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Tomb Raider Review Thread!

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Well shit, these scores sound a lot better than what I was expecting. Thought for sure it was gonna get a lot of 7s or so, motivated by being a so-and-so attempt at making a female Uncharted. Guess I was wrong!
 

Jay Sosa

Member
If you want them, they're still there. You actually have to explore to find them. It's pretty clear from the best seller lists that the average gamer doesn't want them. They want linear cutscene fests. They're catering for both audiences. I really don't see the problem.

The problem is that we have less and less diversity when it comes to big budget titles these days. But like I said, I don't really blame SE, they have to run a business after all. And it's interesting to see that so many gamers are appalled by the violence.
 

King_Moc

Banned
By the sound of the reviews, even the positive ones, the optional tombs are simplistic, one-room puzzles.

From the Eurogamer review:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-25-tomb-raider-review

There are some excellent exploration sections complete with satisfying routes, beautiful vistas and atmospheric tombs. The latter are mostly found by diverging from the main path, and solving the puzzles contained within them is voluntary.

This is a smart idea. Many of the puzzles are as tough as those in the old games, but the option to walk away means there's no risk of getting stuck and frustrated for six hours, like that time in Tomb Raider 3 with the key and the dead monkey. Also every other time in Tomb Raider 3.
 

kurahador

Member
This release basically means death to a genre. Hopefully someone else will revive it.

lol...dat hyperbole.

I think tomb raiding doesn't seem to be the focus because of the narrative aspect. "Lara crash landed on an unknown island full of psychopath killers and trying to survive" doesn't really lend herself in a situation to go hunting treasures and shooting dinosaurs or living statue.

Give CD a chance, then maybe she'll be back to tomb raiding.
 
have you guys watched the polygon today i played video?
http://www.polygon.com/2013/2/26/4032638/today-i-played-tomb-raider

LAIRA

Lol, this was an entertaining video actually. Good lord, Polygon looks uglier every time I see it though.

@ 3:20 "anyone that says that this is a game where Lara is a weakling, a teenage pussy girl that can't do anything - nope, Lara has got it covered."

Even Polygon is mentioning it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to call you out. I'm just saying this is so far removed from any issue I've seen anyone mention in months that I don't think it's relevant anymore. I really don't think anyone here is going to be judging the game or Lara's characterization based on her sex unless the game's narrative does.
 

-tetsuo-

Unlimited Capacity
It is like Resident Evil 4 just came out all over again.

By the sound of the reviews, even the positive ones, the optional tombs are simplistic, one-room puzzles.

They are. All of the exploration is done in the regular game areas, basically. Puzzles are all but gone.
 
I remember it in virtually every thread on Tomb Raider ever. That's what the whole "protect" thing people keep bringing up was about. They're complaining that she was so weak that people had to protect her, and that this was a huge insult to a female gaming icon.

Now they're literally complaining about the exact opposite, and saying it's out of character.
A few thoughts:

First, I see a lot of people do this, which is basically a veiled version of "GAF hive mind"--they see a lot of posts saying one thing, then later see a lot of posts saying a different thing, and so you lump them together as "them" and "you guys" and think you're clever by pointing out the supposed hypocrisy. Except, of course, for the very real possibility that the posters saying the first thing and the posters saying the second thing were different people. There are a lot of posters here. They might not have been the same ones. Maybe they were, I can't say for sure. But if you can't prove it by pointing to specific posts and are instead generalizing the tenor of one thread to another, then you aren't doing much more than unfairly "hive minding."

Second, you are (not for the first time) overly reducing the arguments being made in order to set them up as being contradictory, which just reveals your own refusal to understand context and nuance. I'm not a fan of the original games, so I can't speak for them, but my perception is that what you refer to as posters who are "mad she's not vulnerable and is instead quite strong" are actually saying that this changes her character from a confident, self-assured, explorer who only kills when absolutely necessary, to a brutal, merciless, rampaging serial killer. These are not the same characterizations, and there's no hypocrisy in people who found the former appealing finding it harder to empathize with the latter. Lumping the two together under the umbrella of "strong" is disingenuous; it's like saying that Luke Skywalker and Jason Voorhees are both "strong" because they both kill people. This isn't the first time I've seen you try to be absurdly reductionist about describing characterization and aesthetic properties.

