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There is an audience of women that strangely, nobody seems to aim at

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
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I'll post this stat from Sony again, since we are on the new page. I think people need to be reminded that more women are playing current AAA games than many here realize.



Certainly no one here thinks 41% of all PS4 and PS5 owners are just playing The Sims on their console. Clearly.......they are playing many of the same games that us men are playing.
 
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Bragr

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You aren't understanding what I'm saying. I didn't say the Animal Crossing gamers love playing Assassins Creed. I'm saying female gamers aren't limited to ONLY playing Animal Crossing type games. They "ALSO" play games like Assassins Creed, Uncharted, Mass Effect, Fall Out, etc. Sony has already talked about this fact earlier this year with the games they make and have on the PS4\PS5.

To me, it sounds like some of yall are speaking about a niche audience of female gamers that like "specific" games like The Sims and Animal Crossing. If that's the case, then we all need to be specific with whom we are speaking about. Because half the posts in this thread sound like Looney bin crazy people who have never spoken to female gamers in their lives and only live in their basements.
Of course girls play Assassins Creed, I never said anything about that. Did you read the OP? This thread is specifically about the market of girls that only play a few games like The Sims or Animal Crossing, not about girls in general. Girls have been playing all sorts of games forever.
 

LQX

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Getting into Animal Crossing and by extension Strardew Valley as sort of opened my eyes to how huge and even hardcore female gamers are. Hell, my sister was never a gamer but bought a Switch to play Animal Crossing and now she has hundreds of hours in it.
 
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mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
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Of course girls play Assassins Creed, I never said anything about that. Did you read the OP? This thread is specifically about the market of girls that only play a few games like The Sims or Animal Crossing, not about girls in general. Girls have been playing all sorts of games forever.

That niche market isn't big enough for most AAA devs to make games for them. Thread solved!
 

Kataploom

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I don't have numbers but Nintendo games in general seem to vibe with a lot of women. So the question then becomes, why do more developers not make Nintendo type games? It's simply because they aren't as good at it. And because developers are overwhelmingly male and they prefer to do shootybang stuff.
I can relate, my gf was a PS player back in the PS1 days, now she's very happy with her Switch, my sister also plays my Switch a lot, other games they're both interested in are indies... I see women in average are more gameplay, art and explicit creativity driven more than men in average so they get more interested in those experiences.
 

Vaelka

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Japan does this really well with their interactive novels.

I think that Eastern games just in general do a way better job at appealing to women and the statistics prove that when you look at the most popular games with women with few exceptions.

I'll post this stat from Sony again, since we are on the new page. I think people need to be reminded that more women are playing current AAA games than many here realize.



Certainly no one here thinks 41% of all PS4 and PS5 owners are just playing The Sims on their console. Clearly.......they are playing many of the same games that us men are playing.

I am wondering exactly how this is calculated.
Like is it just who bought the console or if they live in a household with one already and have an account on it?
 
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mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
May 24, 2005
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Japan does this really well with their interactive novels.

I think that Eastern games just in general do a way better job at appealing to women and the statistics prove that when you look at the most popular games with women with few exceptions.



I am wondering exactly how this is calculated.
Like is it just who bought the console or if they live in a household with one already and have an account on it?

If I had to guess, it's probably based on what gender the person is of the PSN account name.
 

WitchHunter

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"So what remains if the context has no bias?" it is impossible, or you would be talking about an environmental "blank slate" which doesn't exist anymore than a genetic "blank slate".
There is absolutely no proof that woman are or have ever been "coded to care for children", since for example in matrilinear or matriarch societies, or even in some close animal mammals species, it is not the case. Some female spiders, actually eat their eggs if they're unsatisfied or can't care for keeping the eggs, in some other arachnid species, the female flees when she's laid then leaving the males to protect and care for the offspring.
Of course it is impossible, but in order to hypothetically examine the underlying parts you have to remove certain parts/simplify the "equation".

And of course they are "coded" since they have milk, only they can bear a child. Infants can't care for themselves, the human mother must have an instinct (code?) to care/feed the baby, otherwise the baby dies. In the first I don't know how many months the baby cannot even walk, since the head is much larger/heavier than any other body parts and the muscular structure is weak. If women are not coded for this behaviour we would've died out long time ago. Can we agree on this?

Of course the terms like coded might have totally different meaning for the expert, I only have a general understanding of this topic. You seem to be well versed, as far as I can deduce. So it's up to you whether to interpret them literally.

