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[Soodanim]

Dungeons confirmed? Some of us didn't know that for sure until we read the thread title.

I see. There was always going to be something along those lines, and most referred to the Divine Beasts in BOTW as dungeons (even if in quotation marks because they were poor replacements). But I get the motivation to know nothing at all. That said, I don't blame OP for Nintendo deeming it okay to talk about.

 

[Neff]

I'm excited.

 

[Walter Matthau]

Agreed ..it's inconsiderate bs by the Op.

Feels like the people intent on taking the game down a peg or two are revving up their engines and ready to pounce tomorrow.

Truth is universal acclaim doesn't exist anymore. That tag alone will bring out the contrarians intent on dismantling and destroying.

This is the modern world.

I don't want to derail this thread, but I've had the same observation. There's always been a certain amount of attention seeking negativity on forums and social media, but these days the norm is to try and ruin other's enjoyment of any popular or potentially popular game, movie, product, etc. Unfortunately, we've been conditioned to be this way because "This game is awesome!" doesn't generate nearly as big of a response as a controversial opinion would.

 

[-Zelda-]

They said that creating dungeons was a real challenge. Why? Was it any more or less of a challenge when you did it in every other Zelda game successfully before BoTW? I don't understand what would make it so difficult now.

 

[MagiusNecros]

They said that creating dungeons was a real challenge. Why? Was it any more or less of a challenge when you did it in every other Zelda game successfully before BoTW? I don't understand what would make it so difficult now.

Everything in the game world is connected except shrines and isn't just a set of rooms in a instanced location. Also I think given BotW and TotK are basically LoZ: Fallout edition the usual dungeon design of obtain item in dungeon to progress is hard to work around with the tools you already have at your disposal.

 

[GigaBowser]

When I first started playing I was like waaaiiiit is this the best games ever?

Then I kept playing and was like yep this is the best games ever

 

[Soodanim]

I don't want to derail this thread, but I've had the same observation. There's always been a certain amount of attention seeking negativity on forums and social media, but these days the norm is to try and ruin other's enjoyment of any popular or potentially popular game, movie, product, etc. Unfortunately, we've been conditioned to be this way because "This game is awesome!" doesn't generate nearly as big of a response as a controversial opinion would.

I think the attention seeking works both ways. More people giving more genuine negative opinions, more attention seeking inflammatory negativity and more trolling is met with more people wanting to be right and jumping on negativity because people aren't always content to let others have an opinion.

 

[DavidGzz]

I ended up finally purchasing a Switch so that my daughter could play this, do weapons still break super quick?

 

[-Zelda-]

I ended up finally purchasing a Switch so that my daughter could play this, do weapons still break super quick?

Yes.

 

[DenchDeckard]

They said that creating dungeons was a real challenge. Why? Was it any more or less of a challenge when you did it in every other Zelda game successfully before BoTW? I don't understand what would make it so difficult now.

Because its a completely open world, with a more advanced weather and physics engine than even the most demanding games on current gen...couple that with nearly all the abilities being unlocked and it not being a linear dungeon like previous games...

Pretty simple when you think about it.

 

[Lasha]

Even 95%, i can't fathom people calling the exploration (or any activity really) in that game rewarding.

I can't fathom many things that people said about that game but here we are.

This one seems slightly better from what i could read in the leaks, at least when it comes to main dungeons rewards.

I found the entire experience to be rewarding. Exploring the world was fun. I enjoyed solving puzzles in the shrines and beats. I enjoyed beating the game the first time without knowing that the divine beasts make the boss much easier. I enjoyed playing around with the physics and doing silly stuff. I actually can't fathom the idea that loot or arbitrary rewards is the only thing making the game less rewarding.

 

[Otre]

what dungeons?

 

[GigaBowser]

I'll posted my review:

Graphics are better than BOTW

Dungeons are WAY better than BOTW

Enemies and combats are WAY WAY better than BOTW

World and sandbox is WAY WAY WAY better than BOTW


WAY WAY WAY better than BOTW/10

 

[GigaBowser]

World is much more popularated with things to do

 

[brownfedora]

I did one dungeon so far (the sky one) and it was shorter, easier and worst than any divine beast in Botw lol

I love the game, think it's better than BOTW, deserves very high review scores, and also completely agree with this assessment of this particular dungeon in the sky. It is not huge and pretty easy. I've only done the one dungeon so far but I am not holding out hopes for an Ocarina Forest Temple style dungeon.