Third, no one is criticizing the new Lara for being "strong"; rather, you keep equating "strong" with "sadistic psychotic merciless serial killer with gruesome kill animations". Killing people the way Lara does in this game is not a requirement to be a strong character, as the original games prove (or so I have heard). Furthermore, you're trying to glean some supposed sexism out of your perception that no one has taken issue with that type of character before. As has been demonstrated, this is not by any means the first title that has provoked commentary on the industry's fixation on extreme, fetishized ultraviolence and questions as to whether that's a good thing (I know I've made several posts about the subject in recent months). So your assertions that no one cared before about male protagonists doing the same thing are demonstrably false. This is just the latest in a long line of titles to provoke such reactions, which in a way is good, because I think it's a discussion that needs to be had. But there's no hypocrisy in people enjoying games that use violence to an extent, but finding the fetishized, over-the-top, apparently gratuitous nature of this game's violence to be gruesome to the point of being disturbing and even somewhat appalling.
 
Eurogamer said:
Many of the puzzles are as tough as those in the old games, ...
Here's hoping this is actually true.

But this is the kind of stuff that disappoints me about modern blockbuster gaming trends:

Eurogamer said:
... but the option to walk away means there's no risk of getting stuck and frustrated for six hours, like that time in Tomb Raider 3 with the key and the dead monkey. Also every other time in Tomb Raider 3.
That's kindof the entire point of the Tomb Raider games. I suppose Portal 2 should have had optional Test Chambers too? Can't have people getting stuck.
 

Jay Sosa

Member
This is a smart idea. Many of the puzzles are as tough as those in the old games, but the option to walk away means there's no risk of getting stuck and frustrated for six hours, like that time in Tomb Raider 3 with the key and the dead monkey. Also every other time in Tomb Raider 3.

But that's what made TR so awesome(to me)...oh well. We'll see a HD remake of the HD remake next gen anyway and since I tend to completely forget what happened once I finished a game it will be like a brand new experience.

I suppose Portal 2 should have had optional Test Chambers too? Can't have people getting stuck.

Well it was a lot easier than Portal 1 (afair)..sooo
 

King_Moc

Banned
The problem is that we have less and less diversity when it comes to big budget titles these days. But like I said, I don't really blame SE, they have to run a business after all. And it's interesting to see that so many gamers are appalled by the violence.

I agree with the first point entirely, but with game budgets the way they are there's no other way. Everyone is trying to sell 10 million copies to the same 10 million people. The only way round it is to lower the budget, which would lead to less of everything.

I'm suprised about the outcry over the violence too. It seems bizarre considering what happens in other games. I get that people are finding her actions don't fit in with what they expect from the character, but i can't help but feel the reactions would be different if the character had always been male.
 

Lime

Member
I agree completely. It feels out of place for a character that has already been established. I still think it fits in the context of the story since these enemies appear to just want you dead. Though they could have gone about it a bt of a different way concerning this is a Lara Croft we all know fairly well. Now if there just totally trying to re-event here and her future self.... a FULL blown remake if you will or re-envision. I get it. Still it's hard to erase everything all us long time Lara fans know.

I don't think you understand what the nuances of how violence can be used. This particular issue isn't about what Lara as an icon used to be or what the history of the series has been. This is about how the violence is specifically depicted in a certain manner. Many workhours have specifically been allocated to make sure that blood sprays in a certain manner, that the body of the kill animates in a certain way, that the meshes of the weapons properly affect the hitboxes of the other meshes, etc. All this effort is targeted towards depicting the violence in a much more brutal manner than other games. Thus, there is a difference in detail and brutality between something like what we see here and other examples of graphical violence.

The fact is you still have a highschool class, told to kill each other and only one survives. Each other hunting/backstabbing each other. All while wearing neck bands that can blow their necks off. Which if the scene near the start in the class room where blood just goes spraying up once the collar blows isn't gratuitous, we simple can agree to disagree. It's still pretty distubring for alot of people from all the people I know that saw it. There was a reason it wasn't released here for a long time.

Ask yourself the question: How is Battle Royale's violence used in the film? What is the purpose of showing it? What is the theme of the film in relation to how the violence is used and how is the development of the characters throughout the plot affected by this graphical depiction of violence?

Now ask the same question in regards to Tomb Raider: What's the purpose of having a spike jammed through the main character's head in an optional fail-state? What's the purpose of the main character knocking down an incapacitated enemy on his stomach and blow his head off from behind? What's the purpose of the main character using her pickaxe to specifically aim and hit the head?

