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Valve’s latest Steam Deck video featured a Switch emulator.

Bragr

Banned
Stop being such a corporate shill.
It's the same as ripping a cd you own and playing it on your phone instead of a cd player.
No, it's not lol. It's like if someone hacked an Xbox Series X to play Playstation 5 games, and never used their Playstation 5.
 

Bragr

Banned
Not a shortcut. It's much more effort.

Of course it's about being online or offline, because you made it about that. If you're offline you aren't in the eShop buying random games, so by your logic you're just as much as a waste to Nintendo as someone who rips games using the bought and paid for console and games because you aren't in there browsing so you can give Nintendo more money.

You know what a reasonable interaction is with Nintendo products? Same as any other. You buy the hardware, buy the software you like - as much or as little as you see fit - then do whatever you want with it. The experience Nintendo or any other company "intends" means fuck all unless you're some sort of devoted superfan.

No one cares what Nintendo wants you to do except you, and I still don't get why you do. Are you also short-changing Nintendo if you don't buy a Switch Pro Controller? Does that make it more acceptable to do what you want with the games you paid for?

Again, think about who we're talking about. The sort of people ripping Switch games either know exactly what's there already or they were never going to buy from the eShop in the first place, because they want to take them OFF the console to play on better hardware. That type of person is the absolute bottom of the list when it comes to Nintendo's target demographic.

You say what we owe means nothing, but your entire argument has been that we owe it to Nintendo to be in there so that we can spend more of our money, and anything short of that is morally and ethically wrong. My argument is that your argument is wrong.

Who's stealing and cheating? We're talking about people who buy a Switch and games. We aren't talking about pirates, off the back of a lorry hardware, or anything else except paying customers.
It's a shortcut to avoid spending, and for most people, to pirate.

I did not make it about being online, it was an example. And I explained that.

The reason why intended means something is that you can get worse experiences of the product and get false impressions. It's not a big deal.

It's not about what Nintendo wants, it's why they make products. You paid for the games to be played on a Nintendo console. You didn't pay to play them on the Steamdeck. Same as God of Ragnarok is made for PS4/PS5 and not Xbox Series X.

We are not talking about pirates, but it's such an obvious connection that you can't talk about emulators without talking about pirates. In the context of new games. Older games are different.
 

Ron Mexico

Member
If Nintendo wanted me to engage with more of their software, make it more appealing to me than hoping I stumble across it in the eShop.

As it stands, I like to tinker. I have a hacked Switch. I have a Switch Lite. I have a Switch OLED. And I have a Steam Deck.

I ripped my own titles because I like to tinker. I only ripped a handful because I'm 42 and only have so many hours to play them and running them on better hardware because I can. Same reason I'll upscale older generation stuff. I can.

If it were just a matter of "omg what if piracy means I won't get the titles I want" is the concern, fine. Own it. But these engagement arguments are just nonsensical.

And thus I remember why I avoid most all console threads.
 
It's not the same as a PC port. Nintendo makes Nintendo games for their own systems, that in turn increases engagement and the likelihood of Nintendo purchases and services. It's an ecosystem, Nintendo makes products to build that system. Just like the Steamdeck is a portal to the Steam store, if people reformat the thing and only use it for Game Pass, it would have no value for Valve.

Even if you could make an argument that it's fine, there is almost no one who only rip games they bought. People pirate. This whole discussion is an excuse.
XD I know that this forum has some sick fanboys but this is hilarious.

Who gives a fuck about what Nintendo wants ? You bought the game and you can put it in whatever you want... Its just like you're saying that if you bought a Sony TV so you can only watch Sony tv shows... dumbest shit ever

Hardware and software are not the same and no person ever signed a contract saying that they are obliged to run said software in some specific underpowered shit hardware
 
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jdforge

Banned
Hilarious the lengths people go to defend this. We all know 90% of the people who play ROMs don’t own the games and are pirating.

Fuck sake like.
 
