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[IbizaPocholo]

Ubisoft Responds to Criticisms of Games Being Too Big

Ubisoft has responded to criticisms that its open-world games are too big. Ubisoft is one of the [...]

comicbook.com

In an interview with GamesIndustry.biz, Ubisoft Stockholm's managing director Patrick Bach stated that not all games need to be bigger, but some games will benefit from it if that's the vision of the creator and the game they're creating. Bach went on to state that he doesn't believe the size of a game necessarily dictates if a game is better, essentially boiling it down to bigger doesn't always mean better.

"No part of a game should be driven by 'more is better.' This is technology, and that does not dictate what games you build, but there are games that will definitely benefit from being bigger, more detailed, being able to scale and being greater than they are today," he said. "I don't think there's a real connection between games being bigger and them being better or worse. It depends on the creators and how they want to spend their energy achieving their vision."

 

[Ownage]

I don't know about others, but I absolutely love huge open world games with random easter eggs everywhere. Breakpoint started off like shit, but ended up great. Same with Wildlands. Keep it up.

 

[Jibran#one]

The problem with ubi games is not that they are bigger it's how those big worlds are filled with filler ,pointless , and extremely repetitive content that always overstays it's welcome

 

[Deerock71]

If you make a game too big to us ADHD types, we go all Vincent on it.

 

[March Climber]

If you removed all of the missions that were copies of other missions, you might end up with a nicely paced 12-15 hour game with nice looking open areas and easter eggs. The padding is what hurts these games.

 

[KyoZz]

The blabla:
"No part of a game should be driven by 'more is better"

Meanwhile in the real word:
AC Odyssey

Far Cry 6:

Etc etc...

 

[kikkis]

The blabla:
"No part of a game should be driven by 'more is better"

Meanwhile in the real word:
AC Odyssey

Far Cry 6:

Etc etc...

So should open world only have main quests and hardly any other points of interests?

 

[Captain Toad]

So should open world only have main quests and hardly any other points of interests?

Perhaps not have 500 versions of 3 events to pad the playtime 20 times longer than necessary? I can't do another Ubisoft open-world game unless they trim the bloat severely.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I had this realization playing Horizon FW:

These blockbuster games have a ton of research (focus testing, telemetry etcetera) also (as in the blockbuster movies) due to their insane budgets, they need to appeal to different kinds of gamers (to maximize the potential market/costumer).

So, the huge content on these games are no meant to be experienced by all/ every gamer; Is there to satisfy different kinds of engagements.

 

[KyoZz]

So should open world only have main quests and hardly any other points of interests?

And even more: in an ideal world, OW games would be designed and built so that the player is not walking from dot to dot and does not open the map every 5 minutes. And I posted Ubi games but it apply to 95% of open worlds.
Devs keep saying "organic world". Well, do it!

Edit:
And yes, what J Jibran#one & Captain Toad said.

 

[Fbh]

Can't really think of any recent Ubisoft game that became better by going bigger.
The problem isn't size, it's that you don't really have the world design, mission variety, gameplay depth, enemy variety and story to support a main quest that stays engaging for 40+ hours.

I have no interest whatsoever in any Ubisoft game with a main story above 30 hours.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I don't know about others, but I absolutely love huge open world games with random easter eggs everywhere. Breakpoint started off like shit, but ended up great. Same with Wildlands. Keep it up.

So should open world only have main quests and hardly any other points of interests?

These aren't points of interest. They are copy pasted wastes of time. Compare this to Elden Ring, BotW, or RDR2. Ubisoft hasn't made a single good open world in over a decade. Odyssey, Valhalla, Breakpoint, Wildlands - they are all dreadfully designed messes.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

The games are too bloated but that’s a issue with todays games in general not just Ubi soft.

I get that the $60-$70 price has to be justified but at least try to make the extra playing time meaning full instead of adding repetitive missions.

 

[Warablo]

The past few AC and most Ubisoft games have been bloated to all hell. I suspect it's because they want to sell boosters and plus think gamers see "more content=worth my money". They need to come up with a better end game, and have the journey be more enjoyable/memorable.

 

[Javthusiast]

Their games are bloated.

 

[jaysius]

They need to look at the new Hitman franchise, big maps but many things work in meaningful ways, objects are often unique and there are appreciably different things to do with said objects. Objectives feel rewarding because of how unique and well crafted the worlds you navigate are. The maps feel genuinely full of possibilities that feel worthwhile to explore.

Another issue with Ubi games is that the main story missions are terrible because they take place in the bland same world instead of slight gated unique bespoke areas. For as boring as Halo Inifnite is, the cordoning of content is something that many open worlds miss. In UBI games the worlds they’ve crafted are already trash, so doing missions “anyway you choose too”(what a load of shit that line is) the missions are all dull and you usually end up fudging them in hopes of getting to a more fun mission(which never happen).