Answering these questions should make it clear to you that there's a difference in how violence is used thanks to the different contexts and goals of it.

Also, slashertrasher, you didn't respond to my clarification on my issues with your "I don't analyze shit to that extent like some of you folks do. It's a game." I assume you agree with my sentiments, then?
 

King_Moc

Banned
One of the "Tombs":
walk down cave tunnel for 25 seconds, walk around slighty curved naturally formed ramp to a giant japanese style chest, open it for salvage and xp, leave "tomb".

They are. All of the exploration is done in the regular game areas, basically. Puzzles are all but gone.

Have you guys played it? Eurogamer aren't normally the type to spout crap in a review.
 
I don't remember executions. We're talking throat stabs, hatchets to the brain, and shotguns to the chin, on already downed enemies here. There is survival and self defense, and then there are these ice cold executions, which are on an entirely different level.

Am I just that out of touch with modern audiences for this shit?

I like to think that if I was in this situation I'd be doing the exact same thing. If someone that just tried to kill me is on the ground....I'm finishing the job.
 

-tetsuo-

Unlimited Capacity
Here's hoping this is actually true.

It isn't. Like I said earlier in the thread, this game follows Resident Evil 4's philosophy very closely. Most all of the traditional Tomb Raider elements have been changed or left behind. Like Resident Evil 4 though, the game is still good.
 
I don't think you understand what the nuances of how violence can be used. This particular issue isn't about what Lara as an icon used to be or what the history of the series has been. This is about how the violence is specifically depicted in a certain manner. Many workhours have specifically been allocated to make sure that blood sprays in a certain manner, that the body of the kill animates in a certain way, that the meshes of the weapons properly affect the hitboxes of the other meshes, etc. All this effort is targeted towards depicting the violence in a much more brutal manner than other games. Thus, there is a difference in detail and brutality between something like what we see here and other examples of graphical violence.



Ask yourself the question: How is Battle Royale's violence used in the film? What is the purpose of showing it? What is the theme of the film in relation to how the violence is used and how is the development of the characters throughout the plot affected by this graphical depiction of violence?

Now ask the same question in regards to Tomb Raider: What's the purpose of having a spike jammed through the main character's head in an optional fail-state? What's the purpose of the main character knocking down an incapacitated enemy on his stomach and blow his head off from behind? What's the purpose of the main character using her pickaxe to specifically aim and hit the head?

Also, slashertrasher, you didn't respond to my clarification on my issues with your "I don't analyze shit to that extent like some of you folks do. It's a game." I assume you agree with my sentiments, then?

I don't agree and I don't appreciate you trying to argue with me on all this. I'm not the person to try and argue with when I'm far from being anyone who is pushing my thoughts over everyone else as "I'm right your wrong"nor am I on anyones case. I'm just stating it how I see it in my eyes. Agree to disagree and leave it be.
 

B-Dex

Member
Have you guys played it? Eurogamer aren't normally the type to spout crap in a review.

I can link you a vid of the exact tomb I was talking about. Sadly even the game comes up and says Tomb Raided on the bottom like some huge achievement. Made me laugh in real life.

(I've also played it)
 

King_Moc

Banned
I suppose Portal 2 should have had optional Test Chambers too? Can't have people getting stuck.

But the Portal games were easy. Far easier than the old Tomb Raiders anyway. It was only the optional unlockable 'remix' levels and some of the co-op stuff that was difficult. The standard single player mode was a cakewalk.
 
But the Portal games were easy. Far easier than the old Tomb Raiders anyway. It was only the optional unlockable 'remix' levels and some of the co-op stuff that was difficult. The standard single player mode was a cakewalk.

So instead of easy puzzles, it's no puzzles

Welp, problem solved!
 

Lime

Member
I don't agree and I don't appreciate you trying to argue with me on all this. I'm not the person to try and argue with when I'm far from being anyone who is pushing my thoughts over everyone else as "I'm right your wrong"nor am I on anyones case. I'm just stating it how I see it in my eyes. Agree to disagree and leave it be.

Haha. You don't appreciate that I am arguing against your position? Don't worry, it's nothing personal, as I have yet to make an ad hominem. My counter-arguments are supposed to help you think more nuanced on the issues we have been discussing, whether it's violence in fictional media or your superficial approach to reviewing.

