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Valve believes Half-Life: Alyx will be modded to play without VR

Give me a flat screen version I can play with the Vive motion controllers and I'll bite. View to thumbstick or trackpad. Crouch, jump and move like any other fps, just let me control the hands.

Not gonna drop $1k on a visor that will be outdated in a couple months just to get 'presence' and slowed down motion sickness inducing gameplay.

I am not swayed by gimmicks like 'presence'. The gameplay revolution here is in the hand manipulation of the physics objects. You take that out and the game isn't worth shit.

So why not let everyone get on board and bring that revolution to a wider audience. VR exclusives should be bending over backwards to make flat screen compatible versions while still requiring the tracked controllers.

This is what I don't get about the VR die hards... You are sabotaging your own revolution by trying to conflate the requirement of expensive and gameplay limiting VR headsets with advanced motion input. If you supported more options to ease into full immersiveness you'd get more games and higher adoption....

But you then attack anyone who suggest otherwise. "Its ImPossibru!!!" ..." Entirely different game!! ". Only because you think it will undermine VR adoption, when actually it would do the opposite.

Yeah, human vision is a gimmick. I wish my eyes were a 30" 2d screen.

Like, what?

And anyone that starts talking about a thousand dollar headset requirement should immediately be ignored. It's even been mentioned in this very thread. You don't need a thousand dollar headset!!

Simulating human vision is not a gimmick, the benefits of VR require presence/embodiment and therefore headtracked 3 dimensional vision that covers your field of view. Otherwise motion control input would be Wii/Move level. It's really not difficult to understand. But somehow you did it. So congrats?
 
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dvdvideo

Member
Yeah, human vision is a gimmick. I wish my eyes were a 30" 2d screen.

Like, what?

And anyone that starts talking about a thousand dollar headset requirement should immediately be ignored. It's even been mentioned in this very thread. You don't need a thousand dollar headset!!

Simulating human vision is not a gimmick, the benefits of VR require presence/embodiment and therefore headtracked 3 dimensional vision that covers your field of view. Otherwise motion control input would be Wii/Move level. It's really not difficult to understand. But somehow you did it. So congrats?

Sounds like someone is clearly in denial about the shortcomings of vr in its current state.
 
Sounds like someone is clearly in denial about the shortcomings of vr in its current state.

Ha, this is why I left this place for so long after the exodus. People don't get banned anymore for consistently bringing absolutely nothing to the table. You didnt even respond to my response when you asked for some details about VR's success, I spent almost an hour on that post and you just glossed past it and went right back to your terrible shortsighted nonsense.

And my credentials are a masters in Human Computer Interaction with a focus on spatial/immersive tech research.
 
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mortal

Gold Member
Sounds like someone is clearly in denial about the shortcomings of vr in its current state.
I don't think any reasonable person would deny VR (much like any new tech in its infancy) has its share of shortcomings.

The fact that we are still in the relatively early stages of VR hardware and software design is what has me personally excited for the future of gaming.
I'm of the belief the future of first person game design lies in VR. That doesn't mean that they'll all be winners, but the ones that are will be game changers.
 
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I don't think any reasonable person would deny VR (much like any new tech in its infancy) has its share of shortcomings.

The fact that we are still in the relatively early stages of VR hardware and software design is what has me personally excited for the future of gaming.
I'm of the belief the future of first person game design lies in VR. That's doesn't mean that they'll all be winners, but the ones that do will be game changers.

Yes, and if the dude read my lengthy reply to his completely off topic post earlier in the thread, he would know that I understood that. But the graphs and paragraphs were probably a little overwhelming for him.
 

Dacon

Banned
How long until Half Life 2 TC to the new engine? That's what I'm interested in, I can't afford VR right now, but the day I can is the day I play Alyx.
 
Yeah, human vision is a gimmick. I wish my eyes were a 30" 2d screen.

Like, what?

And anyone that starts talking about a thousand dollar headset requirement should immediately be ignored. It's even been mentioned in this very thread. You don't need a thousand dollar headset!!

Simulating human vision is not a gimmick, the benefits of VR require presence/embodiment and therefore headtracked 3 dimensional vision that covers your field of view. Otherwise motion control input would be Wii/Move level. It's really not difficult to understand. But somehow you did it. So congrats?
I guess I didnt care enough to come back to the thread and see this response. Kind of like most people in general didn't care about HL Alyx, amiright?