You talk about testosterone heavy males and aggressiveness, but nothing in nature makes these males prone to dominate, this is a myth that only exists in cultural depictions of barbarians, tribes or kingdom but not in any actual historical accounts nor even in zoology: for example amongst gorillas (and this is funny since Peterson cited this example from the field of ethology, the study of animal behavior), a male who is too agressive or violent and attempts to take leadership, will very quickly see his genitals ripped or his head bashed by other gorillas because of that, while leadership, which is in fact not singular since, unlike what human naturalists pseudo-scientists have projected on animals, there's never just one "alpha" or even strictly male ones amongst a pack, but several "alphas" that may be male or female that will serve as "leader" in a task or another whether it's hunting, guardkeeping, nurturing, collecting, caring etc...in the social structure.

In human societies, testosterones is nothing to adaptability and intelligence which rarely maps to a particular restricted set of arbitrary values or attitude, and even if advantages profiles in a said society, this says more about how this particular structure or society is set since valued traits or principles would be totally different in another society. What you are describing is an extremely limited derivation from our current conjecture in which, instead of pushing women into deconstructing and emancipating individually through the current societies required normative competitive traits and attitudes (as it was originally the discourse of DeBeauvoir's feminist), we've switched into wanting to defeat legitimately criticisable (because inefficient or suboptimal) "male" attitudes without proposing or rather honestly responsibilising women in the same pursuit, which led to a destructive, counter-productive contradictory neo-feminist mouvement that can only be met with rejection and regression from either "sides" of the debate.
Okay, okay. So then, what's you take on this debate? Why are there more male directors, entrepreneurs, CEOs? Is this normal? Does this needs to be fixed? Is this the result of the male centric conditioning of our society? And if so what's the good way to approach and/or eliminate it?
 

Bragr

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Of course it is impossible, but in order to hypothetically examine the underlying parts you have to remove certain parts/simplify the "equation".

And of course they are "coded" since they have milk, only they can bear a child. Infants can't care for themselves, the human mother must have an instinct (code?) to care/feed the baby, otherwise the baby dies. In the first I don't know how many months the baby cannot even walk, since the head is much larger/heavier than any other body parts and the muscular structure is weak. If women are not coded for this behaviour we would've died out long time ago. Can we agree on this?

Of course the terms like coded might have totally different meaning for the expert, I only have a general understanding of this topic. You seem to be well versed, as far as I can deduce. So it's up to you whether to interpret them literally.


Okay, okay. So then, what's you take on this debate? Why are there more male directors, entrepreneurs, CEOs? Is this normal? Does this needs to be fixed? Is this the result of the male centric conditioning of our society? And if so what's the good way to approach and/or eliminate it?
What a fuck are you guys talking about.
 

Notabueno

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Of course it is impossible, but in order to hypothetically examine the underlying parts you have to remove certain parts/simplify the "equation".

And of course they are "coded" since they have milk, only they can bear a child. Infants can't care for themselves, the human mother must have an instinct (code?) to care/feed the baby, otherwise the baby dies. In the first I don't know how many months the baby cannot even walk, since the head is much larger/heavier than any other body parts and the muscular structure is weak. If women are not coded for this behaviour we would've died out long time ago. Can we agree on this?

Of course the terms like coded might have totally different meaning for the expert, I only have a general understanding of this topic. You seem to be well versed, as far as I can deduce. So it's up to you whether to interpret them literally.

Okay, okay. So then, what's you take on this debate? Why are there more male directors, entrepreneurs, CEOs? Is this normal? Does this needs to be fixed? Is this the result of the male centric conditioning of our society? And if so what's the good way to approach and/or eliminate it?
Well these "information" are not coded as literally or functionally as you describe, but in a much more primordial and mechanic way. For example when baby sea turtles are born, nothing in their genetic tells them they have to rush to the ocean not to get eaten by seagulls, rather is encoded that when their nostrils detect ionised water particule in the air they roughly follow it to join their habitat, but we don't know if the notion of danger and therefor rushing is encoded and if they can hear and want to join their parent calling in the direction of the sea.

The same way, caring for offspring is encoded both in males and females at a very root level, but the way even the instinct is enacted or configuring is highly dependant on emergent first (since we were "born" out of nature), environmental, then social and finally societal, in ways that highly varies, again depending on culture and civilisation. In some africans tribes for example, it is consider that the mother bearing the child (which is a determined function unlike the attitude) is too vulnerable or fragilised by birthing to care for the baby, which males are therefor in charge of, until comes the time for "education".

