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[T0minator]

Lately, I've been thinking about the state of this industry. In my opinion, Movies and Music are at a point where they're more "mature" than the videogame industry. Yes, I understand it's relatively new compared to those two. But videogames are advancing at a rapid pace. Games have the potential to be better than ever now.

However!!!..

With movies and music I don't see people missing out on great stuff just because of the company that produced it. Only in videogames will people miss out on great games because they don't like the console it's on. It's sad that developers spend years upon years making a game just to have a good portion of people thinking "it's trash " because its not on their favorite console.

The masses don't care who the parent companies are for Netflix, Hulu, Prime. That's how movies hit millions even billions of viewers. But with videogames it's become apparent how territorial and tribalistic some people are solely based off of having to purchase a console.

Will the videogame industry hit the point where people play and enjoy the latest God of War, Gears of War and Super Mario and not care who the manufacturer is? How awesome would that be for people to enjoy games no matter who produces it.

 

[Represent.]

I don't care about console wars, they are fun.

The people who are against "console wars" take it more seriously than the actual fanboys do. The fanboys are mostly just trolling in good fun.

EDIT: I thought this thread was going to be about video games maturing in terms of writing/themes... THATS where we need to mature.. Developers need ot take some fucking risks.

 

[Sosokrates]

The question is when graphics look like reality and A.i actors become possible, human actors will be done

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Competition drives innovation. Some of the best games are what they are because platform holders wanted to sell you their hardware.

 

[T0minator]

I don't care about console wars, they are fun.

The people who are against "console wars" take it more seriously than the actual fanboys do. The fanboys are mostly just trolling in good fun.

EDIT: I thought this thread was going to be about video games maturing in terms of writing/themes... THATS where we need to mature.. Developers need ot take some fucking risks.

I'm not aware of people not watching certain movies because Paramount Pictures produced it or Warner Bros created it. I really don't think people care who produces the movies or music. People will watch or hear it because it's good content.

Videogames are completely different. Most people want to know if it's on their favorite platform, if it's not then they don't have a desire to play it. That's where the maturity level is lower in my opinion. But competition does breed better content, I guess. I just think how many great games are missed and avoided because of the tribalistic mindset

 

[Pyral Phoenix]

This comparison isn't really valid

 

[ParaSeoul]

I don't really see how thats an example of the industry not being mature,I know plenty of people who missed out on series on a streaming platform they don't have. I also don't think theres any streaming service with anywhere close to a billion users.

 

[Bkdk]

I do not like playing on consoles because of no mods nor trainers. There are honestly a lot of times that trainers help me enjoy a game so much more even just slight changes of quick run, super jump, save anywhere or some functions that help me skip a portion of map design/enemy design/puzzle that I hate. Not to mention mods that add so much longetivity of games. It's getting so hard for me to go back to playing on consoles, I rather spend much more for a good pc. Years ago I still kind of tolerate those shortcomings, but now I'm more like fuck it, why even bother, rather wait for pc version 99% of the time.

 

[ParaSeoul]

I do not like playing on consoles because of no mods nor trainers. There are honestly a lot of times that trainers help me enjoy a game so much more even just slight changes of quick run, super jump, save anywhere or some functions that help me skip a portion of map design/enemy design/puzzle that I hate.

At this point do you even enjoy playing games? You're not even playing it the way the creator intended

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[Bkdk]

At this point do you even enjoy playing games? You're not even playing it the way the creator intended

For me the way gaming moves forward is that developers actually releasing robust mod tools that allow community to tweak or add content to the games, I always hope developers can go more of elder scrolls way, just develop a open world playground and let people add or tweak content, or at least have multiple pathways that allow my character to choose actions that will impact the story or gameworld, I never like linear stories, that's why I pick gaming as my top hobby, for linear stories I usually just watch it on youtube, or watch a movie.