 

[GigaBowser]

I love the game, think it's better than BOTW, deserves very high review scores, and also completely agree with this assessment of this particular dungeon in the sky. It is not huge and pretty easy. I've only done the one dungeon so far but I am not holding out hopes for an Ocarina Forest Temple style dungeon.

They gets way better. It's not the bestest dungeons in the series ever but in some ways they are hahahaha you'll see

 

[GymWolf]

I found the entire experience to be rewarding. Exploring the world was fun. I enjoyed solving puzzles in the shrines and beats. I enjoyed beating the game the first time without knowing that the divine beasts make the boss much easier. I enjoyed playing around with the physics and doing silly stuff. I actually can't fathom the idea that loot or arbitrary rewards is the only thing making the game less rewarding.

Good for you, me and some other people were bored of having zero interesting loot whatsoever and majority of puzzles tuned for 5 years old childs.

I'll posted my review:

Graphics are better than BOTW

Dungeons are WAY better than BOTW

Enemies and combats are WAY WAY better than BOTW

World and sandbox is WAY WAY WAY better than BOTW


WAY WAY WAY better than BOTW/10

The core combat looks exactly the same, same short combo for every weapon, backflip and counter rush, how is the combat WAY WAY better than botw?
Are the enemies less retarded and harder to deal with? Because let's be honest the only non-shitty enemy in botw were the lineels.

Is it because now you can fuse stuff on weapons?

 

[Fools idol]

I remain with the opinion that this is a DLC for the first game. lol

 

[Lasha]

Good for you, me and some other people were bored of having zero interesting loot whatsoever and majority of puzzles tuned for 5 years old childs.

That quip at the end is ironic given that you can't fathom how somebody could find BotW rewarding. Lack of empathy being most common among children and all. The water temple in OOT is highlighted by Zelda fans as a crucible. I beat it without thinking as a ten year old when the game came out. I'm an adult. No amount of loot would make me like a game whose mechanics I don't enjoy. Loot becomes useless as soon as the credits roll.

I wish somebody else would copy Nintendo and make a mature game with a world like BotW but the mainstream focus on graphics really limits the interactivity in modern open world games.

 

[GymWolf]

That quip at the end is ironic given that you can't fathom how somebody could find BotW rewarding. Lack of empathy being most common among children and all. The water temple in OOT is highlighted by Zelda fans as a crucible. I beat it without thinking as a ten year old when the game came out. I'm an adult. No amount of loot would make me like a game whose mechanics I don't enjoy. Loot becomes useless as soon as the credits roll.

I wish somebody else would copy Nintendo and make a mature game with a world like BotW but the mainstream focus on graphics really limits the interactivity in modern open world games.

Don't put words in my mouth, i said that me and some other people didn't finded botw rewarding, no need to call me a baby because i have a different opinion, not really an adult move if you ask me.

I hate puzzles, i'm shit at it, and majority of zelda puzzles were super easy with some clever exceptions here and there, this is what i meant with tuned for 5 years old childs, maybe i wasn't clear, sorry.

You told me why you were engaged, i explained to you why i wasn't.

You name the dungeons in oot but the divine beasts were pretty shitty dungeons if you ask me compared to the old ones.

 

[Portugeezer]

Games gonna score mostly 10s everywhere. Not saying it deserves it, but it has the Zelda name.

Also not hating on the game. I really want to play it, but I'd be in denial if I couldn't admit many Nintendo games get special treatment at times.

Every time Nintendo releases a game people say this.

Thanks for the reminder. You can sleep at ease now.

 

[brownfedora]

I remain with the opinion that this is a DLC for the first game. lol

Nah, it's really not. Terrific game in its own right.

 

[Danjin44]

Don't put words in my mouth, i said that me and some other people didn't finded botw rewarding, no need to call me a baby because i have a different opinion, not really an adult move if you ask me.

