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The Xbox One Reveal - A Tragic Play in Three Parts

ironcreed

Banned
Nice summary. It's like a train wreck that never quite stops, and these are the individuals in control:

 

Amir0x

Banned
Technically none of that was part of their reveal.

They showed some exciting things and this drm shit is all the board can talk about. : /

If you mean part of the actual 1 hour filmed presentation, then of course you're right. I'm using reveal for a catchall of all the info we received on the day of the presentation.

That said, they revealed other than that ->

NFL Deal for $400 Million
EA Sports Engine (which is just a multiplatform engine)
Quantum Break (with a comically bizarre video)
Snap
Halo TV with Spielberg
New Xbox Controller
Xbox One Design

It's a shame that this "drm shit" undermines what may have been some decent things. I think the new Xbox Controller seems rad, for example. Will buy for my PC when available. But this "drm shit" is also so bad that it by necessity obfuscates all this other stuff... it's that terrible.
 
Nice post Amorix.

The post you quoted at the end is amazing as well.
Seeing all the consumer guilt around here these days makes me want to vomit.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Ghaleon--

I think our own experience has taught us that, at times, MS can be a hydra. a beast of many heads and different brains, with disparate thoughts that, at times, contradict one-another before a consensus is finally reached. It honestly is no wonder that more concerning questions were raised than were answered last week.

Now, I will say this much - I still know some people within the company, and I truly do NOT envy the position they have been placed in by people in positions higher than their own. As such, I won't ever share Amirox's animosity, occasionally appropriate though it may be, as it is the decision of a a marked few that, at the end of the day, force the rest to toe the company line. Not only was this a failure on the part of MS's executive team, but from a marketing and PR perspective it was a blunder that very truly have cost them a great deal of goodwill amongst their staunchest supporters.
Oh, absolutely. In some ways this reminds me of what happened with Halo 4. A lot of really great people made a game that undercut the series they gathered to further. I sympathize with them greatly. It's the creative and marketing vision that is bankrupt, or at least at question, here.

The concerning nature of some of the directions they are taking with this machine are only half the story. The obfuscation of their greater message, mired in layers of double-speak and contradictory statements, IMO, is MORE concerning as, for the first time I can remember, it conveys a company with no clear idea of what the fuck it is doing.
Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I see the degree to which the company is stumbling over their messaging around the Xbox One and I less see a confused company, than one who is doing what you said - obfuscating what they are really doing. All of the questionable aspects of the system from a consumer standpoint are questionable because Microsoft hasn't been able to articulate the benefits of their decisions to consumers. So they're dancing around the topics with buzzwords like "the cloud" and such, promising that consumers will love what they bring to the system. But I see all this and think they simply don't want to come clean about what's really up. As was said in the OP, they're marching toward catering to publishers, and are interested in getting a cut into the used game markets. But they don't want to just come out and say that, since it's not a selling point to end users. But since they impact end users to such a large degree, they have to try and frame it somehow as a benefit. Not only are they struggling to do so, they can't even agree on the pitch.

Until they can articulate what the benefits of their system design decisions are to their would be customers, they're messaging, even if they get it straightened out, will be coming across as confusing and even contradictory.
 
Yea, the Xbone reveal has to be up there with some of the worst console reveals ever.

It may even turn out to be a great machine (for some) but the reveal was bungled, and it was even more shocking that noone at microsoft knew how to keep their answers straight.
 

REV 09

Member
What exactly was exciting about what they showed?
It's a new fucking Xbox!!! It's been over 7 years. As a gamer, seeing the box...seeing the refined controller and impressive Kinect. Seeing some of the unique multimedia functionality and seeing Forza 5. Hearing about multiple game projects to be revealed at e3...these are exciting times. It's been a long ass time since the 360 launched.

It's not like MS blew their whole load...the reveal was a short, for-tv intro. It's kinda like the MTV thing they had for the 360.

What's with all the negativity is all I'm saying?
 

