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The Last of Us 2 is "one of the greatest games ever made", according to The Russo Brothers

EDMIX

Member
Enjoy ur Sony fans button with @Lognor ^^

Twas inevitable. Nothing of value was lost.

Really? You mean to tell me that the writing, characterization, and score is better than the greats like Baldur’s Gate I and II? PlaneScape Torment? Final Fantasy IX? Mother 3? It’s gameplay is better than Thief? Metal Gear Solid V? Let’s cut the hyperbole here.

I get that you love this game, and I am glad that you do - but let’s be real here. It isn’t the “best in class“ in anything

Greatly disagree.

All of that is subjective lol If someone tells you they think the writing is better then Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid...even I'd agree as much as I love those IP, those stories are so fucking bat shit crazy, that when you say that shit OUT LOUD it sounds like a fucking comedy. They are great for games, but I just don't know if I can honestly say I'd ever use Final Fantasy or MGS or any thing like that as some example of the greatest things written.

The Last Of Us on the other hand? Its getting a fucking show on HBO... so....I think you need to cope with that the man wrote a fucking amazing story regardless of medium and can rival what is on TV and on the silver screen. Final Fantasy? MGS? fuck no, dear god so much shit would need to be changed, edited, corrected to be taken seriously and I say this as a fucking fan of those IP. I literally have over 200 hours in MGSV and I'm fucking telling you its story is horrid and even the MGS titles I LOVE their stories, if put as a movie...I'd get why someone might say even the best stories are bad or corny etc The Last Of Us is one of the few stories in gaming that is done so well, it can work as a film, tv show cause it is written that well. Final Fantasy and MGS if you fucking wrote it as JUST a book or a show would get laughed at.


I regards to gameplay. MGSV and The Last Of Us 2 is very, very close. the response time and movement in The Last Of Us 2 beats MGSV. Only thing I'd want is the ability to move bodies, other then that....The Last Of Us 2 imho is the better title in terms of gameplay. So with all due respect, I don't see why those statements are some "hyperbolic" thing that someone disagrees with you.

I'd argue its more hyperbolic that you think no one likes its gameplay or story and it musssssst be some conspiracy if they do or something. Do you just believe we are fucking telling you we like it to make you mad? We are playing hundreds of hours of it to upset you? So no one genuinely likes the story or the gameplay? smh.,
 

Represent.

Member
My position has remained consistent throughout, but I'll reiterate...

You're saying "I love TLoU2. How dare you say it's bad."

I'm saying "I'm not interested in personal preferences. TLoU2 is a bad game because it doesn't understand what makes games special. Instead, it tries to be discount TV/Film. That's not strategically sound."
Ah, yes - The typical "this game actually takes itself seriously, and has competent acting and a mature plot, go be a movie" argument. Mostly made by gamers who skip cutscenes and complain when theres a slow walking section for 20 seconds.

How dare games take themselves seriously, we should all stick to Fall Guys.
 
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It's funny when people say, "TLOU 2 fans just can't accept valid criticism" or "TLOU 2 fans just can't accept that people don't like the game."

Look, if you don't like the game then that's fine. It's just that people give some of the worst takes and story analysis out there and then expect no one to say anything.

Yup... there's valid criticism and there's just BS spewed by those who just want to troll the fans.
 
Twas inevitable. Nothing of value was lost.



Greatly disagree.

All of that is subjective lol If someone tells you they think the writing is better then Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid...even I'd agree as much as I love those IP, those stories are so fucking bat shit crazy, that when you say that shit OUT LOUD it sounds like a fucking comedy. They are great for games, but I just don't know if I can honestly say I'd ever use Final Fantasy or MGS or any thing like that as some example of the greatest things written.

The Last Of Us on the other hand? Its getting a fucking show on HBO... so....I think you need to cope with that the man wrote a fucking amazing story regardless of medium and can rival what is on TV and on the silver screen. Final Fantasy? MGS? fuck no, dear god so much shit would need to be changed, edited, corrected to be taken seriously and I say this as a fucking fan of those IP. I literally have over 200 hours in MGSV and I'm fucking telling you its story is horrid and even the MGS titles I LOVE their stories, if put as a movie...I'd get why someone might say even the best stories are bad or corny etc The Last Of Us is one of the few stories in gaming that is done so well, it can work as a film, tv show cause it is written that well. Final Fantasy and MGS if you fucking wrote it as JUST a book or a show would get laughed at.


I regards to gameplay. MGSV and The Last Of Us 2 is very, very close. the response time and movement in The Last Of Us 2 beats MGSV. Only thing I'd want is the ability to move bodies, other then that....The Last Of Us 2 imho is the better title in terms of gameplay. So with all due respect, I don't see why those statements are some "hyperbolic" thing that someone disagrees with you.