I hate puzzles, i'm shit at it, and majority of zelda puzzles were super easy with some clever exceptions here and there, this is what i meant with tuned for 5 years old childs, maybe i wasn't clear, sorry.

You told me why you were engaged, i explained to you why i wasn't.

You name the dungeons in oot but the divine beasts were pretty shitty dungeons if you ask me compared to the old ones.

I don’t know why you even care for this game, you CLEARLY didn’t liked BotW and pretty sure you won’t ToTK either.

I fucking HATED original Horizon and completely skipped its DLC and sequel, maybe you should do the same.

 

[Lasha]

Don't put words in my mouth, i said that me and some other people didn't finded botw rewarding, no need to call me a baby because i have a different opinion, not really an adult move if you ask me.

I hate puzzles, i'm shit at it, and majority of zelda puzzles were super easy with some clever exceptions here and there, this is what i meant with tuned for 5 years old childs, maybe i wasn't clear, sorry.

You told me why you were engaged, i explained to you why i wasn't.

You name the dungeons in oot but the divine beasts were pretty shitty dungeons if you ask me compared to the old ones.

I used your exact words.

Even 95%, i can't fathom people calling the exploration (or any activity really) in that game rewarding.

I can't fathom many things that people said about that game but here we are.

This one seems slightly better from what i could read in the leaks, at least when it comes to main dungeons rewards.

I agree that the game was pretty easy once I beat it with more than 5 hearts. Thats kind of the beauty though. All of it is optional. I think you can just rush ganon once you're off the plateau if you're good enough. Did you also dislike Shadow of the Colossus?

 

[GymWolf]

I don’t know why you even care for this game, you CLEARLY didn’t liked BotW and pretty sure you won’t ToTK either.

I fucking HATED original Horizon and completely skipped its DLC and sequel, maybe you should do the same.

I like some aspects of it well enough to give it a try, like the new skills looks pretty cool, i heard about the world being more lively and the game being way harder so i want to give it a shot.

Even if i get 20+ hours of good fun from the game, i'm ok with it.

Also may is a bit of a dead months games wise if i remember well.

 

[GymWolf]

I used your exact words.



I agree that the game was pretty easy once I beat it with more than 5 hearts. Thats kind of the beauty though. All of it is optional. I think you can just rush ganon once you're off the plateau if you're good enough. Did you also dislike Shadow of the Colossus?

Sotc is not exactly the same genre, you know that the game is only about finding the creatures with nothing inbetween so the expactions were different, that was a game about killing giants, not an open world action adventure.

 

[Lasha]

Sotc is not exactly the same genre, you know that the game is only about finding the creatures with nothing inbetween so the expactions were different, that was a game about killing giants, not an open world action adventure.

I think that is a stretch. SotC plays like a stripped down BotW. Exploration of a mostly abandoned map represents the bulk of game play. Combat is simple: climb and hit a weak spot vs dodge and hit a flurry combo. The progression in both games involves performing a side activity (lizards/fruits or shrines) to increase your health and stamina. Your goal is basically identical: You defeat a number of beasts in a fallen land to save a princess in a final battle. BotW is basically SotC with slightly more story and many more NPC. I actually loved BotW because it felt more like SotC than the typical Ubisoft open world.

Would you have thought less of SotC if it were a Nintendo IP?

 

[Dynasty8]

Every time Nintendo releases a game people say this.

Thanks for the reminder. You can sleep at ease now.

You're welcome, just stating the facts. It's easier to get away with poor performance and certain mediocre things when your fanbase would kill for you all in the name of nostalgia.

Never said they make bad games.

 

[Schmendrick]

The "Depths" aren`t dungeons, it`s just another map below the overworld map, just like the sky-isles are above it.....but this time you have to turn on light bulbs.
The "Dungeons" aka the temples are glorified bigger shrines not an iota better than the divine beasts were. No comparison to the size and complexity of the actual dungeons in old zeldas unfortunately.
It`s BOTW, but with a bigger but just as empty map and building mechanics, which have the same terrible "everything breaks" mechanics bolted on top of it as the other gear....