Nice One GIF by Justin
 

Soodanim

Member
It's a shortcut to avoid spending
"Buying a Switch and games to rip them to play on your PC is a shortcut to not spending."

I can't be bothered with the rest of the post (it's all bollocks anyway), but this is incredible. I don't know what you are, but I do know you're a specimen that needs to be studied then put to use. The creative thinking needed to jump through mental hoops like that could help solve some of science's greatest problems.

I'm a big fan of how you equate Nintendo to a disease that you catch by contact and which forces you to buy more Nintendo products.

Bravo. Does he have an encore in him?
 
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Bragr

Banned
XD I know that this forum has some sick fanboys but this is hilarious.

Who gives a fuck about what Nintendo wants ? You bought the game and you can put it in whatever you want... Its just like you're saying that if you bought a Sony TV so you can only watch Sony tv shows... dumbest shit ever

Hardware and software are not the same and no person ever signed a contract saying that they are obliged to run said software in some specific underpowered shit hardware
There are a lot of gray area activities that are legal to do that you shouldn't partake in.

The Sony TV is not made for Sony products, it's made as an all-purpose TV.

But Nintendo is not. It's only made for Nintendo products. You have to use special software to bypass it and get the games to run on the PC or Deck.

If Sony made a Sony TV that could only play Sony products, and you had to hack your TV to get it to run other stuff, it would be the same. You are supposed to run it on underpowered hardware, that's why they make it, it's unplayable on other systems out of the box. If everyone was scummy like this, Nintendo wouldn't have a business.
 

FStubbs

Member
It's dumb for Valve to support piracy on the Steamdeck. Valve needs Steamdeck users to buy Steam games to make money. Whoever made that video with the emulator was probably quietly reprimanded.

So for all the Nintendo haters in this topic who think pirating Nintendo games on the Deck hurts Nintendo, you're hurting Valve too.
 
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There are a lot of gray area activities that are legal to do that you shouldn't partake in.

The Sony TV is not made for Sony products, it's made as an all-purpose TV.

But Nintendo is not. It's only made for Nintendo products. You have to use special software to bypass it and get the games to run on the PC or Deck.

If Sony made a Sony TV that could only play Sony products, and you had to hack your TV to get it to run other stuff, it would be the same. You are supposed to run it on underpowered hardware, that's why they make it, it's unplayable on other systems out of the box. If everyone was scummy like this, Nintendo wouldn't have a business.

I'm not discussing pirating...

My point it's about your blind/dumb obsession with playing x software on x hardware.

If you buy anything that thing is yours and you can indeed run it wherever you want.

And NO Nintendo does not lose money if you legitimately buy a game and play it on non "proper" hardware they get the SAME sale cut regardless.

That's so dumb I can barely talk about without burst into laugh. It's like saying that if you bought a game but left it on your shelf instead of inserting it on switch hurts Nintendo.
 

Bragr

Banned
DECENCY LMAO
I know it sounds dumb, but so much online is about decency.

No one is gonna stop you, you can pirate and emulate everything, download movies, find backdoors to subscription sites, whatever, it's all there. It's really up to each and every person if they support what they consume.
 

Bragr

Banned
I'm not discussing pirating...

My point it's about your blind/dumb obsession with playing x software on x hardware.

If you buy anything that thing is yours and you can indeed run it wherever you want.

And NO Nintendo does not lose money if you legitimately buy a game and play it on non "proper" hardware they get the SAME sale cut regardless.

That's so dumb I can barely talk about without burst into laugh. It's like saying that if you bought a game but left it on your shelf instead of inserting it on switch hurts Nintendo.
You should discuss pirating, because every pirate uses the "I own it, I do what I want with it" excuse.

You can't run it whenever you want, because it's not made for anything but a Switch. You have to bypass it with an emulator.

I said it 100 times, people who don't use the Nintendo systems, or the Xbox ecosystem, or Playstation, or whatever, and use the exclusive console games from those systems on other hardware, are hurting said producer. Because it means less affinity and active users.

