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The frustrating side of PC gaming and I want to be done with it.

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I get it. You're better off adding another layer to your browser via extensions, though. Noscript is wonderful in that respect once configured. uBlock Origin is excellent as well, though uses more finesse given it is primarily for ads.

Normally I'd be on the "fuck Avast" train but given that other forum post I'm not as quick to suggest Avast as the sole cause as I might have otherwise been.
Realistically you do need get rid of both. Kill 'em. Rule both of them out. Install an ESET trial and see if that cures your issues for a month - Defender is decent these days... but for elevated risk browsing you should have something better.
Which other forum post are you referring to?
I forgot to mention this before, but my laptop has Avast and Malwarebytes also and never once had a bluescreen. I don't really have that much different in terms of what I have installed on either system. Obviously, my PC is much more complex than my laptop and I usually just let the Dell software install updates and such.
 

Kenpachii

Gold Member
Doesn't matter if your work pc has no issue's. It's all trash software that sits in your registery fucking with windows more than not for absolute no reason.

If your PC at some point gets a tad slow because u visit to much dark websites full of shady content, u just reinstall windows. The first thing i do when i get a laptop is format the living shit out of it. All boggles down performance / stability.

Windows defender is all u need and addblock to prevent most shit from hitting your computer through websites.
 
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JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.

PhoenixTank

Member
Which other forum post are you referring to?
Just the one you dug up on the MalwareBytes forum. They're led to believe that the issue is MB initially, from some other source, but they also have Avast, as you've read.
I forgot to mention this before, but my laptop has Avast and Malwarebytes also and never once had a bluescreen. I don't really have that much different in terms of what I have installed on either system. Obviously, my PC is much more complex than my laptop and I usually just let the Dell software install updates and such.
Unfortunately that doesn't mean a whole lot. I know you're not big on IT repair shops, and it sounds like you've had to deal with overcharging cowboys before but having multiple AVs is a big red flag to me and I think anyone worth their salt would pick it up. Hell I tend to check for bad/incomplete uninstalls of old antivirus software as well.

Again, no problem with using 1 Antivirus program & then MBAM on top in a strictly "on demand" scan, with no active protection. This just applies for two AVs actively fucking around in kernel space.

Rule them out. You're one motherboard replacement in and were ready to sell your parts and start again, man.
 

Raploz

Member
Windows Defender is only enough if you don't access any shady websites, otherwise there are better options out there:



Please, uninstall both Avast and Malwarebytes (temporarily at least) and see if the problem persists.

You can also try to run another OS like Ubuntu from a USB stick (you don't even have to install it, there's a live mode you can use), browse the web for some hours and see if anything happens. If errors appear while running Linux that means it's probably the hardware, if not then it might be something related to Windows or programs you've installed.
 

MagnesG

Banned
Ublock origin?
Best one is VPN? I'd rather not use a VPN since it will decrease my internet speeds so much. I have 1000MBps up and down on ATT Fiber. Using a VPN drops the speed to well under 100 Mbps.
One of the best adblock + nano defender, adsbypasser, anti adblock killer, recaptcha helper scripts. Just these would've already help going through into anything on the net.
VPN is overkill, but if you're that paranoid about securities, IDK up to you.
For me using external AV software would've always slows down my PC startup so I've ditched them long ago.

Good luck with the search though.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Just the one you dug up on the MalwareBytes forum. They're led to believe that the issue is MB initially, from some other source, but they also have Avast, as you've read.

Unfortunately that doesn't mean a whole lot. I know you're not big on IT repair shops, and it sounds like you've had to deal with overcharging cowboys before but having multiple AVs is a big red flag to me and I think anyone worth their salt would pick it up. Hell I tend to check for bad/incomplete uninstalls of old antivirus software as well.

Again, no problem with using 1 Antivirus program & then MBAM on top in a strictly "on demand" scan, with no active protection. This just applies for two AVs actively fucking around in kernel space.

Rule them out. You're one motherboard replacement in and were ready to sell your parts and start again, man.
I'll give that a try. Obviously, your top suggestion would be to get rid of both and just leave Defender, but in my case you're suggesting to leave Avast as is and leave MWB off and just run it as needed?
 

SF Kosmo

...please disperse...
Specs:
Asus ROG Strix-E X570
AMD 3900X
Corsair 4 x 8GB 3200 Corsair memory sticks
EVGA Geforce 2080 Ti.
Sabrent M2 SSD 4.0 512 GB
Sabrent M2 SSD 2TB - where I keep most of my games.
Two additional 4TB HDDs.
PSU EVGA
Corsair All-in-one cooler.

