Support NeoGAF

[Heisenberg007]

"We're also diversifying now. And we have stood up 12 projects in total in the live ops multiplayer space." -- Hermen Hulst.

This is Sony's first serious heads-first dive into multiplayer and live-service games, with up to 12 games in development. Some of these games will be revealed next Wednesday. I wanted to take this team and speculate on how Sony will ensure that these games are diverse enough and that not all of them end up looking like a generic first-person shooters.

How do you want these live-service games to differ from each other?

Here are 12 games in development that we know about. There must be more unannounced:

• The Last of Us Online
• Horizon Multiplayer
• Twisted Metal
• Firewalk's new IP
• Insomniac's new IP
• London Studio's sci-fi fantasy game
• Haven Studios
• Deviation Games (in trouble and may not release)
• Arrowheads's Helldivers 2
• Firewall Ultra
• Project Ooze (reportedly by People Can Fly)
• Bungie's Matter

Some of these games are obviously very different from each other (TLOU/Horizon), but others may end up looking very similar, e.g., Project Ooze and Helldivers. Similarly, Firewalk's, Bungie's, and Deviation's.

Here is my wish for how some of these games turn out and set them apart from their peers - just to show what I mean.

• TLOU Online -- A survival, base-building, open-world game, much like GTA online with obviously very different tone and gameplay mechanics.
• Horizon Multiplayer -- Similar to Monster Hunter World and Rise with a hub. You hunt machines, craft better gear, and your main hub.
• Twisted Metal -- Mad Max online.
• Firewalk's IP -- I hope it's a boots-on-ground multiplayer game, but I think it will be sci-fi. Old-school Call of Duty.
• Arrowhead -- I hope it turns out to be a spiritual successor of Titanfall 2. It had similar types of machines. And in the 3rd person POV, those machines may end up looking very similar to Titans.
• I hope Sony also makes at least one of these games like The Division 2. A Division type game with PlayStation Studios quality can be amazing.

Anyway, the main question:

HOW DO YOU want these live-service games to differ from each other?

 

[lh032]

I thought you are talking about diversity in Playstation 1st party games.

 

[Heisenberg007]

P.S. If you don't like Sony's live-service initiative, please simply ignore this thread.

 

[ElCasual]

P.S. If you don't like Sony's live-service initiative, please simply ignore this thread.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Insomniac is making a live service game?

 

[Heisenberg007]

Insomniac is making a live service game?

Their 3rd team is working on a multiplayer game. New IP.

Spider-Man 2, Wolverine, New MP IP.

 

[Flutta]

 

[near]

I'm interested to know what Haven Studios is doing, because whatever it is, Sony has ridiculous confidence in it to buy the studio.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I'm interested to know what Haven Studios is doing, because whatever it is, Sony has ridiculous confidence in it to buy the studio.

Other than the game, they also bought the studio for (1) their innovative use of Cloud in game development, and (2) their efficiency and workflow processes that enabled them to get ahead of their milestone deadlines, and that, too, during COVID.

 

[hemo memo]

P.S. If you don't like Sony's live-service initiative, please simply ignore this thread.

Live service? Thread ignored.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

I already dropped Rainbow Six Siege. Ill be up to drop Apex. I hope one of these hits like Rocket League.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I honestly don't know if I care yet.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I already dropped Rainbow Six Siege. Ill be up to drop Apex. I hope one of these hits like Rocket League.

Rocket League is cocaine. My most played game, nearly 600 hours now.

 

[tmlDan]

Live service? Thread ignored.

bye boomer

 

[GHG]

P.S. If you don't like Sony's live-service initiative, please simply ignore this thread.

My stance remains the same - do less of this crap. As little as possible in fact.

 

[near]

My stance remains the same - do less of this crap. As little as possible in fact.

Why? Gamers love GaaS, for a multitude of reasons. It's a cash cow for developers. So why do you think they should stop?