VR is human vision? I think you should get your eyes check. My eyes don't seem to have problems with ghosting, frame rate, brightness, tunnel vision, screen door effects, etc.
I'm sorry you can't achieve your dream of a 30" 2d screen for eyes... but at least you have... a 5" 2d screen smashed against your face....? LOL. Nice try, I guess?

So you simultaneously claimed the Wii remotes and the Move controllers were on the same level and then also with the index controllers? So the only difference between Wii remote's untracked waggle experience to index is some goggles strapped to your head?

Like, what?

That was the crux of your argument and without it your whole response is just nut gobbling head tracking. If that's true, I feel bad for all those people that could have bought a couple $15 Wii controllers and a Windows VR to play HL Alyx.

See guys, AllisNone says it's all about head tracking, the $200 controllers you bought are worthless outside Wii Sports... I mean, this is ultimately true, but not for the reason he stated, which was exactly the point of my post..

Sounds like it's AllisNone that doesn't understand something.

Hey None, fwiw I hope you and the other 5 guys on the forum have fun playing your human vision simulator with waggle controls... But please do ignore me from here on out as I'll be doing the same to you, as you aren't worth another second of my time.
 

FireFly

Member
VR is human vision? I think you should get your eyes check. My eyes don't seem to have problems with ghosting, frame rate, brightness, tunnel vision, screen door effects, etc.
I'm sorry you can't achieve your dream of a 30" 2d screen for eyes... but at least you have... a 5" 2d screen smashed against your face....? LOL. Nice try, I guess?
Have you tried VR?
 

Spukc

Member
my mate got one too and i have 3 of em all of dem collect dust
if only we could get 2 or even 1 game a year of alyx quality.
i might dust it of more,

funny thing is that my most used vr experience was on the switch.
 

Resenge

Member
funny thing is that my most used vr experience was on the switch.
This has to be a joke right?

Switch VR in comparison to PCVR/PSVR/Quest is not even comparable. Why would you spend more time holding a cardboard box with a Switch to your head than actually using a proper headset that sits on your head with actual good games since you say you have 3 headsets.

I dont beleive you spend more time doing this..



Rather than this...



What are your 3 Headsets? Google Cardboard, Oculus Go and Gear VR?
 
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darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
Haha no VR mod go brrrrrr

Damn, it is embarassing to see how easy VR games are actually made to make up for the fact that you are basically a cripple in them. There goes all the immersion I ever had. Dumbed down experiences with the actual skill level of a walking simulator - only you can't walk.

Shows that motion controls will never be superior to mouse/keyboard or controllers in games.
 
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FireFly

Member
Damn, it is embarassing to see how easy VR games are actually made to make up for the fact that you are basically a cripple in them. There goes all the immersion I ever had. Dumbed down experiences with the actual skill level of a walking simulator - only you can't walk.

Shows that motion controls will never be superior to mouse/keyboard or controllers in games.
Valve said that the first time they enabled physics on the player character in HL2, players would kill themselves running into walls, because Gordon was moving so fast. I think that illustrates the point that movement in non VR games has almost nothing to do with movement in real life, where you have to wait for your body to do something rather than having it done instantaneously with a button press.

So it is like comparing CoD to a paintball match. Or getting in a boxing ring to playing Fight Night.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Damn, it is embarassing to see how easy VR games are actually made to make up for the fact that you are basically a cripple in them. There goes all the immersion I ever had. Dumbed down experiences with the actual skill level of a walking simulator - only you can't walk.

Shows that motion controls will never be superior to mouse/keyboard or controllers in games.
What do you mean you can't walk? And how is actually holding, aiming and firing weapons in 3D space, you know, kinda like you do in real life, or physically ducking into cover, dumbed down compared to, as seen here and in so many FPS games, point and clicking or pressing some key?

It inherently demands more from the player hence when the game is meant to be newbie friendly like Alyx they reduce the difficulty in other ways. Same reason non VR games have gameplay that demands that kind of balance. Resident Evil or Receiver don't have as many enemies as Doom.

Hell, Half-Life itself never really had that crowded encounters or anything compared to all out action FPS like Serious Sam (also playable in VR btw, and tons of fun), it's not a huge change in Alyx for the most part.

