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[Gaiff]

First of all, let me preface this by saying I have nothing against indie games. Some of my best friends are black favorite games are indies such as Hollow Knight or Hades. With that said, to me, a Playstation showcase should be all about what can only be found and played on the Playstation. I can give a pass to world premier of AAA games that are multiplat but little titles such as Cat's Quest? Nobody buys a PS5 for those kinds of games, come on. I'm not saying it's bad but it can probably be played on a mobile device or on my 2008 PC that I use as a printer server.

Showcases of Xbox, Playstation, and Nintendo should be all about celebrating the platform and wowing us with games that these major companies have on offer. I sort of miss the olden days of E3 where the Playstation booth would have stuff like Shadow of the Colossus, Killzone 2, Heavenly Sword, Uncharted, and other such games and the Xbox booth had Halo, Gears, Fable, and the others. You watched these and went "Wow, I need X or Y console". And if they had multiplats, they were also mind-blowing.

These days, I feel that all of these conferences are padded to hell with indie games. There are plenty of other occasions to show these off such as the Summer Game Fest, The Game Awards, the PC Games Show, and many others. As it stands, all of these showcases end up feeling similar. Playstation doesn't really feel tailored to Playstation owners. Same for Xbox. Nintendo is a bit different but I can't say the Direct has me excited. But I guess that with the number of exclusives dwindling for Sony and Microsoft, a show only advertising their games wouldn't be much of a show.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I kind of feel bad for those devs, it must be exciting to have something you worked on being a part of a big showcase like that and then see the reactions.

I’m not criticising you of course and yes a lot of the time they feel like filler to prolong a showcase. Usually they are not the type of games that move consoles, are the type of games that showcase the hardware people want to see particularly the core audience.

I see indie games as a kind of dessert to a main course. There’s some brilliant stuff out there but I take your point.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yep. Everyone wants to love these indie games, but no one even bothers creating Official Threads for these games. No one wants to play them. No one plays them. These shows are for hardcore gamers who want to see AAA exclusives that set the bar and push the medium forward.

The only reason these suits include them is to hide the fact that they have zero games to show from their own studios.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

I have to say I was more interested in 2 indie games, the cat one, and the book one, and the only interesting AAA was Dragon Dogma. If you look most of the Big ones were shooters...

At least indies try to make something more interesting for me.

 

[Dynasty8]

I would honestly get tired if all the announcements or coverage were triple A games... especially when almost all triple A game trailers are typically just cutscenes after cutscenes with little to no gameplay. Indies show mostly gameplay.

And for me personally, there are indie games that I am way more hyped for than triple A games. Silksong, Hades 2, Sea of Stars and more.

 

[Gaiff]

I have to say I was more interested in 2 indie games, the cat one, and the book one, and the only interesting AAA was Dragon Dogma. If you look most of the Big ones were shooters...

At least indies try to make something more interesting for me.

Again, I love myself some indie games and they absolutely have their place in the industry. Hell, I probably play more indie than AAA these days but a Playstation showcase should be for y'know, Playstation stuff. You got that shiny PS5 and people want to see what it can do. It's not like we have 10 events a year from Sony. We have what, 2-3?

They should use those occasions to impress us and show us why the console is there and what they can do with it.

 

[Clear]

Yep. Everyone wants to love these indie games, but no one even bothers creating Official Threads for these games. No one wants to play them. No one plays them. These shows are for hardcore gamers who want to see AAA exclusives that set the bar and push the medium forward.

What? That's like saying hardcore movie fans only watch Marvel movies?

If anything the reverse is true, which is why indies have a bad habit of attracting hipsters.

The only reason these suits include them is to hide the fact that they have zero games to show from their own studios.

That's just dumb. Its about variety and contrast. If everything you show is a big game, then everything is of the same stature and thus "ordinary".

 

[SmokedMeat]

Without indies you’d have a ten minute show.

That’s just the reality. We all know modern AAA blockbusters take years of development. You’re never going to see a show with nothing but those types of games.

 

[March Climber]

 

[bender]

Yep. Everyone wants to love these indie games, but no one even bothers creating Official Threads for these games. No one wants to play them. No one plays them. These shows are for hardcore gamers who want to see AAA exclusives that set the bar and push the medium forward.

The only reason these suits include them is to hide the fact that they have zero games to show from their own studios.

 

[SlimySnake]

What? That's like saying hardcore movie fans only watch Marvel movies?

If anything the reverse is true, which is why indies have a bad habit of attracting hipsters.



That's just dumb. Its about variety and contrast. If everything you show is a big game, then everything is of the same stature and thus "ordinary".

Variety isnt about having one indie game and one AAA game to balance it out. Variety comes from gameplay. From different genres, not production values.