 

[T0minator]

This comparison isn't really valid

But it is though, I'm not talking about steaming services specifically. I'm talking movies and music in general. If most people heard that new Spiderman movie was a great movie they'll find a way to watch it not caring who made the movie or what platform it's on...If gamers heard the new Spiderman game is great they would play it if it's on their console of choice, if it's not they're less likely to play it. For example my cousin hates Nintendo consoles thinking they're all "trash" but now he's missing out on every great game they produce automatically.
People aren't like that with movie or music companies.

 

[ParaSeoul]

Most people are not willing to spend rivers of money on a hobby. Most just buy one console and stick to it (usually whichever they perceive as having a good price + games that interest them)
It's not about tribalism, it's about having limited resources to spend on a hobby.

This,I think people forget how expensive gaming is in general as a hobby.

 

[ParaSeoul]

For me the way gaming moves forward is that developers actually releasing robust mod tools that allow community to tweak or add content to the games, I always hope developers can go more of elder scrolls way, just develop a open world playground and let people add or tweak content, or at least have multiple pathways that allow my character to choose actions that will impact the story or gameworld, I never like linear stories, that's why I pick gaming as my top hobby, for linear stories I usually just watch it on youtube, or watch a movie.

Yeah what you want is just a sandbox to explore and experiment in,thats fine. But a lot of people prefer linear games,I don't think a big push in either direction will somehow move gaming forward.

 

[T0minator]

Movies and music are content. There is no platform, and those movie studios wouldn't benefit from that, since they're not selling dedicated "movie players".
Video games are software. They're made to be run under specific hardware constraints (OS, CPU architecture, etc). Console manufacturers have to sell to the consumer not only the software, but the hardware too.

That's my point exactly. How can gaming "mature" or "evolve" to hit that point where movies and music are at now. To become content not just software. To be enjoyed by everyone no matter the platform. If gaming got to that point where game developers like Todd Howard or Niel Druckman can have the viewership like a Steven Spielberg, not restricted by a platform.

 

[EDMIX]

Lately, I've been thinking about the state of this industry. In my opinion, Movies and Music are at a point where they're more "mature" than the videogame industry. Yes, I understand it's relatively new compared to those two. But videogames are advancing at a rapid pace. Games have the potential to be better than ever now.

However!!!..

With movies and music I don't see people missing out on great stuff just because of the company that produced it. Only in videogames will people miss out on great games because they don't like the console it's on. It's sad that developers spend years upon years making a game just to have a good portion of people thinking "it's trash " because its not on their favorite console.

The masses don't care who the parent companies are for Netflix, Hulu, Prime. That's how movies hit millions even billions of viewers. But with videogames it's become apparent how territorial and tribalistic some people are solely based off of having to purchase a console.

Will the videogame industry hit the point where people play and enjoy the latest God of War, Gears of War and Super Mario and not care who the manufacturer is? How awesome would that be for people to enjoy games no matter who produces it.

Agreed. Gaming is just not there yet. For godsake we have people complain when 1 other western game shows up be like "Red Dead clones" and or "enough is enough" lol I've never seen something like this in any other industry, where people literally fucking act like 1 game per genre is allowed under the same setting or theme.

Someone dies in a game "omg this was DISRESPECTFUL to da fanz"


When you have a medium still young like this, you'll see this deep resistance to change anything and people desperately trying to put training wheels on games all while asking shit like "we need something new, fresh, IN-NO-vativez" lol its like, even when someone does something new, they'll just bash it based on it not being the same old shit, if its the same old shit they'll bash it for not being new. I believe the inudstry needs those studios that make games regardless of some peoples fucking feelings. You need to crack a few eggs to bake a cake and I believe the industry needs it for the long run

 

[ParaSeoul]

That's my point exactly. How can gaming "mature" or "evolve" to hit that point where movies and music are at now. To become content not just software. To be enjoyed by everyone no matter the platform. If gaming got to that point where game developers like Todd Howard or Niel Druckman can have the viewership like a Steven Spielberg, not restricted by a platform.

Probably when cloud gaming is actually on par with a game running locally on your console/pc but even still almost anyone can watch a movie,not everyone can play games.

 

[T0minator]

This,I think people forget how expensive gaming is in general as a hobby.