 

[GymWolf]

I think that is a stretch. SotC plays like a stripped down BotW. Exploration of a mostly abandoned map represents the bulk of game play. Combat is simple: climb and hit a weak spot vs dodge and hit a flurry combo. The progression in both games involves performing a side activity (lizards/fruits or shrines) to increase your health and stamina. Your goal is basically identical: You defeat a number of beasts in a fallen land to save a princess in a final battle. BotW is basically SotC with slightly more story and many more NPC. I actually loved BotW because it felt more like SotC than the typical Ubisoft open world.

Would you have thought less of SotC if it were a Nintendo IP?

Nah dude they are pretty different games, cmon, it's not even a debate.

I don't judge who make the games, just the game.

I scored botw a decent 7, more than some sony or M games, it has both big qualities and big flaws, like i prefer botw over unchy4 or death stranding or halo infinite or gears4\5.

 

[Lasha]

Nah dude they are pretty different games, cmon, it's not even a debate.

I don't judge who make the games, just the game.

I score botw a decent 7, more than some sony or M games.

Yes they are different games in the literal sense. I've told you why I see them as similar. The same criticisms you have about BotW apply doubly so for a game like SotC. Thats why I asked. Your opinion would make a lot more sense if you also didn't like SotC.

 

[GymWolf]

Yes they are different games in the literal sense. I've told you why I see them as similar. The same criticisms you have about BotW apply doubly so for a game like SotC. Thats why I asked. Your opinion would make a lot more sense if you also didn't like SotC.

Not for me because i consider the game very different and i knew exactly what to expect from it, it was a super easy concept for a game, killing giants with nothing inbetween, so i didn't expected to find interesting loot or anything, it was just a boss rush game.

Zelda is a full fledged open world with camps to destroy, puzzles, shrines, dungeons, bosses, loot etc.


Also i played sotc when i was little so different times different taste.

 

[Lasha]

Not for me because i consider the game very different and i knew exactly what to expect from it, it was a super easy concept for a game, killing giants with nothing inbetween, so i didn't expected to find interesting loot or anything, it was just a boss rush game.

Zelda is a full fledged open world with camps to destroy, puzzles, shrines, dungeons, bosses, loot etc.


Also i played sotc when i was little so different times different taste.

lol fair. I would still bet significant money that you would make the same contrarian posts if SotC came out in 2023. Doubly so if the platform were Xbox or Switch.

 

[Danjin44]

Yes they are different games in the literal sense. I've told you why I see them as similar. The same criticisms you have about BotW apply doubly so for a game like SotC. Thats why I asked. Your opinion would make a lot more sense if you also didn't like SotC.

I dont agree with GymWolf 's take on BotW but I definitely agree with SotC being very different game than BotW. in SotC the Wander's goal is to find and kill those Colossus as fast as possible in order to bring Mono back, it not about aimlessly exploring the lands.

In BotW is about exploring and getting stronger in order take on calamity ganon and even help its people to restore hyrule. Both BotW and SotC are vastly different games with different goal.

 

[GymWolf]

lol fair. I would still bet significant money that you would make the same contrarian posts if SotC came out in 2023. Doubly so if the platform were Xbox or Switch.

What the fudge does that even mean? people in here know that i don't pull punches against anyone, be it sony, n or m, many big soners on gaf have me on ignore, i scored death stranding barely a 6, a sony game with kind the same problems as botw (of course different game and everything)

And there is nothing contrarian about my opinions, a lot of people think the same about botw, that's like saying that rockstar games having shitty and very limited missions design is controversial because they score 90+ on MC, games with high scores can have flaws, you know?

Cut the fanboy bullshit you if want a decent discussion.

 

[Lasha]

I dont agree with GymWolf 's take on BotW but I definitely agree with SotC being very different game than BotW. in SotC the Wander's goal is to find and kill those Colossus as fast as possible in order to bring Mono back, it not about aimlessly exploring the lands.

In BotW is about exploring and getting stronger in order take on calamity ganon and even help its people to restore hyrule. Both BotW and SotC are vastly different games with different goal.

