Support NeoGAF

[Saber]

I've got an inventory full of rune arcs that says otherwise.

Oh yeah. Rune arc, a totally useless item in the game.

 

[ANDS]

Oh yeah. Rune arc, a totally useless item in the game.

One-time use items being your reward for sniffing about the deepest corners of the games map is not a great feeling. However, my point wasn't that there was "stuff" littered about the map, it was that the map itself (and the game in general) is just as padded as these other games. You get "stuff" in AC and FC from exploring the map, stuff that is just as "useful" as rune arcs, but they are there just to have something there in the space that's not being used for the main quest. . .just like Elden Ring.

 

[Astral Dog]

Ubisoft can shit out the biggest open world games ever made for all i care i still wouldn't touch them

 

[Saber]

One-time use items being your reward for sniffing about the deepest corners of the games map is not a great feeling. However, my point wasn't that there was "stuff" littered about the map, it was that the map itself (and the game in general) is just as padded as these other games.

As I said, you aways find something usefull. Rune arc is one of most usefull itens in the game, regardless of its cons(lose effects when dying, one time use) and wheter you find this "not a great feeling".

 

[Craig of War]

Oh I know, the problem is those game are designed to be played with the HUD on.
I tried ACO but I confess I only played for 5 hours. I honestly think this game is very, very bad, despite the fact I loved AC: Origin which I finished at 98%. AC Valhalla was a little bit better (I played for 10 hours/13% done) but same as ACO I was quickly bored.

It's exaggerated for sure (though not in FC6) but the point is still valid. Ubi don't know how (or don't want) to design games without tons of informations on the screen.
The problem is that 99% of the time if you get rid of those elements you can't rely on the world to take over organically like with signs, real direction given by NPCs (like KCD) or anything else.

But I completely understand that this is really hard to do and a lot of players don't mind that, in fact I am in the minority if you look at the success of ACO and ACV.

No i don't agree with you your just trying to make a mountain out of a molehill argument with biased
Ubisoft open world games have lots of icons on the map yes but you can turn them on or off and adjust them to your liking
why is that a problem? Witcher 3 for example has tons of icons on the map which you can also turn off and adjust to your liking
so wtf are you trying to do here you don't like icons on map turn them off but if you like icons on map keep them on
it clear as day to me that people like to just complain without even actually playing the games themself

 

[bender]

So should open world only have main quests and hardly any other points of interests?

I'd take SOTC over any open world Ubisoft game. I'm not sure either approach is wrong but I prefer crafted, unique content over cut-and-paste, throw-away content, even if you get far less content this way.

 

[KyoZz]

No i don't agree with you your just trying to make a mountain out of a molehill argument with biased
Ubisoft open world games have lots of icons on the map yes but you can turn them on or off and adjust them to your liking

Sure you can deactivate everything, but then you are fucked to know where you need to go because the world is so big and not organic, not well done enough so that you can't rely on anything beside the map to know your way.
Just do the test yourself, turn everything off on the next AC game and try to progress like that. Good luck. You will most likely be able to do a few quest but quickly, you will need the map.

why is that a problem? Witcher 3 for example has tons of icons on the map which you can also turn off and adjust to your liking
so wtf are you trying to do here you don't like icons on map turn them off but if you like icons on map keep them on

On the opposite, you take Witcher as an example, but this game don't rely on the map for everything. And not everything is on the map. You need to discover for yourself.

it clear as day to me that people like to just complain without even actually playing the games themself

I showed you I played these games. It clear as day to me that you can't take any criticism about those games
.
But that's not even the main subject of the topic, Ubi games are bloated with content. Badly bloated. Maybe this is not something you dislike but we just share different opinion. That's it.

