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[Griffon]

How well does it actually run Switch games though?

Not great. Yuzu is very demanding and many games can't maintain a stable framerate even at 1/2 the original resolution.

You're better off playing your games on a real switch.

 

[Bragr]

I didn't buy the intention. I bought the product. What I do with said product isn't anyone else's concern. I have nothing against using the product in the "intended" way so long as the "intended" way is also the most enjoyable/efficient/choose your adjective here.

But I as the end user have full autonomy to make that decision. And while it's clearly a challenge for some to see the forest for the trees, that autonomy is a huge plus that extends FAR beyond some silly little emulator.

And the product.....doesn't......work......on......anything. But a Switch.

The product you bought. Is Switch only. It's not made for anything else. It doesn't run on anything else. Unless you cheat the system and misuse the product.

 

[DemonGamerTTT]

And the product.....doesn't......work......on......anything. But a Switch.

The product you bought. Is Switch only. It's not made for anything else. It doesn't run on anything else. Unless you cheat the system and misuse the product.

Dude stop with those desilusions...

Like I've said you have no idea of what you're talking about... There's no "made for anything else" it is SOFTWARE and if the compatibility is right it will run, end of story.

You're freaking out with the most bullshit dumb argument ever... If a person has a screwdriver that forcefully works with the wrong screw type do you call that person "pirate" as well ? Is that person hurting the manufactory company by not using the right screwdriver ?

You're the kind of guy that's against the self repair movement because XD we are customers and are not "intended" to repair shit we buy... right ?

 

[PendekarRajawali]

Valve HQ now

 

[Bragr]

Dude stop with those desilusions...

Like I've said you have no idea of what you're talking about... There's no "made for anything else" it is SOFTWARE and if the compatibility is right it will run, end of story.

You're freaking out with the most bullshit dumb argument ever... If a person has a screwdriver that forcefully works with the wrong screw type do you call that person "pirate" as well ? Is that person hurting the manufactory company by not using the right screwdriver ?

You're the kind of guy that's against the self repair movement because XD we are customers and are not "intended" to repair shit we buy... right ?

Jesus almighty. A screwdriver is not made for specific screws like exclusive console games. And the self-repair movement HAHAHA, what a fuck?

The entire year-long process they spend millions of dollars on. It's specifically made for the system. To be used on the system. If they didn't have the system, they wouldn't have made them.

If everyone was scummy, there would be no exclusive console games.

 

[daveonezero]

I should use ignore more often.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

It's already the better handheld without emulation

 

[LazyParrot]

You can make all the conjectures you wish but it doesn't change that there is no proof that Nintendo sold roms sourced from Internet because the presence of the iNES header can't prove it.

Just like it can't prove that they didn't do it. If anything, the whole "They hired this guy and he re-implemented iNES headers even though his own emulator didn't require them and they had header-free ROMs available the entire time" argument is even more reliant on asumptions and conjecture than anything I've put forth.

If you've read the link in my previous post you'd know that there were cases of Nintendo employees downloading roms from the Internet for development purpose, this info was acquired by sifting through internal e-mails contained in the massive data breach that hit Nintendo.

I don't see how proof of Nintendo "pirating" ROMs supports your argument. If anything, it supports mine.

Yet in the same there is no evidence that the public releases weren't source by Nintendo itself, in fact a lot of same internal e-mails asked for specific lotcheck ROMs, including for games that were downloaded from Internet, which suggests that when it’s about the public use, they’re genuinely hellbent on using ROMs sourced from themselves.

You've said it yourself: their own internal ROMs don't have iNES headers. The ones used for AC and the Wii VC do. If anything, shouldn't this be considered evidence that they didn't request their own ROMs in this case?

Ask to Nintendo employees why they decided to adopt a standard developed by outside programmers and while you are at it ask'em why they used their own .qd format for their Famicom re-releases.

So you don't have an answer either. Gotcha.