BotW isn't about aimlessly exploring the lands either. You're looking for the four beasts to defeat Ganon. The only real difference between the two at a technical level is that you can beat BotW right after finishing the plateau portion of the game instead of wandering to the different beasts. The difference is superfluous because you still have to fight the forms of Ganon that you missed in sequential boss phases.

The similarities aren't solely my opinion. Eiji Aounuma admits that BotW was heavily influenced by SotC. He had many talks with Fumito Ueda when fleshing out the design of BotW.

 

[Danjin44]

BotW isn't about aimlessly exploring the lands either. You're looking for the four beasts to defeat Ganon. The only real difference between the two at a technical level is that you can beat BotW right after finishing the plateau portion of the game instead of wandering to the different beasts. The difference is superfluous because you still have to fight the forms of Ganon that you missed in sequential boss phases.

The similarities aren't solely my opinion. Eiji Aounuma admits that BotW was heavily influenced by SotC. He had many talks with Fumito Ueda when fleshing out the design of BotW.

If SotC goal was for you to explore then they wouldn't give you the sword that shows where to find those Colossus, it would just let you find it yourself. In BotW the goal is for Link to get stronger and order to get stronger he has to explore.

 

[Spaceman292]

I think that is a stretch. SotC plays like a stripped down BotW. Exploration of a mostly abandoned map represents the bulk of game play. Combat is simple: climb and hit a weak spot vs dodge and hit a flurry combo. The progression in both games involves performing a side activity (lizards/fruits or shrines) to increase your health and stamina. Your goal is basically identical: You defeat a number of beasts in a fallen land to save a princess in a final battle. BotW is basically SotC with slightly more story and many more NPC. I actually loved BotW because it felt more like SotC than the typical Ubisoft open world.

Would you have thought less of SotC if it were a Nintendo IP?

Shadow is nothing like BOTW what are you even talking about. Shadow is laser focused whereas BOTW is the exact opposite. Shooting three lizards in 5 hours of gameplay doesn't count as an activity.

 

[DenchDeckard]

As excited as I was for Elden Ring.....This doesn't happen often team!

We in for a good one!

 

[Lasha]

If SotC goal was for you to explore then they wouldn't give you the sword that shows where to find those Colossus, it would just let you find it yourself. In BotW the goal is for Link to get stronger and order to get stronger he has to explore.

The goal in BotW is to beat Ganon. If the goal was to explore you wouldn't get a quest market pointing you right at Hyrule Castle from the start. SotC required players to explore to find lizards and fruit to increase health and stamina if they found the increases from killing the bosses to be insufficient. BotW requires players to find and complete shrines to increase health and stamina if the increases from finishing the beasts isn't enough for them to kill Ganon. Both require all bosses to be completed to unlock the final battle. BotW gives you the choice of splitting it up into separate encounters or running them as 6 phases in a row. Both are boss rushes either way.

I'm really beginning to question how many people have actually beaten SotC if they find what I am writing controversial. BotW is the excellent DNA of SotC with more plot bolted on top of it. I could understand disliking BotW if you didn't like SotC since both games are quite different from modern open world games. I don't understand how somebody could love SotC and hate BotW since they share so much in common.

 

[MagiusNecros]

BotW and I assume TotK takes the Fallout approach where they throw you into Hyrule and you have no idea what happened only with a main objective. And it's up to you to explore Hyrule and gear yourself up enough to defeat Ganon the ultimate evil and take your place as the current incarnation of the Heroic Spirit.

You are given very little direction and must figure out the way forward further bolstered by you exploring the map and figuring out what all transpired while you the hero were effectively "dead". As not only the sparse narrative is needed to learn what happened but you must also take into account the state of Hyrule itself to provide those details. Should you so choose you can attempt to storm the castle and beat the game at the very beginning.

Overall you can find many mysteries in Hyrule just by exploring. And that's the entirety of Hyrule and now it's twice as big in TotK.

SotC has no such thing where you leave the world at large after crossing a bridge and are pointed into the direction you need to head in which is kill all the giants in the game. It's a very linear game in going to point A to B. ANd are basically given everything you need to succeed at the beginning. There is some exploration for HP/Stamina increases but it is very limited.

 

[Nico_D]

They said that creating dungeons was a real challenge. Why? Was it any more or less of a challenge when you did it in every other Zelda game successfully before BoTW? I don't understand what would make it so difficult now.

