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Vancouver Realtor Threatens Buyer: You don’t fucking want to be alive.”

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gaming_noob

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A Vancouver realtor has been accused of threatening a local businessman after he denounced her for encouraging a bidding war on a house she is trying to flip for a client – in a deal he worries could lead to tax evasion.

The man says he was frightened for his life.

He reported the May 2 incident to the real estate industry regulator and Vancouver police, which are both investigating. He gave The Globe and Mail a recording of a threatening call – from a number connected to Layla Yang, a licensed realtor from Re/Max.

In the recording, a woman he said had identified herself as Ms. Yang warns him in Mandarin: “I’m telling you – people above me are from Harbin [China] gangs. Gangsters, right? You don’t fucking want to be alive.” That call was followed immediately by another, also in Mandarin, from an unidentified man, also recorded. That caller repeatedly demanded to know the businessman’s address and told him, “You have lived for too long.” The Globe had the recordings translated.

The man said the episode began when Ms. Yang’s assistant, Mo Tao, phoned him to promote a west-side house in which he had expressed an interest. Ms. Yang had just listed it for $4.28-million, however, he said Ms. Tao told him that price was just a low-ball enticement to start a bidding war. He claims she told him he must offer at least $1-million more to be competitive, which he found offensive.

The multimillion-dollar house is near Point Grey, one of Vancouver’s most popular areas for foreign investors and speculators. Records show Ms. Yang sold it once already this year – for $4.42-million. The new MLS listing classifies the home as owner-occupied. However, the buyer relisted it for sale with Ms. Yang just five days after taking possession. Sales records show the same investor flipped at least one other home last year, making a quarter-million-dollar profit in three months.

The businessman reporting the threats said he is concerned the owner will flip the newly listed property too, then claim it as a principal residence to avoid paying capital-gains taxes.

Ms. Yang’s office sent several text messages to The Globe explaining why she would not comment. “We suggest you contact police not Layla Yang office for this matter. Layla Yang is fully engaged in business day and night and thank you for contacting and trusting our team! We have to dealing with our other business now.”

“Let’s make a Hollywood movie out of this! Pls contact police as needed.”

The alleged victim said he called 911 soon after the calls on the Monday night.

“I was awake the whole night … but they [police] didn’t come,” he said, adding that a Vancouver police constable came by the next night. “I told them, when you don’t come for 24 hours, I could be killed already.”

He says the officer advised him to move to a hotel. Vancouver police refused to comment, because no charges have been laid. After The Globe contacted the police, the alleged victim said, two detectives called him in to give a video statement.


Full article: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...or-accused-of-making-threats/article30024457/
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Vancouver's housing market just got crazier.

“We suggest you contact police not Layla Yang office for this matter. Layla Yang is fully engaged in business day and night and thank you for contacting and trusting our team! We have to dealing with our other business now.”

“Let’s make a Hollywood movie out of this! Pls contact police as needed.”

WTF
 
Seems like there really should be laws about buying and flipping houses you never even plan to live in.


There is:

The businessman reporting the threats said he is concerned the owner will flip the newly listed property too, then claim it as a principal residence to avoid paying capital-gains taxes.

If it's not your primary property you have to pay capital gains. Not sure how you would avoid that though. At tax time you would have to show purchase and sale dates.

Flippers in California were making so much the state went one step further. You have to pay income tax on profits made if you haven't lived there for TWO years. Even if it is your prime residence, if you make over 500k, you have to pay capital gains. Back in the day you avoided capital gains by moving the money into another property
 
Just another day with the crazy markets in Vancouver.
Seems like there really should be laws about buying and flipping houses you never even plan to live in.
There are so many god damn loopholes right now, nothing can stop it.

A few days ago a house was sold for 31 million. The owner is listed as a Student, and owns 99% of the property. It also showed that they took out a 9 million dollar mortgage, and paying 17K monthly.

You tell me what student can afford a 17K mortgage monthly payment.
 
Seems like there really should be laws about buying and flipping houses you never even plan to live in.
These are market forces at work. As long as there isn't any tax fraud or other fraud going on, it's a good thing. Flippers increase the liquidity of the market and often do some basic renovations if needed to make the home more palatable to a buyer who intends to live there.
 
It's sad that Vancouver has been rendered unlivable

Hey Tabris, what do you think?

