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The Xbox and Gamecube were very close in the US, did the Xbox have the better games? Or did Nintendo destroy consumer confidence?

BlackTron

Member
Wow great insight bro, enlighten me to what I was using it for if not playing games? It was fucking awful

I could start listing all the ways the GC controller is awesome, but you haven't had much to say about why it's so bad other than "it was fucking awful" so I'm not sure why I should argue with nothing.

Given your take on the N64 as well, I'm guessing you just don't like controllers that look silly.
 
I could start listing all the ways the GC controller is awesome, but you haven't had much to say about why it's so bad other than "it was fucking awful" so I'm not sure why I should argue with nothing.

Given your take on the N64 as well, I'm guessing you just don't like controllers that look silly.
They could look like dog shit for all I care, as long as it's COMFORTABLE and functions well

Both controllers are neither, complete trash
 

BlackTron

Member
They could look like dog shit for all I care, as long as it's COMFORTABLE and functions well

Both controllers are neither, complete trash

My opinion is the complete opposite, they look dumb yet are actually good.

Are you sure you were using a real Gamecube controller and not Mad Katz?
 

Doom85

Member
PS2’s first party library is great and carried a decent amount of quality 3rd party titles, but people forget just how much terrible shovelware was stuffed into that console’s lifecycle. Everyone remembers the good games while almost always forgetting the nauseating amount of crap produced.

The ratio of quality games/garbage for the PS2 library is like 30% to 70%. For GameCube though, that ratio felt a little closer… say, 45% to 55% (thanks in part to a smaller library).

But when your library is THAT large, it kinda doesn’t matter as much. As you said, Gamecube’s library was strong but small. PS2’s was fucking massive so even with the garbage weeded out you were still left with one of the most insane gens for a console ever seen.

(keeping it to games that stayed exclusive for a year, though most people I know played series like Devil May Cry and Silent Hill on PlayStation as opposed to Xbox)

Ace Combat 4 and 5
Ape Escape 2 and 3
Dark Cloud 1 and 2
Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2
Dragon Quest VIII
Everybody’s Golf 3 and 4
Fatal Frame 3
Final Fantasy X and XII
Front Mission 4 and 5
God of War 1 and 2
Guilty Gear X2
Haunting Ground
Ico/Shadow of the Colossus
Jak and Daxter 1-3
Katamari 1 and 2
Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2
Klonoa 2
Mark of Kri
Metal Gear Solid 3
Okami
Onimusha 2 and 3
Persona 3 and 4
Ratchet and Clank 1-3
Resident Evil Outbreak 1 and 2
Rogue Galaxy
Rule of Rose
Shadow Hearts 1-3
Shin Megami Tensei 3
Sly Cooper 1-3
SSX
Suikoden 3
Tales of the Abyss/Legendia
Xenosaga 1-3

Like, do you know why nobody remembers the bad PS2 games? Because there were way too many great games on the system for our brains to have room to remember the bad games!

The Simpsons Kiss GIF by FOX International Channels
 
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I had all three, and hands down the OG Xbox was my personal favorite of the gen.

Halo 1 and 2
Morrowind
KOTOR 1 and 2
Doom 3
All of Sega's shit
Jade Empire
Crimson Skies
MechAssault 1 and 2
Phantasy Star Online

Straight up fucking bangers, and those are just what I remember off the top of my head.
 
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StormCell

Member
I recall IGN doing a post-generation look at platform exclusives for PS2, GC, and Xbox. They came away with a unanimous conclusion that GameCube actually had the strongest collection of console exclusives. It did not have the most console exclusives (that would be PS2), but it had, I think, the most exclusives rated 90% (or 9/10) and above. I can see that being the case.