Considering Twilight Princess has the best dungeons, it's clearly a difficult thing to repeat.

 

[BbMajor7th]

I think the attention seeking works both ways. More people giving more genuine negative opinions, more attention seeking inflammatory negativity and more trolling is met with more people wanting to be right and jumping on negativity because people aren't always content to let others have an opinion.

It's not uncommon these days for people to build their identities around the emotional connection they feel toward entertainment mediums. Telling someone you don't like their favourite game/film/book isn't just expressing an opinion anymore, it's an insult and a slight against a person's whole being.

It's weird, but something had to fill the hole left by religion.

 

[hemo memo]

I'll posted my review:

Graphics are better than BOTW

Dungeons are WAY better than BOTW

Enemies and combats are WAY WAY better than BOTW

World and sandbox is WAY WAY WAY better than BOTW


WAY WAY WAY better than BOTW/10

 

[Filben]

If you're looking for a linear dungeon filled with puzzles, small keys, boss keys, and a dungeon item - too bad

Fuck I've hoped for non linear open world action and traversal and nonlinear order of which dungeon to beat but expected some linearity and eye-of-a-needle design at dungeons... or some places at least.

Maybe I should give BotW a second chance instead.

 

[KungFucius]

There are barely any enemies in any of them that I've seen. It's much more a series of small puzzles you can tackle in any order. Again, just like the Divine Beasts were.

One dungeon is mostly based around using trampolines to fly around and icicles to attach to things as levers. Another is based on using mine carts to go up/down levels while you shoot switches to change the tracks. Another is just a big open area in the sky with some water pools in it.

There's like... a black bokoblin or two in there? Some blue chuchus, if I recall?

Worst part is that because they don't know which dungeon you'll do when, they replay the same cutscene at you every time you beat one - and it's a long one. Yes, the companion changes, but it's almost word-for-word the same.

But on the other hand, they DO fit in with the world around them, they ARE elemental themed, and there are classic Zelda bosses that DO reward you with heart containers. For a lot of people that might be enough. It's not like the Divine Beasts where they even looked like the basic shrines. But if you're someone who can analyze game design, you'll easily see that they're just the Divine Beast-style dungeons in fancier clothes.

EDIT: I will say this, the *approaches* to each dungeon are pretty fucking cool, and if you consider them part of the overall experience then that elevates things a lot. It's just linear platforming and puzzle solving on a treacherous route to the dungeon itself, whether in the sky or underground, but it's fun as hell.

The approach is part of the dungeon. I only did one, but I loved that part of it and the boss fight was pretty great too. And while I am at it, I like the shrines too. Short quick little puzzles to get a small reward. Much better than the old find a 1/4 heart piece here and there thing. I don't get the disappointment. People must just have short attention spans. I would hate it if the world was filled with monsters or whatever it is they want to make it not bland to them. I don't feel any need for a classic style Zelda if it prevents me from getting another one of these in 7 or so years.

 

[GigaBowser]

The core combat looks exactly the same, same short combo for every weapon, backflip and counter rush, how is the combat WAY WAY better than botw?
Are the enemies less retarded and harder to deal with? Because let's be honest the only non-shitty enemy in botw were the lineels.

Is it because now you can fuse stuff on weapons?

Lotsa new ememies, bosses and creatures with better difficulty and some new AI's and physics plus tons of weapons.

It's the best Zelda combats ever, and dungeons are way, way better.

The only thing I don't like about TOTK is that it's almost too good

 

[artsi]

I love the game but anyone expecting it to be any different experience from BOTW (with content additions and improvements) is false hope, sorry.

It's still a 10/10 game though.

 

[Soodanim]

It's not uncommon these days for people to build their identities around the emotional connection they feel toward entertainment mediums. Telling someone you don't like their favourite game/film/book isn't just expressing an opinion anymore, it's an insult and a slight against a person's whole being.

It's weird, but something had to fill the hole left by religion.

Console wars in a nutshell

 

[hemo memo]

I did one dungeon so far (the sky one) and it was shorter, easier and worst than any divine beast in Botw lol