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The Tomb Raider Reboot trilogy sold 38 million copies in total, with the franchise totaling 88 million copies sold.

Zeroing

Banned
They bought this IP to get a return, you better believe they are doing some open world shit in those games lol especially Deus Ex
Yep, the last tomb raider already had parts that felt open world. To be fair the latest trilogy it was obvious they took everything they like from other games and put it there.

I can already see Lara on a Motorcycle exploring the world… killing zombies! Joking!
 

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Tomb Raider alone is worth $1B to me. What happened is shocking. Microsoft throwing $100M for 1 year exclusivity shows that it's worth a lot for Microsoft, at least. If there are massive debts included then I can understand.
 
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DukeNukem00

Banned
They bought this IP to get a return, you better believe they are doing some open world shit in those games lol especially Deus Ex


Why do you say "especially" Deus Ex ? It wouldnt work with the franchise. You need very curated and crafted spaces for the game to work and you cant have that detail in an open world, it would take a million years and all the money in the world
 

kuncol02

Member
Why do you say "especially" Deus Ex ? It wouldnt work with the franchise. You need very curated and crafted spaces for the game to work and you cant have that detail in an open world, it would take a million years and all the money in the world
You can have curated spaces in open world game. New Prey is best example of that. Not every open world game need to be clone of Assassin's Creed or GTA.
 

Filben

Member
How the hell did Square made it seem like the franchise was always underperforming?
I remember when 2013 released they were not totally satisfied despite the game selling really well und scoring high points on reviews. I always thought their expectations where either out of touch or they mismanaged the budget.
 

EDMIX

Member
Why do you say "especially" Deus Ex ? It wouldnt work with the franchise. You need very curated and crafted spaces for the game to work and you cant have that detail in an open world, it would take a million years and all the money in the world

oh boy, boy they got you good lol

Sir....Cyberpunk 2077, Watchdogs series...they have enough info to very much support some open world game for that IP. Wouldn't work? lol the fuck? Nothing in that IP btw argues they can't make it open world.

Using this logic no Watchdogs game should have existed if such a thing couldn't be done or something.

You need very curated and crafted spaces for the game to work and you cant have that detail in an open world,
1. No, you don't need shit like that and that company might not even give a fuck.
2. Where you read you can't have a detailed open world is beyond me.

Open world or not has not really supported some idea of detail vs no detail as its not like last gen games look better then current gen games if the fucking game was linear or something lol Red Dead Redemption 2 is an open world game and it graphically shits on 99% of AAA games that came out last gen lol

So you can have a detailed open world game, the company may not give a shit about that btw and still make it open world and it wouldn't even shock me if that game went on to move record units for the IP. We've seen several IP where they've put it open world or bigger or some shit and they've broke a fuck ton of records. BoTW, God Of War, Elden Ring. I'm not saying make all games this way, I'm not saying open world you can have 100% the exact type of detail, I'm not saying I'm in favor of some radical change....I'm saying a fucking number supports that this popularity on open world exist and I'm doubtful that this group is ignoring that concept.

They just watched Cyberpunk 2077 release like a fucking slide show, massive bugs, lawsuits and damage control annnnnnnnnd 18 million units sold. Imagine what they can do with Deus Ex, a larger team and actually making those features exist with a established IP? If someone isn't thinking that at this company, they are smoking crack lol The door is wide open for that open world sci fi concept and it merely needs the name Deus Ex and it can just be in the universe of it and you'd see it move massive units. So just cause Deus Ex exist as a game thats not open world, doesn't mean it can't be made to be open world. We already got an answer to if anyone wants a Deus Ex thats just a linear type game btw....
 

Godot25

Member
So every of those games sold 10+ million copies and Square is somehow not happy?
We knew where problem was then...
 

DukeNukem00

Banned
oh boy, boy they got you good lol

Sir....Cyberpunk 2077, Watchdogs series...they have enough info to very much support some open world game for that IP. Wouldn't work? lol the fuck? Nothing in that IP btw argues they can't make it open world.

