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[MidGenRefresh]

I think the shooting and gameplay was groundbreaking and took ND’s tech to the next level.

What was ground-breaking about the gameplay and or shooting?

 

[STARSBarry]

What was ground-breaking about the gameplay and or shooting?

I think they mean that everything surrounding the gameplay was top notch which made them think mechanically that it was somehow better than it was.

It's essentially just every optional stealth third person shooter combat... reminds me alot of assasins creed with guns really... which is about as generic as you can get. The animations do go along way in making you think it's more deep than it is, but that's all it is.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

I think they mean that everything surrounding the gameplay was top notch which made them think mechanically that it was somehow better than it was.

It's essentially just every optional stealth third person shooter combat... reminds me alot of assasins creed with guns really... which is about as generic as you can get. The animations do go along way in making you think it's more deep than it is, but that's all it is.

Exactly. Animations are very well crafted. Gore makes it look super flashy. The gameplay itself is typical to this 3rd person shooting games with light stealth elements. There's nothing ground-breaking. Hell, I don't know if you can even achieve anything ground-breaking anymore. Maybe with some crazy good and advanced AI.

 

[Brian Jensen]

The shooting, movement and controls were incredible and took everything that ND had done to another level.

What was ground-breaking about the gameplay and or shooting?

 

[sol_bad]

If you wanna see Mauler's commentary(notorious for giving hours long commentary on movies/shows), just the highlights, he points out overly obvious plot armor, character assassinations, contrivances, manipulative character development, memberberries and perceived plot holes/bad story telling etc.

This is called nitpicking, not plot holes.

*EDIT*
Jesus, I watched the first 20 minutes and all he is doing is crying over the fact that Joel is dead.

 

[DForce]

Just skimming through that rant video just shows how little people know about the story of TLOU. It's also bad when people reference it.

Too many contrivances! That's bad writing!

Umm... yeah, just watch just about every movie out there.

 

[SpokkX]

Replaying this on new game plus made me appreciate a lot of the new machanics such as the dodge, new melee system, the ai dialogue and behaviour, the prone system and open level design

All the stuff that DONT seem to be in tlou part 1 according to the leaks…

 

[Ulysses 31]

This is called nitpicking, not plot holes.

It's not nitpicking if it's something that affects the plot.

*EDIT*
Jesus, I watched the first 20 minutes and all he is doing is crying over the fact that Joel is dead.

That can happen when you kill a liked person in a very contrived way.

The playing as zombie Joel trying to escape the graveyard was kinda funny.

And you haven't heard him tear into Abby yet.

 

[Moses85]

 

[SmokedMeat]

Been wanting to play this to see what the hype’s all about.

 

[DetectiveBananas]

The graphics and voice acting were top notch …I’ll give them that. The scene with Joel and Ellie at the museum was powerful moment in the wake of all the death and destruction.

 

[DForce]

It's not nitpicking if it's something that affects the plot.

He just uses the same arguments people have been using for years now.

"They never gave Joel a choice."

"They let Ellie live? That makes no sense at all."

So did these people miss the part in TLOU 1 where Marlene gave Joel a choice "to do the right thing" and he didn't take it? Abby and her friends letting Tommy and Joel go makes perfect sense, but what if we applied movies? Or that Ellie has "so much plot armor?"

Take Kill Bill for example

- Elle Driver goes to the hospital to kill Beatrix Kiddo, but Bill calls off the mission because they "owe her."
- Budd shoots Beatrix Kiddo with a shotgun, but she survives because the bullets were made of Rock Salt. Instead of killing her, he decides to bury her alive.
- Vernita Green has an open shot to kill Beatrix, but she misses badly.. A trained assassin.

If anything like this happened in TLOU, this would be considered "bad writing."

 

[Ulysses 31]

He just uses the same arguments people have been using for years now.

"They never gave Joel a choice."

"They let Ellie live? That makes no sense at all."

He says those things as he sees them the first time. He is expecting the game to explain it later on "You better answer these questions game".

And the reasoning for letting Ellie live ultimately isn't very satisfying considering she swore vengeance on them loud and clear.

Abby who went cross states for vengeance should know what it could mean for her or her group.

So did these people miss the part in TLOU 1 where Marlene gave Joel a choice "to do the right thing" and he didn't take it? Abby and her friends letting Tommy and Joel go makes perfect sense, but what if we applied movies? Or that Ellie has "so much plot armor?"