Movies used to be expensive..having to rent or buy movies all the time if you wanted to see a movie...now it doesn't seem expensive at all. Will games get to that point.

Example: millions of people are going to miss out on Hellblade 2 because it's not on their favorite platform. Millions of people are going to miss out on Horizon Forbidden West because it's not on their favorite platform. Those companies don't have the viewership that a Spiderman: No Way Home has. Will gaming get to that point where they have that audience Spiderman: No Way Home has. I'm hoping in the future the answer is yes

 

[Jonnie_Darko]

Depending in what you mean by that. They can mature in terms of photorealism? Writing? Gameplay? Each game has their own vertical and audiences so If it gets more "mature" it wont be for everyone on the industry.

 

[Bkdk]

Yeah what you want is just a sandbox to explore and experiment in,thats fine. But a lot of people prefer linear games,I don't think a big push in either direction will somehow move gaming forward.

I do see a big push into sandbox experience, just a lot more expensive. The potential of revenue per user for people who love non linear sandbox experience is likely way higher, those days of elder scrolls of allowing people create mods for free will likely be gone though, publishers and devs will be more likely to take a cut for certain mods, also devs will be charging people more and more for added options for their sandbox games.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[ParaSeoul]

Ninja'd

On the other hand, there are experiences that can only be had with dedicated gaming machines, such as the Nintendo DS.
But I suppose both can coexist without any issues.

Yeah I'm not looking forward to a cloud gaming only future but its the only way I can see what OP wants happening

 

[EekTheKat]

Oddly enough with the scramble towards movie and tv streaming, movie audience fragmentation will be a thing through exclusives on each service.

And yes people have missed out on movies and tv because they don't like the streaming platform they are on.

 

[T0minator]

Depending in what you mean by that. They can mature in terms of photorealism? Writing? Gameplay? Each game has their own vertical and audiences so If it gets more "mature" it wont be for everyone on the industry.

I mean mature as in people not having to pick sides anymore. People don't pick sides in movies or music. Do people avoid watching movies from Paramount Pictures? I highly doubt it, people don't care about that. But do people avoid games from Bethesda? Possibly now, if they're hardcore to PlayStation. That's not a mature mindset.


Some developers have to deal with the issue of hearing fans say "that game is trash " if it's not on their favorite console. Movies don't have that issue. People don't pick movies based of the production company. Why is the videogame industry the only industry dealing with that. Is it because at this point we have to buy a console or PC to play the games.. and we feel like we have to defend that purchase. I think it would be awesome if videogames industry was all collectively a whole unified industry like movies and music are. I download Spotify listen to whatever I want no matter who produced the music. I guess the answer to this whole thread is cloud streaming

 

[8BiTw0LF]

You're absolutely right, but that's mainly a distribution issue. The same distribution issue has been part of the comics universe for 50 years - just look at Marvel and DC.
Competition is healthy and fans of product x and product y keeps business going - that's why video games sells more than movies and music combined.

 

[Indyblue]

I'm not aware of people not watching certain movies because Paramount Pictures produced it or Warner Bros created it. I really don't think people care who produces the movies or music. People will watch or hear it because it's good content.

Videogames are completely different. Most people want to know if it's on their favorite platform, if it's not then they don't have a desire to play it. That's where the maturity level is lower in my opinion. But competition does breed better content, I guess. I just think how many great games are missed and avoided because of the tribalistic mindset

Well a big difference here is that people don’t have to buy another $300-$500 streaming box just to watch Paramount movies.

 

[StateofMajora]

Movies and music are content. There is no platform, and those movie studios wouldn't benefit from that, since they're not selling dedicated "movie players".
Video games are software. They're made to be run under specific hardware constraints (OS, CPU architecture, etc). Console manufacturers have to sell to the consumer not only the software, but the hardware too.


Most people are not willing to spend rivers of money on a hobby. Most just buy one console and stick to it (usually whichever they perceive as having a good price + games that interest them)
It's not about tribalism, it's about having limited resources to spend on a hobby.

Mmm it’s more about tribalism. Maybe when you’re 10 years old money is more of a factor.