And don't worry about disagreements or counter-arguments - they are not aimed at pushing thoughts over everyone else. It's basic discourse - one party makes a statement, the other party makes a counter-argument, the discourse flows on, ideas and arguments get aired and criticized, positions get honed and made precise, thoughts get motivated and explicated, and finally both parties end up with a clearer and better understanding of the topic they have been discussing in that particular discourse. Everyone becomes smarter and both are better off than they initially were.

So, don't worry about it next time. Proper discussions are good things that will help you understand and explain different areas of the topic in question and you even become smarter (most of the time) - it's not about being wrong or right, but approaching a common beneficial understanding. But if you don't want to discuss, it's perfectly fine and we carry on instead. :)
 
Puzzles are all but gone.
 
And this can't retain the same difficulty/style of gameplay as the originals. That type of gamer is no longer the majority. Gaming is much more mainstream now and gamers that are used to Assassin's Creed wouldn't be able to clear the first level of Tomb Raider. Making the puzzle based tombs an optional side to the main game is an extremely smart move. A game with the same difficulty and style of play as the first few Tomb Raiders could only really exist as an indie game or something a little more low budget nowadays.

Do you really expect this game to get the budget it had if it wasn't a shooter?

I've been reading this thread since the start, hoping that the reboot still retained parts that the older games specialized in. And like other old TR fans, I feel disappointed. The quotes above have me questioning why this couldn't have been it's own new IP, though I already know the answer to that question. Feels like all the positives don't hold up the almost glossed-over negatives. Great atmosphere and graphics are great, simplification with QTEs I can deal with, but when platform and the puzzles for a TR game are dumbed down, especially for optional tombs, that's disheartening. All the "let the old die, enjoy the new" comments scare me the most. With all the great set designs, what was so hard about making challenging puzzles for those who dared to do so. If the fans who try the game out say the puzzles are ok, and even one feels as good as an old difficult one, then great.

The Rambo stuff does look out of place too. For every close encounter, I would've liked the option to use the but of the gun, smack the guy across the face with it, some kind of "render unconscious" option; something like that could've added real moral choices for Lara to make things more interesting for characterization.

Right now I see this game as good with several missed opportunities. Replayability seems low (I don't include or prefer the MP), no reviews have spoken on difficultly-level, which leads me to think it's somewhat easy, optional tombs with little challenge. Good pacing between action/exploration and the looks of this game are why I'm still somewhat interested. I'll get this game eventually, but maybe at half-price.

And for everyone saying "haters eating crow" and shit, please remember what we were looking for. Not necessarily the "bad" gameplay from the old games, but challenges, puzzles and platforms shaped around modern design that weren't easy and required some skill instead of just looking tense. The defenders obviously got what they wanted out of it, even if some strange vindication from lots of publications giving it good scores (like anyone expected different; they might not care about replayability like some of us do). The old fans could've have been easily catered to with a little more thought, but weren't. Always hope for the sequel I guess, pending good sales.
 

Kinyou

Member
I'm surprised that someone complained about Watch Dogs. I haven't seen even one person do it, but you found one. Congratulations.

I still think way more people are making a fuss about Tomb Raider than they will Watch Dogs. I bet Watch Dogs reviews won't have a warning about the violence either.
Well at least do I hope that I could convince you that not everyone who is complaining about too much violence in this game is a sexist.
 

Don't be sad... it fits within the context of the setting. A teenage Lara wouldn't be able to figure the intense puzzles she does in later games. She's still got some years before her brian fully awakens and she can figure out all those block pushing and switch flipping puzzles :D

JK :D

But really it's dissapointing there isn't more puzzles. I was sad the day puzzles left RE series as well.
 

Shinta

Banned
First, I see a lot of people do this, which is basically a veiled version of "GAF hive mind"--they see a lot of posts saying one thing, then later see a lot of posts saying a different thing, and so you lump them together as "them" and "you guys" and think you're clever by pointing out the supposed hypocrisy. Except, of course, for the very real possibility that the posters saying the first thing and the posters saying the second thing were different people. There are a lot of posters here. They might not have been the same ones. Maybe they were, I can't say for sure. But if you can't prove it by pointing to specific posts and are instead generalizing the tenor of one thread to another, then you aren't doing much more than unfairly "hive minding."
I know it's not popular to say, but it's not usually a big mystery to figure out what the general tone and attitude is towards a game on this site at any given moment. Nobody goes back and dissects a thread looking for each specific commenter that posted so they can cross-reference it just to make a point about a video game. The hate that this site has felt towards this game is pretty well known.

my perception is that what you refer to as posters who are "mad she's not vulnerable and is instead quite strong" are actually saying that this changes her character from a confident, self-assured, explorer who only kills when absolutely necessary, to a brutal, merciless, rampaging serial killer. These are not the same characterizations, and there's no hypocrisy in people who found the former appealing finding it harder to empathize with the latter. Lumping the two together under the umbrella of "strong" is a disingenuous ; it's like saying that Luke Skywalker and Jason Voorhees are both "strong" because they both kill people.