 

[Soodanim]

Dear Nintendo,

I am writing to you today because I have purchased your divine gifts (others call them consoles and games but I don't think that's respectful enough), and I humbly seek your wisdom. I ask that you tell me exactly what you ask of me from the things I paid you good money for, because as my chosen deity I would suffer eternal shame should I ever step out of line and do something you didn't explicitly plan for me.​

​

Whilst a tool made for one job may serve unforeseen purposes, I solemnly swear that I will never commit such a heinous act of disobedience. My father once used a PlayStation controller on a PC, and I immediately disowned him because that's not the system it was made for. I called the police and told them that he's cheating and that he's a wretched villain, but they didn't understand how severe of a transgression it was. Nobody gets you like I do. As a demonstration of devotion, I have navigated to your digital store and made purchases out of love and respect. I didn't even look to see what they were, my enjoyment comes from making you happy.​

​

I have to go now, I can hear my brother talking about the Ocarina of Time PC recreation and I need to explain to him that the only right and proper thing to do is to play your shitty port, as that is your will. I may have to disown him, too.​

Truly yours,
Your biggest fan,
Stan xxx

 

[Naru]

Very good.

Not great.

 

[Chukhopops]

From my quick testing it’s comparable to Switch hardware more or less. Some games work better, some more poorly. A lot of games have to be locked to 30 fps since their logic is tied to the framerate. Some can reach 40 fps which is a nice improvement.

And of course it’s only useful for games with no PC version.

Maybe it can be improved with a bit more tinkering but that doesn’t seem worth it if you have a switch and the games already.

 

[JimboJones]

Maybe it can be improved with a bit more tinkering but that doesn’t seem worth it if you have a switch and the games already.

I have a Switch and Steam deck and ultimately didn't think it was worth it but after this thread and reading the garbage being typed by Bragr it's changed my mind lol.

 

[64bitmodels]

I heard that when this topic reaches 5 pages nintendo will exit the console business. Thread carefully

CMON EVERYONE, POST AS MUCH AS YOU CAN!!! KEEP THE THREAD ALIVE
EVERYONE WHO POSTS IN THIS THREAD GETS GOLD FROM ME (this is not a promise....or even something i will do)

 

[Ron Mexico]

there would be no exclusive console games.

All this time to get to the actual concern. If this is what's keeping you up at night, sure. Do you. It'll get summarily ignored like all other nonsensical worries but at least it gets to the heart of the "problem".

 

[Bragr]

All this time to get to the actual concern. If this is what's keeping you up at night, sure. Do you. It'll get summarily ignored like all other nonsensical worries but at least it gets to the heart of the "problem".

Pirates don't keep me up at night, but they are frustrating leeches.

But a person has to have some affinity for the games/devs to care. Hence why you guys don't give a shit.

 

[Dreamin]

If everyone was scummy, there would be no exclusive console games.

I don't know what's scummy about it but that'd probably be really cool.

 

[Edgelord79]

Meh. Nintendo has some of the silliest practices so my fucks are Malthusian in scope to begin with.

The reality is this. If you release your products in a less than stellar ecosystem, don’t complain when users find a way to better their user experience from a product they already legally purchased.

 

[Bragr]

I don't know what's scummy about it but that'd probably be really cool.

You are aware that most of the top games are exclusive? and that they are so good because of exclusive practices?

Unless you are a Fortnite/Overwatch-only player, the removal of exclusives would be a disaster.

 

[Edgelord79]

XD I know that this forum has some sick fanboys but this is hilarious.

Who gives a fuck about what Nintendo wants ? You bought the game and you can put it in whatever you want... Its just like you're saying that if you bought a Sony TV so you can only watch Sony tv shows... dumbest shit ever

Hardware and software are not the same and no person ever signed a contract saying that they are obliged to run said software in some specific underpowered shit hardware

I think it’s legal to play a game in an emulator as long as you own it isn’t it?

 

[Bragr]

Meh. Nintendo has some of the silliest practices so my fucks are Malthusian in scope to begin with.

The reality is this. If you release your products in a less than stellar ecosystem, don’t complain when users find a way to better their user experience from a product they already legally purchased.

You can find excuses to be a dick to everything and everyone by using this sort of logic. Playing games on the Switch is perfectly fine, it's not 480p.

 

[Edgelord79]

You can find excuses to be a dick to everything and everyone by using this sort of logic. Playing games on the Switch is perfectly fine, it's not 480p.

What?

 

[Edgelord79]

What?

I deliberately didn’t respond to you because your are being extremely sensitive to this for some reason.

This “logic” is fact. Consumers WIlLL find a better place to use the products they purchased if it’s significantly better. I don’t care if you like it.

 

[Edgelord79]

I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know if it’s legal to play games you own on an emulator, but if it is, this is a moot discussion.

 

[Bragr]

I deliberately didn’t respond to you because your are being extremely sensitive to this for some reason.