I am pretty upset right now, because today I may be finally broken on dealing with PC.
It has become an unresponsive piece of crap and I don't know where to begin as far as diagnosis. There is very little to indicate what is causing the problem. I have been building an using PCs since the late 90s and this is the first time where I am seriously questioning whether it is worth it. PCs and gaming on a PC are wonderful experiences when they work right, but when you are having issues and you can't pinpoint the cause, it just becomes a fucking nightmare.


All of these parts are at least a year old aside from the Sabrent SSD 4.0 which is about 9 months old.

It started a couple of weeks ago with occasional bluescreens (NDU.sys was the primary guilty party) the causes seemed to happen when I was browsing the internet. I tried to find a fix, but searching (NDU.sys) gives you nothing but very generic suggestions and nothing really worked and most are advertisements to download software. There was no repeatable pattern, it just happened randomly with the common factor being the internet browsing. It never happened while gaming, only when browsing the internet. Other issues, are there are times when Windows wouldn't completely load. Many of the startup apps wouldn't complete and sometimes I would have to restart several times to get it to properly load. Most of these have been few and far between, but today I finally decided that I had had enough and decided to wipe my computer clean and do a fresh install. I performed a secure erase and used a brand new Windows install USB. Much to my surprise, not only did it not fix the issues, in many ways things are worse. Mainly because the bluescreen showed up again and now PV randomly hangs and I can't close or start apps. I end up hitting the reset button and from there it takes a couple of minutes to load Windows. There doesn't seem to be a discernible pattern.

Possible culprits that I am open to:
A bad motherboard ethernet port.
A possibly incorrect motherboard setting.
RAM not being compatible - doesn't seem likely since it was fine until a few weeks ago.
My 2TB SSD might be going bad, after the reinstall it was having issues being accessed. I did a secure erase on this and tried to install Origin, but when it started downloading a game, it lead to the system hanging. Not freezing or bluescreening. I will test this more and see if I can repeat the results. I would mention that when I got my 4.0 512 SSD back in November I was using the top M2 drive for my OS SSD and the 2TB was in the bottom M2 drive. However, when I tried to put the new 4.0 SSD in the top M2 drive, it wouldn't work and I ended up having to put it in the bottom M2 and moved the 2TB to the top. Maybe it had something to do with being near the video card.

Alright GAF, please help. I can't figure out anything. I'd like to try and narrow it down.

If I had to make an educated guess, it would be that Windows 10 version 2004 is complete shit and it's just not fully tweaked the way MS expected or hoped.
RAM is easy to diagnose since you have plenty to spare. Pull one out at a time and see if shit starts behaving.

My instincts are telling me memory or power supply, that's where most of my instability issues tend to come from.
 

Golgo 13

The Man With The Golden Dong
Suggested on PCGamingWiki for high fps gameplay, and it might be doing more than just setting bSmoothFrameRate.
May want to backup and reset your ini edits before using it.
To be honest the random slowdowns sound like Physx. Has been a long time since I played, though.
Tried everything, including disabling PhysX completely. The launcher didn't work either, sadly. Still get drops from 144 FPS to 20 FPS randomly that cause the entire game to feel extremely sluggish and broken. Oh well, I appreciate the help.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
RAM is easy to diagnose since you have plenty to spare. Pull one out at a time and see if shit starts behaving.

My instincts are telling me memory or power supply, that's where most of my instability issues tend to come from.
Memory has been replaced once already. Extremely unlikely to be that. PSU is EVGA 850 Watt gold. Possible, but not likely and I don't really know what I am looking for in that regard.

It seems that Avast and Malwarebytes are not playing nicely with eachother. Im still skeptical on that one, since I have been using that combo for well over a year and it works just fine on my laptop, but I've seen it get mentioned on the Windows tech support sites several times over the last month and most mention Avast and Malwarebytes.

For the time being, I am going to keep test a combination of Malwarebytes on and put Avast in passive mode OR turn malwarebytes off and avast on.
 

PhoenixTank

Member
I'll give that a try. Obviously, your top suggestion would be to get rid of both and just leave Defender, but in my case you're suggesting to leave Avast as is and leave MWB off and just run it as needed?
Preference would be removing both and using ESET instead at least temporarily, rather than Defender, yes.