I assume he means a choice to do the morally right thing.

Killing Ellie without informed consent is not a moral thing to do. Ellie had given Joel signs she wants a future with him so Joel has every reason to go against Marlene's choice till Ellie could clarify what she ultimately wants.

Take Kill Bill for example

- Elle Driver goes to the hospital to kill Beatrix Kiddo, but Bill calls off the mission because they "owe her."
- Budd shoots Beatrix Kiddo with a shotgun, but she survives because the bullets were made of Rock Salt. Instead of killing her, he decides to bury her alive.
- Vernita Green has an open shot to kill Beatrix, but she misses badly.. A trained assassin.

If anything like this happened in TLOU, this would be considered "bad writing."

Been a while since I watched Kill Bill and I don't really regard it as a movie with exemplary logical story telling and more as violent light hearted entertainment with Taratino dialog sauce.

I kinda agree that if Bill was serious about killing the bridge the first time he should let Elle Driver do her thing. She was getting beat up by a group while heavily pregnant so this giving her a "fair" chance again kinda comes out of nowhere.
Budd is dumb not to finish her off when he had the chance. But even if he had, fate would have him killed by Elle Driver shortly after so he got what was coming to him regardless.
Vernita Green's big mistake she ends up paying for I agree.

Most of those things end up getting a pass for the light heartedness of the story telling. I find it harder to do with a very tonally serious and story driven game like TLOU(2).

 

[Tripolygon]

He says those things as he sees them the first time. He is expecting the game to explain it later on "You better answer these questions game".

The story is complete, what he wants is handholding and explaining everything like he was a toddler. Sometimes stories leave things purposefully vague or unanswered so you can fill in the blanks yourself. Just because you make a long form video on the internet does not mean you know what good writing is, I imagine that is what you are attempting to imply.

And the reasoning for letting Ellie live ultimately isn't very satisfying considering she swore vengeance on them loud and clear.

She swore vengeance on Joel, the others were just there to help her kill Joel. Once Joel was dead, the motivation she had was gone, Manny and the other kid wanted to Kill Ellie as well and Owen and his girlfriend prevented it, .... fill in the blanks.

Abby who went cross states for vengeance should know what it could mean for her or her group.

Vengeance is irrational, you see it in real life all the time. You know the consequences, but you just don't give a fuck. Joel knew it, he killed Marlene because he felt they would be coming for him and Ellie even though Marlene was attempting to surrender her weapon and begged for Joel to let her go. He just didn't think who would ultimately kill him is the Dr's daughter. Brilliant subversion of expectations and retcon. Not a plot hole.

I assume he means a choice to do the morally right thing.

Not a plot hole, seriously do people know what writing is? What part of the fireflies gave off any vibe that they cared about morality? Have we not seen these stories play out in real world history? The Tuskegee experiments? Auschwitz experiments?

Killing Ellie without informed consent is not a moral thing to do. Ellie had given Joel signs she wants a future with him so Joel has every reason to go against Marlene's choice till Ellie could clarify what she ultimately wants.

Again, who said the fireflies cared about morality? They were operating under the premise of the end justifies the means and you can see that in any story with conflict. You are literally filling in blanks and proving how effective the story was by the bolded, that is the point, to get the user to not only question the morality of what is being done but as you the player have gotten to spend time with Ellie and Joel, you feel obligated to protect her at all costs. Well, the cost for Joel is his life. It was inevitable.

he got what was coming to him regardless.
big mistake she ends up paying for I agree.

Most of those things end up getting a pass for the light heartedness of the story telling. I find it harder to do with a very tonally serious and story driven game like TLOU(2).

Just because a story is "serious" does not mean you don't get creative license and a "pass" to write what you want and demand suspension of disbelief from the audience. The problem you and many others like you have is, they killed Joel and you don't like it, now you must find reasons why you hate the game.

 

[GymWolf]

It really still holds the highest peak of game production quality.

You mispelled rdr2.

 

[Lady Jane]

Watching Gaf creating a thread to suck TLoU2’s dick every time it wins a new award, sells more copies, or has its birthday is starting to become a community staple on here. It’s like watching 6 year olds eating McDonalds, because a happy meal is a masterpiece of the culinary arts when you’re in the single digits.

The best part is the attitude of self worth and superiority from some of those that loved it, just because they didn’t hate a challenging and mature story. I’m reminded of that South Park episode where they go to California, and every time someone over there makes a statement, they cut a fart and lean in to smell their own brand.