In some ancient societies, in fact pretty much like lions, men having a bigger mass and taler size (although a lower muscle to fat ratio than women), where in charge of keeping the territory, harvesting and educating the child while female who were higher in muscle ratio, but also shorter in size, and therefor had better agility and stealth, were in charge of hunting, charting and trading.

So my answer to the last question is still the three points above as to why there are more male "leaders", put simply men are conditioned to pursue external endeavors in order to valuate themselves and actively mate, while women are conditioned to pursue "internal" as in social, familial, sexual endeavour in order to valuate themselves and passively attract.

BUT the problem is those norms are contradictory with the individualistic nature of human, and that's the problem of normative paradigm which always evolve, progress and sometimes regress when stalling: those norms are based on obsolete, sometimes centuries old observations then categorisation of humans, those categorisations transforming into conditioning, and those conditioning orienting individuals in lots of alienating, contradictory and frustrating ways, from which the individual responsibility is to emancipate and become the true unique individual they are. These true individual don't map on the norm, especially restrictive ones, one of them being gender (not be confused with sexes).

It's a lot more complex of course but all in all, in an ideal -meritocratic- and hierarchical society which we're far from, the best leaders amongst all population categories should be represented statistically in ways that proportionally match the population ie. there should be 50/50 men and women, but not by force or correction otherwise it's not meritocratic, neither should there not be 50/50 which is the sign of suboptimal discriminatory society, but by forces of individual emancipation on one hand (which is what feminism defended until it was corrupted by wokes into neo-feminism) and societies responsibilities (in fighting barriers, differential treatment, biased projections and conditioning or straight up discrimination). The difficulty nowadays is the first part, which in turns discredits or weakens the second, which in turn makes emancipation even harder or twisted, and so on. Overall, it's a hundreds time more complex, so much so that outside of the few occasional geniuses, the whole machine progresses very slowly and sometimes regresses or crashes.
 
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Tams

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According to Jordan Peterson: In company hierarchical structures you need lots of aggressiveness and assertiveness to pissmark your place. And women are usually low on these traits. Hence there are very few female designers/directors.

There are a shitton of Jordan Peterson lectures online about differences between men & women behaviour in corporate space and they perfectly outline the cause of this disparity.
Yeah, but even bring up Peterson's name in many places and expect to get a pile on. The 'woke' lot detest him.
 

Virt McPolygon

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Japan does. At least indie devs. My gf has been playing Sakuna pretty regularly for a month ever since I bought it. Sure it's got rice farm sim elements, but also some dungeon action gameplay. It's more engaging than the previous games she'd play like Animal Crossing. It's probably the best gateway action game I've seen to be honest.
 

YOU PC BRO?!

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A lot of crazy stats being thrown around here. Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to convince me that more than 1 in every 10 ps5 or Series consoles consoles sold to date was purchased by a woman for that woman. By the way some of you talk its like that number is 40% - 50%. That's just nonsense. Have you tried jumping in a chat lobby at all? I could play some games for months and never hear a single female voice or see a girly gamertag. We have all seen the stats that say women play 40% - 50% of games but that's almost exclusively mobile and its just not the same AAA that most of us associate the term 'gamer' with.

Personally I'd love to see stats on time played in games split by gender. I'd love to know how some of these numbers that show lots of female gamers are derived. I don't expect that we will ever see the calculations behind these statistics as that would ruin the obvious narrative these companies pushing inclusivity are wanting to portray.
 
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ZywyPL

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The thing is, that audience is a HUGE hit or miss tho, so no wonder nobody purposely chases is. There's Sims, ok, there's Candy Crush, ok, Animal Crossing. ok, but those (successful) titles happen once few years, but the very moment those games would become unavailable (for whatever reasons) that audience won't go out searching for something new to play, rather for a a completely new activity, like books, TV series etc.
 

Swoopsail

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Man, let's be real. In these dark hours, we just need Maxis back from the grave (and out from EA's grubby hands). They had balls to make games that would become their own genres; such an undervalued company.
 

RafterXL

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So you don't know alot of woman gamers then. That's ALL that means and literally NOTHING else.