 

[Craig of War]

KyoZz​

Im tired of having to keep explaining this ok
It called having options ok you might not like it but other people do
so you want them to cater to you only and ignore the vast majority of their playerbase that like them?
seriously Ubisoft games have tons of options and settings you don't like something turn them off
it that simple no need to keep crying posting pic of map icons which you can disable in the settings if you want it to be more Elden Ring like lol so stop with this already it geting tiring making the same stupid point over and over again

 

[Umbasaborne]

Being smaller would be good. I recently replayed ac brotherhood and revelations. They are relatively small (compared to the entire nations that make up modern assassins games) and the activities are repetitive, but the games dont overstay their welcome. The campaings in those titles were 10-15 hours max. I should mention i liked ac origins, loved odyssey, but valhalla was just too much for me. Odyssey was fun to go back to for almost 200 hours because the gameplay was fun. It was just to heavy in valhalla

 

[Dr. Claus]

KyoZz​

Im tired of having to keep explaining this ok
It called having options ok you might not like it but other people do
so you want them to cater to you only and ignore the vast majority of their playerbase that like them?
seriously Ubisoft games have tons of options and settings you don't like something turn them off
it that simple no need to keep crying posting pic of map icons which you can disable in the settings if you want it to be more Elden Ring like lol so stop with this already it geting tiring making the same stupid point over and over again

And people are tired of explaining to you the downsides to the system you so ardently love. No one is telling you that you should hate these games, so why are you making mountains out of molehills over other people’s critical response to this open world design mentality?

 

[Craig of War]

And people are tired of explaining to you the downsides to the system you so ardently love. No one is telling you that you should hate these games, so why are you making mountains out of molehills over other people’s critical response to this open world design mentality?

& im telling you i don't care as i just click start then settings than disable icons lmfao end of discussion have a good day

 

[Dr. Claus]

& im telling you i don't care as i just click start then settings than disable icons lmfao end of discussion have a good day

And people have told you that doesn’t change the actual design and progression of the game’s open world. The problem isn’t having icons alone. The problem is that the actually design of hte open world is not cohesive. There is no clear through-line of exploration, places to guide the player and allow them to explore organically.

This is something that Ubisoft used to excel at. It was so well done in games like AC2 and its Ezio spinoffs that people were able to memorize the entire city layouts and never need a map.

 

[Craig of War]

And people have told you that doesn’t change the actual design and progression of the game’s open world. The problem isn’t having icons alone. The problem is that the actually design of hte open world is not cohesive. There is no clear through-line of exploration, places to guide the player and allow them to explore organically.

That a straight up lie stop i play them games so i know that a bold face lie i explore Ass Creed and Far Cry with icons on the map and with no icons in fact you can even stumble upon quest and animals and such before you even accept a new quest so no that a lie
i know this cause unlike most of the people complaining just to complain i actually play the games lol
you might have actually have a argument with someone who has never play the game but not against me as i play them and know what the hell i am talking about

 

[EDMIX]

They are copy pasted hundreds of times.

Proceeds to praise Yakuza games.....come on now Claus, you had no issue with that for many, many titles in that series.

lacked any sense of discovery or exploration.

Prove that point sir. Actually give us the receipts on this lol

The thing with Elden Ring is that it rewards exploration, discovery

Like above, prove that you are getting something, that doesn't exist in those AC open world light RPG titles. Its too fucking much to say some shit like "lacked" and its simply not true, you just don't fucking like it, thats ok, but stop saying something is lacking something, when anyone can easily prove that you discover a shit load and or you can explore a shit load.

. The problem is that the actually design of hte open world is not cohesive. There is no clear through-line of exploration, places to guide the player and allow them to explore organically.

people were able to memorize the entire city layouts and never need a map.

To be honest I don't really think any of you guys have made a sound arguments. Actually prove you cannot explore the world organically because what exactly would be stopping you from Simply walking around the world and exploring it without a map?

So this weird complained about the map with a bunch of icons that's a literally an option to turn off makes even less sense when you start complaining about not being allowed to explore the world organically as if someone to actually stopping you from doing that...

Keep in mind those same people wouldn't have any issue technically memorizing a City layout inside of any of the other Assassin's Creed games..... you're just talking about a smaller game to a bigger game but it's not as if in that bigger game cities don't exist lol

So weather a lot of you like it or not Craig is making some sound points and very much proving that you could play those games without icons and you can stumble upon Quest so as somebody that actually played Assassin's Creed origin and odyssey and Far Cry 5, I know this to be true. You're exaggerating this too just too much of a dramatic degree like you're making it sound as if someone's going in this open-world and there's just no way for them to explore that world which simply doesn't really make a tremendous amount of sense, I would argue the recent Assassin's Creeds give you many tools to Traverse to explore at your leisure to find many random things going on without needing to actually go to the map.