He won't answer, he's above the poor's living in the suburbs and the little guys.

These are market forces at work. As long as there isn't any tax fraud or other fraud going on, it's a good thing. Flippers increase the liquidity of the market and often do some basic renovations if needed to make the home more palatable to a buyer who intends to live there.

L O L

Mate, maybe you don't realize it, but this entire situation is making even the most rinky dink shack unaffordable for the common person in Vancouver and has essentially extended out to the rest of the GVRD. Why do you think all the young people arem oving out of the city, beautiful as it is? Fuck outta here with this libertarian "market is doing it's work'" bullshit.
 
These are market forces at work. As long as there isn't any tax fraud or other fraud going on, it's a good thing. Flippers increase the liquidity of the market and often do some basic renovations if needed to make the home more palatable to a buyer who intends to live there.
While that may be true, it prices people out of the market. In January, the Greater Vancouver Market average home price is 1.83 Million (http://www.news1130.com/2016/02/02/vancouver-house-price-new-record/)



So yeah, if your entire city is built upon the idea that you're only attracting older, well off individuals and drop the rest of the population, I guess it can work.

Edit: I recall seeing this too, about Millennials: http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/vancouver-millennials-have-lowest-discretionary-income-after-house-purchase-1.2898563

Vancity Credit Union says a typical Vancouver couple aged 24 to 34, with a combined annual income of about $72,000, would go into debt by $2,745 a year after buying an average priced property and paying essential expenses including property taxes, food, utilities and transportation.

The housing market in Toronto is the second-most expensive and a millennial couple there had the next lowest level of discretionary income.

The report says a couple in Toronto would have about $3,400 in discretionary income annually after buying an average priced house.

Millennial couples in Edmonton have the highest level of annual discretionary income at more than $47,000.

I know I can't fucking stand it in Toronto, so I don't know how people my age is dealing with this shit in Vancouver.
 
And there absolutely is tax fraud going on with stuff like this. The system is ripe for abuse with the amount of holes in it. So that makes the argument that this is the fair market hilariously ludicrous.

I know I can't fucking stand it in Toronto, so I don't know how people my age is dealing with this shit in Vancouver

I know I can't and I'm only 19. My brother moved back to Manitoba, chances are I will probably join him.
 

MDR1750

Neo Member
Seems like there really should be laws about buying and flipping houses you never even plan to live in.

The rules in Canada are that the property is for personal use (though there are some special rules for changing back from or to a rental property) and you must “ordinarily inhabit” the residence and designate it as your principal residence (you can designate one property as principal residence each year).

The capital gain is reduced by the number of years designated (i.e. number of years designated plus one divided by number of years owned; “years” in this calculation is always rounded up so less than year becomes one year).

It is not written in the law that you need to live in the property for X amount of time. All it says is that you “ordinarily inhabit” the property. This is a judgment call and of course Canada Revenue Agency (the Canadian version of the IRS) can challenge whatever you do.

There is a second issue to all this which is whether the gain on the disposition of the property is a capital gain or a business gain (“business” could include a one off transaction and "business" has a broader meaning in tax than you might think). If you don’t have a capital gain, you can’t use the principal residence exemption at all. Capital gains are one half taxable in Canada while business gains are fully taxable, so naturally everyone wants a capital gain even if they aren’t using the principal residence exemption.

Whether a gain is capital or business is another judgment call. Canada Revenue Agency looks factors such as what they believe your intention was at the time you bought the property (e.g. if your plan was to live there long term, did you change your driver’s license and other government documents?), they look at the length of time you lived there, the frequency of your property sales, your level of expertise (e.g. if you are a real estate agent you’ll have a harder time arguing you weren’t trying to flip the property), etc.

As you can see you have two “gray” areas here (is the gain capital or business and if capital is it eligible for the principal residence exemption?). Canada Revenue Agency does challenge a lot of these deals and this is one of the more contested areas in Canadian income tax.
 
While that may be true, it prices people out of the market. In January, the Greater Vancouver Market average home price is 1.83 Million (http://www.news1130.com/2016/02/02/vancouver-house-price-new-record/)



So yeah, if your entire city is built upon the idea that you're only attracting older, well off individuals and drop the rest of the population, I guess it can work.