 

[plip.plop]

I was talking to the wife about this a few days ago. I honestly think the word "games" holds this medium back from getting people (critics) to take it seriously. If the industry moves to call it Interactive entertainment or something that omits games will it be taken seriously. Video games are the evolution of entertainment media. Adopters that enjoy this medium are still considered early adopters and people that refuse to grow up. Movies had their growing pains in the beginning as well.
I turned 45 this year and still get looked at as a weirdo that I play video games even though they there were before I could pick up the sticks. btw, Coleco Vision was my first system for reference. lol

 

[Ebidramon]

Videogames will always be seen as immature.

Simply because words game, and playing is associated with kids.

 

[rahuljx]

Its got nothing to do with maturity. There's a barrier of entry in videogames. If the average consumer could play every game on the same console then this wouldnt be a thing. There's a difference between USD 10 and USD 400 so you cant quite compare.

 

[009EspadaSageJay]

The only reason why tv shows and movies hit the billions is because its next to nothing to watch half of these series you can literally pirate entire series for noting also there are tons of people who have tv shows or movies just playing in the background. There are people who will watch a tv or movies series because there girlfriend,wife,family ect has an interest in it and they have an interest in making them happy "Twilight" they may have 0 attachment to it outside of that and at max they may be out of $5-30 with gaming you have to buy the console then the game then you have to actually interact with it and use brain power,motor skills and quick decision making to pass every obstacle or challenge. All you have to do with most tvs shows and movies is open your eyes turn on the tv and hit play and you can even burn your brain off and think about anything else going on and still catch the gist of the show or movie.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Fanboys will mostly die out when every game can be streamed to your TV day one with good enough quality and latency. and I don’t think we’re too far off from that. I also think you have an exaggerated idea of how common console wars are because you hang out on this forum. In reality it’s mostly just teenagers and manchildren doing that stuff.

Though of course, as always, Nintendo is gonna Nintendo.

 

[EDMIX]

I was talking to the wife about this a few days ago. I honestly think the word "games" holds this medium back from getting people (critics) to take it seriously. If the industry moves to call it Interactive entertainment or something that omits games will it be taken seriously. Video games are the evolution of entertainment media. Adopters that enjoy this medium are still considered early adopters and people that refuse to grow up. Movies had their growing pains in the beginning as well.
I turned 45 this year and still get looked at as a weirdo that I play video games even though they there were before I could pick up the sticks. btw, Coleco Vision was my first system for reference. lol

This 10000x I feel the same way and we need a whole ass thread on that one. The term holds back the medium as people keep seeing it as a "game" to win, beat, pass, fail lol It feels like some congress is going on and some congressmen doesn't know shit about games and they are asking one of those professionals to speak for the industry and they'd ask shit like "ok, so how many points does the player get on the level killing the hookers....WITH A GUN MIND YOU" lol Its not even to say points don't exist, or a leaderboard, or levels, simply that the medium has expanded far beyond that concept that I don't believe the WHOLE THING can be called gaming any more. The thing generally going on in a lot of titles can't even be seen as some competitive thing.

So I get why Druckmann states The Last Of Us 2 they don't use the word "fun" as who the fuck describes that based on something like Straw Dogs? Saw? Cape Fear? One can watch a horror, suspense, thriller etc love what they watched and not describe it as "fun", we have many different genres and many different reason why people play games, some times it is for fun, some times for fear, some times for a deeper engagement

 

[ParaSeoul]

Mmm it’s more about tribalism. Maybe when you’re 10 years old money is more of a factor.

You can't really speak for everyone,different situations and if you're american,you'd definitely wouldn't understand how expensive it can get in places with high taxes and import fees.

 

[Ebidramon]

I am sure videogame industry will do just fine even without "Mature." seal of approval.

You can change the term, but games will always be games.

So I get why Druckmann states The Last Of Us 2 they don't use the word "fun" as who the fuck describes that based on something like Straw Dogs? Saw? Cape Fear? One can watch a horror, suspense, thriller etc love what they watched and not describe it as "fun", we have many different genres and many different reason why people play games, some times it is for fun, some times for fear, some times for a deeper engagement

Druckmann can say whatever he wants, and make it as bloody and as dramatic as he wishes, doesn't change the fact that at the end of day, his stuff isn't above being a videogame.