This “logic” is fact. Consumers WIlLL find a better place to use the products they purchased if it’s significantly better. I don’t care if you like it.

You seem to care a great deal.

Talking to people who emulate a lot is like talking to an addict who tells you he needs 10 bucks for a bus ticket. They try to make it out like they are ripping every game and buying every system, but 9 out of 10 times they pirate and they use excuses to justify it.

That consumers will find new ways to use a product is one of these excuses. Playing on the Switch is fine, it's not a fucking gameboy, and absolutely having to rip the games to get better resolutions has nothing to do with consumer choices, it's because they are used to playing one way and wanna continue to play like that. They don't want to use different systems.

Emulating old games that are out of production is perfectly fine. But console-exclusive games are made exclusively for specific consoles. And it's petty and cheap to go around that.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Pirates don't keep me up at night, but they are frustrating leeches.

But a person has to have some affinity for the games/devs to care. Hence why you guys don't give a shit.

I absolutely have an affinity to the games and devs-- it's the exact reason why I want to play their work under the best possible circumstances.

Brings back days in my first apartment some 20+ years ago now where I spent an entire weekend ripping my CD collection so I could load all of my music onto this new little device and carry my entire library with me. But they weren't meant to be played on an iPod.

I bought a good bit from GOG when they first launched as I still enjoyed titles back from when I was a teenager and would care about my favorite piece of plastic. But they weren't meant to be played on a modern PC.

Have an M1 MacBook Pro that my wife and I use in part for our business. It runs an emulation layer to run software that wasn't meant to be run on Apple silicon.

Again, want people to play your beloved software on your beloved hardware? Make that beloved hardware the best way to do it. We've had this argument but since you can't attack the argument you attack the person with this piracy nonsense.

Been around far too long to take the piracy accusations seriously but the argument is just sad. Are there pirates out there? Sure are. Does that mean a single iota for me as a paying customer? Not a bit. We have shitty customers in our business. There are always going to be a subset of the customer base that will want something for nothing. You chalk it up to the cost of doing business and move on with your life. Your business is either strong enough to succeed or it's not. And if it's not, someone else will step in as the cream will always rise to the top.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

I wonder what that application is used for.....

 

[Edgelord79]

You seem to care a great deal.

Talking to people who emulate a lot is like talking to an addict who tells you he needs 10 bucks for a bus ticket. They try to make it out like they are ripping every game and buying every system, but 9 out of 10 times they pirate and they use excuses to justify it.

That consumers will find new ways to use a product is one of these excuses. Playing on the Switch is fine, it's not a fucking gameboy, and absolutely having to rip the games to get better resolutions has nothing to do with consumer choices, it's because they are used to playing one way and wanna continue to play like that. They don't want to use different systems.

Emulating old games that are out of production is perfectly fine. But console-exclusive games are made exclusively for specific consoles. And it's petty and cheap to go around that.

Is emulating games you own legal?

 

[Bragr]

I absolutely have an affinity to the games and devs-- it's the exact reason why I want to play their work under the best possible circumstances.

Brings back days in my first apartment some 20+ years ago now where I spent an entire weekend ripping my CD collection so I could load all of my music onto this new little device and carry my entire library with me. But they weren't meant to be played on an iPod.

I bought a good bit from GOG when they first launched as I still enjoyed titles back from when I was a teenager and would care about my favorite piece of plastic. But they weren't meant to be played on a modern PC.

Have an M1 MacBook Pro that my wife and I use in part for our business. It runs an emulation layer to run software that wasn't meant to be run on Apple silicon.

Again, want people to play your beloved software on your beloved hardware? Make that beloved hardware the best way to do it. We've had this argument but since you can't attack the argument you attack the person with this piracy nonsense.

Been around far too long to take the piracy accusations seriously but the argument is just sad. Are there pirates out there? Sure are. Does that mean a single iota for me as a paying customer? Not a bit. We have shitty customers in our business. There are always going to be a subset of the customer base that will want something for nothing. You chalk it up to the cost of doing business and move on with your life. Your business is either strong enough to succeed or it's not. And if it's not, someone else will step in as the cream will always rise to the top.

I can't see it as being an argument for affinity if you rip stuff to play on other devices it's not made for. That's anti-affinity.

Those GOG games are redone to be played on a new machine. That's what GOG is for. Music is not made for specific systems. Nintendo and Sony, on the other hand, are not separate from the games they make in this manner, one would not exist without the other.