Cyberpunk for all its fault to a lesser extent understood keeping main mission content inaccessible from regular open world navigation for the most part.

Ubi’s cancer is too deep in their companies culture of “many games few unique elements, bigger worlds with nothing unique to do, make the games long to avoid “too short“ comments, but fill the games with filler trash”. Ubi needs a complete overhaul to make good games, they annualized IPs and this is what they get, trash games that aren’t satisfying for most gamers. There is little to no joy of doing a collectathon in a UBI game because the rewards have no weight because the entire thing is just awful.

 

[Dr. Claus]

They need to look at the new Hitman franchise, big maps but many things work in meaningful ways, objects are often unique and there are appreciably different things to do with said objects. Objectives feel rewarding because of how unique and well crafted the worlds you navigate are. The maps feel genuinely full of possibilities that feel worthwhile to explore.

Another issue with Ubi games is that the main story missions are terrible because they take place in the bland same world instead of slight gated unique bespoke areas. For as boring as Halo Inifnite is, the cordoning of content is something that many open worlds miss. In UBI games the worlds they’ve crafted are already trash, so doing missions “anyway you choose too”(what a load of shit that line is) the missions are all dull and you usually end up fudging them in hopes of getting to a more fun mission(which never happen).

Cyberpunk for all its fault to a lesser extent understood keeping main mission content inaccessible from regular open world navigation for the most part.

Ubi’s cancer is too deep in their companies culture of “many games few unique elements, bigger worlds with nothing unique to do, make the games long to avoid “too short“ comments, but fill the games with filler trash”. Ubi needs a complete overhaul to make good games, they annualized IPs and this is what they get, trash games that aren’t satisfying for most gamers. There is little to no joy of doing a collectathon in a UBI game because the rewards have no weight because the entire thing is just awful.

Dense, well designed smaller areas are *always* better than generic massive open worlds. Yakuza is the *king* of dense maps. You learn to know the inside And out of the neighborhood and every building. I could still make a map, by memory, just by playing 3 games.

 

[jaysius]

Dense, well designed smaller areas are *always* better than generic massive open worlds. Yakuza is the *king* of dense maps. You learn to know the inside And out of the neighborhood and every building. I could still make a map, by memory, just by playing 3 games.

Eh, Yakuza isn’t a great example the base games aren’t great, they’re too bogged down in what amounts to soap opera quality “drama”. Yakuza games have dense maps, but too much repetition in the exploration and the building insides, also discovering items doesn’t feel rewarding. The combat is basically the only good thing about them. Like a Dragon has a ton of evolutionary fixes for the series, the first one I’m remotely enjoying.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Personally, I have no problem with the open world being "too big" and I have no issue with open world games having icons on the world map. As long as the option is there to "filter" what is shown on the world map, then I don't see any issues as the player can turn on/off what they want to see on the world map. I for one prefer all the icons on the world map as im not wasting my time wandering around a massive open world hoping to find something or someone in that corner of the map. No thanks. I don't want the game telling me what's at every location. Instead, I prefer points of interest that are basically "?" icons and when you go there, you discover what's there. Basically, I don't want to know what's there, just that there is something there as opposed to nothing.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

If you don't like open world games, this generation is not going to be the generation for you. Developers know the genre is pivotal going forward.

Hell Sony designed their console around open world game design with that SSD.

 

[TransTrender]

Something something time savers, something something pride and accomplishment, something something totally optional.

 

[ACESHIGH]

We have a saying in Spanish

"Lo bueno si breve 2 veces bueno"

Someone should translate it to french and send it to these hacks.
The worst thing is that Sony also caught the Ubisoft virus and their first party games are Ubisoftian borefests now (with higher MC due to the press being biased towards Sony)

 

[Fredrik]

These aren't points of interest. They are copy pasted wastes of time. Compare this to Elden Ring, BotW, or RDR2. Ubisoft hasn't made a single good open world in over a decade. Odyssey, Valhalla, Breakpoint, Wildlands - they are all dreadfully designed messes.

I loved AC Odyssey, for me living up in the cold dark north it was like being on a vacation traversing that beautiful sunny world, never bothered to 100% it but had no issues with the big map.

Elden Ring (GOTY!) is absolutely huge and filled with content as well, people show maps full of content here as an example of how bad things can be but Elden Ring is exactly the same, the devs just don’t show it all on the map and that’s how it should be.
This is the beginning area of Elden Ring:

 

[March Climber]

I had this realization playing Horizon FW:

These blockbuster games have a ton of research (focus testing, telemetry etcetera) also (as in the blockbuster movies) due to their insane budgets, they need to appeal to different kinds of gamers (to maximize the potential market/costumer).