Edit: I recall seeing this too, about Millennials: http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/vancouver-millennials-have-lowest-discretionary-income-after-house-purchase-1.2898563



I know I can't fucking stand it in Toronto, so I don't know how people my age is dealing with this shit in Vancouver.
I actually read that as a general statement about flippers, not just referring to Vancouver. I'm not familiar with the specific situation there but in US cities a lot of well intentioned policies like rent control, zoning, etc are contributing to a shortage of housing that drives up the price. In cities where the supply isn't artificially constrained by heavy government regs, prices have remained liveable. Flippers are everywhere and don't cause prices to skyrocket in cities that have otherwise sane policies.

Obviously this person who is making threats is not doing legitimate business and should be punished though, but the law is against violent threats and tax evasion already. Enforce the existing laws rather than enacting a law against buying and selling property.
 

NYR

Member
There should really be laws about foreign owned property in Vancouver. Just force them to sell it or just seize it.
 

Hieberrr

Member
There should really be a law for buying property if you're not a citizen or a permanent resident who lives here at least 9 out of 12 months for at least 2-3 years. This is bullshit and it's getting out of hand.
 

Pterion

Member
There should really be a law for buying property if you're not a citizen or a permanent resident who lives here at least 9 out of 12 months for at least 2-3 years. This is bullshit and it's getting out of hand.
But we need more data. More data! We're not sure what drives this crazy market. Surely it has nothing to do with the limitless supply of rich foreigners from China. We just need more data.

Just another day with the crazy markets in Vancouver.
There are so many god damn loopholes right now, nothing can stop it.

A few days ago a house was sold for 31 million. The owner is listed as a Student, and owns 99% of the property. It also showed that they took out a 9 million dollar mortgage, and paying 17K monthly.

You tell me what student can afford a 17K mortgage monthly payment.
He has good grades, so it's fully deserved. Don't be so salty. Just work hard and get some bootstraps and this will be yours too. You need to think like a winner man.
 
There should really be a law for buying property if you're not a citizen or a permanent resident who lives here at least 9 out of 12 months for at least 2-3 years. This is bullshit and it's getting out of hand.
Doesn't matter. You can see in many of the recent discussion in the past year that people have gotten around that: listing students, homemakers, with clear indication that the person listed as the purchase probably isn't the one paying for it, but the person attached to the house is a permanent resident.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/05/12/canada-luxury-real-estate_n_9915356.html

Royal LePage defined "foreign buyers" as anyone who lived outside of Canada "all, or most of the time." Luxury properties, meanwhile, were defined as homes that were worth more than four times the average price in Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto and Montreal.

With that definition in mind, about a quarter (24 per cent) of the advisors that the firm spoke to said that 25 per cent or more of the luxury homes in their cities were snapped up by foreign buyers.

Almost every advisor (97 per cent) said that foreign buyers are couples, while 66 per cent of them said they have kids living at home.

You run this story in parallel to the other stories about the various rich students driving Lambos to UBC, then it's not hard to put a picture together what's going on. But of course, on paper, everything checks out based on the laws and the audits we have in the Canadian and provincial systems today.
 
Meh. All you have to do is throw some kickbacks to the liberal party so Christy can skim some off the top for her and her buddies.

This province is so fucked.
 
Ohh you meant laws preventing flippers ...

You don't have to be a libertarian to think that's stupid
No. Foreign investment.

On a grand scale of things, I don't think anyone is even concerned with flippers who are improving house to be sold for profit; the concerns are where you have house that have doubled in value with zero improvements, then rebuilt and squatted on with no one living in it at the end.

It's like an open secret about how the Chinese money is pouring in (dodging the tightening Chinese tax laws) and no one wants to deal with the future fallout of empty neighbourhoods with purchasers that don't contribute anything on this side. Slowly heading offtopic towards just the Vancouver housing shitshow, but here, it's pretty good info on what the hell is going on as well. No one is thinking about flippers, honestly, it's the least of the concern.

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/ian-young-on-vancouvers-freak-show-housing-market/
http://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/chinese-real-estate-investors-are-reshaping-the-market/
 
"This is how every city should operate! All going according to plan! Btw, are you in the market for a pre-owned Audi? I can get you a great deal!"
I'm glad that Montreal (Quebec)'s dysfunctionality has kept it from booming like Toronto or Vancouver.