RagnarokX

Member
Great write up. The anticonsumer draconian bullshit they've been claiming to be their vision for the future of gaming is certainly dire. They have no one but themselves to blame for the reaction, it's based on what they've said. Killing used games, requiring an internet connection at least every 24 hours, requiring Kinect and spying on you with it; it all came from them.



And it doesn't seem like something they can or want to back down from. Developers like EA clearly want this, and MS wants it. They'll most likely try to ignore these concerns and hope sales force gamers to conform. What's interesting is how Sony will pursue this. They too likely have a similar DRM scheme since MS is doing it and they need to keep on an even field with developers. It seems like Sony might have a less invasive form of it, though. Time will tell. We'll probably find out in 2 weeks.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member

Jesus H. Christ. Microsoft is freaking crazy then. Glad they have relaxed these policies, but they certainly need more relaxation. Hopefully removal of these policies.

Great post, Amir0x, didn't know that with each aspect we wanted an answer on, they never had a concise answer. Damn it.
 

REV 09

Member
*gives up, walks out of neoGAF, slams door*
You've got a big enough Gaf army for me to not care about drm stuff. I'm a pc gamer. I'm ok with always online. Don't care about used games. None of that stuff bothers me personally. Im excited about the games, the new box, and the new experiences.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
You've got a big enough Gaf army for me to not care about drm stuff. I'm a pc gamer. I'm ok with always online. Don't care about used games. None of that stuff bothers me personally. Im excited about the games, the new box, and the new experiences.

And there's nothing wrong with that.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
It's a new fucking Xbox!!! It's been over 7 years. As a gamer, seeing the box...seeing the refined controller and impressive Kinect. Seeing some of the unique multimedia functionality and seeing Forza 5. Hearing about multiple game projects to be revealed at e3...these are exciting times. It's been a long ass time since the 360 launched. What's with all the negativity is all I'm saying?

I could count the games on one hand. ONE HAND.

But you must have not seen what happened after the conference, which is what Amir0X tried to explain with this thread. Argh, whatever.
 

fart town usa

Gold Member
Without trying to sound like I'm attacking people or anyone in general,

Anyone defending this DRM rubbish is beyond me and borderline pathetic. I cannot begin to fathom putting up with such nonsense. I stopped buying capcom games on the PSN store because of the Final Fight DRM. I can't imagine having an entire console wired for similar practices, it's disgusting. It really is, that a company would be so bold and then proceed to be so vague.

DRM is bullshit through and through, that's something that everybody here should be able to agree upon.
 
It's a new fucking Xbox!!! It's been over 7 years. As a gamer, seeing the box...seeing the refined controller and impressive Kinect. Seeing some of the unique multimedia functionality and seeing Forza 5. Hearing about multiple game projects to be revealed at e3...these are exciting times. It's been a long ass time since the 360 launched.

It's not like MS blew their whole load...the reveal was a short, for-tv intro. It's kinda like the MTV thing they had for the 360.

What's with all the negativity is all I'm saying?

There's a lot of negativity because this forum is primarily concerned with "core gaming".

Seeing the "new Xbox" isn't something to be excited of in and of itself, we should judge that on exactly WHAT they decided to show; which is to say:

1. A box primarily designed to capture a broader audience of which gaming is a fraction of its design emphasis.

2. A box that is substantially inferior tech wise to its main competitor when it comes to gaming.

3. A box that features draconian anti-consumer DRM practices and does away with a long established history of used games and offline gaming.

4. Kinect and its UI focus has never been something that's been appealing to this board, for obvious reasons since it doesn't cater to the core gaming demographic and doesn't bring much to the table for gaming unless you're into dance and fitness games.

5. They hardly showed any exclusive games. Luckily this point can be resolved at E3, the rest cannot.

There was a LOT more positivity about previous Xbox reveals because they focused mostly on gaming and seemed to really be progressing that aspect rather than trying to divide their attention with a lot of useless stuff.

Why is the negativity unwarranted? It's completely justified and there's a reason why few are enthusiastic about the platform.
 

REV 09

Member
My view is that if you really care about the specs then you may as well just stick with pc...so given that I have a pc for that. What are consoles going to offer that is unique other than just better specs?