I just want to talk video games and people who drool over this game have to inject how superior their taste is in any discussion about single player games. The level of TLOU2's writing and ending proves that no matter how crappy it gets, people will defend it. The fandom reminds me of someone I knew who exclusively watched anime and you couldn't go 5 minutes without him injecting some anime show into the discussion and god-forbid if you disagreed with him. Branch out beyond stories aimed at children with a "mature" filter on-top or at least be self-aware that stories in video games are mass defend by preteens on twitter.

Video games are fun and only supposed to be a break from reality after a long day or with some time off. Treating them as more than that is just....not healthy. TLOU's fanbase (not the game, just the fanbase) is the epitome of this culture.

 

[Ulysses 31]

The story is complete, what he wants is handholding and explaining everything like he was a toddler. Sometimes stories leave things purposefully vague or unanswered so you can fill in the blanks yourself. Just because you make a long form video on the internet does not mean you know what good writing is, I imagine that is what you are attempting to imply.

No he doesn't, he even says that he doesn't need an explanation right now when he remarks on interesting story decisions or that he'll keep playing to get all the context.

She swore vengeance on Joel, the others were just there to help her kill Joel. Once Joel was dead, the motivation she had was gone, Manny and the other kid wanted to Kill Ellie as well and Owen and his girlfriend prevented it, .... fill in the blanks.

The game fills it for us eventually when it's just doesn't seem very congruent to me for people living in an post apocalyptic world to leave leads for a vengeful person that carelessly. Especially considering the lengths they went through for vengeance.

I'm not sure if I would call it bad writing rather than characters making dumb decisions. Dumb people exist after all. It makes stories less engaging if plot moves forward because of dumb things happening IMO.

Vengeance is irrational, you see it in real life all the time. You know the consequences, but you just don't give a fuck. Joel knew it, he killed Marlene because he felt they would be coming for him and Ellie even though Marlene was attempting to surrender her weapon and begged for Joel to let her go. He just didn't think who would ultimately kill him is the Dr's daughter. Brilliant subversion of expectations and retcon. Not a plot hole.

Not a plot hole, seriously do people know what writing is? What part of the fireflies gave off any vibe that they cared about morality? Have we not seen these stories play out in real world history? The Tuskegee experiments? Auschwitz experiments?

Not sure where you pulling those plot holes from since I didn't bring them up as plot holes.

By the point Joel shot Marlene it was already too late, the doctor was dead and Fireflies were shooting at him AND Ellie. So being the survivor that he is him killing Marlene in cold blood like that doesn't totally come out of the blue. And we saw him do it before when he tortured someone for info and killed him afterwards anyway. Joel is not a "good" person either, don't get me wrong.

Again, who said the fireflies cared about morality? They were operating under the premise of the end justifies the means and you can see that in any story with conflict. You are literally filling in blanks and proving how effective the story was by the bolded, that is the point, to get the user to not only question the morality of what is being done but as you the player have gotten to spend time with Ellie and Joel, you feel obligated to protect her at all costs. Well, the cost for Joel is his life. It was inevitable.

Just because a story is "serious" does not mean you don't get creative license and a "pass" to write what you want and demand suspension of disbelief from the audience. The problem you and many others like you have is, they killed Joel and you don't like it, now you must find reasons why you hate the game.

The Fireflies don't really care about morality as it turns out so when someone like Joel comes along and annihilates most of them in defence of Ellie I don't feel sorry for them and will give little consideration for their POV. The Fireflies went into fanatical territory when he didn't even consider asking Ellie when there was nothing in the story preventing them from postponing the surgery.

Any reasonable TLOU fan would be OK with Joel dying because of his past, it was disappointing they came up with such a contrived circumstance and some out of character actions from him and Tommy to get there.

 

[RAIDEN1]

I need to see the first part as a movie, the game never attracted me as much as a Uncharted did...

 

[Topher]

I just want to talk video games and people who drool over this game have to inject how superior their taste is in any discussion about single player games. The level of TLOU2's writing and ending proves that no matter how crappy it gets, people will defend it.

Or maybe those people simply have a different opinion on the game than you do. Look, the game is controversial for some for reasons, but for some of us it is absolutely a fantastic game and story all around. Either way, you are completely free to "talk video games" and people enjoying this game doesn't prevent you from doing that.