Still, no one disputes the dominance of the PS2. What the topic is literally about is how the Xbox managed to inch ahead of GameCube. I feel that this happened as a matter of a combination of factors that summed together made for a perception that one was geared towards a more mature audience while the other was solidly geared towards kids. Xbox was an ugly console, no doubt about it, but it looked edgy. The games it showcased were more serious. The OG Xbox was the definitive platform to play sports games. NFL 2K5 looked and played best on Xbox. It had multiple amazing baseball titles. It was the definitive console to play WWF games while allowing you more freedom to craft your custom wrestler complete with unique entrance themes (via mp3s) and such. Additionally, Xbox was the console designed to play online.

Xbox inched ahead of GameCube not by converting Nintendo fanboys but buy convincing more PS2 owners they needed an Xbox to have the complete experience. Play GTA on Playstation, but when you need a break come and play Halo, Splinter Cell, or one of the various sports titles online with Xbox. Sure, PS2 implemented online play as well, but Xbox was a superior piece of hardware.

And if I had to guess, I would say that the Xbox owner average age did skew slightly older than either PS2 or GCN. I remember Xbox being more of the rage on my college campus while PS2 more or less silently dominated. By contrast, quite a few girls I met owned a PS2 for playing DVDs and one or two games they thought they had to have. This was about as synonymous in college as the college girl who got the new laptop for college and basically had Sims 3 with all 125 DLC's installed on it.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
OG Xbox had a really strong library of games. Nintendo's offering was strong too IF you had a connection to their famous characters/franchises, which I didn't since I always chose another platform for one reason or another since the beginning.
 

FeldMonster

Member
For me personally, I grew up and Nintendo did not grow up with me.

I was a massive Nintendo fan during the Super Nintendo and Nintendo 64 eras (I had an Original Nintendo, but it was quickly supplanted by the Super Nintendo.

Gamecube felt like a massive betrayal after the prior 2 consoles. First, it was purple, and not a cool royal purple, but kiddie pastel purple. The controller felt comfortable but had too many flaws, such as the abysmal C stick and the singular Z button. Third party games were often massively gimped compared to their counterparts on the Xbox.

But most importantly to me (at the time), the first party games were awful in comparison to their predecessors. Mario Sunshine compared Mario 64? Ugh. Double Dash compared to Mario Kart 64? Ugh. And then games like Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin instead of Banjo and Diddy Kong Racing. Awful.

And then, the coup de grace, Zelda. Seeing the SpaceWorld 2000 demo after Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask was like a glimpse into heaven. Then, at SpaceWorld 2001, the monstrosity of Wind Waker was revealed. Nintendo plunged the knife deep into my back with that atrocity. Metroid Prime and Echoes were fantastic, but with a real 2nd analog stick would have been even more amazing. Gamecube made me drop Nintendo forever. I still don't understand the appeal of a Nintendo Switch, there must be more 7-12 year olds out there than I realize. Fortunately, I discovered Halo in college and never looked back.
 
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A.Romero

Member
My main was PS2 (MGS too big of a pull) but a few years after I got an Xbox. I was really interested in the connectivity options. That console was a tech wonder, installing XBMC turned it into something else, way ahead of it's time.

I had a good time playing Halo 2 and Burnout online with a friend.
 

Griffon

Member
Losing Rareware and going with stupid Wind Waker for Zelda alienated a good half of their N64 audience. Nintendo had nobody but themselves to blame.

Perfect Dark should've been a GC launch game.
 
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StormCell

Member
For me personally, I grew up and Nintendo did not grow with me.

I was a massive Nintendo fan during the Super Nintendo and Nintendo 64 eras (I had an Original Nintendo, but it was quickly supplanted by the Super Nintendo.

Gamecube felt like a massive betrayal after the prior 2 consoles. First, it was purple, and not a cool royal purple, but kiddie pastel purple. The controller felt comfortable but had too many flaws, such as the abysmal C stick and the singular Z button. Third party games were often massively gimped compared to their counterparts on the Xbox.

But most importantly to me (at the time), the first party games were awful in comparison to their predecessors. Mario Sunshine compared Mario 64? Ugh. Double Dash compared to Mario Kart 64? Ugh. And then games like Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin instead of Banjo and Diddy Kong Racing. Awful.