 

[Pelta88]

Monster Hunter / hunting games are pretty incredible and obviously sell well. But I think what's most important to PS is the community that they sustain. MHW online is still as vibrant and as populated as it was when it launched on PS. That kinda of sustainability is like cocaine to these publishers.

I'm two trophies away from the Wild Hearts platinum. I could trigger them at any time, I just don't want to be done with the game, officially.

HZD's take on MHW/Hunting genre is going to be incredible. The diverse and pretty deep lore that's already been established... The mechanics are largely already in place as well as the loot system. Horizon seems primed and ready to make a significant entry into that genre. And personally, I can't wait!

 

[hemo memo]

My stance remains the same - do less of this crap. As little as possible in fact.

Don’t do it at all. This predatory addiction focused design should be avoided especially from a platform holder.

 

[hemo memo]

Why? Gamers love GaaS, for a multitude of reasons. It's a cash cow for developers. So why do you think they should stop?

Love GaaS or addicted to it? Because that’s the whole point of that design. More input from phycologists than developers in that fucked up design.

 

[Kacho]

They are certainly casting a wide net with this initiative, I’m just not convinced their core audience will care.

They’ve essentially cultivated an audience over the past decade by delivering cinematic single player games, and I don’t think live service games resonate with that audience in general.

So if their goal is to capture people outside of the audience they already cultivated, that means they are going after people who are likely already invested in other live service games.

There’s also the potential issue of joining the live service party way too late. A lot of the newer live service games are failing to find an audience or being outright rejected. Perhaps I’m being too narrow minded and cynical, but I don’t see this working out for them the way they want it to.

 

[GHG]

Why? Gamers love GaaS, for a multitude of reasons. It's a cash cow for developers. So why do you think they should stop?

The games are designed around extracting as much money from consumers as possible, they use every psychological trick in the book and many of the biggest GAAS games have psychologists working/consulting as part of the team.

Everything about these types of games is cynical.

 

[SlimySnake]

• The Last of Us Online - Should be good.
• Horizon Multiplayer - Leaks are bad. Fortnite clones will flop
• Twisted Metal - Car Combat games in a GaaS setting will flop just like destruction all stars.
• Firewalk's new IP - Competing against CoD? good luck.
• Insomniac's new IP - Probably some kind of suicide squad like superhero marvel game. Good luck.
• London Studio's sci-fi fantasy game - Competing with Destiny, good luck.
• Haven Studios - Too early to tell.
• Deviation Games (in trouble and may not release) - Wont release
• Arrowheads's Helldivers 2 - Will be Sonys outriders. forgotten in a week
• Bungie's Matter - The only game that will reach the success Sony is expecting from all of these games.

I think this whole focus is a big giant misreading of the market. Every gaas PvE game from division 2 to anthem to avengers has flopped. People are over these games. Destiny is the only successful one and even destiny is basically being played by a very small dedicated group of people. You are better off going after the tens of millions of people who bought 10 million plus copies of Zelda, GOW, Hogwarts, Elden Rings in a matter of weeks. That's $700 to a billion dollars per game in weeks.

Even games like RE4 sell 4 million in literally days. Star wars in two days became the 4th best selling game of the year. Starfield will come out and put up 5 million minimum in the first three days. If it wasnt on gamepass, it would probably do Zelda and GOW numbers. Hell, it still might.

Mobile game developers say that 1% or 0.1% of their users are whales who account for 95% of the revenue. Ok, why are we making games for that 1% of gamers who they will trick into spending thousands a year to get a steady stream of revenue when 99% of the gamers have shown that they want traditional single player experiences. WRPGs, JRPGs, Action adventure games, open world games. etc. Just bizarre focus on this PvE stuff.

What they shouldve done was focus on one to two games. Do what Activision does with CoD. single player campaign, coop modes, and PvP all in one $70 package. no PvE nonsense. No loot trash. No shooting at healthbars for 10 minutes. You go and shoot people. Play a michael bay campaign for 6 hours and maybe have a zombie mode or some other coop spec op mode. Thats it. Maybe build a battle royale mode for it if there is enough interest in the game. it has worked for Activision for almost 2 decades now. Copy that if you must.