I'd argue its more hyperbolic that you think no one likes its gameplay or story and it musssssst be some conspiracy if they do or something. Do you just believe we are fucking telling you we like it to make you mad? We are playing hundreds of hours of it to upset you? So no one genuinely likes the story or the gameplay? smh.,

You seem to have an issue with reading. I listed *a single* Final Fantasy. Not all the games, just one. And I never mentioned MGS as being one of the “greatest written games”. Please do me a favor and actually read what people write before you post a wall of nonsense and petty strawman arguments.
 

skneogaf

Member
It actually is, we just didn't want the story to be like it was!

The gameplay, graphics, sound are absolutely amazing and the story is probably really good to non fans of the games.

It could have been the best game made so far if the story would have been what we were hoping for but it's still up there.

I still would have Joel be beaten into a coma and handicapped afterwards ie a wheel chair or something for future story stuff plus have Abby as a physically fit, shooting expert instead of a worlds strongest woman competitor.

Still amazing all the same.
 

Topher

Gold Member
How many dogs can I throw grenades at, and is the kill count north of 300?

Just wait till you see the "Joel Hole".

Rooster Teeth Hair GIF by Achievement Hunter
 

sncvsrtoip

Member
Sure it is, with rdr2 best last gen game, masterpiece (tough I would prefer to have choice in last fight...).
 
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Ah, yes - The typical "this game actually takes itself seriously, and has competent acting and a mature plot, go be a movie" argument. Mostly made by gamers who skip cutscenes and complain when theres a slow walking section for 20 seconds.

How dare games take themselves seriously, we should all stick to Fall Guys.

How seriously the game takes itself is not the issue.

Removing player agency from the experience is the games fatal flaw.
 
Removing player agency from the experience is the games fatal flaw.
Give me an example please…because it meshes…AAAA cinematics with AAAA gameplay, the game is one of the best at doing it..Eveyone who says this can’t name a game that does it remotely close…This game has Top tier Graphics, sound, gameplay, controls, animation and IMO story…the only thing thats opinion based is story…everything else is stone cold facts!
 

EDMIX

Member
Removing player agency from the experience is the games fatal flaw.

I completely disagree this is not a situation where it makes sense to have player agency like some choice to choose a specific path because the way The Last of Us was created was never designed for that purpose because it has an exact set story

The only area with player agency that I believe should always remain as simply in the gameplay in terms of how you tackle a mission or how you kill an enemy or something like that but because this is a linear experience it would be completely stupid to have some bizarre player agency where they're deciding key moments in the game story

Using this logic many players never even kill the doctor and it's very obvious that narrative needs to occur because there is no choice in the matter.... you're only experiencing it for dramatic purposes but in the ending of the first game they make it pretty clear that Joel's choices are his own and the player does not control the major decisions that occur inside of the game for the sake of actually telling a fucking narrative that makes sense.


So maybe you have a better argument with something like Red Dead Redemption 2 where in my opinion that is the type of game in which they're probably should have been more open player agency because the very things they're saying his character is in regards to a bank robber could easily be Illustrated in the game so there is a massive flaw to not have banks in the game to allow you to freely Rob because it makes sense to what that narrative is. Even further Arthur Morgan's character based on the story is trying to sell you he is like this or like that but by allowing you to freely murder citizens you could have this weird thing where the thing they're trying to tell you about the character doesn't fit the things he does in his everyday life


So I think having a free agency for the player to do something make sense and something like Grand Theft Auto and Red Dead Redemption

Having it in something like a linear game like the last of us or dead space or Uncharted or something like that is silly because there is an exact specific narrative that's being told in which the players actons can contradict something

So tell us why it's a flaw and how it would make sense instead of just telling us "it's a flaw doe" with these weird one-liners because it sounds like you want to just be right by saying something instead of actually really giving a valid point.
 
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Winter John

Member
I'm thinking about buying this since it's on sale. I had serious issues with the first one. The story and graphics were ok. Gameplay was average I guess. My problem was with the A.I and the way they set out the arenas. The A.I was some of the worst I've ever seen. Trying to sneak past enemies while Ellie was bouncing around like a crack whore needing a piss was seriously immersion breaking. The way they just dumped boxes in every arena annoyed me no end. I'd go through areas, see a bunch of crates that didn't belong there and think, aww here comes the shootout section I guess.

I've read a lot of criticism about the sequel. My thoughts on it are mixed because I don't want a replay of the first one. So different characters and all is a positive thing to me. The length and quality of the story are my main concerns. I like Ellie but the last thing I want to play is 30 hours of some middle aged guy's teen lesbian fantasy, unless it's a Pornhub one.
 