Third, no one is criticizing the new Lara for being "strong"; rather, you keep equating "strong" with "sadistic psychotic merciless serial killer with gruesome kill animations". Killing people the way Lara does in this game is not a requirement to be a strong character

What Lara is showing in the new TR is survival, and I think that's strength. I think the transition from being near death multiple times, to then being the death dealer is very powerful. Revenge, survival, instinct. These are primal emotions that we all feel. It doesn't mean that the game is sadistic, or that she's a serial killer. It doesn't mean the fans of this new game are.

Again, I just think it's solid fight choreography. You're really trying to inflate your point's significance by abusing words like "sadism" and "serial killer" when they really have no place here.

But there's no hypocrisy in people enjoying games that use violence to an extent, but finding the fetishized, over-the-top, apparently gratuitous nature of this game's violence to be gruesome to the point of being disturbing and even somewhat appalling.
Totally disagree. Seems like pretty clear cut hypocrisy to me.

And again, you try and cover this game with meaningless buzz words like "fetishistic" or "sadistic" when all it's really doing is glossing over the reality that it's the same shit that we see in countless other games. Being okay with it in some games, then radically opposed to it in others won't keep me up nights, but it seems hypocritical and borderline sexist.

I said soft-sexism, because it's coming from a place that sees violence against women as especially abhorrent, which is a completely mainstream view virtually everywhere. It's a sexist view, but it's kind of coming from a good place, if that makes any sense. And there's really no doubt in my mind that this is at play in the reaction to this game, and in countless other ways throughout western society.

So your assertions that no one cared before about male protagonists doing the same thing are demonstrably false. This is just the latest in a long line of titles to provoke such reactions, which in a way is good, because I think it's a discussion that needs to be had.
Again, I disagree completely. People cared about Splinter Cell: Blacklist, because Sam is literally just torturing people. But no one cared about Sam snapping necks, or slitting throats. People cared about Drake being a joker that didn't even seem to acknowledge that anyone is getting killed.

I haven't seen any broad outcry against violence in video games though. Actually, during the recent string of school shootings, most people were going out of their way to defend violence in gaming. I acknowledged that someone did complain about Watch Dogs, but it's really just one lone voice that does not represent the mainstream view, and will not be a factor in any reviews for the game - mark my words. One person on Gamasutra wrote an article saying that people cheering for The Last of Us after the shotgun headshot made him upset. That doesn't represent the majority view either - the people cheering do.

Tomb Raider, already, has had far more focus on the violence and it's supposedly disturbing nature than anything else I've seen comparatively. Everyone says it's a cookie cutter TPS. So let's look at the reaction to other TPS games. Did anyone really care about the violence in Gears of War or Uncharted? The vast majority, the overwhelming majority - the answer is no. The reviews never mention it either. There were really no substantial complaints about even the "No Russian" level in Call of Duty, and no one mentioned it as a major warning in their reviews at all. It's completely mainstream. The reaction to TR is the outlier.

Why is it an outlier?

Furthermore, you're trying to glean some supposed sexism out of your perception that no one has taken issue with that type of character before. As has been demonstrated, this is not by any means the first title that has provoked commentary on the industry's fixation on extreme, fetishized ultraviolence and questions as to whether that's a good thing (I know I've made several posts about the subject in recent months).

Again, I think it's a question of proportion. One person getting angry at Watch Dogs, one person getting angry at Last of Us are not really equivalent to the sexism-related shitstorm this game has been in the midst of since E3 of last year. Really not even remotely close to equivalent, in any way. I think you're entirely missing the point.

This isn't the first time I've seen you try to be absurdly reductionist about describing characterization and aesthetic properties.
It won't be the last either. Nothing you've said has even remotely convinced me I'm wrong.