TLOU2 sold 4 milllion in 3 days. 9 million in 2 years. Horizon FW sold 8 million in a year. Do we really think a MP only game for a single player franchise will do even half of these numbers? How much do they expect to get from Twisted metal and helldivers? What are we doing here?

 

[kyoji]

Sony can be very strange at times, they had one of the great forefather mmorpgs that they created in house in everquest, they had a social mmo hit in playstation home, they had another mmo which had some smaller scale success in DC universe, and yet they threw it all away for reasons? And now they want to focus on this multiplayer front again? Im fine with it but they have to be serious about it and have patience. Alot of times they are ahead of what the market is doing but they cut projects short.

On a side note with their interest in fighting games and owning the worlds biggest fighting game stage in EVO, you would think they would invest in an exclusive fighting game or buy a talented fighting game dev ala a capcom or arc system works, netherealm studios (should have Been obvious) when they were digesting crunchyroll and other things at&t were pawning off… especially since fighting games could fall into live service category very easily.

 

[Lupin25]

I’m most interested in Factions 2, Firesprite’s Twisted Metal and Bungie’s Matter:

They have a good foundation for successful live-service games.

I can see Naughty Dog taking us down an “episodic”, robust, cinematic adventure with different characters. Visuals on par with TLOU2 & the PvP/Factions II mode will maintain the core experience of the first Factions, but combat/gameplay will be everything TLOU2 was, and hopefully have new additions.

Not much is known about some of these newer studios, so it’s hard to know what realistic expectations to have for them. (Haven, Firewalk, Deviation, Arrowheard, etc.)

If half of them are TPS/FPS, I just hope they bring something new to the table outside of pretty graphics, a grapple hook, and decent gunplay
(For example, games like The Finals/Arc Raiders look ambitious).

I’m also not sure how well Horizon will translate to online/multiplayer. There’s deeper elements to Monster Hunter’s combat/gameplay loop that makes it addicting (cooking/gear/weapon distinction)

The challenge/fun of Horizon was discovering locations, going on a journey, and shooting down machines on your own - With others, in a more simplified setting, will it be too easy or repetitive?

 

[near]

Love GaaS or addicted to it? Because that’s the whole point of that design. More input from phycologists than developers in that fucked up design.

The games are designed around extracting as much money from consumers as possible, they use every psychological trick in the book and many of the biggest GAAS games have psychologists working/consulting as part of the team.

Everything about these types of games is cynical.

I've dabbled in many games that have used the model, there are many negative connotations associated with it by more traditional gamers. But the model itself offers plenty of advantages to users too. Games that often benefit the most from it are competitive games, or multiplayer games, and they're given far more life through the model, in terms of longevity. Without such a model in place, games like Dota 2, Valorant, Apex legends wouldn't have the legs they do (see Titanfall 2). Destiny 2 was essentially reborn after it went F2P. Like it or not, these are the sort of games that retain the most players and hold the highest concurrent players.

The argument that most will always use against it is the one about being psychologically manipulated, exploited etc etc. That's just capitalism for you. Doesn't mean it's right, but you're always being sold on something.

HOW DO YOU want these live-service games to differ from each other?

As long as there are a variety of genres on offer, and they provide real incentives to support them, not just generic battle passes and skins, I will try them. Destiny 2 offers narrative driven expansion packs, I like that sort of idea.

 

[StealthGoblin]

• The Last of Us Online - Should be good.
• Horizon Multiplayer - Leaks are bad. Fortnite clones will flop
• Twisted Metal - Car Combat games in a GaaS setting will flop just like destruction all stars.
• Firewalk's new IP - Competing against CoD? good luck.
• Insomniac's new IP - Probably some kind of suicide squad like superhero marvel game. Good luck.
• London Studio's sci-fi fantasy game - Competing with Destiny, good luck.
• Haven Studios - Too early to tell.
• Deviation Games (in trouble and may not release) - Wont release
• Arrowheads's Helldivers 2 - Will be Sonys outriders. forgotten in a week
• Bungie's Matter - The only game that will reach the success Sony is expecting from all of these games.