I mean, Half-Life itself is also playable in VR (on some platforms). That they chose a more deliberate pacing for the first made-for-VR game with less enemies, less ammo and all that, almost like a RE game, doesn't mean other developers don't approach things differently.

Hope some day you realize by trying to be clever and trash talk you just show how out of touch with reality (virtual or otherwise) you are. It's like saying oh, Virtua Cop is easy and dumb if I play it with my mouse on an emulator, as if that makes you a good shot with a lightgun, its whole deal.

Here are some random videos that I think do a decent job in showing off some VR gameplay/possibilities for people who are as ignorant as you, if you're willing of course, otherwise carry on.
 
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darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
What do you mean you can't walk? And how is actually holding, aiming and firing weapons in 3D space, you know, kinda like you do in real life, or physically ducking into cover, dumbed down compared to, as seen here and in so many FPS games, point and clicking or pressing some key?

Because being more realistic is not being more fun. And that's what games are for, escaping reality for a fun alternative, where the chores are replaced by simple button presses. That physical presence is just bloat. I take six hours of a campaign over a thirty minute campaign that was stretched to last six hours by forcing the player to do the most mundane and boring tasks (like opening a door).
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I didn't ask any "why" to answer with "because". You've explained nothing and said nothing that justifies the post I replied to, just completely changed points, from "dumbed down" to "mundane". Most people don't think emulating firearms functions to that degree (it's not like the game asks you to disassemble it and clean it after all, it only gets to the fun parts, aiming and shooting, with simplified reloading, no weight to make it difficult, etc.) is mundane, hence the existence of the lightgun games (and paintball and airsoft) I mentioned, except now you don't have to sacrifice interactivity and free roaming to get that thanks to intuitive VR. There's probably less door opening in Alyx than there is in previous Half-Life games (because they did reduce the mundane parts, it's pretty condensed). How is something like holding down a key to have a crank turn to the desired degree somehow less mundane than actually turning it that much? Games that at some point do either can be accused of being "mundane" in the same (stupid) logic. Seems like you didn't even try this to know what it's like, how it compares? Or maybe ever played Half-Life? You go further off the mark every post.
 
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FireFly

Member
Because being more realistic is not being more fun. And that's what games are for, escaping reality for a fun alternative, where the chores are replaced by simple button presses. That physical presence is just bloat. I take six hours of a campaign over a thirty minute campaign that was stretched to last six hours by forcing the player to do the most mundane and boring tasks (like opening a door).
There's no objective measure of what is or isn't "fun". Not everyone enjoys or wants to handle firearms in real life, but that doesn't mean that those that do are wasting their time when they could be playing CS:GO.
 

Spukc

Member
This has to be a joke right?

Switch VR in comparison to PCVR/PSVR/Quest is not even comparable. Why would you spend more time holding a cardboard box with a Switch to your head than actually using a proper headset that sits on your head with actual good games since you say you have 3 headsets.

I dont beleive you spend more time doing this..



Rather than this...



What are your 3 Headsets? Google Cardboard, Oculus Go and Gear VR?
Rift and psvr. Don't underestimate nintendo's charm

Some people prefer well designed fun experiences. Nintendo VR nails with their cardboard expansion what no other vr headset maker does. More immersion. Don't write off nintendo vr because of specs.

Each VR type has it charms the last VR need is elitist pricks that gatekeep
 
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Resenge

Member
Rift and psvr. Don't underestimate nintendo's charm

Some people prefer well designed fun experiences. Nintendo VR nails with their cardboard expansion what no other vr headset maker does. More immersion. Don't write off nintendo vr because of specs.

Each VR type has it charms the last VR need is elitist pricks that gatekeep
I have a Switch I know what the VR is like and it is a wannabe Google cardboard clone, nothing like decent consumer VR. Comparing them is night and day.
 
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Uusis

Banned
Haven't played Alyx yet (doesn't have any VR devices anymore) but this ain't the way to play it. After experienced VR (Vive and Quest (the best because no wires)) I just can't to see appeal on Alyx with mouse + keyboard on 2D plane.
 

Resenge

Member
Yep. Switch VR is just mini games with the expection of BOTW which looks terrible is a tech demo and is not good in VR. Labo all over is just a tech demo. PCVR, PSVR, Quest shits all over Labo. I am surprised you are even arguing in favour of Labo considering the differences between them and the games is so vast.
 
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