pagusas

Elden Member
I wonder if one day the mathematical equation of life and the universe will be solved and it’ll end up being something so fricken obvious or simple that we all feel like complete idiots.
 
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McCheese

Member
I wonder if one day the mathematical equation of life and the universe will be solved and it’ll end up being something so fricken obvious or simple that we all feel like complete idiots.

Quite possibly, makes me think of those complex never-ending fractal animations which are deceptively based on some dead simple math, but trying to figure out the math from the fractal itself is incredibly hard.
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
Quite possibly, makes me think of those complex never-ending fractal animations which are deceptively based on some dead simple math, but trying to figure out the math from the fractal itself is incredibly hard.

like the game of life thing?

C6HkzTZOrAtlLPkY6tHcUQMX1BoahTG_Gt4ueO_G0dV-J6dqSbT7ElD6Ddg_vg2cNI1D9cIBQMUNaPWIkPrqGVpbE9RY_9Q3Fn0k
 
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jimmyd

Member
Fun videos, my knee-jerk response, with my logical programmer brain on, is that there are maybe two explanations.

So when we are not observing, when we are not interfering - it works consistently. So the universe isn't buggy, the universe knows what it's doing.

but when we put these sensors on and observe, it changes the behavior of the particles, and the videos seem to think the particles are being sneaky fuckers and aware they are being observed. But my first logical guess would be that it is the sensors themselves that are the cause, that the sensors themselves do have a tangible impact on the particles. None of the videos go into how the sensors actually work on a physical level, but let's say a sensor which detects radiation, maybe the same way a sniffing nose absorbs particles, maybe the radiation sensor is absorbing or reacts with the particles in a way we don't understand yet, which is causing the particles behave differently when observed or not observed, maybe there is a flaw in our presumption that we are just observing and not interfering.

If I were Einstein I'd probably explain it by saying, why do women react one way when I stare at them, and another way when an attractive guy does it.
This seems plausible in that the act of observing or using sensors somehow interferes, like even the presence of light is enough to change particle behaviour. I've thought long on this experiment and only this makes sense.
 

TTOOLL

Member
This kind of thing just makes me feel like we know shit about everything around us and that there must be something else behind it all. We’ve just scratched the surface.
 
Hmm, i don't know. I feel like this is more of a thought/philosophical experiment and hypotheticals. I never really took it seriously.

The double slit experiment is an actual experiment with the same, consistent result.
It is definitely a thought/philosophical experiment, but it does have quantum applications.

We've proven that particles act differently when being observed (now the how/why of that is beyond me, I need to read more into it)... and the meme with the multiple slits, then when viewed only showing 2, seems to line up with that thought experiment.

Again this is all big brain stuff and I'm just an ape.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
This kind of thing just makes me feel like we know shit about everything around us and that there must be something else behind it all. We’ve just scratched the surface.
A surface isn't even a surface as we understand it in the quantum realm, particles which don't have enough energy to pass a potential barrier can just kind of teleport to the other side based on probability.
 

Moomalade74

Banned
I've always loved this experiment and the potential implications of it's various outcomes. It's almost like a bug in the matrix revealed. A clue into the landscape of understanding reality beyond our current comprehension.
To me my intuition tells me our concousness is somehow part of the equation of reality, that we are an essential component in the manifestation of what we experience around us, that there is not the separation between us, and the outside, it is causally intertwined.
 
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