And then, the coup de grace, Zelda. Seeing the SpaceWorld 2000 demo after Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask was like a glimpse into heaven. Then, at SpaceWorld 2001, the monstrosity of Wind Waker was revealed. Nintendo plunged the knife deep into my back with that atrocity. Metroid Prime and Echoes were fantastic, but with a real 2nd analog stick would have been even more amazing. Gamecube made me drop Nintendo forever. I still don't understand the appeal of a Nintendo Switch, there must be more 7-12 year olds out there than I realize. Fortunately, I discovered Halo in college and never looked back.
I never owned an N64. I basically happened into owning a GameCube because I let a PC gaming friend convince me that Xbox would be no good and that GameCube was the way to go because of: Smash Bros Melee, Metroid Prime, eventually Super Mario, and eventually Zelda. Initially I wasn't taken by Mario Sunshine, and I was pretty pissed at Wind Waker's reveal. In hindsight, however, Mario Sunshine is superior to Mario 64 in every conceivable way, and Wind Waker's art direction has left the game in a near ageless state.

It wouldn't be until Wii before I felt fully betrayed by Nintendo. Also, Nintendo Switch has a literal crap load of great games. It's just too bad that they won't release some hardware capable of playing the best of them at a smooth framerate and crisp resolution.
 

NickFire

Member
I had both but dropped Gamecube after a short while. As much as I loved N64, my Gamecube just didn't hold my interest whereas Xbox had online, Halo, and KOTOR (etc.).
 

SkylineRKR

Member
I recall IGN doing a post-generation look at platform exclusives for PS2, GC, and Xbox. They came away with a unanimous conclusion that GameCube actually had the strongest collection of console exclusives. It did not have the most console exclusives (that would be PS2), but it had, I think, the most exclusives rated 90% (or 9/10) and above. I can see that being the case.

Still, no one disputes the dominance of the PS2. What the topic is literally about is how the Xbox managed to inch ahead of GameCube. I feel that this happened as a matter of a combination of factors that summed together made for a perception that one was geared towards a more mature audience while the other was solidly geared towards kids. Xbox was an ugly console, no doubt about it, but it looked edgy. The games it showcased were more serious. The OG Xbox was the definitive platform to play sports games. NFL 2K5 looked and played best on Xbox. It had multiple amazing baseball titles. It was the definitive console to play WWF games while allowing you more freedom to craft your custom wrestler complete with unique entrance themes (via mp3s) and such. Additionally, Xbox was the console designed to play online.

Xbox inched ahead of GameCube not by converting Nintendo fanboys but buy convincing more PS2 owners they needed an Xbox to have the complete experience. Play GTA on Playstation, but when you need a break come and play Halo, Splinter Cell, or one of the various sports titles online with Xbox. Sure, PS2 implemented online play as well, but Xbox was a superior piece of hardware.

And if I had to guess, I would say that the Xbox owner average age did skew slightly older than either PS2 or GCN. I remember Xbox being more of the rage on my college campus while PS2 more or less silently dominated. By contrast, quite a few girls I met owned a PS2 for playing DVDs and one or two games they thought they had to have. This was about as synonymous in college as the college girl who got the new laptop for college and basically had Sims 3 with all 125 DLC's installed on it.

The way I saw it Cube was just a console. You couldn't do anything else with it. Even if you barely do, its still good to have features. I would at times watch a movie on my console, or listen to music on it. On Xbox I did store some music for example. Xbox and PS2 ate CD and DVD and more multimedia capabilities than Cube which had basically zero. Xbox also had no issues with save space. You had basically unlimited storage for save files.