Using this logic no Watchdogs game should have existed if such a thing couldn't be done or something.


1. No, you don't need shit like that and that company might not even give a fuck.
2. Where you read you can't have a detailed open world is beyond me.

Open world or not has not really supported some idea of detail vs no detail as its not like last gen games look better then current gen games if the fucking game was linear or something lol Red Dead Redemption 2 is an open world game and it graphically shits on 99% of AAA games that came out last gen lol

So you can have a detailed open world game, the company may not give a shit about that btw and still make it open world and it wouldn't even shock me if that game went on to move record units for the IP. We've seen several IP where they've put it open world or bigger or some shit and they've broke a fuck ton of records. BoTW, God Of War, Elden Ring. I'm not saying make all games this way, I'm not saying open world you can have 100% the exact type of detail, I'm not saying I'm in favor of some radical change....I'm saying a fucking number supports that this popularity on open world exist and I'm doubtful that this group is ignoring that concept.

They just watched Cyberpunk 2077 release like a fucking slide show, massive bugs, lawsuits and damage control annnnnnnnnd 18 million units sold. Imagine what they can do with Deus Ex, a larger team and actually making those features exist with a established IP? If someone isn't thinking that at this company, they are smoking crack lol The door is wide open for that open world sci fi concept and it merely needs the name Deus Ex and it can just be in the universe of it and you'd see it move massive units. So just cause Deus Ex exist as a game thats not open world, doesn't mean it can't be made to be open world. We already got an answer to if anyone wants a Deus Ex thats just a linear type game btw....


Judging by the amount of horeshit you typed in this post 3 things are aparent:

1. You havent played Deus Ex 1
2. You have no ideea what Deus Ex is
3. You dont really have much clue about other games. Giving examples of Cyberpunk or Watch Dogs.
 

EDMIX

Member
Judging by the amount of horeshit you typed in this post 3 things are aparent:

1. You havent played Deus Ex 1
2. You have no ideea what Deus Ex is
3. You dont really have much clue about other games. Giving examples of Cyberpunk or Watch Dogs.

smh.

You are just too triggered to understand what is being stated here man. I love the Deus Ex series and played all of the games. This is one of the prime examples of why some people just can't mix business with personal shit. Leave your emotions at the door regarding this. Read and understand what is being stated sir....


I'm not saying make all games this way, I'm not saying open world you can have 100% the exact type of detail, I'm not saying I'm in favor of some radical change....I'm saying a fucking number supports that this popularity on open world exist and I'm doubtful that this group is ignoring that concept.

Nothing to do with needing to fucking play it to tell if such a thing could or would work, simply that a popular concept with open world exist, a company just bought the IP and are looking for a return, they will go with what the trend is and we've already seen a flop with the last title using its old formula. I'm not even saying I WANT THAT to happen with Deus Ex, I'm saying a company buying the IP would have no issue making it open world, you don't need to like the examples I gave, shit if you even fucking read this board, I don't even like Cyberpunk 2077...yet why the fuck do you think I'm using it as an example?

18 million units sold.

Regardless if I hate the game or you hate it or anything like that, that is more units moved then the last Deus Ex and Embracer is looking to make a return, an easy guess would be that they would make it a open world title to bring in those consumers who like those concepts. Stop taking it so personal and understand whats being stated first man, what you or I think should happen to that IP is irrelevant to the company that just bought it. They have no ode to repeat the same concept that just flopped, yet ignore open world success stories like Elden Ring, BoTW, GTA and Cyberpunk 2077. They are looking for a return, open world makes sense to get that return. Shit would be like getting mad at me buying a McDonalds franchise crying and shit cause you personally don't eat McDonalds, be like

1. Clearly you haven't eaten at Arby's
2. You haven't a clue about da Arby's (bet he didn't even eat da roast beefz)
3. You don't have a clue about curly fries, giving examples like BigMacz and shitz

lol
 

Kusarigama

Member
SE's portfolio without Tomb Raider, Deus Ex, Thief and Legacy of Kain seems pretty weak to me. No to forget to mention Hitman also went independent.
 