Possible that MBAM has interfered with important Avast files/permissions or vice versa. I'd go with better safe than sorry and remove all, but you can try with MBAM inactive and see how it goes, then escalate from there. You only stand to learn something useful from a positive result with that half measure, y'know?

Tried everything, including disabling PhysX completely. The launcher didn't work either, sadly. Still get drops from 144 FPS to 20 FPS randomly that cause the entire game to feel extremely sluggish and broken. Oh well, I appreciate the help.
Ah, that sucks. Locking to 60 might be the lesser evil if you're still playing. Can have a whole load of issues with games that weren't meant to run at high fps, sadly. Even the recent Spyro port has issues. The higher the FPS, the lower your jump height!
 
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KiNeMz

Banned
No, because you can't do anything in safe mode.
You can atleast launch into safe mode with networking and browse the web like you usually do. IF you still get the crash you know its hardware. But if not its a driver.

Depending on those results are what the next steps are. If its software you need to kill all process and eliminate 1 by 1. Or if its hardware you need to isolate as mush as you can.

Also if you are troubleshooting blue screens you need to have the this box as minimalist as possible while testing. Barebones software is what you want. 2 AV solutions are just introducing way to many variables.

Unistall everything that you have on this thing. Better yet reimage new windows 10. Barebones. install your browser of choice, steam and whatever games. Nothing else. . Make sure you have an isolated backup of all your data on a spare drive. Now use the fuck out of it and try make it crash. If it doesnt, add 1 program back a day.
 
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JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Preference would be removing both and using ESET instead at least temporarily, rather than Defender, yes.
You have me intrigued on ESET. It seems to be both an Anti-virus and anti-malware rolled into one. Since you're endorsing it, it's obviously good, right?! RIGHT?!!

EDIT: I uninstalled MWB and Avast and will use ESET Internet Security for the next 30 days. If I like what I see and BSODs disappear, then I'm in.
 
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longdi

Banned
For shadey websites, i use windows sandbox + windows application guard. at least i hope the VM will protect me :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

PhoenixTank

Member
You have me intrigued on ESET. It seems to be both an Anti-virus and anti-malware rolled into one. Since you're endorsing it, it's obviously good, right?! RIGHT?!!

EDIT: I uninstalled MWB and Avast and will use ESET Internet Security for the next 30 days. If I like what I see and BSODs disappear, then I'm in.
Yeah, a decade or so of use from me. Low performance impact and low false positives.
Worth noting that ESET IS has a software firewall that you may or may not want.
Fingers crossed that removing the others solves it for you.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Update: PhoenixTank PhoenixTank 's advice appeared to be solid. I uninstalled Avast and Malwarebytes and replaced them with ESET and so far have not had a single bluescreen. It's only one day, but it's a good sign and I'll take it.
Analysis of the dump files does suggest that Avast was definitely a contributor. Something else that is weird suggests that my Wireless Xbox Controller dongle may have also had an issue. Weird. I'll just run it wired to the PC from here on out.

I did a full playthrough of Metro Last Light today and had only one game crash, which is fine for a game known for crashing (or at least I think)
 
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VPN is overkill, but if you're that paranoid about securities, IDK up to you.
A VPN is not about to protect you from malware, it may shiled you from some types of monitoring and region locking... (obviously it could also blacklist malware IPs/DNS and protect you at the source, but you may as well configure your network connections with DNSs servers that clock those:
List of Threat-blocking DNS Services
We are aware of the following DNS services offering malware blocking and anti-phishing capabilities to home users (as of December 2017):

  • OpenDNS Home (comes with admin panel with optional user registration) - 208.67.222.222, 208.67.220.220
  • Comodo Secure DNS - 8.26.56.26, 8.20.247.20
  • Norton ConnectSafe - 199.85.126.10, 199.85.127.10
  • IBM Quad 9 - 9.9.9.9
  • Neustar Free Recursive DNS - 156.154.70.2, 156.154.71.2
  • SafeDNS (comes with admin panel with optional user registration) - 195.46.39.39, 195.46.39.40
  • Comodo Shield (comes with admin panel with optional user registration) - 8.26.56.10, 8.20.247.10
  • Strongarm (comes with admin panel with optional user registration) - 54.174.40.213, 52.3.100.184
  • Yandex.DNS - 77.88.8.88, 77.88.8.2
  • SafeSurfer (paid service, main focus is blocking adult websites) - 104.155.237.225, 104.197.28.121
Disclaimer: Be aware that organisations operating these services will have access to your DNS resolution history, which may allow them to reconstruct your browsing history. If you have privacy concerns over this, have a look at our latest guide on self-hosted malware-blocking DNS servers instead.