These are all flimsy excuses trying to brush away a shitty practice.
 

baphomet

Member
You should discuss pirating, because every pirate uses the "I own it, I do what I want with it" excuse.

You can't run it whenever you want, because it's not made for anything but a Switch. You have to bypass it with an emulator.

I said it 100 times, people who don't use the Nintendo systems, or the Xbox ecosystem, or Playstation, or whatever, and use the exclusive console games from those systems on other hardware, are hurting said producer. Because it means less affinity and active users.

These are all flimsy excuses trying to brush away a shitty practice.


The amount of bootlicking in this post is amazing.
 
You should discuss pirating, because every pirate uses the "I own it, I do what I want with it" excuse.

You can't run it whenever you want, because it's not made for anything but a Switch. You have to bypass it with an emulator.

I said it 100 times, people who don't use the Nintendo systems, or the Xbox ecosystem, or Playstation, or whatever, and use the exclusive console games from those systems on other hardware, are hurting said producer. Because it means less affinity and active users.

These are all flimsy excuses trying to brush away a shitty practice.

Woa those neo gaf notifications are tight 0.0

Dude you have absolutely no clue of what you're talking about. Nothing is more common in our current world than changing bits from one type of storage to another through various methods...

Moving bits from a mini card to a hd or ssd it's not a crime... Stop treating it like armed robbery, quit this f drama.

Also I'm not excusing anyone (stop with that obsession it's not healthy).

Your line of thinking is flowed and sick... Just imagine buying a pair of shoes and only be allowed to use it inside the same store you've bought it... That's fucking insane.
 

Celine

Member
The header was created by Marat Fayzullin, who has never worked for Nintendo.

Yeah, the ROM was almost certainly pirated. Don't expect Nintendo to ever admit it, though.
"almost certainly" my ass.
The presence of the header in the roms doesn't automatically imply they were downloaded from Internet.
What is certain is that the Nintendo's employee first in charge for emulating NES/Famicom games on N64, Tomohiro Kawase, knew the iNES header format because he had an involvement of some sort.
Nintendo may very well had decided to use the header format of iNES as is and applied to their own dump.
Through the massive illegal breach of security that hit Nintendo, we also know for certain that Nintendo is in possession of separated Program and Character ROM files for pretty much every single NES and Famicom titles, no iNES header to be seen.

For anyone interested in the matter:
 
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Bragr

Banned
Woa those neo gaf notifications are tight 0.0

Dude you have absolutely no clue of what you're talking about. Nothing is more common in our current world than changing bits from one type of storage to another through various methods...

Moving bits from a mini card to a hd or ssd it's not a crime... Stop treating it like armed robbery, quit this f drama.

Also I'm not excusing anyone (stop with that obsession it's not healthy).

Your line of thinking is flowed and sick... Just imagine buying a pair of shoes and only be allowed to use it inside the same store you've bought it... That's fucking insane.
It is nothing like buying a shoe lol. You guys are so detached from common business models it's comical.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Maybe next time they can make hardware that's powerful enough to not come under threat of emulation. Keep making weak consoles and people will keep making good emulators. Theres a reason the latest sony console being emulated properly is the PS3 and Xbox emulation is nonexistent.
 

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Maybe next time they can make hardware that's powerful enough to not come under threat of emulation. Keep making weak consoles and people will keep making good emulators. Theres a reason the latest sony console being emulated properly is the PS3 and Xbox emulation is nonexistent.
Reminds of something Gaben said when talking about piracy.

The easiest way to stop piracy is not by putting antipiracy technology to work. It's by giving those people a service that's better than what they're receiving from the pirates.”

Basically, it's Nintendo's fault. Give us better hardware and we'll have no more reasons to keep resorting to emulators.
 
TintoConCasera TintoConCasera (quoted not working on mobile for some reason)

No one ever said piracy was fault of the developer

The guy just quoted a line.