Moreover, I'm not convinced that these consoles can survive economically on just being hardcore gaming devices. If appealing to a broader spectrum equals a healthier industry then its ok for the casuals to get on the boat too. Everything that they show doesn't have to appeal to me...and that's ok.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
My view is that if you really care about the specs then you may as well just stick with pc...so given that I have a pc for that. What are consoles going to offer that is unique other than just better specs?

Moreover, I'm not convinced that these consoles can survive economically on just being hardcore gaming devices. If appealing to a broader spectrum equals a healthier industry then its ok for the casuals to get on the boat too. Everything that they show doesn't have to appeal to me...and that's ok.

Ehh, exclusive, first-party games? Not to sound douche-y but that's what keeps me going to consoles.
 

Terrell

Member
I have to hope that they are still casting nets here to see exactly how far they can go. I have to hope that's the case. Otherwise, why would they have backed off even as much as they did (see: buttocks on a train)? Something is getting through to them, no?

Dude, I'm a Nintendo fan, I know how much hope gets me. I won't fault you for having it, though.

Their myriad answers which were then shrouded in a "wait til E3" veil is textbook 1950s soap opera.

"Is Phil Harrison saying too much and about to expose his co-worker's dirty secrets?" *dramatic pipe organ sounds*

"Will Major Nelson be able to distract the crowd long enough to hide the evidence or will they all be exposed at the big E3 party? *dramatic pipe organ sounds*

"And will Don Mattrick be too pre-occupied to find out that Sony is having an affair with their marketshare?" *dramatic pipe organ sounds*

.... sorry, I don't have to tune in next time, I know how this plays out.

They're muddling the message so they can pretend they're addressing the concerns while not giving a concise answer and stalling for time until their games are revealed, hoping that it will be distracting enough for people not to care. And if people do still care? "We're here to talk about the games" and will continue to side-step around the discussion until they think no one is paying attention anymore.
 

Replicant

Member
Without trying to sound like I'm attacking people or anyone in general,

Anyone defending this DRM rubbish is beyond me and borderline pathetic. I cannot begin to fathom putting up with such nonsense. I stopped buying capcom games on the PSN store because of the Final Fight DRM. I can't imagine having an entire console wired for similar practices, it's disgusting. It really is, that a company would be so bold and then proceed to be so vague.

DRM is bullshit through and through, that's something that everybody here should be able to agree upon.

Same here. I find it hard to see anyone defending DRM as anything but corporate shill since the advantage to consumers is miniscule to non-existent.

I too boycott all Capcom digital games since Final Fight fiasco. I was glad PSN did the right thing and refunded my money once I found out about it.
 
My view is that if you really care about the specs then you may as well just stick with pc...so given that I have a pc for that. What are consoles going to offer that is unique other than just better specs?

Moreover, I'm not convinced that these consoles can survive economically on just being hardcore gaming devices. If appealing to a broader spectrum equals a healthier industry then its ok for the casuals to get on the boat too. Everything that they show doesn't have to appeal to me...and that's ok.

This is such a disingenuous argument.

These consoles are aimed at roughly the same price point, and should be offering the most power that they can for a relatively affordable price and reasonable power footprint.

I'm not going to splurge a ton of money on a gaming PC, even though it can offer the best graphics. Games aren't designed primarily with high-end PCs in mind - they are going to simply be ported from engines that are targeting console hardware. Which is why it's incredibly important for the console baseline to be high, so both PC users AND console gamers can reap the benefits. PS4 having 50%+ more GPU power, much better memory architecture and bandwidth is now going to see multiplatform engines compromise what they otherwise could target - impacting console and PC gamers at the same time.

If power doesn't matter because you already own a gaming PC, then does it not matter to you that exclusive Xbox games aren't going to look anywhere near as good as they could, because Microsoft decided it was better to blow the budget on Kinect and ensuring that they had 3 GB of memory that could be allocated for non-gaming functions?

Also, no one is saying to forgo entertainment features...PS4 will have those features too, but it's not sacrificing its system design for gaming in order to do so.
 

shinnn

Member
GAF: I want exclusives
MS: 15 new exclusives!