Xbox selling point was its raw power. Cube could look good but Xbox clearly had more power. At the time DoA 3, RalliSport and later Splinter Cell looked like a generation ahead of PS2 for example. Cube was more subtle with this. It could display some neat stuff but in the end it was a Nintendo console with obviously lots of Nintendo games and the least amount of third party support. Some games looked great, others looked much worse. With just a cube you would miss out on lots of then popular franchises both Xbox and PS2 shared. Gamecube had an image problem. I think Ed Fries once said it; you can't take away the fact the GC ultimately is a purple little box with a handle. I didn't look like something most young adults would choose over Xbox or PS2.

PS2 was hampered by worse visuals, no default internal HDD, only 2 controller ports, somewhat weak online support and Cube was hampered by no CD/DVD playback, basically no online, worst third party support. Xbox had the best online, the best visuals, no memory card idiocy etc. PS2 was my fave system that gen, but not because of its power and online capabilities. Simply because of its IP. But I would say Xbox was a good number 2 for me. I really enjoyed the system once I got it, it started with the continuation of Dreamcast games which I felt was cool because I was a DC gamer before that.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
One per year, meanwhile Xbox had many with the third party support they had, it doesn't need to be straight M rated, anything E-T rated but whose audience were more on the 17-21 or older could be missing on Gamecube.
Eh? GC not only had horror games, they also had the best ones.

 

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
But when your library is THAT large, it kinda doesn’t matter as much. As you said, Gamecube’s library was strong but small. PS2’s was fucking massive so even with the garbage weeded out you were still left with one of the most insane gens for a console ever seen.

(keeping it to games that stayed exclusive for a year, though most people I know played series like Devil May Cry and Silent Hill on PlayStation as opposed to Xbox)

Ace Combat 4 and 5
Ape Escape 2 and 3
Dark Cloud 1 and 2
Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2
Dragon Quest VIII
Everybody’s Golf 3 and 4
Fatal Frame 3
Final Fantasy X and XII
Front Mission 4 and 5
God of War 1 and 2
Guilty Gear X2
Haunting Ground
Ico/Shadow of the Colossus
Jak and Daxter 1-3
Katamari 1 and 2
Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2
Klonoa 2
Mark of Kri
Metal Gear Solid 3
Okami
Onimusha 2 and 3
Persona 3 and 4
Ratchet and Clank 1-3
Resident Evil Outbreak 1 and 2
Rogue Galaxy
Rule of Rose
Shadow Hearts 1-3
Shin Megami Tensei 3
Sly Cooper 1-3
SSX
Suikoden 3
Tales of the Abyss/Legendia
Xenosaga 1-3

Like, do you know why nobody remembers the bad PS2 games? Because there were way too many great games on the system for our brains to have room to remember the bad games!

The Simpsons Kiss GIF by FOX International Channels

More people remember and have bad PS2 games, most purchasers fromt he console even. most of the games you listed are niche, flopped, or barely sold even if they were not intended to be niche. No one had Suikoden 3 for example on average than half of the better selling shovelware. Shadow Hearts? Dark Cloud?

Losing Rareware

You guys keep forgetting about Starfox Adventures and MS letting them make GBA games.


Eternal Darkness wasn't on the best sellers list for US.

Mario Sunshine compared Mario 64?
Both are overrated, the favor by fans today of the latter seems to revolve around sensationalism, like something about it being the first 3D game with a camera you can spin around the character which computers had since what the ST? Even if you focus on third person action games it was beat tot he punch, and I think PSX had some sims that did it. I suppose you could say first platform game to use it but that's not the misinfo that's spread about it, it's that Mari 64 invented stuff, in fact, I remember when Golden Eye on the N64 supposedly invented the ability to shoot at different parts of an enemies body, which was also done on computers. Maybe the first on console, though I think some 2.5D FPS game on PSX did it before but that may have been full body. Actually didn't Sega have a game that did that before Golden Eye?