Final Fantasy X is rather depressing title, and yet people still had fun with it.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

I’d argue that a lot of the time, games are more mature than movies. Look at some of the shit that Hollywood crap out.

 

[DarkTom]

With movies and music I don't see people missing out on great stuff just because of the company that produced it. Only in videogames will people miss out on great games because they don't like the console it's on.

This is very wrong.
A lot of movies are not available in your local theater. Actually most of them are not. Also if you have not Netflix you cannot watch their movies and shows.
About music, even though I love Spotify, there are underground music that is not available on it. It is rather obscure I admit, but it does not mean it is not great.

 

[cormack12]

Yeah that's wrong. What about NETFLIX originals, Prime exclusives, or only on HBO? If anything those markets are growing not shrinking. Exclusives are reasons to adopt/subscribe to the platform otherwise how would you differentiate?

But it is though, I'm not talking about steaming services specifically. I'm talking movies and music in general. If most people heard that new Spiderman movie was a great movie they'll find a way to watch it not caring who made the movie or what platform it's on...

If someone wanted to watch Arcane now, what would they need to do to watch it (legally)? Subscribe to Netflix.
If someone wanted to play Gears or TLOU, what would they need to do? Buy a console (or) Subscribe for a month for xCloud or PSNow

And I think you're wrong. If Gears disc worked in a PlayStation, then lots of PlayStation owners would buy it. And vice versa with Uncharted etc. If people think a game is trash just because it's on an Xbox or PlayStation then the question of maturity needs to be asked of them not the industry.

 

[Spaceman292]

I don't care about console wars, they are fun.

The people who are against "console wars" take it more seriously than the actual fanboys do. The fanboys are mostly just trolling in good fun.

EDIT: I thought this thread was going to be about video games maturing in terms of writing/themes... THATS where we need to mature.. Developers need ot take some fucking risks.

When devs try to do mature you usually end up with miserable stuff like Last of Us 2

 

[nush]

I was talking to the wife about this a few days ago. I honestly think the word "games" holds this medium back from getting people (critics) to take it seriously. If the industry moves to call it Interactive entertainment or something that omits games will it be taken seriously. Video games are the evolution of entertainment media. Adopters that enjoy this medium are still considered early adopters and people that refuse to grow up. Movies had their growing pains in the beginning as well.
I turned 45 this year and still get looked at as a weirdo that I play video games even though they there were before I could pick up the sticks. btw, Coleco Vision was my first system for reference. lol

100% agree. A rebranding and cultural shift are needed for videogames to actually become truly mainstream.

 

[AV]

Apples and oranges. Most music for free or close to it. Anyone watching movies legally is stuck between a dozen different subscription services, theatres and home releases.

At the same time the video game industry absolutely destroys the other two in terms of revenue.

 

[bad guy]

With all those Superhero movies I feel movies have lost their maturity a lot in the past years, well at least the most popular movies.

But Gears of War, Super Mario,... don't really scream maturity either.

 

[T0minator]

Its got nothing to do with maturity. There's a barrier of entry in videogames. If the average consumer could play every game on the same console then this wouldnt be a thing. There's a difference between USD 10 and USD 400 so you cant quite compare.

Let's say this past week as an example on sites like this and Twitter. I don't usually go on Twitter but it was mind-blowing how much bickering and nonsense there has been about "Hellblade 2 vs Horizon FW" it shows a huge lack of maturity within the community in this industry. Millions of people will miss out and deny themselves of either experience for silly reasons.

Why? Not because of a price barrier and not because of it only being available on a specific console. If someone really wanted to play the game they would make it happen. Just like people do with movies and music. It's because gamers get tribalistic and deny themselves the experience of one of those games. Movies I don't see that happening...people don't deny themselves an experience of a certain movie because Columbia Pictures made the movie. When have you ever heard "Columbia pictures sucks they're trash!". We hear comments like that all the time in the videogame industry.