GAF: I want new IPS
MS: 8 new IPS!

GAF: No Kinect crap
MS: not a single Kinect game showed!

GAF: Fuck you MS. I want whatever Sony throw at me! another Killzone wooot! Another Infamous woot! Knack is so cool, that guy I never seen before is a genius! woot!
 
GAF: I want exclusives
MS: 15 new exclusives!

GAF: I want new IPS
MS: 8 new IPS!

GAF: No Kinect crap
MS: not a single Kinect game showed!

GAF: Fuck you MS. I want whatever Sony throw at me! another Killzone wooot! Another Infamous woot! Knack is so cool, that guy I never seen before is a genius! woot!

Because this thread is about the paucity of games announced for the XBone.
 

Hawk269

Member
Do we need yet another one of these threads?

We know MS fucked up with their presentation, especially when you consider that all of us here are gamers and it was not geared to gamers. Yes, they fucked up by not being clear on some of the stuff. We all know this, do we really need it spelled out one more time?

Why don't we wait for E3 to see if MS is truly out of their mind???
 

PG2G

Member
So, dumb question. What is the reason they would need to continuously authenticate licenses? I can't really think of a scenario it should need to do more than a first time authentication (on the primary console), unless it is there solely to support transfer of ownership?
 
GAF: I want exclusives
MS: 15 new exclusives!

GAF: I want new IPS
MS: 8 new IPS!

GAF: No Kinect crap
MS: not a single Kinect game showed!

GAF: Fuck you MS. I want whatever Sony throw at me! another Killzone wooot! Another Infamous woot! Knack is so cool, that guy I never seen before is a genius! woot!
 

mr jones

Ethnicity is not a race!
What is both sad and hilarious about the whole thing, is this:

All of this "rage" means nothing. NOTHING. If the games are there, folks will buy the system in droves. If people see great graphics, if they see sequels to their favorite games being shown, and see some cool features that might not be on competing consoles, they're going to buy the system. They WILL buy it.

They're current system sold MILLIONS upon MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of units.

Despite hundreds of thousands of Xbox consoles dying from manufacturing defects, they've sold millions of units.

Despite their weird point-to-real world currency system, they've sold millions of units.

Despite charging ridiculous amounts of money for their add-on HDD (which is pretty much mandatory), they've sold millions of units.

Despite being THE ONLY GAMING CONSOLE in the home entertainment console race to not only charge money to play against other players online, but to put other services that EVERY OTHER ONLINE DEVICE allows you to use for free, behind a paywall, they've still sold millions of units.

If the games are there, people will buy it.
 

krioto

Member
GAF: I want exclusives
MS: 15 new exclusives!

GAF: I want new IPS
MS: 8 new IPS!

GAF: No Kinect crap
MS: not a single Kinect game showed!

GAF: Fuck you MS. I want whatever Sony throw at me! another Killzone wooot! Another Infamous woot! Knack is so cool, that guy I never seen before is a genius! woot!

how to expose oneself as a bit of a tit in one post....
 
GAF: I want exclusives
MS: 15 new exclusives!

GAF: I want new IPS
MS: 8 new IPS!

GAF: No Kinect crap
MS: not a single Kinect game showed!

GAF: Fuck you MS. I want whatever Sony throw at me! another Killzone wooot! Another Infamous woot! Knack is so cool, that guy I never seen before is a genius! woot!
What does this have to do with anything in the thread?
 
GAF: I want exclusives
MS: 15 new exclusives!

GAF: I want new IPS
MS: 8 new IPS!

GAF: No Kinect crap
MS: not a single Kinect game showed!

GAF: Fuck you MS. I want whatever Sony throw at me! another Killzone wooot! Another Infamous woot! Knack is so cool, that guy I never seen before is a genius! woot!

GAF: I want to sell and buy used games
MS: Fuck you GAF. I want whatever EA throws at me. Another DRM system! another fee woot! Cloud processing is so cool, that server I never seen before is genius! Woot!
 