Anyway point is, as games themselves, and having games before the N64 meaning I didn't grow up with it, same with the Gamecube, I think these gams are alright at best for their times, now? Pretty bad, at least if you play them on original hardware.

then games like Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin instead of Banjo and Diddy Kong Racing. Awful.
Banjo was already declining in interest pretty fast after Tooie and outside Dk64 GE, Rare had past their peak on the console. Starfox Adventures sold well in line with late N64 Rare with a favorite brand from that console seeing its first release on the gamecube and it didn't move the needle at all. I don't think games of either Banjo or DKR2 would have done much for the Gamecube. Nintendo needed to do some work themselves on that first-party and third-party wise instead of people thinking they needed to rely on Rare again which i don't think was going to be able to happen successfully twice. They didn't save the last few years of the N64. and barely moved the needle up front with the Gamecube. Didn't do much for the GBA either.
 

Soapbox Killer

Grand Nagus
Both Xbox and Gamecube had very solid libraries, possibly being equal but focused on different gameplay styles.


Metroid Prime / Resident Evil 4 / Fzero GX would give the slightest of edges to the GameCube but ask me tomorrow and I might swap it out with Xbox
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Which was on the PS2, where most games of that age rage were, negating that release in attracting more of that demographics, and devs catering to them, to the GameCube.
Who cares? It launched on the GC which according to who I was quoting said it had no M rated games.
More people remember and have bad PS2 games, most purchasers fromt he console even. most of the games you listed are niche, flopped, or barely sold even if they were not intended to be niche. No one had Suikoden 3 for example on average than half of the better selling shovelware. Shadow Hearts? Dark Cloud?



You guys keep forgetting about Starfox Adventures and MS letting them make GBA games.



Eternal Darkness wasn't on the best sellers list for US.


Both are overrated, the favor by fans today of the latter seems to revolve around sensationalism, like something about it being the first 3D game with a camera you can spin around the character which computers had since what the ST? Even if you focus on third person action games it was beat tot he punch, and I think PSX had some sims that did it. I suppose you could say first platform game to use it but that's not the misinfo that's spread about it, it's that Mari 64 invented stuff, in fact, I remember when Golden Eye on the N64 supposedly invented the ability to shoot at different parts of an enemies body, which was also done on computers. Maybe the first on console, though I think some 2.5D FPS game on PSX did it before but that may have been full body. Actually didn't Sega have a game that did that before Golden Eye?

Anyway point is, as games themselves, and having games before the N64 meaning I didn't grow up with it, same with the Gamecube, I think these gams are alright at best for their times, now? Pretty bad, at least if you play them on original hardware.


Banjo was already declining in interest pretty fast after Tooie and outside Dk64 GE, Rare had past their peak on the console. Starfox Adventures sold well in line with late N64 Rare with a favorite brand from that console seeing its first release on the gamecube and it didn't move the needle at all. I don't think games of either Banjo or DKR2 would have done much for the Gamecube. Nintendo needed to do some work themselves on that first-party and third-party wise instead of people thinking they needed to rely on Rare again which i don't think was going to be able to happen successfully twice. They didn't save the last few years of the N64. and barely moved the needle up front with the Gamecube. Didn't do much for the GBA either.
Who cares about sales in context to what I was saying when you quoted me?
 

Dane

Member
Eh? GC not only had horror games, they also had the best ones.

And like one per year, the PS2 was the main console for this, and even the Xbox had hits like Silent Hill and Fatal Frame that the GC missed, you may even put Doom 3 in as well.
 

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
Who cares? It launched on the GC which according to who I was quoting said it had no M rated games.

Who cares about sales in context to what I was saying when you quoted me?

You are the one who is confused about context, Danes first post was about Gamecube missing out on mature "best sellers"

Yes, and the more mature games were proportionally being the yearly best sellers as it stands today, GC missed that train.

You responded to this with an image of Eternal Darkness and he said this

One per year, meanwhile Xbox had many with the third party support they had, it doesn't need to be straight M rated, anything E-T rated but whose audience were more on the 17-21 or older could be missing on Gamecube.

Then you ended up causing your own perplexity by saying this

Eh? GC not only had horror games, they also had the best ones.