I don't even understand a lot of this argument because it seems like someone's arguing for an inability to explore organically while also arguing about a map showing them where they can explore lol

Holy fucking shit I'm not surprised Ubisoft stop listening to some of the gamers because a lot of people complained about how short a game was only for them to increase content and for people to complain about that only to have people complain about being lost only for them to add more map markers only for people to complain about the option of a fucking map marker...

So let's put it this way, I understand that not every game needs to have a map filled with icons, but not every game needs to have the direction of where you need to go based on the wind or some fucking flower petals or some shit lol all it sounds like you're saying is that Assassin's Creed is not for you or games like about is not for you which I find extremely odd because if you like the Yakuza games you should understand the entire map thing with icons and even the concept of reusing a map I don't know why you even brought up the whole copy and paste thing in another post while praising the Yakuza series and then ignoring that several of those games a literally use the entire same map of easily some of the most egregious copy and paste I think I've ever seen in gaming.

Keep in mind I like the Yakuza series but I find it may be hypocritical for someone to say something like this about Assassin's Creed to then praise Yakuza it tells me clearly you're just arguing about copy and paste to back this publisher because you seemingly have no issue with that concept elsewhere lol

So I personally love the Yakuza series to so who the fuck am I to try to tell someone how bad it is to reused the geography of Far Cry 4 in that Primal game?

So if we truly have a problem with some of these elements at the very least let's be honest about that instead of trying to cherry-pick when we want to be against those elements it tells me a lot of this has more to do with Ubisoft being a very easy target to complain about neck beard stuff over lol

Sorry for the baby tree lol

All this sounds like is you just dislike the game, not that it lacks any of that shit.

 

[R6Rider]

That FC6 map is extremely disingenuous. I hate having maps filled with icons and can say for a fact that FC6 isn't that bad at all.

 

[Dr. Claus]

That a straight up lie stop i play them games so i know that a bold face lie i explore Ass Creed and Far Cry with icons on the map and with no icons in fact you can even stumble upon quest and animals and such before you even accept a new quest so no that a lie
i know this cause unlike most of the people complaining just to complain i actually play the games lol
you might have actually have a argument with someone who has never play the game but not against me as i play them and know what the hell i am talking about

I also play them, as have many others in this thread that are actively telling you otherwise. But its easier for fanboys like yourself and EDMIX to shut out any other voice and dismiss it as “haters” or how everyone is “lying”. Again, no one is telling you to stop playing or to hate these games and their design. Myself and others want to see evolution in the open world design instead of relying on the same tired formula that Ubisoft has failed to move past.

 

[Craig of War]

I also play them, as have many others in this thread that are actively telling you otherwise. But its easier for fanboys like yourself and EDMIX to shut out any other voice and dismiss it as “haters” or how everyone is “lying”. Again, no one is telling you to stop playing or to hate these games and their design. Myself and others want to see evolution in the open world design instead of relying on the same tired formula that Ubisoft has failed to move past.

Who is telling me otherwise some one that has never play it ? who? unlike you and some other people that just like to attack Ubisoft games and post pic of icons on it map wile they have not even bother to play it I and EDMIX we actually play the games that why when we see stuff that are false we have to reply to stop the baseless slander

 

[EDMIX]

But its easier for fanboys like yourself and EDMIX to shut out any other voice and dismiss it as “haters” or how everyone is “lying”.

No reason to name call number 1, number 2....as someone that played those games, I don't see enough here to state one can't play it without the map and discover things or that one can't explore or something.

None of those games actually "lack" that, this is simply exaggerating to a massive degree.

Look, its ok to not like a game and like how another game does something, but I don't see the need in this weird argument of then trying to pretend those games now lack those elements, you simply don't care for those games, thats as much as I can tell from the post you made btw.

No one here has even actually fucking proven those elements don't exist in those titles or something based on the bare definition of those terms. Nothing is being discovered? No way to explore? Do they lock your fucking feet or something? You help me understand the claim, you can't just say "fanboyz" and say "lacks" and then give zero proof of what you are talking about, so its easier to just say you dislike those game, then to argue that they don't have those elements or can't be played this way or that way or something.