Your post is a lot of window dressing, but when you break it down, I don't think you have any compelling points. Not everyone is on gaming sites as much as I am, and so they miss a lot of the broader trends, or even worse, try and act like it's actually impossible to observe broad trends. I literally couldn't disagree with this any more. It's extremely obvious to me.
Well at least do I hope that I could convince you that not everyone who is complaining about too much violence in this game is a sexist.
Fair enough. It's not 100%, I will agree with that. I still think it's a major factor for a whole lot of people though. I don't expect anyone to admit it.
 
It is like Resident Evil 4 just came out all over again.

I never played the original RE games. RE4 was my first, and it ended up being one of my favorite games of all time.

Somehow, though, I seriously doubt this new Raider will have the masterpiece game design of RE4.
 
If that was my only complaint with a game, I think I'd be pretty happy.

And I just want to note how insanely ironic this all is. The biggest complaint I heard from everyone was that they were depicting Lara as too weak. Now everyone's bitching because she's too strong?

Seriously?


There's zero moderation on the dev's part.

They fucking turned her into Marcus Fenix.
 

Bollocks

Member
I don't care if it's like the old games or not, just because it has the Tomb Raider name attached to it.

I try to judge the game for what it is and since the early previews the game had me interested because it looks like a kickass game in and on itself. The production value seems very high.
Just today, a short sequence, 2 armed guys are approaching Lara, she shoots at one of them, they are still both moving forward then she headshots him, lethal kill and the other guy suddenly is frightened and runs back jumping into cover.
That's just one of the many things that highlight the polishment this game has received.

I can't wait for next week
 

Derrick01

Banned
to be fair

the games you already want have already been released so why don't you go play them

Why don't you go play the other 12 TPS that are just like this game? Weird way to frame an argument. Maybe someone wants another game in an area that hardly gets any games at all.
 
Uncharted fans get Uncharted and Tomb Raider

Tomb Raider fans get uh....replaying those old Tomb Raider games, I guess

Everybody wins, kinda, sorta, not really!
 

-tetsuo-

Unlimited Capacity
I never played the original RE games. RE4 was my first, and it ended up being one of my favorite games of all time.

Somehow, though, I seriously doubt this new Raider will have the masterpiece game design of RE4.

I am talking about people lamenting the changes in the series.
 

Lime

Member
Again, I just think it's solid fight choreography. You're really trying to inflate your point's significance by abusing words like "sadism" and "serial killer" when they really have no place here.

"Pick-axe to the head/shotgun to the face/spike through the skull = solid fight choregraphy, not fetishist or sadistic." I hope you realize the ridiculousness of such a statement.

I haven't seen any broad outcry against violence in video games though.

What rock have you been living under the last 30-40 years?

One person on Gamasutra wrote an article saying that people cheering for The Last of Us after the shotgun headshot made him upset. That doesn't represent the majority view either - the people cheering do.

The fact that this was discussed and debated show that tons of people had a problem with the way gamers approach violence. Like Faceless007 said, it's a discussion that's needed to be had for all games with gratuitous careless violence.

There were really no substantial complaints about even the "No Russian" level in Call of Duty

Tons of people and outlets have criticized and debates the No Russian level, both esoterically and exoterically.

People cared about Splinter Cell: Blacklist, because Sam is literally just torturing people.

Tons of people have criticized the torture in Splinter Cell, most notably the well-respected Tom Bissel. Ubisoft even removed the specific scene because of the outcry.

People cared about Drake being a joker that didn't even seem to acknowledge that anyone is getting killed.

Tons of people have been criticizing the violence in Uncharted.

The reaction to TR is the outlier.

No, it isn't.

Your post is a lot of window dressing, but when you break it down, I don't think you have any compelling points.

I have no idea how you can actually say such a rude thing to faceless007 when she or he is being very articulate and well-reasoned in his/her arguments.
 

vidcons

Banned
Why don't you go play the other 12 TPS that are just like this game? Weird way to frame an argument. Maybe someone wants another game in an area that hardly gets any games at all.

yes, and spending what, two years?, complaining about how something is different even though it's the same gets a little tiring. it's not a call for more adventure games, it's just a call for more old tomb raider games. there are 3+ of those. the investment people have in franchises gets a little gross every now and then
 

Krabboss

Member
This is better than I was expecting, just looking at the numbers. I'll have to actually read some of the reviews to find out what the game does to make it better than a standard third person shooter (cos that's what the previews have made it look like).

Still, surprising scores. Even better than the standard 80-85% titles like this get on metacritic usually.
 
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