This is what Sony had at E3 2015.
Spiderman - Superhero open world
God of War - Action Adventure Metroidvania
Days Gone - Zombie open world
Detroit - Diagloue driven Adventure game
The Last Guardian - Puzzle based adventure game
Death Stranding - An entire new genre

They didnt need indies for variety. They had variety in their AAA games.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Yep. Everyone wants to love these indie games, but no one even bothers creating Official Threads for these games. No one wants to play them. No one plays them. These shows are for hardcore gamers who want to see AAA exclusives that set the bar and push the medium forward.

I’d play Warhammer Boltgun over anything Sony showed.
Indies are the only ones making games for “hardcore gamers”. AAA is exactly what you saw at the show. A bunch of movies.

 

[ungalo]

As i said on another thread, this is not about variety when those games make for 90% of what we see in the summer for now 3 years.

The low budget games exist to make us accept there are no big solo games.

And franky i played a shit ton of indie in 2021 and 2022 because there was nothing to play on Xbox, and there was no games i could decently compare to real indie gems like Hollow Knight, Cuphead, Outer Wilds, Return of Obra Dinn, Into The Breach or other things from 2019 and before.

Even Hades i kind of liked it but nothing incredible. Perhaps because roguelite are breaking my balls and i rather just replay Isaac if i want to play one, or at best Dead Cells.

Those games don't inspire me like they used to, and i think those shows are partially at fault since they're just spamming them with actually very little respect for them when they're just throwing them at our face like "here take your shit whatever it is, not my problem to make a selection, those just look alright".

 

[TropicanaTwista]

I don't mind indie games there but would agree it was too much. Like having a 10 mins section to show off, go for it. But it seemed paced badly and all over the place. There needs to be more AAA from first party at a showcase. Just has to be. Sony does numerous state of plays to throughout the year to already show off indie/VR2 stuff.

I will say though, not cool OP for calling out Cats Quest. That was like the only interesting indie I recall seeing, along with Ultros. But that's kind of the nature of the beast with indies. 80% look like trash and a select few look cool and interesting

 

[Robb]

Yeah I’ve become kind of burned out on indies tbh. Especially the pixelated ones. I loose interest immediately no matter how good it may be.

 

[SlimySnake]

Indies are the only ones making games for “hardcore gamers”. AAA is exactly what you saw at the show. A bunch of movies.

I couldnt disagree more. Indies are making games for a very select group of hardcore gamers. Most of the hardcore gamers on this board do not create threads to discuss their favorite indie game when it comes out but we do get a billion threads on each AAA game like star wars jedi survivor.

 

[Astray]

I agree that indies tend to drag especially when no gameplay is shown (yesterday's showcase was the 1st one I watched live, never making that mistake again for anyone).

With that said, I thought Plucky Squire looked really really good. Felt almost like a Nintendo game in some ways, and Devolver have an amazing track record. That's likely gonna be a week 1 purchase if the pricing and reviews are right.

So what I guess I'm saying is, good indies can make the slog worth it.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I couldnt disagree more. Indies are making games for a very select group of hardcore gamers. Most of the hardcore gamers on this board do not create threads to discuss their favorite indie game when it comes out but we do get a billion threads on each AAA game like star wars jedi survivor.

A billion threads for AAA games like Jedi Survivor is as mainstream/casual as it gets.

 

[TheBROgamer]

Indie games are filler 99.9% for store fronts and conferences, it allows for easy padding.

Making it seem as if there is a lot available, when there really isn't (quality wise).

 

[Ar¢tos]

Yep. Everyone wants to love these indie games, but no one even bothers creating Official Threads for these games. No one wants to play them. No one plays them. These shows are for hardcore gamers who want to see AAA exclusives that set the bar and push the medium forward.

The only reason these suits include them is to hide the fact that they have zero games to show from their own studios.

Shittake award winner!

I play more indie games than AAA.
AAA games are increasingly boring and have tons of unnecessary padding.
Indies are cheaper, shorter, often innovative and go on sale quicker.
Since I only have around 1h-2h per day for gaming, they are ideal for me.

The world doesn't revolve around you.
Get used to a ton of indies in showcases, with AAA development being longer and more expensive, indies will fill the gap.

 

[SlimySnake]

Shittake award winner!

I play more indie games than AAA.
AAA games are increasingly boring and have tons of unnecessary padding.
Indies are cheaper, shorter, often innovative and go on sale quicker.
Since I only have around 1h-2h per day for gaming, they are ideal for me.

The world doesn't revolve around you.
Get used to a ton of indies in showcases, with AAA development being longer and more expensive, indies will fill the gap.

Couldnt care less. I am not talking about you. I didnt say Arctos doesnt play more AAA games than indie games. I am talking about the trends. I am talking about how no one creates threads about indie games. No one gives a shit about 99% of the indie games. And again, when I say no one, im talking about in general.