The funny thing is that the quoted line explain how you can easily and elegantly defeat piracy on a proven and very lucrative way...

Yet you guys keep vomiting shit like: "it's no fair, don't you have a heart? This multibilion dollar company can't afford to upgrade it's business practices to 21 century market"

Ffs dudes...
 
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Chukhopops

Member
Maybe next time they can make hardware that's powerful enough to not come under threat of emulation. Keep making weak consoles and people will keep making good emulators. Theres a reason the latest sony console being emulated properly is the PS3 and Xbox emulation is nonexistent.
Bit of a dumb take when Nintendo’s hardware is targeting a cheaper price point and is portable, it’s not like you could feasibly make anything vastly more powerful five years ago.

Even now in 2022 it takes a higher price point and a lot of compromising to get to 1.6 TFlops handheld, so it’s not like the Switch successor will be massively more powerful and impossible to emulate (unless Nintendo improves its protection).

It’s a matter of personal decision imo and who you want to support.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Even now in 2022 it takes a higher price point and a lot of compromising to get to 1.6 TFlops handheld, so it’s not like the Switch successor will be massively more powerful and impossible to emulate (unless Nintendo improves its protection).
Being more powerful is more than enough. It's easy to emulate an android tablet with specifications contemporary to 2015. a bit harder to emulate hardware that's on par with a RTX 2060 and a 2nd gen Ryzen processor. Even if you could emulate hardware like that with your PC, the vast majority of gamers couldn't. Just look at RPCS3, you pretty much need a Medium-high range PC in order to properly use it. you're not going to get away with a GTX 1050 and a sandy bridge processor. and that's emulating hardware essentially from the mid 2000s
 
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Bragr

Banned
Reminds of something Gaben said when talking about piracy.



Basically, it's Nintendo's fault. Give us better hardware and we'll have no more reasons to keep resorting to emulators.
You are misusing that quote. He is talking about how Valve offers so much for so little that it's not an issue for Steam. He's not talking about how Nintendo offers lowered-powered hardware so they can turn a profit on their hardware. He's talking about PC piracy.
 
"almost certainly" my ass.
The presence of the header in the roms doesn't automatically imply they were downloaded from Internet.
I still think it's the most likely explanation. A bunch of people working at Nintendo got lazy and downloaded some ROMs online instead of repeatedly going through the possibly lengthy process of requesting access to the archives or whatever. I mean, it's not like it would even have been illegal for them. It's perfectly understandable.

It certainly sounds more plausible than "This guy who contributed some audio code to iNES one time got hired by Nintendo to code emulators and decided to re-use the iNES header format even though the very emulators he was building for Nintendo did not use headers at all and completely ignored that part of the ROM."

Through the massive illegal breach of security that hit Nintendo, we also know for certain that Nintendo is in possession of separated Program and Character ROM files for pretty much every single NES and Famicom titles, no iNES header to be seen.
Why didn't they use those, then? Doesn't that make the presence of these ROMs with headers look even more suspicious?
 

daveonezero

Banned
Reminds of something Gaben said when talking about piracy.



Basically, it's Nintendo's fault. Give us better hardware and we'll have no more reasons to keep resorting to emulators.
But Nintendo still attracts people for other reasons. And do some things better than other companies.

People that know about Roma and emulating still but a Switch.

It’s still the best way to play them on a portable system.

The Deck is a close 2nd.
 

Ron Mexico

Member
If Sony made a Sony TV that could only play Sony products, and you had to hack your TV to get it to run other stuff, it would be the same. You are supposed to run it on underpowered hardware, that's why they make it, it's unplayable on other systems out of the box. If everyone was scummy like this, Nintendo wouldn't have a business.

If Sony made a TV that could only run Sony products, you could bet your ass I'd be the first in line for a jailbreak. Once I buy your product, I'll do anything I damn well please with it.