 

[kanjobazooie]

Amazing game, but a miserable and depressing experience.
The post-apocalypse is shitty we fucking get it. No need to dress it in black and put goth makeup on it to make it extra dark.

Go back to making mascot platformers. (sorry, had to vent lmao)

Spoiler: Story spoilers?

I'm not talking about Joel's death btw. He deserved to die.

 

[Lady Jane]

Or maybe those people simply have a different opinion on the game than you do. Look, the game is controversial for some for reasons, but for some of us it is absolutely a fantastic game and story all around. Either way, you are completely free to "talk video games" and people enjoying this game doesn't prevent you from doing that.

That...wasn't my point? It's putting this video game on a pedestal in any discussion when it comes to single player games and if someone disagrees, those that put the game on a pedestal are relentless in convincing everyone that it's the GOAT. And if someone says "can you please stop with this TLOU worshipping" they're met with "u mad?" type of responses. It's aggravating. It's a video game. That's all it is. And yes, I find it equally sad when people do the same for HL2 and The Witcher 3. Though Sony's marketing push every year with a remake, some anniversary deal, or some edition gives this fandom more fuel and confidence to praise this video game on a level like no other. It's something else.

 

[Topher]

That...wasn't my point? It's putting this video game on a pedestal in any discussion when it comes to single player games and if someone disagrees, those that put the game on a pedestal are relentless in convincing everyone that it's the GOAT. And if someone says "can you please stop with this TLOU worshipping" they're met with "u mad?" type of responses. It's aggravating. It's a video game. That's all it is. And yes, I find it equally sad when people do the same for HL2 and The Witcher 3. Though Sony's marketing push every year with a remake, some anniversary deal, or some edition gives this fandom more fuel and confidence to praise this video game. It's something else.

Yeah, if someone is constantly praising TLOU 2 in other threads that isn't about TLOU 2 then that would get annoying. But you are the one coming into a TLOU 2 thread to dog on TLOU 2 fans. How is that any different?

Spoiler

It isn't

 

[Lady Jane]

Yeah, if someone is constantly praising TLOU 2 in other threads that isn't about TLOU 2 then that would get annoying. But you are the one coming into a TLOU 2 thread to dog on TLOU 2 fans. How is that any different?

Spoiler

It isn't

I was responding to someone with generally the same opinion and adding to it. You responded to me. I guess you're just like me? I don't know. Everything is super duper serious when it comes to the TLOU fandom. They way you're responding to me is another example of that. It's insane what these discussions turned into. Who cares if I don't like it? Who cares if you do like it? Did I break a law? Though every time someone part of the fandom finds that someone doesn't like the game, they sure do act like we broke a code and need to answer for it. The TLOU fandom is the worst when it comes to this attitude.

 

[rofif]

Amazing game!
Gameplay, characters and story!
I am so happy they did something else, new, unique rather than another happy go lucky story.

But the reaction of haters is exactly why we can't have nice things. They create something new and get punished for it.... Same with Death Stranding.
Do you people really want the same call of duty each year ?

 

[Tripolygon]

No he doesn't, he even says that he doesn't need an explanation right now when he remarks on interesting story decisions or that he'll keep playing to get all the context.

You shared that video as evidence of "overly obvious plot armor, character assassinations, contrivances, manipulative character development, memberberries and perceived plot holes/bad story telling etc". Most of which are nitpicking and not examples of the grievances.

The game fills it for us eventually when it's just doesn't seem very congruent to me for people living in an post apocalyptic world to leave leads for a vengeful person that carelessly. Especially considering the lengths they went through for vengeance.

Again, it is not uncommon for people to make stupid mistakes that comes to bite them in the ass. What is your frame of reference as to what people living in a postapocalyptic world should behave like? Do they not make irrational choices? You are making up a set off rules that is not established anywhere and holding it against the characters in TLOU. People are careless. It makes sense.

I'm not sure if I would call it bad writing rather than characters making dumb decisions. Dumb people exist after all. It makes stories less engaging if plot moves forward because of dumb things happening IMO.

Yes, people make bad decisions that much is a given. Why should the characters in TLOU be any different? Your reasoning is because it is a story that is serious so people can't make dumb choice does not hold true for any story.

Not sure where you pulling those plot holes from since I didn't bring them up as plot holes.

Because you posted a video as evidence of plot holes and there are none, it is just nit picking.