NahaNago

Member
And 90% of those sales were through the bargain bin.
I'm pretty sure got all of my tomb raider games through a humble bundle type deal.

I still think they simply mismanaged tomb raider. They could have created an anime, cartoons, for the pop culture crowd. Expanded the characters so that they could have had some spinoffs. I wasn't a fan of the recent tomb raider movie but I did love the old ones.
 

Hezekiah

Banned
I'm pretty sure that SE was just breaking even with these games. It wasn't worth the overhead.

If they could have sold it for more, they would have. Tomb Raider isn't worth what many of you believed.

Also, think for how many years these Tomb Raider games have been selling for a few bucks. All those count as sales.
Yeah I think we have to say that the Tomb Raider franchise isn't as big as it was once was. Also, a lot of kids gaming now would have never played the originals and it won't have the same relevance to them.

They're big budget games, and the competition isn't going to go away when the next game releases - it's just a matter of time before Sony brings back Uncharted for another entry (whether it's developed by Naughty Dog or not), plus Machine Game have Indiana Jones in development.

The IP is worth more than Hitman and Deus Ex but it's not that valuable as you say.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
I loved the last outings of Tomb Raider, Hopefully the new owners will do justice to this classic franchise. Of all the assets S-E sold, this is the one I care about the most.

That's all we can hope for. A less action oriented return to the roots, with beautiful graphics on top would get my vote.
 

yurinka

Member
Square folks were drunk if not happy with these numbers, it must be top 10 or top 20 best selling series in gaming history.

Yeah I think we have to say that the Tomb Raider franchise isn't as big as it was once was.
Wrong. The last trilogy sold 38 of the 88 millions sold by the IP and had good reviews.

This recent trilogy sold almost half of the copies of the whole series, which has around 20 games.

The last trilogy averages over a dozen million copies sold, which only a few series achieve. The whole series sold 88 millions, something achieved by maybe a around a dozen of series or two. The series also has some (successful) movies.
 
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Hezekiah

Banned
Square folks were drunk if not happy with these numbers, it must be top 10 or top 20 best selling series in gaming history.


Wrong. The last trilogy sold 38 of the 88 millions sold by the IP.

This recent trilogy sold almost half of the copies of the whole series, which has around 20 games.
But the console games market is significantly bigger now than it was in the PS1 days for example.

And as people have said, the games were discounted quickly.
Hitman isn't part of this deal is it? I thought ioi had the rights to that?
I read somewhere that it was included, but maybe that's wrong.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
That’s a lot for the series, considering it’s been running for 26 years and it was really at the most successful with the first three games, back in the 90s.


"Insufferable" is the perfect word to describe neo-Lara.


I would love a Tomb Raider with the shooting and platforming of the new ones, with puzzles and exploration from the old games, and the attitude of the classic Lara. The whiny (and, as you say, insufferable) shit really needs to go.
To think, they could have kept everything about the classic character and just slide down the boob slider a notch or two. Literally the only problem the modern public could have with old Lara was those huge knockers. No need to turn her into this whiny little girl that for some reason goes full Rambo at pre-established times.



These numbers mean a lot less than they used to I feel.

Games are sold for longer periods (essentially in perpetuity) versus the pre digital age where you'd maybe have an initial launch print plus a couple "gold/ platinum/classic/goty etc" re-releases. Then you also have the fact that games these days reach crater bottom prices due to digital to the point they are almost being handed out.