Guilty_AI

Gold Member
My thoughts on it are mixed because I don't want a replay of the first one. So different characters and all is a positive thing to me. The length and quality of the story are my main concerns. I like Ellie but the last thing I want to play is 30 hours of some middle aged guy's teen lesbian fantasy, unless it's a Pornhub one.
Its 30 hours of some middle aged guy's teen gore and misery fantasy with some lesbianism on the side.

Oh, and some probably buttsex

 
I completely disagree this is not a situation where it makes sense to have player agency like some choice to choose a specific path because the way The Last of Us was created was never designed for that purpose because it has an exact set story

The only area with player agency that I believe should always remain as simply in the gameplay in terms of how you tackle a mission or how you kill an enemy or something like that but because this is a linear experience it would be completely stupid to have some bizarre player agency where they're deciding key moments in the game story

Using this logic many players never even kill the doctor and it's very obvious that narrative needs to occur because there is no choice in the matter.... you're only experiencing it for dramatic purposes but in the ending of the first game they make it pretty clear that Joel's choices are his own and the player does not control the major decisions that occur inside of the game for the sake of actually telling a fucking narrative that makes sense.


So maybe you have a better argument with something like Red Dead Redemption 2 where in my opinion that is the type of game in which they're probably should have been more open player agency because the very things they're saying his character is in regards to a bank robber could easily be Illustrated in the game so there is a massive flaw to not have banks in the game to allow you to freely Rob because it makes sense to what that narrative is. Even further Arthur Morgan's character based on the story is trying to sell you he is like this or like that but by allowing you to freely murder citizens you could have this weird thing where the thing they're trying to tell you about the character doesn't fit the things he does in his everyday life


So I think having a free agency for the player to do something make sense and something like Grand Theft Auto and Red Dead Redemption

Having it in something like a linear game like the last of us or dead space or Uncharted or something like that is silly because there is an exact specific narrative that's being told in which the players actons can contradict something

So tell us why it's a flaw and how it would make sense instead of just telling us "it's a flaw doe" with these weird one-liners because it sounds like you want to just be right by saying something instead of actually really giving a valid point.

I don't think a game that plays like a 2003 era stealth title is impressive. I loved early Metal Gear Solids + Splinter Cells. Then, after playing 3 or 4 of those games, the basic stealth loop of crouching behind waste high boxes and watching dumb AI patterns in little diorama sized levels got stale.

That formula was bleeding edge in 2001. In 2020, it was so unambitious that we shouldn't let developers get away with it. Spies vs Mercs and MGSV set new standards in stealth that Naughty Dog wanted us to ignore. Many of us did not.

Games with an "exact story" are just poor imitations of film and TV. Those mediums are better suited to tell "exact stories" because player agency is off the table. I played TLoU2 wanting to make different choices than the one's the game forced me to get. I did not watch 28 Days Later with any expectation or desire to control the outcome.

DayZ tells much better stories because that game is designed around player agency. When you make an uneasy alliance with a neighboring faction, you FEEL it. When Abbey makes an uneasy alliance in TLoU2, it never connects with the player because we have no power over the outcomes. It's just a weird gimmick experience based on outdated design concepts that mesh horrendously with the medium.

Also, having unlimited respawns in that game totally kills the tension in a fiction that's supposed to be tension filled. A percentage of us put up with that terrible design because that's what games have always done. Others notice how badly it hurts the experience.

TLDR: Games have evolved past TLoU2. They're on their way to realizing their true potential as player led narratives rather than "exact stories". And that's what makes gaming so much more interesting than books, film, and TV.
 

Ulysses 31

Member
I'm thinking about buying this since it's on sale. I had serious issues with the first one. The story and graphics were ok. Gameplay was average I guess. My problem was with the A.I and the way they set out the arenas. The A.I was some of the worst I've ever seen. Trying to sneak past enemies while Ellie was bouncing around like a crack whore needing a piss was seriously immersion breaking. The way they just dumped boxes in every arena annoyed me no end. I'd go through areas, see a bunch of crates that didn't belong there and think, aww here comes the shootout section I guess.

I've read a lot of criticism about the sequel. My thoughts on it are mixed because I don't want a replay of the first one. So different characters and all is a positive thing to me. The length and quality of the story are my main concerns. I like Ellie but the last thing I want to play is 30 hours of some middle aged guy's teen lesbian fantasy, unless it's a Pornhub one.
Looking forward to your TLOU2 verdict. :messenger_beaming:
 

EDMIX

Member
. I played TLoU2 wanting to make different choices than the one's the game forced me to get. I did not watch 28 Days Later with any expectation or desire to control the outcome.