Making Montréal one of the few affordable cities to live in North America
 

Syriel

Member
It's like an open secret about how the Chinese money is pouring in (dodging the tightening Chinese tax laws) and no one wants to deal with the future fallout of empty neighbourhoods with purchasers that don't contribute anything on this side. Slowly heading offtopic towards just the Vancouver housing shitshow, but here, it's pretty good info on what the hell is going on as well. No one is thinking about flippers, honestly, it's the least of the concern.

Does Canada not have adverse possession laws?

If the houses really are just sitting there abandoned in all but title, it seems like an apt application of the concept.
 

stolin

Member
Just another day with the crazy markets in Vancouver.
There are so many god damn loopholes right now, nothing can stop it.

A few days ago a house was sold for 31 million. The owner is listed as a Student, and owns 99% of the property. It also showed that they took out a 9 million dollar mortgage, and paying 17K monthly.

You tell me what student can afford a 17K mortgage monthly payment.

Canaccord Founder Sells $31 Million Vancouver Mansion To Chinese Student

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...-31-million-vancouver-mansion-chinese-student
 

Cheerilee

Member

Canaccord Founder Sells $31 Million Vancouver Mansion To Chinese Student

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...-31-million-vancouver-mansion-chinese-student

Also note, that Canaccord founder, Peter Brown, who sold his mansion to a student for $31 million? He's super-tight with Christy Clark.

And Christy Clark's totally-not-a-conflict-of-interest second job which involves her getting paid to keep Liberal donators happy? It's flush with Vancouver real estate money.
http://thetyee.ca/News/2016/05/02/Clark-Donors-Tied-Real-Estate/
 
Also note, that Canaccord founder, Peter Brown, who sold his mansion to a student for $31 million? He's super-tight with Christy Clark.

And Christy Clark's totally-not-a-conflict-of-interest second job which involves her getting paid to keep Liberal donators happy? It's flush with Vancouver real estate money.
http://thetyee.ca/News/2016/05/02/Clark-Donors-Tied-Real-Estate/

Oh don't worry about that she was cleared by a completely not conflicted commissioner who says all those rules she wrote definitely weren't broken!
 
Does Canada not have adverse possession laws?

If the houses really are just sitting there abandoned in all but title, it seems like an apt application of the concept.
Sort of? It's super tricky to deal with, and I'm sure given how the money is changing hands and filling out the minimum tax needs the province needs, no one will push on it unless it hurts other things...

https://www.biv.com/article/2016/3/vancouver-had-nearly-11000-homes-sit-empty-2014-st/

...like housing affordability, utility rates, hospital and school resource funding (especially when you have listed both zero vacancy for rental, yet approaching almost 5% vacancy in all dwellings.

I wonder if this sort of metric will show up in the recent census.
 

Tabris

Member
Hey Tabris, what do you think?

BC government needs to find a balance with not discouraging Mainland Chinese investment into Vancouver as it has been a boom to our economy, with ensuring we collect a lot of tax revenue off the real estate speculation, vacancy, and foreign purchases to create a lot more affordable housing in other areas of the city.

Currently none of that is being taxed effectively.

The bad option is to limit or remove foreign purchases. That would be horrible for our economy.

EDIT - Also, these houses generally aren't staying vacant. The father will purchase it for his son or his wife and they will live there part of the year, usually for school. So hard to enforce anything around that, that's why should focus more on the speculation and foreign purchase taxes to offset and create more housing.

Also Vancouverites complaining about increased housing cost need to let go the detached home dream. If you live in apartments, Vancouver is not nearly as expensive and if you create more affordable apartment housing, the prices should go down further. I'm fine with detached homes being associated with the rich only, because I think we should have no detached homes at all. All apartment skyscrapers.

If you want to live in some gross suburban sprawl just so you can have a lawn and "quiet", then live out east or in the US. Vancouver is no longer for you.
 

anaron

Member
BC government needs to find a balance with not discouraging Mainland Chinese investment into Vancouver as it has been a boom to our economy, with ensuring we collect a lot of tax revenue off the real estate speculation, vacancy, and foreign purchases to create a lot more affordable housing in other areas of the city.

Currently none of that is being taxed effectively.

The bad option is to limit or remove foreign purchases. That would be horrible for our economy.

EDIT - Also, these houses generally aren't staying vacant. The father will purchase it for his son or his wife and they will live there part of the year, usually for school. So hard to enforce anything around that, that's why should focus more on the speculation and foreign purchase taxes to offset and create more housing.