When a game reaches 10 million sold I feel like it'd be good to at least have some stats that place it into context e.g. How many were sold within the first 3 months of release, and then the first year too.
On the other end of the spectrum, you have Nintendo’s first party games selling millions and basically never going below 50% street price for years. Context is useful when counting copies, but in the end, a sale is a sale.
 

yurinka

Member
But the console games market is significantly bigger now than it was in the PS1 days for example.

And as people have said, the games were discounted quickly.

I read somewhere that it was included, but maybe that's wrong.
Tomb Raider series is one one the top 10 or top 20 best selling series, both now and back in the PS1 days.

It's one of the most important series in the industry and its main character even became a pop culture icon that went beyond gaming.

Regarding the discounts, 99% of the other games also get discounted and don't sell this. And a game sold at a discount doesn't make it less popular. It's another player who played it and provided revenue for this or maybe future games in the series.

Hitman isn't part of this deal is it? I thought ioi had the rights to that?
IOI -who branched off while ago- has them.

SE's portfolio without Tomb Raider, Deus Ex, Thief and Legacy of Kain seems pretty weak to me. No to forget to mention Hitman also went independent.
Tomb Raider is the only one close in recent sales to SIE blockbusters like TLOU, GoW, Horizon, Uncharted, GT, GoT, Spider-Man or Destiny.

And well, Embracer will want to monetize these IPs so pretty likely their new games will be multiplatform and their old games will be in PS+. Being bought by other 3rd party doesn't mean PlayStation lost these IPs.
 
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Hezekiah

Banned
Tomb Raider series is one one the top 10 or top 20 best selling series, both now and back in the PS1 days.

It's one of the most important series in the industry and its main character even became a pop culture icon that went beyond gaming.

Regarding the discounts, 99% of the other games also get discounted and don't sell this.
I think if this was true yesterday's sale would have been for a higher price.

Square's western division released three Tomb Raider games within six years, but by all accounts profits weren't too hot, and they were happy to sell the IP.
 
Wrong. The last trilogy sold 38 of the 88 millions sold by the IP.

This recent trilogy sold almost half of the copies of the whole series, which has around 20 games.
But, they cost how much more to make? SE was barely breaking even.

Also, the old ones weren't available to buy for $2, which is literally how much the cost on PSN during sales (which happen a lot).
 

CartesianMan

Neo Member
What I want is a quality Tomb Raider and Deus Ex games aaand Legacy of Kain/ Soul Reaver reboot/remake/return.
What I know for the new Tomb Raider games is that they want to merge the old games with the new one, whatever that mean.
I just want is high production value, quality and game that is true to Tomb Raider DNA.
It's important to keep the team and the studios after the sell.
 

yurinka

Member
I think if this was true yesterday's sale would have been for a higher price.

Square's western division released three Tomb Raider games within six years, but by all accounts profits weren't too hot, and they were happy to sell the IP.
But, they cost how much more to make? SE was barely breaking even.

What I said it's a fact. If you look at what series sold over 88 million there are only maybe a dozen or two.

As an example, in Capcom MH sold 78M, SF 47M, DMC 25M and Mega Man 37M. They only have RE above, with 123M.

In Sony the closes series would be GT and Destiny but still under 80M. If Sony would have bought them, Tomb Raider would have been their best selling series.

Yes, they were severely underpriced. Tomb Raider is a very popular, iconic IP with even popular movies and known beyond gaming. The series alone has a lot of value, way more than these $300M.

The recent trilogy sold 38M, an average of over a dozen million copies per game which is something very little games sell. Maybe weren't so profitable or even some game had loses, but this could have been tweaked optimizing costs, improving the marketing, partnerships and monetization/pricing strategy.

I think has more to do with low profitability but specially with not achieving the super unrealistic sales expectations we saw in SE's side and wrong decisions SE took (like asking Crystal Dynamics to make a GaaS when they and SE had no related experience/expertise and when Crystal Dynamics fans didn't want them make a GaaS game).

