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The PS5 worked fine with the slowest compatible SSD we could find

Topher

Gold Member
According to Mike those slow SSDs are not matching the internal drive. So I wouldn't say they are performing equivalent to it. I'm pretty sure the recommending specs are for the drives that will.

Also the nice thing about the PS5s I/O complex is that it applies to any NVME that you put into the system. The I/O structure goes beyond just the drive.

This is a key point. Fitzgerald explicitly points to the I/O path and hardware decompression being used by Ratchet and Clank. Again, this is why Nvidia is developing RTX IO.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/rtx-io-gpu-accelerated-storage-technology/
 

DonF

Member
There has to be cached data (the "other" that's reserved in the internal drive) that makes up for the difference. Or else, it just doesn't make sense.
Or current games just don't use the full stack.
 
This is a key point. Fitzgerald explicitly points to the I/O path and hardware decompression being used by Ratchet and Clank. Again, this is why Nvidia is developing RTX IO.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/rtx-io-gpu-accelerated-storage-technology/

In a way the PS5s I/O complex is like Nvidia's RTX I/O. I know that Sony has a powerful decompressor that's needed to handle Kraken without impacting the CPU. Then there are other hardware features that can have a direct impact on any NVME that you put into the system.

It's all pretty fascinating in my opinion.
 

JaksGhost

Member
I already see some idiots here that are going to go out and get lower spec’ed SSDs just to bitch up a storm later when problems arise. Tom also needs to stop for a second because they are only testing on a single PS5 game, the one game where the developer is saying the custom I/O pulls the rest of the grunt work.
 
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I already see some idiots here that are going to go out and get lower spec’ed SSDs just to bitch up a storm later when problems arise. Tom also needs to stop for a second because they are only testing on a single PS5 game, the one game where the developer is saying the custom I/O pulls the rest of the grunt work.

That same developer tested slower drives with the game and did find some differences. If the Verge hasn't found any it probably means they didn't test it enough or are not measuring the results correctly.

I would assume the actual developer would know more about how slower drives impact the game than the verge does.
 

omegasc

Member
I’d guess not even R&C uses the full potential of the I/O.

They started building the game before the final specs were finalized, so it would be kinda wierd if they knew exactly how to max it out.
there are a lot to consider. Even the PS5 FW. I remember the loading times were getting even faster between presentations of R&C and the released game is faster as well.
As usual, we will see things improving over time.
 
I already see some idiots here that are going to go out and get lower spec’ed SSDs just to bitch up a storm later when problems arise. Tom also needs to stop for a second because they are only testing on a single PS5 game, the one game where the developer is saying the custom I/O pulls the rest of the grunt work.
It depends on what Sony certifies. If they certify a 3900 MB/s SSD, the buyers of that SSD should expect mostly flawless performance.
 

Mr Moose

Member
He was talking about "stress" points not simple loading? If you load a scene on Rift Apart and it's 1 second then a 15% increase at worse is hardly going to be noticeable.

There's parts in the game where you hop from one "world" to another, while grinding a rail. If things aren't loaded quickly enough it will be shite.
 

Topher

Gold Member
He was talking about "stress" points not simple loading? If you load a scene on Rift Apart and it's 1 second then a 15% increase at worse is hardly going to be noticeable.

That very well may be the case. But as Fitzgerald said, the IO and decompression in the overall design has to do its job as well. So this 3900 MB/s SSD is still pushing a lot more than than when compressed/decompressed.
It depends on what Sony certifies. If they certify a 3900 MB/s SSD, the buyers of that SSD should expect mostly flawless performance.

I expect they are a bit more liberal in what is allowed to be used during a beta than we will see in the final result. This drive may work now and not work at all when the firmware goes live to everyone. Best everyone watch for the list of compatible drives.
 
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True, but they also tested the dimension jumping parts of the game and saw no difference.

But according to Mike from his testing there are differences. I guess the only thing that this proves is that if you go below the recommended specs you can expect inferior performance compared to the soldered drive.

Not that this peformance hit will happen 100% of the time but when the data needs go beyond the slower drives capabilities it won't perform as well as the soldered drive.
 

buenoblue

Member
Ratchet and miles are 14 second and 19 second loadtimes? When I played it was like 1 second loading.

Are they testing boot from scratch?
 