I really don't understand why the takes in this thread are weird in this way. 😂 What are you people? A bunch of nerds that never talked to a woman before? Why are you acting like women only play games where you manage or something? They play Zelda, they play Mario, dark souls, monster hunter, they play any game there is, stop being this stupid. 😂
You don't know any of that because you act and think exactly how you're writing. With lmao
Can we fuck off with this nonsese that men and women enjoy the same things? Sure, there are outliers for everything, but we literally just had a huge ass report that counters the shit out of the idea that we all just like the same games.

That's the thing! Women ARE playing games that us "men" would consider AAA. They aren't just playing Animal Crossing. Why is everyone acting as if that's mainly what the games women play? The OP is just dead WRONG!
Because it's true? The women who play the games you are talking about are the exception that proves the rule.

270,000 gamers surveyed, read it and weep. Women and men aren't the same, they don't like the same games and it's been proven:


 
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WitchHunter

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A lot of crazy stats being thrown around here. Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to convince me that more than 1 in every 10 ps5 or Series consoles consoles sold to date was purchased by a woman for that woman. By the way some of you talk its like that number is 40% - 50%. That's just nonsense. Have you tried jumping in a chat lobby at all?
Maybe they don't want to expose themselves, knowing what the outcome will be when a female voice pops up amongst young hormone monkeys.
 
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JumpMan1981

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“They say casual female gamers don’t need a console, but after seeing these figures, we’d really like to reconsider that and the true value of console gaming.” - Satoru Iwata in 2013, looking at how many women bought Animal Crossing: New Leaf.

"I have my own personal way of determining how successful a game can be with the expanded audience, I call it the wife-o-meter............. As I was watching my friends and my wife, I thought maybe, if we can find a way to interest them, turn them into game players, then we can expand the userbase." - Shigeru Miyamoto.

"The Sims was predominantly female -- 55 or 60 percent. For a lot of them, it was the only game they played." - Will Wright.

I am not trying to say that there are girl games and boy games. When you are a gamer, you play whatever. But girls and guys generally like different things. I get the sense that people don't want to admit it or talk about it because it can devolve into some sort of sexism.

There is a MASSIVE audience of women that likes to play games but doesn't give a shit about Call of Duty and FIFA. As a result, they don't play many console games but stick to mobile games that have a lot of games that cater to the general female audience better.

Once in a blue moon, you have games like The Sims or Animal Crossing, who gets this and hones in on those audiences, but I feel like it's a strange thing to see so much of the industry completely ignoring this huge audience. Every triple-A studio seems hellbent on making violent action-adventure games, you would think there would be more studious trying to capitalize on this market. You are talking millions and millions of women who play fashion games on a mobile phone, yet never discovered that console and PC gaming is better, because nobody aims at them.

Why aren't more studios aiming at them?

I think more studios aren't aiming at them since most studios simply don't know how to make games that "connect".

What I personally think most AAA studios do now is create story driven games that use FPS or Third Person shooting or combat with a bit of exploration and a dash of problem solving. The controls are generally very similar the way the engine works is similar. The combat is similar. Spider-Man, God of War, Horizon and Ghost of Tsushima are great games, for me, but mechanically they are not all that different from each other. Animal Crossing on the other hand is just a completely different concept of what a game is entirely.

We have too much of the videogame world, especially at AAA level, that is way too focused on storytelling and a big problem I would say is that people like my wife would rather spend 10 hours watching a limited Netflix series with a good story than invest 40 to 50 in hours in a game that is maybe 5% story cutscenes etc and the rest is learning how to shoot bows and take down robot monsters and shit.

I think people look at other cultural properties that really massively connect with women and think that maybe it's just as simple as putting that kind of coat of paint on a videogame and it'll work. That's a faulty assumption as games are not quite the same as books and movies. Deathloop, for example, could be a pretty decent 2.5 hour movie or maybe even a 7 hour limited series. As a game though it's, what, 17 to 20 hours? There's more to it than just story.

Clearly games like The Sims and Animal Crossing are showing the way but a lot of the big developers are still trying to make blockbuster movies with audience controlled combat and shooting. Maybe that does not appeal to women as much.
 

JumpMan1981

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Shit seems all of the games I've played recently have been a female protagonist, but they'd be no different with a male instead. More women are attracted to casual gameplay than men. It's just how it is. That's why there are so many playing mobile games compared to console and pc.

I feel like this is true to some degree. A lot of posts here focusing on story but the reality of any game is that for a large portion of time spent the player will be engaging with gameplay and not story/character. Once you really get going with Returnal, for example, the nature of the protagonist is really irrelevant as you focus on dodging and jumping and what weapons and upgrades are good etc etc.