By the point Joel shot Marlene it was already too late, the doctor was dead and Fireflies were shooting at him AND Ellie. So being the survivor that he is him killing Marlene in cold blood like that doesn't totally come out of the blue. And we saw him do it before when he tortured someone for info and killed him afterwards anyway. Joel is not a "good" person either, don't get me wrong.

We have established that Joel is not a good person, and he was willing to kill anyone to survive. In that same frame Abby sees her dad is murdered in cold blood and is set upon getting revenge, we see that in so many stories. She doesn't kill people randomly, so it makes sense that once she kills Joel, she has had her revenge and doesn't need to kill Ellie. It becomes even clearer as we see her save Lev and Yara many times even though she didn't have to.

The Fireflies don't really care about morality as it turns out so when someone like Joel comes along and annihilates most of them in defence of Ellie I don't feel sorry for them and will give little consideration for their POV. The Fireflies went into fanatical territory when he didn't even consider asking Ellie when there was nothing in the story preventing them from postponing the surgery.

The fireflies never cared about morality; they bombed the security checkpoint even though civilians were there. That is your first introduction to them, they recruit children to fight. So again, why would they care about giving Ellie a choice when the end justifies the means for them? If Ellie says no which we know for a fact that she would gladly sacrifice her life because of her past trauma, they still would have performed the surgery.

Any reasonable TLOU fan would be OK with Joel dying because of his past, it was disappointing they came up with such a contrived circumstance and some out of character actions from him and Tommy to get there.

It was not contrived. Unexpected, but not contrived. Child revenges father's death is a story as old as time. Their choices made sense under the circumstances they were in.

 

[Topher]

I was responding to someone with generally the same opinion and adding to it. You responded to me. I guess you're just like me? I don't know. Everything is super duper serious when it comes to the TLOU fandom. They way you're responding to me is another example of that. It's insane what these discussions turned into. Who cares if I don't like it? Who cares if you do like it? Did I break a law? Though every time someone part of the fandom finds that someone doesn't like the game, they sure do act like we broke a code and need to answer for it. The TLOU fandom is the worst when it comes to this attitude.

No, I think posts like yours and the one you responded to are showing us all too well that TLOU haters are just as bad, if not worse. If you want to talk about the insanity of these threads I think you should start there.

 

[Woggleman]

People keep bringing up fun and yes video games should be fun but there are different versions of that. Some people genuinely like horror movies, crime dramas and dark movies so why is it such a stretch to believe that some gamers like their games the same way?

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Best moment of the game so far

 

[Ellery]

Best moment of the game so far

Absolute favorite chapter/level of any game in history. The Birthday Gift was pure magic and I loved it so much. The end with the walkman and the capsule. Good lord that was amazing

 

[Bo_Hazem]

You mispelled rdr2.

RDR2 is an ok game at best with a shallow, silly story and shit gameplay and a chore.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Absolute favorite chapter/level of any game in history. The Birthday Gift was pure magic and I loved it so much. The end with the walkman and the capsule. Good lord that was amazing

Hey, hey, hey... SPOILERS! I'm playing this chapter right now.

But to be honest, it tells you all you need to know about TLOU2 when the best parts of if are flashbacks to where Joel and Ellie were a team.

 

[Ellery]

Hey, hey, hey... SPOILERS! I'm playing this chapter right now.

But to be honest, it tells you all you need to know about TLOU2 when the best parts of if are flashbacks to where Joel and Ellie were a team.

We always want what we don't have so we appreciate the rare things so much more. I think the flashbacks work well because of how TLOU2 is designed.

(I'd still love a spinoff/game inbetween 1 and 2 with Joel and maybe Ellie or Tommy or both)

 

[MidGenRefresh]

I think the flashbacks work well because of how TLOU2 is designed.

I think they work well because TLOU2 is full of unlikeable characters and uninteresting dialogue. I can't stand the interactions between Ellie and that pregnant girl. I don't even know what her name is.

(I'd still love a spinoff/game inbetween 1 and 2 with Joel and maybe Ellie or Tommy or both)

That would be dreamy but I doubt we will ever get it.

 

[GymWolf]

RDR2 is an ok game at best with a shallow, silly story and shit gameplay and a chore.

Calling out rdr2 shallow and silly story after praising tlou2 must the funniest thing i heard in the past week.

And production wise, rdr2 is probably the biggest game ever made, you can check the budget for both games, i'm not even sure if tlou2 beats gta5 budget, let alone rdr2...

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Calling out rdr2 shallow and silly story after praising tlou2 must the funniest thing i heard in the past week.