This argument of the hardware not being enough is only viable if the hardware is a complete farce. The Switch is not that, the subsection of consumers using Switch games in other ways are people who are already used to emulating. It's a cultural thing. If you use the Switch and find it so hard to use you have to use a PC, the problem is your own narrow view and the routines you are used to. 99% of users don't find this to be an issue, it's solely in the emulating crowd who demand to use games through emulation.

Piracy must come up in this discussion because it's so widespread through this software. If you use meth in small dosages, it doesn't mean meth is a good thing generally. Emulating new games and piracy goes hand in hand.

 

[Bragr]

Is emulating games you own legal?

If you buy them and rip them yourselves.

It is legal to jailbreak too, but it's a huge gray zone, it helps developers and is necessary, but the use cases for it are a big issue. It's the same with ripping games except it hurts more, as it leads to massive piracy.

 

[ManaByte]

If you buy them and rip them yourselves.

It should be a requirement for anyone talking about a Switch emulator to post a picture of the hardware they used to rip their own carts.

 

[RoadHazard]

Bullshit numbers coming out of your ass.
i use an FPGA emulator and all the stuff i really play is stuff i own

Yeah, I would say the actual number is likely to be far higher, probably like 98-99%. The people actually ripping their own games are a very, very small minority. Of course there are people who DO do that (including you I'm sure), especially on this board where they are bound to be overrepresented, but the vast majority of people using any emulator are playing pirated games on it.

 

[Edgelord79]

If you buy them and rip them yourselves.

It is legal to jailbreak too, but it's a huge gray zone, it helps developers and is necessary, but the use cases for it are a big issue. It's the same with ripping games except it hurts more, as it leads to massive piracy.

Can you cite where it’s not legal to download game ROMs of games you physically own? Or is this the grey area you were discussing?

If it’s not illegal to do so, then the issue you have is a moral one. I’m not dismissing it, I’m just saying there is a moral argument to be made the other way too.

 

[RoadHazard]

Can you cite where it’s not legal to download game ROMs of games you physically own? Or is this the grey area you were discussing?

If it’s not illegal to do so, then the issue you have is a moral one. I’m not dismissing it, I’m just saying there is a moral argument to be made the other way too.

In the EU it 100% it. Not sure about America, but I'd imagine it's the same. You're downloading illegally distributed software whether you own a separate copy of it or not.

What you ARE allowed to do is make backups for personal use. But not share those backups with everyone on the internet.

 

[Edgelord79]

In the EU it 100% it. Not sure about America, but I'd imagine it's the same. You're downloading illegally distributed software whether you own a separate copy of it or not.

What you ARE allowed to do is make backups for personal use. But not share those backups with everyone on the internet.

I can’t find anything definitive at all for North America. Everything I read is conflicting or grey. Which makes me think it’s not cut and dried. Most things I’m reading are not from legal experts just game sites.

Be cool if someone with actual legal knowledge could chime in.

Maybe Hoeg Law has broached the topic?

 

[Edgelord79]

In the EU it 100% it. Not sure about America, but I'd imagine it's the same. You're downloading illegally distributed software whether you own a separate copy of it or not.

What you ARE allowed to do is make backups for personal use. But not share those backups with everyone on the internet.

What’s the difference between the backup and downloaded file? Is it just semantics at this point?

 

[TintoConCasera]

You are aware that most of the top games are exclusive?

Sorry, but I'm real curious. Why do you believe this?

 

[RoadHazard]

What’s the difference between the backup and downloaded file? Is it just semantics at this point?

The backup you make yourself from your own legally owned copy. The download someone else has made, and is not yours to legally download and use.

You could argue that if they are identical rips of the same game down to the last bit, aren't they the same file? Well, maybe, but they're still separate copies of that file, and you're not allowed to download a copy someone else has made.

 

[Bragr]

Can you cite where it’s not legal to download game ROMs of games you physically own? Or is this the grey area you were discussing?

If it’s not illegal to do so, then the issue you have is a moral one. I’m not dismissing it, I’m just saying there is a moral argument to be made the other way too.

Only using your own game files is legal. The emulators, like yuzu, state on their site that you are legally required to use your own games.

 

[Bragr]

Sorry, but I'm real curious. Why do you believe this?

Track record, look at the top-rated games, it's a clear trend. Another is the support that publishers give the developers, they get more time, more money, and a huge marketing campaign. It all leads to better games.