Also, the old ones weren't available to buy for $2, which is literally how much the cost on PSN during sales (which happen a lot).
Welcome to the videogames. Here 99% of the games get discounted and price cutted, many of them even included in game subs or PC bundles for almost free. But even doing that 99.99% of the games don't achieve over a dozen million copies sold, 99% of the trilogies don't sell 38M units and 99% of the series don't reach 88M units sold. Many games are even free to play.
 
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Yep, the last tomb raider already had parts that felt open world. To be fair the latest trilogy it was obvious they took everything they like from other games and put it there.

I can already see Lara on a Motorcycle exploring the world… killing zombies! Joking!
I kinda want that now…
 
What I said it's a fact. If you look at what series sold over 88 million there are only maybe a dozen or two.

As an example, in Capcom MH sold 78M, SF 47M, DMC 25M and Mega Man 37M. They only have RE above, with 123M.

In Sony the closes series would be GT and Destiny but still under 80M. If Sony would have bought them, Tomb Raider would have been their best selling series.

Yes, they were severely underpriced. Tomb Raider is a very popular, iconic IP with even popular movies and known beyond gaming. The series alone has a lot of value, way more than these $300M.

The recent trilogy sold 38M, an average of over a dozen million copies per game which is something very little games sell. Maybe weren't so profitable or even some game had loses, but this could have been tweaked optimizing costs, improving the marketing, partnerships and monetization/pricing strategy.

I think has more to do with low profitability but specially with not achieving the super unrealistic sales expectations we saw in SE's side and wrong decisions SE took (like asking Crystal Dynamics to make a GaaS when they and SE had no related experience/expertise and when Crystal Dynamics fans didn't want them make a GaaS game).


Welcome to the videogames. Here 99% of the games get discounted and price cutted, many of them even included in game subs or PC bundles for almost free. But even doing that 99.99% of the games don't achieve over a dozen million copies sold, 99% of the trilogies don't sell 38M units and 99% of the series don't reach 88M units sold. Many games are even free to play.
The point is the games aren't very profitable, if at all. That's why SE wanted to offload them, to get rid of those operating costs. The 300 million was just a bonus. That's the most anyone, including Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo, was willing to pay. And trust me, they know more than us.

 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
The point is the games aren't very profitable, if at all. That's why SE wanted to offload them, to get rid of those operating costs. The 300 million was just a bonus. That's the most anyone, including Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo, was willing to pay. And trust me, they know more than us.

It is interesting to note that the last TR game was in 2018 and we weren't given the financials for that year or any release year.

But the 300 million dollar price + what they said pretty much just spells it all out... they likely didn't have great financial outlook those years either.

Games can sell loads of copies and still underperform financially; people need to realize these numbers are highly inflated by sales/discounts, inclusions in sub services or "free games" (XBLG, PS+,Prime, EGS,Humble,etc.) and so the revenue for copies sold on average is likely nowhere near what you'd get from a $60 sale. I'm not suggesting TR games have been on all the sub services or given away by EGS, but they likely have at least participated in some of those at some point in time and generated some of their "millions of sales" (at pennies on the dollar for them.)

Poorly run companies can produce good games, but at incredibly high costs.
 

The_hunter

Member
I'm dreading seeing the new Lara Croft, which way will the tone/design go? Will she be sassy, cool, Hooty McBoob once again or will she be a 15-stone, side-shaved haircut, surfboard "realistic woman"?

Awkward Nervous Wreck GIF by DeRay Davis
Its THQ nordic, why would she be that way?
 

DaGwaphics

Member
What I said it's a fact. If you look at what series sold over 88 million there are only maybe a dozen or two.

As an example, in Capcom MH sold 78M, SF 47M, DMC 25M and Mega Man 37M. They only have RE above, with 123M.

In Sony the closes series would be GT and Destiny but still under 80M. If Sony would have bought them, Tomb Raider would have been their best selling series.