Which had you tilt the topic subject to horror games. But the whole point of Danes chain of posts was missing out on sales of mature games aimed for older audiences.

This is confirmed by him in his latest post as i type this

And like one per year, the PS2 was the main console for this, and even the Xbox had hits like Silent Hill and Fatal Frame that the GC missed, you may even put Doom 3 in as well.
 

Dane

Member
You are the one who is confused about context, Danes first post was about Gamecube missing out on mature "best sellers"



You responded to this with an image of Eternal Darkness and he said this



Then you ended up causing your own perplexity by saying this



Which had you tilt the topic subject to horror games. But the whole point of Danes chain of posts was missing out on sales of mature games aimed for older audiences.

This is confirmed by him in his latest post as i type this
Yes, that's what I'm trying to convey, games that are not rated M but whose main audience is at mature ages: Midnight Club 2 and 3, Burnout 3-Revenge, Tomb Raider Legend (for most of 2006), Fighting Games outside MK and SC2, 2K Sports and etc. For M Rated games it goes worse: for example Rockstar decided to redo the contract with Sony because they wanted to release GTA on Xbox, Eidos which dropped out from Gamecube early on returned mostly for Lego Star Wars and none of their M-rated games in this return were in the console.
 
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My perception of Gamecube was so off during it's run. I didn't pay attention to port comparisons or sales numbers and I absolutely loved it. Felt like a healthy ecosystem with tons of games, great graphics and impactful exclusive games. I also hear n64 was kind of a bust which makes even less sense to me. Everyone I knew owned an n64 and was obsessed with it.

Directly comparing the top 15-20 games on each system should indicate why PSX & PS2 won so handily in those generations, IMO. And I had all of them. Just saying, an anecdote about how all your buddies loved N64, it's great for you but I'm not sure how much it means overall.

A lot of this will come down to preference, and Nintendo has always had their forte when it comes to a certain kind of game... but overwhelmingly their variety has been limited when compared to Sony, especially in these particular eras.

edited...
 
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twerkouting

Banned
I chalk up the Gamecube thing to having a kiddy image compared to the other systems. Purple as it's main color didn't do any favors either I don't think, hence "purple lunchbox" jokes
Sorry going off on a tangent. I hadn't really considered this until you brought up this point. I definitely remember there was a huge backlash against Nintendo's kid friendly image that stuck with them from the time Sega started courting kids who were ready to "grow up" during the SNES/Genesis days that carried over to about the PS2/Xbox/GC era. Those entire 3 console generations, it was super passé in gaming to be considered "kid friendly."

Then the Wii and DS came around and appealed to casual adult audiences. Wii U was bad marketing. Now, people who've grown up with gaming in their lives are in their 40's, 50's, and 60's and have dropped all pretense about playing kid or adult oriented games. Old gamers don't have anything to prove (as far as asserting their being "grown up" as kid would construe proving maturity) and just play what they want.
 

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
Directly comparing the top 15-20 games on each system should indicate why PSX & PS2 won so handily in those generations, IMO. And I had all of them. Just saying, an anecdote about how all your buddies loved N64, it's great for you but I'm not sure how much it means overall.

A lot of this will come down to preference, and Nintendo has always had their forte when it comes to a certain kind of game... but overwhelmingly their variety has been limited when compared to Sony, especially in these particular eras.
Are you responding to another post? Because the one you quoted didn't talk about his buddies liking the N64 or comparing sales between N64 and PS1 or GameCube and PS2..
 
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Xbox and Gamecuve are two of my favourite consoles. (other being Dreamcast). In my opinion both of those consoles were better than the Ps2.

Xbox live was a literal game changer and Ps2 didn't have anything even remotely close until years later.

Gamecube has some of my favourite games of all time. Windwaker, Smash Bros Melee, Metroid Prime.
 
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Gamer79

Predicts the worst decade for Sony starting 2022
The gamecube suffered from long droughts of good software. Same as the n64.
 
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