So if we looked at Twilight or Sex and the City or 50 Shades or even musicals like Mama Mia and asked "how can we create a video game that has this kind of cultural impact" then for sure that game will not be a AAA open world action adventure. When the videogame industry tries to do this they just think "ok so the protagonist will be female" and then do what they know how to do with gameplay and get the writers to deal with the rest.

I think a well marketed game with a female protagonist could totally convince loads of women to buy the game but I would be willing to bet that plenty of them would be put off by the actual gameplay. Kind of like putting a traditionally "girly" cover on a book but the story inside is just more appealing to males.
 

JumpMan1981

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That's the thing! Women ARE playing games that us "men" would consider AAA. They aren't just playing Animal Crossing. Why is everyone acting as if that's mainly what the games women play? The OP is just dead WRONG!

Why do you care so much about this insistence that the OP is wrong?

The OP is totally correct that the videogame industry doesn't seem to produce too many games that connect with women in the same way as other media does. There are countless examples of movies, books and music that have an absolutely massive cultural impact with women.

Sure maybe YOU know a woman or two who loved Robocop and Terminator movies but in a much broader sense there are different genres and styles that appeal to different demographics. For the most part the gaming industry tends to only have a few examples that are massive hits with the ladies. Animal Crossing and the Sims being two such examples.

I don't understand what having a hissy fit over this fact is contributing to the conversation. Yes, it's great that you know some women who really enjoyed Gravity Rush but the OP is really talking about appeal on a much larger scale.
 

JumpMan1981

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I'll post this stat from Sony again, since we are on the new page. I think people need to be reminded that more women are playing current AAA games than many here realize.



Certainly no one here thinks 41% of all PS4 and PS5 owners are just playing The Sims on their console. Clearly.......they are playing many of the same games that us men are playing.

Are they?

PS4 sold 116 million units. So that's approximately 47.56 million female console owners, yes?
Horizon Zero Dawn has sold just over 10 million copies.

So less than 1 in 10 PS4 owners were playing the game to begin with.

You are fixated on the idea that nobody should ever say that some games might appeal more to women than others. That just seems like a pointless argument.
 

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
May 24, 2005
47,727
14,838
2,000
A lot of crazy stats being thrown around here. Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to convince me that more than 1 in every 10 ps5 or Series consoles consoles sold to date was purchased by a woman for that woman. By the way some of you talk its like that number is 40% - 50%. That's just nonsense. Have you tried jumping in a chat lobby at all? I could play some games for months and never hear a single female voice or see a girly gamertag. We have all seen the stats that say women play 40% - 50% of games but that's almost exclusively mobile and its just not the same AAA that most of us associate the term 'gamer' with.

Personally I'd love to see stats on time played in games split by gender. I'd love to know how some of these numbers that show lots of female gamers are derived. I don't expect that we will ever see the calculations behind these statistics as that would ruin the obvious narrative these companies pushing inclusivity are wanting to portray.

So forget facts, but lets measure how many women play videogames based on your personal experience in chat lobbies? You can't be serious. I let you in on a little secert. Many female gamers don't like to join lobbies due to the harassment that they receive. Many just turn their mics off. But if you want to keep pushing your anti-inclusion narrative, go ahead.

Can we fuck off with this nonsese that men and women enjoy the same things? Sure, there are outliers for everything, but we literally just had a huge ass report that counters the shit out of the idea that we all just like the same games.


Because it's true? The women who play the games you are talking about are the exception that proves the rule.

270,000 gamers surveyed, read it and weep. Women and men aren't the same, they don't like the same games and it's been proven:



My man.....are you not smart or something? Your posts proves otherwise. You just posted this chart.......



- 18% of all gamers that play Action Adventure games are female
- 20% of all gamers that play Action RPGs are female
- 25% of all gamers that play Platformers are female
- 25% of all gamers that play Survival Roguelikes are female
- 26% of all gamers that play Western RPGs are female
- 33% of all gamers that play Japanese RPGs are female


I just showed you guys this report from Sony. 41% of ALL PS4 and PS5 gamers are female. So compare the numbers from Sony to the number "YOU" found in that report. It shows you that a sizable audience of people that would be willing to buy an Uncharted game, a Fall Out game, or a Ratchet and Clank game are women. How do some of you guys not understand this?

 
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