And production wise, rdr2 is probably the biggest game ever made, you can check the budget for both games, i'm not even sure if tlou2 beats gta5 budget, let alone rdr2...

I said "production quality". RDR2 doesn't even pass Ratchet and Clank in that regard. Too much silly details and cramping horse balls doesn't mean much. RDR2 story is one of the worst in the industry vs RDR1 that was a masterpiece.

 

[Shifty]

Pure desparation.

 

[Lady Jane]

No, I think posts like yours and the one you responded to are showing us all too well that TLOU haters are just as bad, if not worse. If you want to talk about the insanity of these threads I think you should start there.

They act like any criticisms must be dealt with instead of just taken. If I got into a Rocket League thread and criticize the game, there's discussion. Same with Super Smash Bros, Total War, CS, and so-on. There may be disagreements on what's better for the game, but the points are responded too and it doesn't dissolve into bans. But TLOU? God damn any criticism is met with "if you don't like the game, just leave!" "you probably don't the like game because you're a [insert label here]", "you're just mad it's the GOAT!". It's so tiresome and riddled inside the TLOU community.

 

[Ulysses 31]

You shared that video as evidence of "overly obvious plot armor, character assassinations, contrivances, manipulative character development, memberberries and perceived plot holes/bad story telling etc". Most of which are nitpicking and not examples of the grievances.

That's what he perceives it as, I don't take his word as the gospel but I often agree with his takes. People can nitpick, it becomes an issue if the nitpicks are presented as serious flaws of the story which doesn't happen in the video.

Again, it is not uncommon for people to make stupid mistakes that comes to bite them in the ass. What is your frame of reference as to what people living in a postapocalyptic world should behave like? Do they not make irrational choices? You are making up a set off rules that is not established anywhere and holding it against the characters in TLOU. People are careless. It makes sense.

That they lived for so long in an apocalyptic world where kindness/mercy/sloppiness can get you killed and where you have to ruthless to survive out in the wilderness. So this sloppiness (wearing WLF patches openly, leaving witnesses) seems very dumb of them.

Yes, people make bad decisions that much is a given. Why should the characters in TLOU be any different? Your reasoning is because it is a story that is serious so people can't make dumb choice does not hold true for any story.

Because the quality of TLOU story telling didn't have much of people acting as dumb as we see so soon into TLOU2.

Because you posted a video as evidence of plot holes and there are none, it is just nit picking.

Someone wanted to see why someone wouldn't be all that positive about TLOU2 and so I posted this video. It's not "proof" that TLOU2 is a bad game.

We have established that Joel is not a good person, and he was willing to kill anyone to survive. In that same frame Abby sees her dad is murdered in cold blood and is set upon getting revenge, we see that in so many stories. She doesn't kill people randomly, so it makes sense that once she kills Joel, she has had her revenge and doesn't need to kill Ellie. It becomes even clearer as we see her save Lev and Yara many times even though she didn't have to.

She doesn't know her dad was murdered in cold blood but even if she assumes he was, Joel helped her when he could've left her for horde food/distraction which should change her perception of him as a mindless butcher. For some reason it counts for nothing with Joel but for the 2 scars she's willing to turn on her faction for.

The fireflies never cared about morality; they bombed the security checkpoint even though civilians were there. That is your first introduction to them, they recruit children to fight. So again, why would they care about giving Ellie a choice when the end justifies the means for them? If Ellie says no which we know for a fact that she would gladly sacrifice her life because of her past trauma, they still would have performed the surgery.

So what's the issue then when Joel kills so many Fireflies in defence of Ellie?

The Ellie that said that she was willing to die in that hospital went through years of embitterment and doesn't know the whole context Joel was in when he got her out. It's questionable she's go along with the Fireflies that easily had she known the full context and that she would be OK with abandoning Joel without ever saying goodbye to him first. If she was OK with it knowing the full context then that is a stain on her character IMO.

It was not contrived. Unexpected, but not contrived. Child revenges father's death is a story as old as time. Their choices made sense under the circumstances they were in.

It is contrived, Joel is on patrol when Abby decided to visit the town for the time, there's a horde(a rare occurrence according to the logs) roaming around, there's a blizzard, Joel spots Abby through the blizzard and horde.

Stories can jump start on big coincidences at the beginning, sure. But on top of that Tommy and Joel give away their names and don't act more cautious around a group of armed strangers near their town is what makes it a hard sell for me. Joel told Tommy what he'd done at the beginning of the game.