I use the openDNS Home ones and they are great so far no issue.

There are also host files with list of DNS servers that block everything locally, but that won't help you on your phone(s).
 

Jad-Just_A_Dale

Neo Member
Edit: I made most of this post, took a crap then typed the last line before posting only for the issue to be resolved. Lol, sorry about that.

I'm going to do a thorough check into your system setup. Some boards don't afford full bandwidth to nvmes in certain slots. Either that or the bandwidth somehow being sucked up is a possible, although very unlikely, potential cause for this issue.

I experienced this with an nvme drive before. It happened, even when it wasn't my boot drive. Removing it stopped the issue. Disabling it via the device manager stopped the issue. Removing it, cleaning it, the surrounding area and reenabling trim actually fixed the issue. It occurred in both Windows and Linux. I don't know if it somehow become improperly seated after being in my system for over a year, was overheating or something else but it's no longer a problem. If that doesn't do it, I can suggest the following:

Create a live Linux USB with Ubuntu (or nearly Anywhere distro of the special memtest86 live) and run memtest86 multiple times. Overnight with all of the sticks, then for an hour or two with each one individually (shouldn't be necessary if you don't get errors otherwise).

Before doing that though, have you checked the Event Viewer for errors yet? How about device manager, is any device showing errors/failures?

Since the issue is random, the above info combined with a light system stress test can help (Passmark; it'll touch on most components quickly; I like occt but this is for trying to trigger via a standard stressor). Pay attention to which test fails/causes a system freeze (if it happens). Run it 2-3 times.

You can also try rolling your windows updates back to a week or more before the issue started happening to see if that's the problem.

If none of this helps, run a live Linux distro and web surf. Basically just normal usage or try to hammer it. Neither way, it should be possible to reproduce this issue across operating systems if it's a hardware issue, otherwise it's either very obscure or something is wrong with software someplace.
 
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MagnesG

Banned
A VPN is not about to protect you from malware, it may shiled you from some types of monitoring and region locking... (obviously it could also blacklist malware IPs/DNS and protect you at the source, but you may as well configure your network connections with DNSs servers that clock those:


I use the openDNS Home ones and they are great so far no issue.

There are also host files with list of DNS servers that block everything locally, but that won't help you on your phone(s).
I'm aware of that, it's just that it is much easier to suggest VPN rather than DNS for less hassle users.
 

JayK47

Member
I have spent hours getting my new PC to run Deus Ex Mankind Divided. When I first played the game I had to play it on the lowest setting and looked forward to playing it on max settings. I just had to turn off half of my cores to play the game and I had to turn down many settings that were crashing the game. What a pain.
 

vdopey

Gold Member
First thing is check your motherboard bios, are you running the latest bios ? The PCIE-4 issues may be bios related and there maybe a new bios which fixes the issues.

Its not something you are probably used to, but put something like Ubuntu on a usb disk and boot from that - then use ubuntu to diagnose the issue, there are other distros specifically designed around diagnosing hardware issues.

The main thing is when the machine is booted up check dmesg - if it has any issues you will see it in the log, as it initialises every bit of hardware it lists them out,

you can get deep into any specific piece of hardware, there is lspci / lsusb these give you listings of the hardware - if you can / have the time install Linux on the drive thats acting up - there is a bunch of performance tests you can run using this, like unigine benchmark or basemark.

You can get the test packages here: https://www.basemark.com/benchmarks/basemark-gpu/ or here: https://benchmark.unigine.com/superposition?lang=en

This video gives some tips on debugging issues on linux: or alternatively this: https://www.linux.com/news/hardware-diagnostics-open-source-tools/


This is actually pretty good as well:
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Update: went the whole day without one single bluescreen. PC stayed on all day. Getting rid of Avast and Malwarebytes was a good solution. Analysis of the dump files suggests that the Avast was more responsible for the issue.

I do have to wonder why this issue has never happened on my laptop where I still use Avast and Malwarebytes.
 
Update: went the whole day without one single bluescreen. PC stayed on all day. Getting rid of Avast and Malwarebytes was a good solution. Analysis of the dump files suggests that the Avast was more responsible for the issue.