Hawk269

Member
What is both sad and hilarious about the whole thing, is this:

All of this "rage" means nothing. NOTHING. If the games are there, folks will buy the system in droves. If people see great graphics, if they see sequels to their favorite games being shown, and see some cool features that might not be on competing consoles, they're going to buy the system. They WILL buy it.

They're current system sold MILLIONS upon MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of units.

Despite hundreds of thousands of Xbox consoles dying from manufacturing defects, they've sold millions of units.

Despite their weird point-to-real world currency system, they've sold millions of units.

Despite charging ridiculous amounts of money for their add-on HDD (which is pretty much mandatory), they've sold millions of units.

Despite being THE ONLY GAMING CONSOLE in the home entertainment console race to not only charge money to play against other players online, but to put other services that EVERY OTHER ONLINE DEVICE allows you to use for free, behind a paywall, they've still sold millions of units.

If the games are there, people will buy it.

Great post man. I don't a lot of people here get it. They have over 40million paying Xbox Live players currently on the 360, yet people are bitching it should all be free. If you are in business or even remotely clued into making money, why would you walk away from 40+million paying customers?

All of this bullshit we have been hearing and the number of new posts saying the same shit over and over again. At the end of the day, if the games are there and the services seem compelling enough, people will buy it regardless of the used game scenario or not.

As I mentioned earlier, E3 will be the deciding factor for many and I think going on and on and creating so many doom and gloom threads is pointless until E3. If MS does not bring it and all they show are Kinect 2.0 games and shit no gamer wants then we can be in a position to say shit. But until then and also when they explain all the used games, Drm and cloud stuff we are all clueless as to what they are actually planning.
 
If the games are there, people will buy it.
The original Xbox was *all* about the games, had a better mix of hardware and dev support at a better price and the ONLY online system worth a damn, without competition that was even close. They were up against an arrogant Sony who advised patience and a second job. Xbox's early start with these advantages got people to invest in the platform, and those investments became an ecosystem lockdown, even after the competition got its act together.

I don't see any of those advantages here. *If* the bone had backwards compatibility they'd have two advantages, but really, all they have is brand loyalty and inertia. At this moment in time its like the 2006 Microsoft and Sony have completely flipped roles.

Ecosystem lockin is a huge effect, and part of the reason I'm far more cautious about these platforms, and focusing my attention on the services and restrictions more than on the games.
 
Reading Amir0x's OP makes me wonder something I'd been wondering for a while:

why the hell are tech/games writers so awful at analogies, metaphors, and lay on the false equivalences? That Venture Beat article made my head hurt.
 

shinnn

Member
GAF: I want to sell and buy used games
MS: Fuck you GAF. I want whatever EA throws at me. Another DRM system! another fee woot! Cloud processing is so cool, that server I never seen before is genius! Woot!

GAF: I want to sell and buy used games
MS: We will support used games. You will be able to sell your games. More details later

GAF: Fuck you. I never give a shit about the online passes on PS3 games, and I fucking loved the day one digital sales on PS3! But for some reason I hate you because you are doing things that already happen!

Sony: We bought Gaikai
GAF: I love you Sony! You are so good! I have no idea what you will do with Gaikai but I already loved it!

MS: Cloud is the future dude
GAF: You liar!
 
You've got a big enough Gaf army for me to not care about drm stuff. I'm a pc gamer. I'm ok with always online. Don't care about used games. None of that stuff bothers me personally. Im excited about the games, the new box, and the new experiences.

So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause.
 

beast786

Member
GAF: I want exclusives
MS: 15 new exclusives!

GAF: I want new IPS
MS: 8 new IPS!

GAF: No Kinect crap
MS: not a single Kinect game showed!

GAF: Fuck you MS. I want whatever Sony throw at me! another Killzone wooot! Another Infamous woot! Knack is so cool, that guy I never seen before is a genius! woot!

you forgot

One billion dollars
300k servers
40x xbox360 powers via cloud majic
2 exclusive shown during reveal
 

Nags

Banned
I don't think we have seen such a clamoring in the those legitimately invested into this industry like we have today; on the heels of possibly the most disruptive paradigm shift.