Yes, they were severely underpriced. Tomb Raider is a very popular, iconic IP with even popular movies and known beyond gaming. The series alone has a lot of value, way more than these $300M.

The recent trilogy sold 38M, an average of over a dozen million copies per game which is something very little games sell. Maybe weren't so profitable or even some game had loses, but this could have been tweaked optimizing costs, improving the marketing, partnerships and monetization/pricing strategy.

I think has more to do with low profitability but specially with not achieving the super unrealistic sales expectations we saw in SE's side and wrong decisions SE took (like asking Crystal Dynamics to make a GaaS when they and SE had no related experience/expertise and when Crystal Dynamics fans didn't want them make a GaaS game).


Welcome to the videogames. Here 99% of the games get discounted and price cutted, many of them even included in game subs or PC bundles for almost free. But even doing that 99.99% of the games don't achieve over a dozen million copies sold, 99% of the trilogies don't sell 38M units and 99% of the series don't reach 88M units sold. Many games are even free to play.

Agree completely, I think TR still has some legs left. Might even be good for a TV show if they made it a fast paced adventure series and didn't ham it up too bad.
 

Laptop1991

Member
I've got them all, i played the 1st one on PC in 97 with a Voodoo card, but i haven't finished the last 3, i got a bit bored playing them and the games didn't keep me playing or immersed, so i hope personally the new owner's will make any newer entries more addictive to play like the older games.
 

Kerotan

Member
It's so boring thought. The first was good. The second was too much moaning to care. CBA with the 3rd.
 

reinking

Member
Tomb Raider alone is worth $1B to me. What happened is shocking. Microsoft throwing $100M for 1 year exclusivity shows that it's worth a lot for Microsoft, at least. If there are massive debts included then I can understand.
I'm starting to think it shows that Phil Spencer is good at over spending MS money. :messenger_grinning:

I loved the first Tomb Raider but the franchise (genre) never stuck with me. I can't say I disliked it but I waited for good sales to buy the games. I do the same with Uncharted games.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
Tomb Raider alone is worth $1B to me. What happened is shocking. Microsoft throwing $100M for 1 year exclusivity shows that it's worth a lot for Microsoft, at least. If there are massive debts included then I can understand.
Yeah it was the big IP Square Enix owned for me, they have a lot to prove with FF after FF7RI for me. But Tomb Raider, I played through the new trilogy awhile back, they aren’t without issues but they’re all really good games and owning the legacy titles and an icon like Lara Croft is such a big deal. I don’t understand the low price. But I’m glad it happened, Lara Croft is too iconic to be stuck in one platform.
I hope they use both Crystal Dynamics and Eidos in parallell for new Tomb Raider games, both studios knows what they’re doing. Future looks bright!
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
Yeah it was the big IP Square Enix owned for me, they have a lot to prove with FF after FF7RI for me. But Tomb Raider, I played through the new trilogy awhile back, they aren’t without issues but they’re all really good games and owning the legacy titles and an icon like Lara Croft is such a big deal. I don’t understand the low price. But I’m glad it happened, Lara Croft is too iconic to be stuck in one platform.
I hope they use both Crystal Dynamics and Eidos in parallell for new Tomb Raider games, both studios knows what they’re doing. Future looks bright!

Yeah, I guess the worst thing would have been if SE had kept it, seeing that they are going all in on blockchain and all that nonsense.
 

Spitfire098

Member
Tomb raider is worth so much more. So much more that no other big publisher (MS, Sony, Nintendo, etc) decided to out bid that measly 300 million.
 

DAHGAMING

Member
I'm dreading seeing the new Lara Croft, which way will the tone/design go? Will she be sassy, cool, Hooty McBoob once again or will she be a 15-stone, side-shaved haircut, surfboard "realistic woman"?

Awkward Nervous Wreck GIF by DeRay Davis

Whatever 1 we get she will have a bigger cock than both of us thats for sure.
 
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