I do have to wonder why this issue has never happened on my laptop where I still use Avast and Malwarebytes.
Now you just gotta be safe on those automobile sites. Thankfully it seems like your issue has been resolved. Cause it really sucks when issues like those arise.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Now you just gotta be safe on those automobile sites. Thankfully it seems like your issue has been resolved. Cause it really sucks when issues like those arise.
Avast and Malwarebytes had been coexisting fine for over a year. It's just weird that now all of the sudden they had issues. It's also possible that an AMD driver update or something along those lines also caused an issue.

Just played 3 hours of Dishonored 2. Man that game is awesome in 4K/60
 

Iorv3th

Member
Update: PhoenixTank PhoenixTank 's advice appeared to be solid. I uninstalled Avast and Malwarebytes and replaced them with ESET and so far have not had a single bluescreen. It's only one day, but it's a good sign and I'll take it.
Analysis of the dump files does suggest that Avast was definitely a contributor. Something else that is weird suggests that my Wireless Xbox Controller dongle may have also had an issue. Weird. I'll just run it wired to the PC from here on out.

I did a full playthrough of Metro Last Light today and had only one game crash, which is fine for a game known for crashing (or at least I think)

You didn't need to uninstall both of them, but you shouldn't have 2 antiviruses running at the same time. That is whats fucking your system up.
 
Could be a newer driver file or DLL is being picked up by the anti virus as a rogue and it's interfering with the function causing a blue screen.
 
I treat my computer like my immune system. I allow all the viruses in, hoping my immune system builds up to fight them one day.....


63 windows installs later... I'm still hopeful 🤞
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Update: 5 days have passed and I have not seen a bluescreen since last saturday. The major change was that both Avast and Malwarebytes have been removed and replaced with ESET Internet Security.

Also, I bought a Corsair 500GB PCI Gen4 NVME installed in my Asrock Taichi and is running my OS on the PCI-Express 4.0 lanes running off the CPU and working flawlessly. LOVE IT!!!

My previous Sabrent 500GB PCI 4.0 on my Asus X570-E motherboard never even booted when it was installed in the M2_1 slot, which has the 4 PCI lanes coming from the CPU. So I had to install it in one of the slots where the PCI lanes were coming from the chipset. Weird, but it is what it is. That motherboard is gone. The Sabrent drive has been sent back to Sabrent for RMA. Once I get that back, I will probably install it in my laptop, where it should run safely on PCI-Express 3.0.
 
H

hariseldon

Unconfirmed Member
Update: 5 days have passed and I have not seen a bluescreen since last saturday. The major change was that both Avast and Malwarebytes have been removed and replaced with ESET Internet Security.

Also, I bought a Corsair 500GB PCI Gen4 NVME installed in my Asrock Taichi and is running my OS on the PCI-Express 4.0 lanes running off the CPU and working flawlessly. LOVE IT!!!

My previous Sabrent 500GB PCI 4.0 on my Asus X570-E motherboard never even booted when it was installed in the M2_1 slot, which has the 4 PCI lanes coming from the CPU. So I had to install it in one of the slots where the PCI lanes were coming from the chipset. Weird, but it is what it is. That motherboard is gone. The Sabrent drive has been sent back to Sabrent for RMA. Once I get that back, I will probably install it in my laptop, where it should run safely on PCI-Express 3.0.

Good news - glad your computer is no longer being a bag of dicks.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
No bluescreens. Over a week and half has passed. The moral of the story is, if you have been getting bluescreens and are using Avast and Malwarebytes, then maybe it is time to get rid of them.
System has been pleasantly stable and enjoyable. Playing Rise of the Tomb Raider now!
 
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PhoenixTank

Member
Wait so what's a safe step up from Defender?
For free or for money?

No bluescreens. Over a week and half has passed. The moral of the story is, if you have been getting bluescreens and are using Avast and Malwarebytes, then maybe it is time to get rid of them.
System has been pleasantly stable and enjoyable. Playing Rise of the Tomb Raider now!
Fantastic. I'll send you/ESET an invoice :messenger_tears_of_joy:
10/11 days is still a bit soon for me to do a victory lap, but I hope your stability continues!
 

Golgo 13

The Man With The Golden Dong
Why do so many open-world games STUTTER?! I'm fairly certain it's not a hardware issue -- my PC is new, capable, and as I've said -- plenty of demanding games run fine. I've had it now with Arkham City, AC: Syndicate, and now GTA5. Zero stuttering in huge open world games like Witcher 3, though.

The only link I can think of is Direct X11. The stuttering isn't overwhelmingly bad in most games, but it's really fucking distracting going from 144FPS to 30 for a few seconds. Is this just a byproduct of PC gaming and the wide-open ecosystem?
 
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