Evilms

Banned
So with this new information, what's the cheapest SSD we can use?
-Seagate FireCuda 530 : $255 for 1TB
-Western Digital Black SN850 : $250 for 1TB
-Gigabyte Aorus NVMe Gen 4 7000S : $199 for 1TB
-Patriot Viper VP4300 : $225 for 1TB
-Samsung 980 Pro : $199 for 1TB
-Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus : $199 for 1TB
-Corsair MP600 Pro : $199 for 1TB
-Inland Performance Plus : $189 for 1TB
-A-Data S70 Gammix : $159 for 1TB
-MSI Spatium M480 : $250 for 1TB
-Crucial P5 Plus : 180$ for 1TB
-A-Data Gammix S50 Lite : 130$ for 1TB
 
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-Seagate FireCuda 530 : $255 for 1TB
-Western Digital Black SN850 : $250 for 1TB
-Gigabyte Aorus NVMe Gen 4 7000S : $199 for 1TB
-Patriot Viper VP4300 : $225 for 1TB
-Samsung 980 Pro : $199 for 1TB
-Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus : $199 for 1TB
-Corsair MP600 Pro : $199 for 1TB
-Inland Performance Plus : $189 for 1TB
-A-Data S70 Gammix : $159 for 1TB
-MSI Spatium M480 : $250 for 1TB
-Crucial P5 Plus : 180$ for 1TB
-A-Data Gammix S50 Lite : 130$ for 1TB

A NVME compatibility thread would be awesome.
 

JaksGhost

Member
I know Cerny said that, but to me it looks like Sony is just now figuring out the base recommended speed. Otherwise they wouldn't even test these slower SSDs.
That was a single developer from Insomniac and not Sony. Sony also put the recommended specs on the page about the upgrade process. That’s telling you right there what to follow. If any problems arise from going against that that is on you. All you’re doing is assuming and those assumptions will just turn into “I’m a victim of Sony” even though you created the issue.
 
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That was a single developer from Insomniac and not Sony. Sony also put the recommended specs on the page about the upgrade process. That’s telling you right there what to follow. If any problems arise from going against that that is on you. All you’re doing is assuming and those assumptions will just turn into “I’m a victim of Sony” even though you created the issue.
With test I mean the beta test Sony is doing right now.
 

Allandor

Member
So the ssd speed is obviously not the bottneneck usually - more probably the decompression
Not really the decompression. It is more the actual computer stuff the CPU and GPU have to do with the data. Compression and IO are no longer bottlenecks this gen. But yes you might always find an edge case where this can make a difference. But SSD speed should just make a minor difference. Especially if you look at random read speeds that are way lower and in those cases faster and slower SSDs are very near together.
 
I know Cerny said that, but to me it looks like Sony is just now figuring out the base recommended speed. Otherwise they wouldn't even test these slower SSDs.

The recommended is of you want the same performance as the soldered drive. Anything less and you can expect performance to be worse at times.

Some drives might be to slow to work in the PS5. And I'm sure the console won't let you try to use them for playing games.

Now I love to see someone plug in a really slow Gen3 drive and benchmark it's peformance. Those results would he quite interesting to see.
 
The list will surely grow in the coming weeks.
It's better to wait a bit to group and reference all the compatible ssd it will be more practical and maybe by then Sony will have released the official firmware for the public.

Well I hope it supports a wide variety of drives because they would be great for consumers.
 
So, now that we know that the SSD is not a constrain, how long before R&C is available on the PC?
Not Happening No Way GIF
 

longdi

Banned
According to Mike those slow SSDs are not matching the internal drive. So I wouldn't say they are performing equivalent to it. I'm pretty sure the recommending specs are for the drives that will.

Also the nice thing about the PS5s I/O complex is that it applies to any NVME that you put into the system. The I/O structure goes beyond just the drive.

even as we shift focus to this 'IO' complex, it's getting clearer that this whole part of the system don't appear to influence the quality and performance of game designs, outside of a few seconds more loading.

Not long ago, some were making a huge hype train about the super I/O will make UE5 stream dozens of GB/s of superior assets and what not.

i won't be surprised to see a RC port for PC next year and it runs even better on high end PC using direct storage 🤷‍♀️
 

martino

Member
this is a great news and people playing third party games on ps5 will be able to store them there for cheap.
 

JaksGhost

Member
even as we shift focus to this 'IO' complex, it's getting clearer that this whole part of the system don't appear to influence the quality and performance of game designs, outside of a few seconds more loading.

Not long ago, some were making a huge hype train about the super I/O will make UE5 stream dozens of GB/s of superior assets and what not.

i won't be surprised to see a RC port for PC next year and it runs even better on high end PC using direct storage 🤷‍♀️
This is all based off of one game. One game.
 
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