I think this whole focus is a big giant misreading of the market. Every gaas PvE game from division 2 to anthem to avengers has flopped. People are over these games. Destiny is the only successful one and even destiny is basically being played by a very small dedicated group of people. You are better off going after the tens of millions of people who bought 10 million plus copies of Zelda, GOW, Hogwarts, Elden Rings in a matter of weeks. That's $700 to a billion dollars per game in weeks.

Even games like RE4 sell 4 million in literally days. Star wars in two days became the 4th best selling game of the year. Starfield will come out and put up 5 million minimum in the first three days. If it wasnt on gamepass, it would probably do Zelda and GOW numbers. Hell, it still might.

Mobile game developers say that 1% or 0.1% of their users are whales who account for 95% of the revenue. Ok, why are we making games for that 1% of gamers who they will trick into spending thousands a year to get a steady stream of revenue when 99% of the gamers have shown that they want traditional single player experiences. WRPGs, JRPGs, Action adventure games, open world games. etc. Just bizarre focus on this PvE stuff.

What they shouldve done was focus on one to two games. Do what Activision does with CoD. single player campaign, coop modes, and PvP all in one $70 package. no PvE nonsense. No loot trash. No shooting at healthbars for 10 minutes. You go and shoot people. Play a michael bay campaign for 6 hours and maybe have a zombie mode or some other coop spec op mode. Thats it. Maybe build a battle royale mode for it if there is enough interest in the game. it has worked for Activision for almost 2 decades now. Copy that if you must.

TLOU2 sold 4 milllion in 3 days. 9 million in 2 years. Horizon FW sold 8 million in a year. Do we really think a MP only game for a single player franchise will do even half of these numbers? How much do they expect to get from Twisted metal and helldivers? What are we doing here?

The difference these games will have is that it is Sony making them. They’ll get the time, space, marketing and resources thrown at them. Most will fail, but that’s generally the idea unless Sony want long term low key communities for all.

I’m not an MP guy myself, but I’d play the hell out of a Horizon multiplayer game, I’d definitely give TLOU a go.

 

[adamsapple]

Why? Gamers love GaaS

Many of them are even full of it.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Monster Hunter / hunting games are pretty incredible and obviously sell well. But I think what's most important to PS is the community that they sustain. MHW online is still as vibrant and as populated as it was when it launched on PS. That kinda of sustainability is like cocaine to these publishers.

I'm two trophies away from the Wild Hearts platinum. I could trigger them at any time, I just don't want to be done with the game, officially.

HZD's take on MHW/Hunting genre is going to be incredible. The diverse and pretty deep lore that's already been established... The mechanics are largely already in place as well as the loot system. Horizon seems primed and ready to make a significant entry into that genre. And personally, I can't wait!

I agree. My only gripe is the art style they chose. I wish they'd gone for the HFW's realistic look, but I understand they want to make it like Genshin Impact (PC, Console, Mobile) so a stylized game makes that possible and offers longevity.

Apart from that, Horizon's gameplay is its best thing. It's unique and fun all the time. A multiplayer game that is all in on gameplay can be extremely popular and engaging.

 

[Spyxos]

Last of us multiplayer was very good, so I hope the sequel will be good too. And Twisted Metal would also be interesting, but this time with good controls, please. The rest doesn't interest me that much.

 

[kruis]

This is Sony's first serious heads-first dive into multiplayer and live-service games, with up to 12 games in development. Some of these games will be revealed next Wednesday. I wanted to take this team and speculate on how Sony will ensure that these games are diverse enough and that not all of them end up looking like a generic first-person shooters.

HOW DO YOU want these live-service games to differ from each other?

I want every single one of them to crash and burn more violently than the GAAS game before it.

 

[Slothbeing1209]

I only care about Faction 2