Someone can memorize those cities in the new AC titles if they felt like it no different then someone can do that in the old titles.

Someone can discover many things in those games as they have random encounters without the use of the map.

Someone can in a boat, vehicle etc and explore and find random quest, encounters, items etc while looking around aka exploring.

I'm not fucking saying this as some massive Far Cry or AC fan as sir, I don't even go around doing shit like um

memorize the entire city layouts and never need a map

or anything like that. Never played all the AC titles, never played all the Far Cry titles, I'm just making the point that no one here has even really made a sound argument with real evidence to argue those things DON'T EXIST in those titles.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Who is telling me otherwise some one that has never play it ? who? unlike you and some other people that just like to attack Ubisoft games and post pic of icons on it map wile they have not even bother to play it I and EDMIX we actually play the games that why when we see stuff that are false we have to reply to stop the baseless slander

Now people are just attacking Ubisoft? Mate, get off the internet for a bit. You and Edmix both need to chill out with this rather... strange obsession with a company and your desperate need to try and dismiss any valid criticism and defend a company that doesn't even know you exist.

 

[EDMIX]

Now people are just attacking Ubisoft? Mate, get off the internet for a bit. You and Edmix both need to chill out with this rather... strange obsession with a company and your desperate need to try and dismiss any valid criticism and defend a company that doesn't even know you exist.

? I never once said you hate or are bashing the publisher, I don't see the need in saying I must have an obsession with the publisher to disagree with you.

I'd argue Craig has given more valid reasons why what you've stated isn't true, then you've given to your own point being a valid thing.



I stand by my statement.

You can memorize cities in really any AC title, I don't see why you couldn't and you haven't proven anything to show it can't be done or something.

I don't see any evidence that their is a lack if discovery, you can very much find many random quest, encounters and items by actually....looking and discovering them lol

I don't see anything to say lack of exploration in titles where they are literally giving vehicles to do that very thing.

Definition of DISCOVERY

the act or process of discovering; disclosure; display… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of EXPLORATION

the act or an instance of exploring… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

So if you went to a location an found nothing and the game offered nothing for going there, I'd agree you don't discover anything.
If the game gave no ability to traverse outside of just running, maybe I can agree with the exploration thing, like if you couldn't really go much places or something.

That has nothing to do with being a fanboy, I'd tell you this even if I fucking hated those games. The fact remains, you can do those things in those games, they exist in those games, I don't see any evidence of anything lacking in that area. I even agree with the quest being padded out, like a lot, I even agree with so many fetch quest, but sir....I can't just lie and say lacks discovery, exploration etc where I'd argue that is what those games do by default of the term, regardless if you think its good or not.

I'd tell you this even if I didn't play those games.
Didn't buy Far Cry 6, didn't buy AC Valhalla. I'm disagreeing with you cause you and many others have failed to make real valid points in those concepts lacking in those series. Your only argument can't just be "dem fanboys" or "obsession".

 

[Zeroing]

It’s not the size that matters, it’s what and how you do with it!

Does what a sexual connotation somehow

 

[geary]

Yes, it's an Ubisoft problem

 

[Fredrik]

Eh, I would argue even if they didn't have the copious amounts of map clutter, the actual map designs themselves would still be incredibly weak. Nothing feels organic. City layouts and locations feel copy and pasted and more like they felt they *needed* something there. INstead of just making a tightly designed world.

Otherwise I agree with everything you said.

The map and cities in the Assassin’s games are based on the real world so it is what it is. The out in the open smaller forts are often too similar though. Origin had way too many of those, sand everywhere didn’t help either, I liked the story in that game but otherwise it was too samey for me. I can’t hate on Odyssey even though I’m sure it share the same issues, the sunny weather and clear water are doing tricks with my mind, for me it has always been an underrated game.

 

[luffie]

Its a big area of repetitive nothingness.

It has nothing to do with how big it is. Learn a thing or two with Elden Ring, which is fucking big but so fun and rewarding to explore.

But then they would have to put in effort .

Elden Ring designed their map very deliberately, down to the way to what you can see and how you can explore. If there's a secret area, they'll let you see it, but figure out how to get there.