Just to realize that games have been a huge part of peoples lives for over 30 years, and here we are, 3 generations privy to the hobby. Lives dedicated to creation, appreciation and deduction of the cogs in place... and more everyday.
This medium has grown, visual arts, computer science, music, literature, theater, dance and cinema and all live here.

No matter what happens, games are too big to die. Big names come and go, those things are fleeting, but what remains is the passion to continue to create wonderful expressions, because that's what we are here to do. Create.

Please be excited.
 
GAF: Fuck you. I never give a shit about the online passes on PS3 games, and I fucking loved the day one digital sales on PS3! But for some reason I hate you because you are doing things that already happen!

Sony: We bought Gaikai
GAF: I love you Sony! You are so good! I have no idea what you will do with Gaikai but I already loved it!
 

Arkos

Nose how to spell and rede to
Aww nice summary but I thought you were going to really relate it to a play.

Act I: Hype

People are excited for the Xbone, but bad omens abound. Some shrug the negative rumors off as fanboy hate, and Microsoft declares its noble intentions

Act II: Reveal

The tragic MS falls into the trap we all saw coming, and plays right into its customers' worst fears.

Act III: Fallout

MS stands by its policies, whether out of delusion or hubris, has an underwhelming E3 and ultimately fails upon launch, but not before doing almost irreparable damage to the rest of the industry. Fortinbras makes a speech
 

ReaperXL7

Member
let's cast some characters

who gets to play Phil Harrison?

Its funny because it was not until Harrison left that Sony finally started getting its shit back together. now that hes with Microsoft hes creating giant fuck ups for them. Why do these companies put this man in a situation to cause these problems in the first place.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Bravo Amirox.

You just summed up an incredibly confused situation.


GAF: I want exclusives
MS: 15 new exclusives!

GAF: I want new IPS
MS: 8 new IPS!

GAF: No Kinect crap
MS: not a single Kinect game showed!

GAF: Fuck you MS. I want whatever Sony throw at me! another Killzone wooot! Another Infamous woot! Knack is so cool, that guy I never seen before is a genius! woot!

GAF: I want to sell and buy used games
MS: We will support used games. You will be able to sell your games. More details later

GAF: Fuck you. I never give a shit about the online passes on PS3 games, and I fucking loved the day one digital sales on PS3! But for some reason I hate you because you are doing things that already happen!

Sony: We bought Gaikai
GAF: I love you Sony! You are so good! I have no idea what you will do with Gaikai but I already loved it!

MS: Cloud is the future dude
GAF: You liar!

Gross.
 

mr jones

Ethnicity is not a race!
The original Xbox was *all* about the games, had a better mix of hardware and dev support at a better price and the ONLY online system worth a damn, without competition that was even close. They were up against an arrogant Sony who advised patience and a second job. Xbox's early start with these advantages got people to invest in the platform, and those investments became an ecosystem lockdown, even after the competition got its act together.

I don't see any of those advantages here. *If* the bone had backwards compatibility they'd have two advantages, but really, all they have is brand loyalty and inertia. At this moment in time its like the 2006 Microsoft and Sony have completely flipped roles.

Ecosystem lockin is a huge effect, and part of the reason I'm far more cautious about these platforms, and focusing my attention on the services and restrictions more than on the games.

The bolded made me chuckle.


We could go back and forth about the how it all started. Let's keep in mind despite charging five hundred and ninety-nine dollars during launch, gutting out PS2 and Linux compatibility, creating maybe the most useless environment ever with PS Home (seriously, WHAT was the point???), having server downtime that lasted days, compromising millions of user's personal information through shortsightedness in their software design, and tens of thousands of units dying from YLOD, folks bought many, many millions of Playstation 3 systems.

We won't talk about the behemoth that was the Wii. That shit's ridiculous. Nintendo should give masterclasses in marketing for how brilliantly they presented that toy.

My point doesn't waver. If the games are there, systems will sell. Despite any missteps in PR-speak, hardware/software issues, or anti-consumer practices.
 
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