People simply dont tune into these big E3 showcases to watch an hour of indie games.

 

[Schmendrick]

Yep. Everyone wants to love these indie games, but no one even bothers creating Official Threads for these games. No one wants to play them. No one plays them. These shows are for hardcore gamers who want to see AAA exclusives that set the bar and push the medium forward.

The only reason these suits include them is to hide the fact that they have zero games to show from their own studios.

cold hard truth

 

[Wildebeest]

If they could do a showcase of only four games that most people were interested in, that would be an ideal format for them. Games like that don't need a showcase to be announced or get attention.

 

[GymWolf]

And they didn't even showed little devil inside...

I love indies but there is a right time and momemt to show them, a sony showcase is not one of them, at least not so many.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Couldnt care less. I am not talking about you. I didnt say Arctos doesnt play more AAA games than indie games. I am talking about the trends. I am talking about how no one creates threads about indie games. No one gives a shit about 99% of the indie games. And again, when I say no one, im talking about in general.

People simply dont tune into these big E3 showcases to watch an hour of indie games.

Measuring games success' by OT count or number of posts is as bad as MS counting bullets fired in games....

 

[KXVXII9X]

I agree that indies tend to drag especially when no gameplay is shown (yesterday's showcase was the 1st one I watched live, never making that mistake again for anyone).

With that said, I thought Plucky Squire looked really really good. Felt almost like a Nintendo game in some ways, and Devolver have an amazing track record. That's likely gonna be a week 1 purchase if the pricing and reviews are right.

So what I guess I'm saying is, good indies can make the slog worth it.

It is being worked on by a Nintendo dev (GameFreak) so it isn't surprising. It is one of my most anticipated indie games coming out and I love the concept!

 

[Dick Jones]

Indies need to thrive. If showcases show only the big AAA games, then the indies will die off. Papers, Please is a great little game that no major First or Third Party would consider. Not every game needs to blow you away, they just need a hook. I hope that the MS show shows us other indies that are coming as well. It's not a dirty word.

The main gripe with the show yesterday was it didn't have enough of the traditional Sony Single Player games. That's a fair criticism, I'm the same as those thinking that. I wanted another 2 non-GaaS First Party games announced and a First Party PSVR2 game (cough Astro cough) and I'd be giddy as a schoolgirl [guess the reference]. I would not be happier with all the indies binned from the show, and just have the shorter show. The bread and butter of Sony was rare yesterday but we know certain games are coming and it's likely the games are hit by Covid delays (it's a thing). The fact that most Sony showings were not in engine game demos is worrying but hopefully we'll have it start up again by the end of the year. I doubt Sony won't have a focus game after Spider-Man launches in September.

 

[JaksGhost]

Padding isn't the issue it's the pacing in which they are thrown in Showcases. Grouping together 5-6 indie trailers back-to-back with some just being title reveals is exhausting. You need to spread them out in between the bigger titles. I was bored halfway through the showcase because they just kept coming with nothing Triple A to circumvent the pacing.

 

[Gaiff]

And they didn't even showed little devil inside...

I love indies but there is a right time and momemt to show them, a sony showcase is not one of them, at least not so many.

Exactly my point. This should be used to show off why you should have a PS5 and if not, why you should get one. A bunch of games playable on Switch aren't compelling reasons for that. I'm still holding off for a PS5 Pro or Slim and this showcase really didn't move me.

 

[PaddyOCanager]

I would rather they do a 5-10 minute "indie segment" than just sprinkle them throughout the presentation.

I think it does the audience and the devs a disservice sandwiching an indie game between two AAA big budget titles. Give them a proper pedestal to shine without cockteasing your audience who's hoping the next trailer is MGS3 Remake gameplay or some shit.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I kind of feel bad for those devs, it must be exciting to have something you worked on being a part of a big showcase like that and then see the reactions.

I’m not criticising you of course and yes a lot of the time they feel like filler to prolong a showcase. Usually they are not the type of games that move consoles, are the type of games that showcase the hardware people want to see particularly the core audience.

I see indie games as a kind of dessert to a main course. There’s some brilliant stuff out there but I take your point.

I play my share of dirt cheap indie games, but nobody buys a PC rig or console to focus on $19.99 budget games. If these games were so important they'd be top sellers.

I agree with your analogy of it being dessert. Great to top off a meal, but nobody is going to a pub or restaurant and paying $50 for a slice of cake. Nor is anyone gong to make or break an eatery based on how good their creme brulee is.

I see them like the checkout line at a grocery store. You check out the store's weekly flyer to load up on the main stuff and then you're in line and maybe you grab batteries or a pack of gum. Makes sense to promote in the flyer the key stuff not the fluff. Waste of time and space to make it mostly about breath mints and pocket sized packs of peanuts.