Meanwhile Ubi's map is just mostly procedural generation, then manually edited to pepper some event site and repeat it across the maps. Without their maps, you wouldn't be able to explore their world easily.

 

[Kamina]

Yes, it's an Ubisoft problem

Those are just bonfires and machine sites. A marker heavy map doesn’t automatically mean you see mostly side content.
Horizon is very light on optional content compared to ubisoft games.

Anyway, i dont really agree with the criticism. It is my choice if i want to engage with these optional „time–wasters“.
AC Valhalla was a pretty nice game for me. I explored the world to upgrade my stuff and find some secrets while doing to the main quests and never felt that most of it was cookie cutter content or repetitive; probably because i just never engaged with the actual repetitive content.
All in all this criticism feels like „map-marker-rage“.

 

[Craig of War]

Now people are just attacking Ubisoft? Mate, get off the internet for a bit. You and Edmix both need to chill out with this rather... strange obsession with a company and your desperate need to try and dismiss any valid criticism and defend a company that doesn't even know you exist.

Yes people are attack Ubisoft they are it is a pattern there are many open world games with lots of icons on it map it not just Ubisoft
but i keep seeing post of pic of Ubisoft game maps with exaggerated icons
& i have no obsession with Ubisoft
i play their games does not make me obessed with it lol
and you call me a fanboy? cause i unlike many on here don't hate Ubisoft that make me a fanboy?
I play many types and genre of games from Sony to Microsoft to Steam i am not a fanboy of no one

 

[jigglet]

It’s only a problem for people in this forum - more refined tastes, time poor.

When I was a kid and could only afford one game a year and would be happy to play anything from shit-tier to AAA, the ubi formula would have been the best thing ever.

I think the formula appeals to the masses. Whether that’s good or not is a different story.

 

[Urban]

Yes, it's an Ubisoft problem

For me Horizon feels like a Ubisoft game.
I don’t like Ubisoft games for that reason. Because they feel like work

They copy paste all the content and say : here is content. But after 10 hrs in their open world games you see everything that the game offers.

 

[Urban]

If a game shows you all the poi on the map than you know that the space between those points are irrelevant . You know that only those marked checkpoints matter and thus taking the exploring part out of the game.

 

[Jibran#one]

Unlike people here I actually enjoyed all ac games before Valhalla, Valhalla although the main quest is good and all , and being a fan of vikings have so much filler pointless content that it just turned me off from any future ac games.
Valhalla is the perfect example of how not to do a big ooen world game.
90 percent of that game is typical ubisoft junk

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

The blabla:
"No part of a game should be driven by 'more is better"

Meanwhile in the real word:
AC Odyssey

Far Cry 6:

Etc etc...

Lol all the triggered Ubi lovers.

 

[nemiroff]

Why are some people complaining about big games.. I don't get it, I'm 255 hours into Elden Ring and still having a blast. If you enjoy a game for 100 hours, then get tired at 110, it's fine, unless you have serious case of OCD then just stop playing it, move on! Devs can make the quest end achievable by reasonable time and there should be no problem.

 

[samoilaaa]

So should open world only have main quests and hardly any other points of interests?

thats not the point , the point is 70-80% of what you see on those maps is useless shit , filler stuff to get your game to 50-60 hours playthrough , there is no meaning to any of it

if you as a company manage to add that many points of interest and all of them are good side quests , treasures with worthy loot and stuff like that by all means do it but when you force me to conquer as many points of interest to lv up because thats the only way you can progress the story then all i have to say is fuck you and your game

if i want to farm i go play an online game

 

[InfiniteCombo]

I was actually a big fan of the Assassin's Creed series, but nope'd the fuck out when I read about how big Origins was. And it sounds like with each successive entry (Odyssey and Valhalla) the series is getting even bigger.

By the time I finished Rogue, I was getting burned out on the series anyway. Specifically the maps filled with a lot of useless shit.

 

[Gamezone]

Open world games are great, if you have the time to complete them. As a full time worker I usually stick with 8-15 hours long single player games with good stories.

 

[kyussman]

When you make your game worlds as big as Ubisoft have been doing the problem is filling them with things to do......their game design choice has been to give players the same ten things to do over and over and over again......I don't think that's good game design.