There's a lot of growing to be done still. I get it's not the majority. But when was the last time or have you ever heard someone say they didn't want to watch a specific movie because of the movie studio that made it?

 

[kuncol02]

Its got nothing to do with maturity. There's a barrier of entry in videogames. If the average consumer could play every game on the same console then this wouldnt be a thing. There's a difference between USD 10 and USD 400 so you cant quite compare.

There is also second difference of 2 vs 20 hours. Games and movies are not comparable at all as medium.

 

[EekTheKat]

There's a lot of growing to be done still. I get it's not the majority. But when was the last time or have you ever heard someone say they didn't want to watch a specific movie because of the movie studio that made it?

The one that immediately comes to mind is "MARVEL STUDIOS" - these days that name alone gets a lot of divisive opinions on their films.

Also there are certain filmmakers with fanbases that can be difficult to relate to if you do not like their films. At the risk of damning myself I love movies but I have difficulties staying awake at a 3 hour historically fiction art film by one of the best regarded foreign filmmakers on the planet. I can tolerate his movies but I would under no circumstances recommend his films for anybody with less than an iron will.

 

[rahuljx]

Let's say this past week as an example on sites like this and Twitter. I don't usually go on Twitter but it was mind-blowing how much bickering and nonsense there has been about "Hellblade 2 vs Horizon FW" it shows a huge lack of maturity within the community in this industry. Millions of people will miss out and deny themselves of either experience for silly reasons.

Why? Not because of a price barrier and not because of it only being available on a specific console. If someone really wanted to play the game they would make it happen. Just like people do with movies and music. It's because gamers get tribalistic and deny themselves the experience of one of those games. Movies I don't see that happening...people don't deny themselves an experience of a certain movie because Columbia Pictures made the movie. When have you ever heard "Columbia pictures sucks they're trash!". We hear comments like that all the time in the videogame industry.

There's a lot of growing to be done still. I get it's not the majority. But when was the last time or have you ever heard someone say they didn't want to watch a specific movie because of the movie studio that made it?

For Movies as I said there is no real barrier. At the end of the day you are buying a ticket whether it’s Paramount or Columbia. When it comes to streaming its a similar price point of 10ish bucks a month. If Hellblade 2 or Horizon FW were on the same console and all It took was paying the same amount of cash, you wouldn’t have the bickering you are talking about. After all you never have anyone within the Sony camp saying that I will never buy an insomniac, sucker punch game, etc.

Because there is a financial investment in owning a console it can become an emotional investment over time. You also see this in phones where you have the android and apple fanboys going at each other. But take away the financial element and most of the bickering will go away.

 

[Danjin44]

I'm still not sure how "maturity" has anything to do with it. Like other posters said it has more to do with people don't want spend more than $1000 getting multiple systems in order to play every game that comes out and majority of people don't even have the time to play all the games.

 

[Boglin]

I don't see it.
In every industry there are people missing out on amazing things due to brand loyalty. I think video games are being put under a microscope here while looking at other media broadly.

This issue here is people's natural inclination to validate their purchases. Anytime exclusives or a difference in features are involved, people will start nitpicking and turning into fanboys. From betamax/vhs, ipod/zune/creative zen, different tv brands, Marvel vs DC, etc... People will argue incessantly about anything that they have invested money into.

If Harry Potter was an HD DVD exclusive back in the day, you could bet your ass blu-ray fanboys would war about it. The media's maturity isn't the problem, it's people's access to the different platforms. The thing that will inevitably end any platform war is when convenience and affordability converge.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I'd say the bigest "immaturity" of the industry right now is, paradoxically, how it tries too hard to be perceived as "mature" and "serious", living in the shadow of hollywood instead of accepting its own identity. Its like a teen who refuses to play with kids and watch cartoons because he insists he's a 'grown up', only gory movies and getting drunk on vodka are allowed now.

 

[tygertrip]

At this point do you even enjoy playing games? You're not even playing it the way the creator intended

Do they have fun? Then yes.