The first games doesn't give you those types of options, no reason to expect that in part 2.

28 Days later is a film, you have zero control over anything in it.

Even if it was some open world games, you can sure have a free agency style game ala Walking Dead where you make choices on who to save, who to bring with you etc.

So you can have a game where it allows that in a zombie setting...you can have a linear game where the story is set and you are just watching those choices play out.

Both can apply.

Its up to you what you play or not man, you choose to play this that way even with no evidence to even remotely entertain the game was made to offer that choice. Plenty of games exist that give you those options, Walking Dead series, Life Is Strange, Until Dawn etc.

DayZ tells much better stories because that game is designed around player agency.

Then play that....

The thing you are talking about isn't some one size fits all....some games it makes sense, some titles it doesn't work if a story was specifically crafted that can't be altered by the player

hen Abbey makes an uneasy alliance in TLoU2, it never connects with the player because we have no power over the outcomes.

I had no issue with that and that was one of my favorite moments in the game btw. So.....I connected well with that and loved it bud.
If it didn't connect well with you, play games you have power over that concept....

It's just a weird gimmick experience based on outdated design concepts that mesh horrendously with the medium.

lol nahhhh I'd argue that whole "you can choose a path for good or badz" is a massive gimmick.

Also, having unlimited respawns in that game totally kills the tension in a fiction that's supposed to be tension filled.

You need help Men in boxes lol Play it on Perma Death and call it a day, why the fuck would they limit the live on the base game for any of that for tension? Never mind The Last Of Us 2 sir, you are basically asking for something that really isn't some norm default mode in those games and more so some extra hard or grounded type thing, would be like me saying that about any other stealth game as if Boss Extremes isn't a mode in MGS or something.

I mean...you complaining about a feature already in the game.

Others notice how badly it hurts the experience.

I just don't buy that most really care about that man lol Make your own game. Thats all i can say. When you start asking for features that are not the norm, its time for us to just say this game isn't for you, this genre isn't for you.....make your own game. You are looking for an experience that isn't the norm and if anything, you could make some huge IP surrounding all of that.

They're on their way to realizing their true potential as player led narratives rather than "exact stories". And that's what makes gaming so much more interesting than books, film, and TV.

That doesn't mean an exact story can be in a great title man. Its not like the game is on auto or something, you still actually play those events and not every story can be a some player led thing.

I literally like both concepts and it can't be some only 1 like highlander thing. They both have their place and there is not reason to war over a game that has a set story as if being a game means they player must control all.


Rest assured, I will always 99.9% of the time read your whole post lol

Have a good one boxes
 

Ellery

Member
It didnt really split the fanbase though did it, can guarantee the vast majority of the people that played TLOU Part 2 would play Part 3 if it ever released

People act like they've destroyed the franchise, I'd argue that they actually expanded the fan base with part 2

Yep. People would be mad either way. If TLOU2 was basically like TLOU1 then people are upset that there is no innovation in gaming or developers aren't bold. If they release TLOU2 as a bold emotional masterpiece then people are upset that they are "splitting the fanbase". Whatever that means

I 1000% remember people being mad about Metal Gear Solid 2 when it came out. And now people that don't understand the masterpiece and genius of MGS2 look like fools.
 
2 years later and people are still discussing whether this game is good or shit. I think that says that at the very least, ND didn't make a boring, by the numbers game.


Personally, I preferred the story from the first one. But gameplay-wise, two is great
 

Clear

Member
I'm thinking about buying this since it's on sale. I had serious issues with the first one. The story and graphics were ok. Gameplay was average I guess. My problem was with the A.I and the way they set out the arenas. The A.I was some of the worst I've ever seen. Trying to sneak past enemies while Ellie was bouncing around like a crack whore needing a piss was seriously immersion breaking. The way they just dumped boxes in every arena annoyed me no end. I'd go through areas, see a bunch of crates that didn't belong there and think, aww here comes the shootout section I guess.

I've read a lot of criticism about the sequel. My thoughts on it are mixed because I don't want a replay of the first one. So different characters and all is a positive thing to me. The length and quality of the story are my main concerns. I like Ellie but the last thing I want to play is 30 hours of some middle aged guy's teen lesbian fantasy, unless it's a Pornhub one.

The sequel is a considerably longer game than the first, not just because there are more locations and story, but its generally more open than the first. The downside is that the pacing suffers a little because of this, although for me it flows increasingly well the further you get along.