Also Vancouverites complaining about increased housing cost need to let go the detached home dream. If you live in apartments, Vancouver is not nearly as expensive and if you create more affordable apartment housing, the prices should go down further. I'm fine with detached homes being associated with the rich only, because I think we should have no detached homes at all. All apartment skyscrapers.

If you want to live in some gross suburban sprawl just so you can have a lawn and "quiet", then live out east or in the US. Vancouver is no longer for you.

I bet you post on those creepy skyscraper forums
 

numble

Member
Does Canada not have adverse possession laws?

If the houses really are just sitting there abandoned in all but title, it seems like an apt application of the concept.
I'm sure they pay the utilities and property taxes, and there is someone to get the mail and mow the lawn.

Based on your logic, ownership of summer and winter homes would be an apt application of the concept of adverse possession.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
BC government needs to find a balance with not discouraging Mainland Chinese investment into Vancouver as it has been a boom to our economy, with ensuring we collect a lot of tax revenue off the real estate speculation, vacancy, and foreign purchases to create a lot more affordable housing in other areas of the city.

Currently none of that is being taxed effectively.

The bad option is to limit or remove foreign purchases. That would be horrible for our economy.

EDIT - Also, these houses generally aren't staying vacant. The father will purchase it for his son or his wife and they will live there part of the year, usually for school. So hard to enforce anything around that, that's why should focus more on the speculation and foreign purchase taxes to offset and create more housing.

Also Vancouverites complaining about increased housing cost need to let go the detached home dream. If you live in apartments, Vancouver is not nearly as expensive and if you create more affordable apartment housing, the prices should go down further. I'm fine with detached homes being associated with the rich only, because I think we should have no detached homes at all. All apartment skyscrapers.

If you want to live in some gross suburban sprawl just so you can have a lawn and "quiet", then live out east or in the US. Vancouver is no longer for you.

 
BC government needs to find a balance with not discouraging Mainland Chinese investment into Vancouver as it has been a boom to our economy, with ensuring we collect a lot of tax revenue off the real estate speculation, vacancy, and foreign purchases to create a lot more affordable housing in other areas of the city.

Currently none of that is being taxed effectively.

The bad option is to limit or remove foreign purchases. That would be horrible for our economy.

EDIT - Also, these houses generally aren't staying vacant. The father will purchase it for his son or his wife and they will live there part of the year, usually for school. So hard to enforce anything around that, that's why should focus more on the speculation and foreign purchase taxes to offset and create more housing.

Also Vancouverites complaining about increased housing cost need to let go the detached home dream. If you live in apartments, Vancouver is not nearly as expensive and if you create more affordable apartment housing, the prices should go down further. I'm fine with detached homes being associated with the rich only, because I think we should have no detached homes at all. All apartment skyscrapers.

If you want to live in some gross suburban sprawl just so you can have a lawn and "quiet", then live out east or in the US. Vancouver is no longer for you.

Living somewhere "part" year is almost as bad as being vacant. The whole idea is people who live in a neighbour buy goods and services all year round, not just during the school semester (which is a dubious claim as it is). It's not like Vancouver is a holiday town, yet.

Your bolded statement was a nice touch.
 
As long as they follow the law, there is no moral argument against house flipping

Period

They buy the house, they have the right to sell, regardless of how quickly

MOST flippers put money into the property to increase its value and deserve a return on investment
 
If you want to live in some gross suburban sprawl just so you can have a lawn and "quiet", then live out east or in the US. Vancouver is no longer for you.

Apparently living in a condo isn't for me either. Or living in Vancouver with a small family. Making it work at under 100k just doesn't seem feasible.

I'm glad that Montreal (Quebec)'s dysfunctionality has kept it from booming like Toronto or Vancouver.

Making Montréal one of the few affordable cities to live in North America

I won't disagree, but that dysfunction causes a lot of problems too. We have the highest tax rate in North America, easily. Our roads look like they were made out of breakfast cereal. And we run a huge deficit.
 
As long as they follow the law, there is no moral argument against house flipping

Period

They buy the house, they have the right to sell, regardless of how quickly

MOST flippers put money into the property to increase its value and deserve a return on investment
It's called money laundering, ya dingus.
 
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