So, the huge content on these games are no meant to be experienced by all/ every gamer; Is there to satisfy different kinds of engagements.

The problem with focus testing and the rest of the data usage is that it's based on past events. It leads to quick stagnation and it's terrible at predicting new trends. It's why games like PUBG(BR games) have blindsided the usual deathmatch multiplayer devs of the 2000s, and why games like Elden Ring are blindsiding the big devs of today. The difference with the latter is that for some reason, some devs are trying to fight against a tidal wave.

It could be for different reasons why they're so against it. There's always been a strange pushback in western media against souls-likes for different reasons, and Elden Ring selling as many units as the AAA over produced big boy franchises means that they are being proven wrong, and they don't want to be proven wrong.

 

[fallingdove]

I loved AC Odyssey, for me living up in the cold dark north it was like being on a vacation traversing that beautiful sunny world, never bothered to 100% it but had no issues with the big map.

Elden Ring (GOTY!) is absolutely huge and filled with content as well, people show maps full of content here as an example of how bad things can be but Elden Ring is exactly the same, the devs just don’t show it all on the map and that’s how it should be.
This is the beginning area of Elden Ring:

Lol. These images are clearly designed by a Ubi apologist. Elden Ring is NOT the exact same.

Elden Ring is designed around paths - exploration paths, quest paths, levels/dungeons, paths to minor/major bosses etc. You pick things up while along these paths (it encourages exploration) but the game is not design around activity-based points of interest. The closest thing to Ubis in the game are maybe mines/caves and evergaols but do not represent the gameplay cycle on display.

 

[Fredrik]

Lol. These images are clearly designed by a Ubi apologist. Elden Ring is NOT the exact same.

Elden Ring is designed around paths - exploration paths, quest paths, levels/dungeons, paths to minor/major bosses etc. You pick things up while along these paths (it encourages exploration) but the game is not design around activity-based points of interest. The closest thing to Ubis in the game are maybe mines/caves and evergaols but do not represent the gameplay cycle on display.

You’re reading too much into that post, I just found a website map and activated all icons. People earlier used the quantity of content as a base of their complaint in Ubi games, I’m saying that’s bs, it’s the icons on the map and arrows showing where you should go that is the problem, not how filled the map is.

The Elden Ring map could’ve looked just like that. Luckily FROM realize that gamers actually enjoy being curious and explore and find stuff by themselves without handholding.

If Nintendo ever make a third person Metroid game then I hope they take a good long look at Elden Ring because structually it would be the perfect fit for a Metroid game.

 

[DAHGAMING]

Roll on 5 yrs, there games going to be 4-5hr and were all going to be here saying "ubi bad" and crying smashing 70 bangers on them. I dont mind there big map shit, you know what your getting into when we start them.

 

[Hendrick's]

The blabla:
"No part of a game should be driven by 'more is better"

Meanwhile in the real word:
AC Odyssey

Far Cry 6:

Etc etc...

They really tones it down for FC6.

 

[cireza]

So should open world only have main quests and hardly any other points of interests?

This would be a good start.

And the fact that the world is vast could actually bring something of interest to the gameplay : the challenge of finding your path and finding locations with minimal clues and logical assumptions.

What I came up with took 2 minutes of thinking though, so I understand people who make open worlds never had the idea.

Instead we get people trying to fill huge worlds with stuff and being forced to resort to a ton of copy pasted and useless things to do so. Which leads for a boring, tedious experience and not even using the simplest possibilities that such a world design offers.

 

[MightySquirrel]

I loved AC Odyssey, for me living up in the cold dark north it was like being on a vacation traversing that beautiful sunny world, never bothered to 100% it but had no issues with the big map.

Elden Ring (GOTY!) is absolutely huge and filled with content as well, people show maps full of content here as an example of how bad things can be but Elden Ring is exactly the same, the devs just don’t show it all on the map and that’s how it should be.
This is the beginning area of Elden Ring:

same characters critisizing all other games for it: 10/10

 

[Icymanipulator]

The games are bloated for sure, but I really loved Odyssey. It’s my guilty pleasure. The hundreds of quests means I can always jump back in and have something to do with out having to start the game over again. Also, I love the setting, Ancient Greece, I can’t help it. I just can’t get enough.

 

[Darth_Ghandi]

Played Valhalla.
It felt too combats focused for my tastes.

 

[Fredrik]

The games are bloated for sure, but I really loved Odyssey. It’s my guilty pleasure. The hundred’s of quests means I can always jump back in and have something to do with out having to start the game over again. Also, I love the setting, Ancient Greece, I can’t help it. I just can’t get enough.

Yup same here. And I did the new DLC recently where Kassandra start off being on vacation. Great stuff!