The main thing though about the sequel is how consistently dark and unpleasant it is for a AAA game. Despite what you may have read about its alleged "wokeness" I'd argue that its actually one of the most edgelordy titles out there. It never misses a chance to rub the player's nose in the dirt! Its mean, and nasty, and it takes itself absolutely seriously.

This combined with its commitment to never offer clear-cut heroism or villainy makes it quite an alienating experience. Its really not very likeable by design.

Now this might not sound like much of a recommendation, but it really depends on your perspective. For me, taking this huge team, huge budget, huge IP, off in such an un-commercial direction is admirably brave and artistically committed.
 
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Ellery

Member
The sequel is a considerably longer game than the first, not just because there are more locations and story, but its generally more open than the first. The downside is that the pacing suffers a little because of this, although for me it flows increasingly well the further you get along.

The main thing though about the sequel is how consistently dark and unpleasant it is for a AAA game. Despite what you may have read about its alleged "wokeness" I'd argue that its actually one of the most edgelordy titles out there. It never misses a chance to rub the player's nose in the dirt! Its mean, and nasty, and it takes itself absolutely seriously.

This combined with its commitment to never offer clear-cut heroism or villainy makes it quite an alienating experience. Its really not very likeable by design.

Now this might not sound like much of a recommendation, but it really depends on your perspective. For me, taking this huge team, huge budget, huge IP, off in such an un-commercial direction is admirably brave and artistically committed.

Great point and I absolutely agree that the dark and violent tone of TLOU2 is not for everyone.

I think the pacing of the game was fine to me. It is not often that you get a 30 hour single player experience in a non open world single player game and TLOU2 does that. I don't need constant dopamine rushes in my games with permanent action and button smashing. I am doing that in basically all other games I play.
 

Woggleman

Member
Almost any artist worth their salt makes something polarizing at least once. Look at some of the most beloved movies and albums and see how they were received upon release.

The game is dark and grisly for sure but if you didn't like the gameplay of the first one part two is a considerable improvement in that arena.

If you want a lighthearted and happy game with clear cut heroes this is not for you.
 

Roni

Member
Would a dystopian future tend to make people do awful things? Sure, but I've got my limits in tolerating it...and believing it.
That's the whole point of the game: awful people are still people. We tend to demonize and think violent people can't appreciate art or enjoy a quiet moment with those they love. But they do...
 

Woggleman

Member
We just dealt with and still are to some degree dealing with a pandemic and if you ask me society has seriously devolved. The lights are still on and serviced are up and running and it has still brought out the worst in us.

Why is it so hard so believe in a society where everything completely collapses that things would devolve to the state they are in in TLOU 1 and 2?
 
We just dealt with and still are to some degree dealing with a pandemic and if you ask me society has seriously devolved. The lights are still on and serviced are up and running and it has still brought out the worst in us.

Why is it so hard so believe in a society where everything completely collapses that things would devolve to the state they are in in TLOU 1 and 2?

Do yourself a favor and get off the internet, interact with real people. You will see how deluded this statement of yours Is when you do.
 

EDMIX

Member
I do. I know people who work in retail and they say people have lost their minds since the pandemic.

Yup. If people will act this crazy from the pandemic, they would be complete savages in The Last Of Us type universe anyone thinking otherwise...they'd need to have some Mickey Mouse mindset or something lol
 

RJMacready73

Gold Member
Like every other TLOU2 thread I have to chime in, the 2nd one was an absolute masterpiece of a sequel, the fact that they where able to follow such a classic with another timeless classic really does show how far out ahead of the game these guys are.

On another note utterly ragin they're releasing the remake for full price as I was looking to do a full replay of both games but now I'll wait till a sale as I ain't paying full price again for the 1st one on principal no matter how I feel about the game
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Yup. If people will act this crazy from the pandemic, they would be complete savages in The Last Of Us type universe anyone thinking otherwise...they'd need to have some Mickey Mouse mindset or something lol
I mean, violent crime/murders are up 40-100+% in most major cities. If you still live in more rural areas or places with tougher on crime DAs, you are fine, but a lot of them popular cities are insane at the moment.

I can only imagine a full blown post-apoc lawless world with humans. Just like TWD has shown, the humans were scarier than the walkers.
 
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Pelta88

Member
You know what we need. A day 1

"A did you buy TLOU for $70 / £64 / €74"

Thread for posterity. It'll be interesting to contrast the online discussion with actual pic verified purchases.
 

Ellery

Member
Its really quite simple. Compare Drakengard or NieR, as a quick example, to TLOU2. The difference cannot be more painfully obvious.

I am sorry to say, but I haven't played those games so it is neither quite simple nor painfully obvious for me how all of that relates to it.
 
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