But there is a lot more to it, the console makers build parts of their business around it, and it would gut their entire model to change this. Who knows what would happen to Nintendo without the Nintendo exclusives. Exclusivity is more important than ever and drives business and reasons to build platforms, like Game Pass. Without exclusivity, Microsoft would just consume everything on the market, why buy a Playstation or a Nintendo console if they didn't offer their own unique experiences.

 

[Soodanim]

Often the legality comes down to distribution vs downloading. It's sometimes legal to download, but not legal to distribute. That would make sense, because a bit-perfect replica of a game is bit-perfect regardless of a rip or a download, but giving it out is the offence.

I don't know where that is or isn't the case, and in some places it applies to music and movies but not games, making things more confusing

 

[Edgelord79]

The backup you make yourself from your own legally owned copy. The download someone else has made, and is not yours to legally download and use.

You could argue that if they are identical rips of the same game down to the last bit, aren't they the same file? Well, maybe, but they're still separate copies of that file, and you're not allowed to download a copy someone else has made.

Ok but that distinction actually been made in a court of law?

 

[Edgelord79]

I’m seeing a lot of claims being made, but I still can’t find factual evidence anywhere to back this up for North America. I’ll I can find is differing opinions which doesn’t mean a whole lot.

 

[CrustyBritches]

What’s the difference between the backup and downloaded file? Is it just semantics at this point?

It's semantics, except in the case of the person distributing the file. People throw around the term "illegal", but if I were to walk down to the police station with my kid's Switch and his Deck, and say, "Hey, I bought BoTW on this Switch, but I downloaded it on a PC and now I'm playing it on this Deck. I'm turning myself in and willing to submit to whatever the consequences are for this illegal crime I committed." what would be the outcome? I would suppose I'd get told to fuck off, or possibly get red-flagged for mental health issues.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

This thread

 

[Guilty_AI]

Posting a Steam Deck playing BotW with mods just to piss off Brarg

 

[Celine]

You've said it yourself: their own internal ROMs don't have iNES headers. The ones used for AC and the Wii VC do. If anything, shouldn't this be considered evidence that they didn't request their own ROMs in this case?

No, the presence of the iNES header cannot be considered an evidence because as I've already explained Nintendo could have decided to adopt the iNES standard.
In fact (again through an illegal data breach) we know Nintendo has tools for such purposes.

So you don't have an answer either. Gotcha.

I see you didn't catch my hint ;-)
Your conjectures are based on the presence of iNES file format (format developed by outside* programmers which became a standard) in the roms included with Animal Crossing (and later Wii VC etc.) but you are probably unaware that the same could be said for the Famicom roms in Animal Crossing only this time with an internal* format (.qd) instead of the standard .fds format, which of course leaves no doubt Nintendo was the source.
Your idea that the presence of a header automatically means Nintendo are selling roms sourced from Internet is fallacious.

I would remind you that our little exchange started from your claim that [ROM sold by Nintendo] "was almost certainly pirated" which is quite a bold statement since there is no concrete evidence that support it.
The burden of proof is up to you.

EDIT: * relative to Nintendo.

 

[Edgelord79]

Only using your own game files is legal. The emulators, like yuzu, state on their site that you are legally required to use your own games.

Those types of disclaimers are standard across a wide range of practices. They are just trying to absolve themselves of potential liability across a wide area. That doesn’t mean it’s correct in that user’s region.

 

[Bragr]

Posting a Steam Deck playing BotW with mods just to piss off Brarg

The contrast looks like shit. Looks better on the Switch.

 

[Bragr]

Those types of disclaimers are standard across a wide range of practices. They are just trying to absolve themselves of potential liability across a wide area. That doesn’t mean it’s correct in that user’s region.

As I said, it's a gray area. However, this falls under copyright and trademarks and whatnot which means you need permission to use it outside of the creator's restrictions. Hence, why it's only legal to rip games you already own to use on your own devices and not share with others because then it goes under different laws.

 

[Bragr]

It's semantics, except in the case of the person distributing the file. People throw around the term "illegal", but if I were to walk down to the police station with my kid's Switch and his Deck, and say, "Hey, I bought BoTW on this Switch, but I downloaded it on a PC and now I'm playing it on this Deck. I'm turning myself in and willing to submit to whatever the consequences are for this illegal crime I committed." what would be the outcome? I would suppose I'd get told to fuck off, or possibly get red-flagged for mental health issues.

Try it. They would take the device.