 

[GymWolf]

I said "production quality". RDR2 doesn't even pass Ratchet and Clank in that regard. Too much silly details and cramping horse balls doesn't mean much. RDR2 story is one of the worst in the industry vs RDR1 that was a masterpiece.

I need to go train but i feel like i already lost 2-3 kg of brain matter after reading this post...

 

[DeepEnigma]

RDR2 is an ok game at best with a shallow, silly story and shit gameplay and a chore.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I need to go train but i feel like i already lost 2-3 kg of brain matter after reading this post...

Seems like it was a disposable weight. Go hit the weights.

 

[Woggleman]

RDR2 might have some issues with controls but when so many people think Arthur surpassed John it certainly does not have a bad story.

 

[DeepEnigma]

RDR2 might have some issues with controls but when so many people think Arthur surpassed John it certainly does not have a bad story.

Best. Protagonist. Ever.

 

[Topher]

They act like any criticisms must be dealt with instead of just taken. If I got into a Rocket League thread and criticize the game, there's discussion. Same with Super Smash Bros, Total War, CS, and so-on. There may be disagreements on what's better for the game, but the points are responded too and it doesn't dissolve into bans. But TLOU? God damn any criticism is met with "if you don't like the game, just leave!" "you probably don't the like game because you're a [insert label here]", "you're just mad it's the GOAT!". It's so tiresome and riddled inside the TLOU community.

Really easy to pretend the hostility in those threads only happen in one direction, but in reality it starts with something like....

"Watching Gaf creating a thread to suck TLoU2’s dick every time it wins a new award, sells more copies, or has its birthday is starting to become a community staple on here. It’s like watching 6 year olds eating McDonalds, because a happy meal is a masterpiece of the culinary arts when you’re in the single digits."

 

[Lady Jane]

Really easy to pretend the hostility in those threads only happen in one direction, but usually it starts with something like....

"Watching Gaf creating a thread to suck TLoU2’s dick every time it wins a new award, sells more copies, or has its birthday is starting to become a community staple on here. It’s like watching 6 year olds eating McDonalds, because a happy meal is a masterpiece of the culinary arts when you’re in the single digits."

Every single game, everyone single one, has people criticize it. What makes a thread toxic are rarely, if ever, the people criticizing a game. It's always the people that can't take criticization and escalate it by overreacting, eventually inviting mods to intervene.

I do not care about TLOU's relevance, awards, or what-have-you. I dislike Final Fantasy as well and when I give my input onto why, the thread flows just fine. Though when input is given on a TLOU discussion that isn't praising the game, it becomes a shit show and it's because the fandom brings the conversation down to label throwing and "u mad?" type responses.

Whenever there's a thread about single-player discussion or even just TLOU, when someone says anything negative about TLOU (constructive or not), even if there are plenty of other games that were criticized, it's inviting a fandom that is ready to bomb the discussion.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Every single game, everyone single one, has people criticize it.

Nah, TLoU/ND threads are whole special type of critical disorder.

 

[Topher]

Every single game, everyone single one, has people criticize it. What makes a thread toxic are rarely, if ever, the people criticizing a game. It's always the people that can't take criticization and escalate it by overreacting, eventually inviting mods to intervene.

Always? You mean like the guy I just quoted talking about ND fans "sucking dick" and comparing them to 6 years olds for liking the game? Believe what you want then.

 

[Relique]

I'm not sure if I would call it bad writing rather than characters making dumb decisions.

You hit the nail on the head with this point. This is by far the biggest problem I had with the narrative. It felt like everyone was very irrational or at the very least very out of character. You could excuse a couple of dumb decisions from a few people but not like this. It didn't feel like those were people that survived decades in a zombie apocalypse. It's like no one learned anything from their previous experiences.

Yes, people make bad decisions that much is a given. Why should the characters in TLOU be any different? Your reasoning is because it is a story that is serious so people can't make dumb choice does not hold true for any story.

For me it was simply that there were way too many nonsensical decisions being made by almost every character. It just completely broke believability for me. I could make a huge ass list it's been a long time since my single playthrough so I'd be missing a lot of detail. My other issue with TLOU2 is that there is practically no development on the infection/cure front. The big hope for a cure was the overarching plot thread of TLOU under which everything else was greatly amplified. Without something like this for TLOU2 I found the various revenge plots not nearly as fulfilling on their own.