 

[Craig of War]

The blabla:
"No part of a game should be driven by 'more is better"

Meanwhile in the real word:
AC Odyssey

Far Cry 6:

Etc etc...

You know you can turn of the Icons and hide most of the hud elements in the settings menu right wtf is this post?
Or maybe you don't know that since you don't actually play the games but rather just complain for the sake of it?

 

[Borowski_1]

yes, their games are too big, bloated, and overall bland

 

[Fredrik]

same characters critisizing all other games for it: 10/10

It’s not really a plot twist tbh, FROM hardly show anything at all on the in-game map, the pics are from here.

But the game is insanely full with content, like I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s even industry-leading, the size of the map is bigger than both Skyrim and GTA5 too iirc.

The difference is that it’s all there to find by exploring. You have a few icons on the map, like sites of grace, but you never get an icon pop up ahead of you finding it. It all makes traversing the world in new areas exciting, all of a sudden you stumble into a boss fight or find some awesome loot or cave you had no idea would be there. I hope other devs learn something from it’s success. Definitely Ubi as well.

 

[snir6590]

There is a good big, and there is a bad big.
for instance :
good big - elden ring
bad big - ac valhalla

 

[DenchDeckard]

The blabla:
"No part of a game should be driven by 'more is better"

Meanwhile in the real word:
AC Odyssey

Far Cry 6:

Etc etc...

This actually gives me anxiety.

 

[Juza]

Is Patrick Bach now working for Ubi? lol

 

[EDMIX]

So should open world only have main quests and hardly any other points of interests?

Perhaps not have 500 versions of 3 events to pad the playtime 20 times longer than necessary? I can't do another Ubisoft open-world game unless they trim the bloat severely.

Well...true. If they didn't have that much quest one might argue the whole "bigger cause they think its better" idea, but with that much content, clearly its not like the world is just empty, but I do agree with what Captain is saying too, its also about the quality of those quest. Ubisoft can make a quality open world, they can design some amazing looking games and if I put my favorite looking open world games this gen, Ubisoft has a huge chuck of em, but that quality needs to match those missions, quest etc too. If they are able to do that, I think the will be fine, but I think they'll be fine regardless lol


You both make good points btw.

Consider, both of you what you are saying would find some complaint. Gamers complain about not enough content and a "cash grab" etc, yet gamers also complain about bloat and the quality of said missions, thus Ubisoft could listen to one of you and anger the other regardless lol So i think this is more difficult then people realize.

 

[The artful mincer]

This would be a good start.

And the fact that the world is vast could actually bring something of interest to the gameplay : the challenge of finding your path and finding locations with minimal clues and logical assumptions.

What I came up with took 2 minutes of thinking though, so I understand people who make open worlds never had the idea.

Instead we get people trying to fill huge worlds with stuff and being forced to resort to a ton of copy pasted and useless things to do so. Which leads for a boring, tedious experience and not even using the simplest possibilities that such a world design offers.

Death Stranding?

 

[Fake]

The blabla:
"No part of a game should be driven by 'more is better"

Meanwhile in the real word:
AC Odyssey

Far Cry 6:

Etc etc...

OMG

 

[phil_t98]

I think the Assasins creed games are amazing, map size and amount of things to do really makes the game feel like a fleshed out world. compare to GTA5 and they have a big world but not much to do outside the main tasks.

 

[winjer]

The issue is not how long the game is. It's how much of it is filler, grinding and boring quests.
Ubisoft games feel like work, not like a fun game.

 

[Tams]

The blabla:
"No part of a game should be driven by 'more is better"

Meanwhile in the real word:
AC Odyssey

Far Cry 6:

Etc etc...

Now show us the maps with only icons necessary to complete the main story line.

Bet you won't because they don't back up your argument.

 

[cireza]

Death Stranding?

Maybe ? And what I have described certainly isn't supposed to be the only feature of the game.

 

[Kupfer]

The issue is not how long the game is. It's how much of it is filler, grinding and boring quests.
Ubisoft games feel like work, not like a fun game.

This.
The last ubisoft game where bigger equals better was the jump from AC to AC 2.

 

[Bragr]

Didn't these guys talk about how the main motivation behind big games is an increase in player engagement and microtransactions not that long ago?

People spend months playing these games. That's a good thing for Ubi.

 

[Saber]

Its a big area of repetitive nothingness.

It has nothing to do with how big it is. Learn a thing or two with Elden Ring, which is fucking big but so fun and rewarding to explore.

 

[Von Hugh]

I like this comment:

"I’ve come to the conclusion that Ubisoft games are the equivalent of comfort food, like McDonald’s. Their food isn’t amazing. It’s nothing special. But sometimes you just want McDonald’s."