 

[Mossybrew]

Yeah I have to admit I've gotten increasingly tired of indies the last few years. For every Hades there are 20 mediocre wastes of time forgotten a month after they release.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Yeah I have to admit I've gotten increasingly tired of indies the last few years. For every Hades there are 20 mediocre wastes of time forgotten a month after they release.

Good luck trying to sift through Steam. Do a search and choose the filter Release Date to see what's come out lately and you'll be lucky to get one good game on the page.

Every once in a while I'll do a search for Board Games to see what's out. Half of them arent even board games. Right now, Tennis Manager 2023 is classified as a board game. And you always get a slew of junk like jigsaw puzzles and mahjong block games where a dev might launch 10 variations at once.

 

[justiceiro]

The worst part of the show was the first tree games, that looked so similar that I had trouble telling them apart. They really could have used a indie game padding to there.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Yep. Everyone wants to love these indie games, but no one even bothers creating Official Threads for these games. No one wants to play them. No one plays them. These shows are for hardcore gamers who want to see AAA exclusives that set the bar and push the medium forward.

The only reason these suits include them is to hide the fact that they have zero games to show from their own studios.

Bingo, the console manufacturers simply dont have enough thats ready to show. Most of the big third parties dont either, and when they do, they want to show them in their own showcase. So sony and microsoft lean on indies as a crutch now, where it used to be that indies complimented their own line up. Another bi product of triple a game development reaching a point of unusatainability. Things are going to get ALOT worse before they better. Expect microsofts show to be mostly an indie show case as well. The only way to solve this issue is integrating ai into the game development process, or severely scoping down on these projects.

 

[MAtgS]

Plucky Squire & Cat Quest looked more interesting than almost every other game shown yesterday.

 

[Fbh]

Sure I admit I'd rather see more big titles and exciting AAA reveals instead of indies on these showcases. But I'll take indies over boring CG trailers of generic GAAS crap, or the now obligatory Chienese F2P waifu game like Tower of Fantasy, or obvious Chinese/Korean vaporware like Phantom Blade, or some uninspired DOA multiplayer game like Foamstars

 

[cireza]

Some indies are great though and they can offer some variety. I think it is better when manufacturers pick a couple indies/smaller games and put the same focus on them as they would for any other game.

For example Ori back then on Xbox One, or more recently Tunic on Xbox as well. It was great seeing these games, because they are excellent and have good production value.

However parts where you see 20 games every 10 seconds simply suck.

 

[Captain Toad]

Yep. Everyone wants to love these indie games, but no one even bothers creating Official Threads for these games. No one wants to play them. No one plays them.

No one played Hollow Knight, Cuphead, Ori, Stardew Valley, Rocket League, Hades, Minecraft, etc?

Too busy playing stuff like Lord of the Rings Gollum and Redfall?

 

[The Cockatrice]

Its not padding, it's a necessity since neither MS nor Sony have big games to give us.

 

[Captain Toad]

Its not padding, it's a necessity since neither MS nor Sony have big games to give us.

Remember when there were two hour long conferences where half of it was watching people play Call of Duty?

Show me minute long teasers for indies over that crap any day.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Remember when there were two hour long conferences where half of it was watching people play Call of Duty?

Show me minute long teasers for indies over the crap any day.

Fair enough.

 

[RedC]

The whining continues...

 

[gladdys]

Back in 2013 when Xbox burned their own house down, turning their back on the indies was one of their mistakes.

 

[Banjo64]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the biggest players in the industry recognising excellence and promoting it on a small players' behalf.

 

[Success]

We had 3 mainline GTA entries for the PS2.

Triple AAA games simply take longer to make now compared to the 2000's.

So you need to fill the triple A games with AA or indie games.

Once in a while you get a triple A lite indie game like Demon's Souls or Hades.

 

[Impotaku]

There's partial truth to having indies on a PS5 it's a lot of power to play non demanding games i can't imagine many paying all that money out for a cutting edge console just to play budget stuff like that. Would be like someone buying a stupidly powerful pc with the latest graphics card & then just using it to play windows minesweeper.

The AAA landscape however is just full of tired uninspired summer blockbuster style games desperately trying to be like movies, the basic bitches of gaming kid yourselves all you want but you are certanly not hardcore if all you play is AAA you are in the same group as people who play candy crush aka normies. Basically kids/teens that are easily swayed by pretty graphics and shallow gameplay. Sony & microsoft have kind of pushed themselves into a corner with going down the power route people only expect the latest powerful games on those systems indies are not a good fit for either console to be honest. Nintendo is the middle ground there's just as much chance of someone picking up an indie game on that as there is with a 1st party nintendo games.

Personally for me i LOVE indies they can pad the fuck out of any presentation, the more the better there's always something interesting and quirky to keep me playing.