 

[Lady Jane]

Always? You mean like the guy I just quoted talking about ND fans "sucking dick" and comparing them to 6 years olds for liking the game? Believe what you want then.

Yeah that's pretty normal. Yet the TLOU fanbase just...makes everything super duper serious all the time.

 

[Tripolygon]

That's what he perceives it as, I don't take his word as the gospel but I often agree with his takes. People can nitpick, it becomes an issue if the nitpicks are presented as serious flaws of the story which doesn't happen in the video.

The video is made for entertainment first and foremost and is popular in the same way Cinema Sins is popular, to nitpick things about entertainment. It's not to say one can't find things to nitpick about anything. You presented this video as serious flaws and nothing in the video presents as such.

That they lived for so long in an apocalyptic world where kindness/mercy/sloppiness can get you killed and where you have to ruthless to survive out in the wilderness. So this sloppiness (wearing WLF patches openly, leaving witnesses) seems very dumb of them.

Again, where is the rule you are judging the character coming from that kindness, mercy and sloppiness which are inherent human traits does not exist in a post-apocalyptic world? Didn't Tommy and his wife form a community where people are kind to one another? Wasn't there a military zone where life was somewhat normal? Even though there were other groups who were ruthless, there are many who were kind also. People are inherently good and terrible things happening en masse does not erode our capacity to be good and kind to one another.

Because the quality of TLOU story telling didn't have much of people acting as dumb as we see so soon into TLOU2.

Smuggling a girl across state is an incredibly risky and dumb thing to do. You do it because you want something in return, but it is incredibly dumb. "Its just cargo Joel" is the reason Tess gives for why they should do it. Need I go further? I can list a bunch of dumb things in the first game.

Someone wanted to see why someone wouldn't be all that positive about TLOU2 and so I posted this video. It's not "proof" that TLOU2 is a bad game.

Just because the story as any story has something to nitpick does not make it negative. Again, I find most argument is born from they killed Joel so now I find things to hate about the game.

She doesn't know her dad was murdered in cold blood but even if she assumes he was, Joel helped her when he could've left her for horde food/distraction which should change her perception of him as a mindless butcher. For some reason it counts for nothing with Joel but for the 2 scars she's willing to turn on her faction for.

Yes, she does, her dad was a Dr and a scientist for all she knows who helps birth animals (retcon I know). Walks into a surgical room to find her father dead and her instant thought is not he was murdered in cold blood? Vengeance is a great motivator for people do lots of things, she had her vengeance and lost her motivation. Why do murderers leave witnesses in real life? Why do serial killers go back to the scene of their crimes? Joel murdered literally everyone she knew, and she was supposed to change her perception because he saved her that one time?

So what's the issue then when Joel kills so many Fireflies in defence of Ellie?

I didn't say there was an issue, I'm pointing out how you think they should be moral and ask Ellie what she would want.

The Ellie that said that she was willing to die in that hospital went through years or embitterment and doesn't know the whole context Joel was in when he got her out. It's questionable she's go along with the Fireflies that easily had she known the full context and that she would be OK with abandoning Joel without ever saying goodbye to him first. If she was OK with it knowing the full context then that is a stain on her character IMO.

Ok so now it is questionable even though Ellie herself said Joel robbed her of her life meaning something and she hated Joel for it but it now questionable? It is not a stain on her character, it is the same thing as people going to war because they "feel" like it gives their life purpose. Human history is rife with people sacrificing their life for the good of the other.

It is contrived, Joel is on patrol when Abby decided to visit the town for the time, there's a horde(a rare occurrence according to the logs) roaming around, there's a blizzard, Joel spots Abby through the blizzard and horde.

Yes, it's a plot device to drive the story forward. Something being a rare occurrence does not mean it does not happen. Joel and Tommy were trying to find shelter away from the blizzard and horde in an enclosed place is when they come upon Abby. They were not far from their community but would be stupid to brave the blizzard back. Makes sense.

Stories can jump start on big coincidences at the beginning, sure. But on top of that Tommy and Joel give away their names and don't act more cautious around a group of armed strangers near their town is what makes it a hard sell for me. Joel told Tommy what he'd done at the beginning of the game.

Introducing yourself to people you just met is a way to disarm people. It portrays "honesty" and "friendliness". David introduces himself to Ellie even though Ellie had an arrow pointed at him. It is not a hard sell to believe he wanted them to see him as nonthreatening.