In a world where right-to-repair has a chance to finally gain some traction, this kind of walled garden approach is grossly anti-consumer and should be the exact thing we should be moving away from. What you do with what you own-- whether it be ripping a Switch game to play on a Steam Deck to taking a John Deere tractor to an independent repair shop should be up to the end user.

(And they're very much related as we're talking what an end user can do with what they own)

Love Nintendo all you want, more power to you-- but this isn't the way to support your favorite piece of plastic. Playing on the Switch was fine. Then there was a way to have a better experience. If there's something that will do it better than the Steam Deck in the future, even better. No matter who makes it.
 
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Bragr

Banned
If Sony made a TV that could only run Sony products, you could bet your ass I'd be the first in line for a jailbreak.
And that is scummy. But another TV.

And it's not like a Sony TV that could only run Sony products, it's like a Sony TV that has Sony products that are solely made for the TV. That's the Switch, the products are made for the hardware, and the hardware is made for the products. It's not a shoe, or a TV, it's a one-and-one relationship, made for another.

You can't play Switch games on other systems unless you bypass the intention of the product. Nintendo would be gone in the 90s if they didn't build exclusive systems for exclusive games. Just as Sony would go under if they couldn't make exclusive games to outcompete other companies.

Sony made the Vita play Vita games, not for people to rip the games and play them with better resolutions on a PC because they are resolution snobs. Stop making these outlandish excuses because you wanna rip games.
 

Ron Mexico

Member
And that is scummy. But another TV.

And it's not like a Sony TV that could only run Sony products, it's like a Sony TV that has Sony products that are solely made for the TV. That's the Switch, the products are made for the hardware, and the hardware is made for the products. It's not a shoe, or a TV, it's a one-and-one relationship, made for another.

You can't play Switch games on other systems unless you bypass the intention of the product. Nintendo would be gone in the 90s if they didn't build exclusive systems for exclusive games. Just as Sony would go under if they couldn't make exclusive games to outcompete other companies.

Sony made the Vita play Vita games, not for people to rip the games and play them with better resolutions on a PC because they are resolution snobs. Stop making these outlandish excuses because you wanna rip games.
I didn't buy the intention. I bought the product. What I do with said product isn't anyone else's concern. I have nothing against using the product in the "intended" way so long as the "intended" way is also the most enjoyable/efficient/choose your adjective here.

But I as the end user have full autonomy to make that decision. And while it's clearly a challenge for some to see the forest for the trees, that autonomy is a huge plus that extends FAR beyond some silly little emulator.
 

Celine

Member
I still think it's the most likely explanation. A bunch of people working at Nintendo got lazy and downloaded some ROMs online instead of repeatedly going through the possibly lengthy process of requesting access to the archives or whatever. I mean, it's not like it would even have been illegal for them. It's perfectly understandable.

It certainly sounds more plausible than "This guy who contributed some audio code to iNES one time got hired by Nintendo to code emulators and decided to re-use the iNES header format even though the very emulators he was building for Nintendo did not use headers at all and completely ignored that part of the ROM."
You can make all the conjectures you wish but it doesn't change that there is no proof that Nintendo sold roms sourced from Internet because the presence of the iNES header can't prove it.
If you've read the link in my previous post you'd know that there were cases of Nintendo employees downloading roms from the Internet for development purpose, this info was acquired by sifting through internal e-mails contained in the massive data breach that hit Nintendo.
Yet in the same there is no evidence that the public releases weren't source by Nintendo itself, in fact a lot of same internal e-mails asked for specific lotcheck ROMs, including for games that were downloaded from Internet, which suggests that when it’s about the public use, they’re genuinely hellbent on using ROMs sourced from themselves.

Why didn't they use those, then? Doesn't that make the presence of these ROMs with headers look even more suspicious?
Ask to Nintendo employees why they decided to adopt a standard developed by outside programmers and while you are at it ask'em why they used their own .qd format for their Famicom re-releases.
 
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