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Vgtech: Grand Theft Auto 5 PS5 vs Xbox Series X|S Frame Rate Comparison (Next-Gen Update)

Using a first party title in an example like that to form your narrative is pretty misleading bud.

A senior figure within Microsoft said very publicly that any Bethesda game coming to cross-platform will be 'first or better or best' on an Xbox console or platform, it shouldn't surprise anyone that the Doom Eternal patch (released not long afterwards) was significantly better on Xbox. It literally was promised by Microsoft.

To then use their games in comparisons, when they are so public about Xbox getting the best versions, is pretty weak.
Doom Eternal devs wanted to use VRS2 on Playstation. They simply couldn't though.
 

Shmunter

Gold Member
Local Dimming is disabled when VRR is enabled.
Which results in a shitty edge lit picture.(you said looks good)

You own the TV and don't know this.

Is it it odd how some users can notice pixel counts that many of us cannot see using a magnifying glass, but can not observe the entirety of the screen losing contrast compared to when the main feature aka FALD is enabled
 

Swift_Star

Gold Member
LOL, you joking?

Whenever DF says the PS5 has the better version of a game with VRR enabled the warriors aren't going to let the rest of us hear the end of it.
Warriors right now are trying to downplay VRR because they don't have it on their console of choice. You don't think warriors are going to go overboard once/if they finally get it? Hint: they will.
That’s exactly why they’ll stop talking about VRR once is rolled out on ps5. You just proved my point lol
 

Lognor

Member
That’s exactly why they’ll stop talking about VRR once is rolled out on ps5. You just proved my point lol
?

Who is they? You don't think warriors are going to be out in full force when/ if the ps5 version of a game performs better with vrr than the xsx version? We're seeing countless examples of the xsx version of a game being better solely due to vrr. Vrr will put the ps5 on a more level playing field so some games might be better on xsx and we'll hear that from the warriors
 

Swift_Star

Gold Member
?

Who is they? You don't think warriors are going to be out in full force when/ if the ps5 version of a game performs better with vrr than the xsx version? We're seeing countless examples of the xsx version of a game being better solely due to vrr. Vrr will put the ps5 on a more level playing field so some games might be better on xsx and we'll hear that from the warriors
You people are incapable of understanding basic stuff.
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
?

Who is they? You don't think warriors are going to be out in full force when/ if the ps5 version of a game performs better with vrr than the xsx version? We're seeing countless examples of the xsx version of a game being better solely due to vrr. Vrr will put the ps5 on a more level playing field so some games might be better on xsx and we'll hear that from the warriors

To be fair a higher FPS has its own set of advantages regardless if you have VRR or not.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Only certain LED TV's lose local dimming with VRR enabled. But like you said I would rather sacrifice VRR for local dimming if my display behaved in that manor. It's good to always do your homework when purchasing a TV, especially with gaming in mind.
Hmm. This will be entertaining...
What models don't keep Local Dimming with VRR?
 

Shmunter

Gold Member
Hmm. This will be entertaining...
What models don't keep Local Dimming with VRR?
Once ps5 gets the vrr, I’m sure people will start documenting their genuine experiences. Because right now it’s honkey-dory and flawless.

Im myself looking forward to checking it it out on my my 85” mini led. Apparently local dimming works with VRR enabled.
 
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Iamgoat100

Neo Member
Hmm. This will be entertaining...
What models don't keep Local Dimming with VRR?

Once ps5 gets the vrr, I’m sure people will start documenting their genuine experiences. Because right now it’s honkey-dory and flawless.

Im myself looking forward to checking it it out on my my 85” mini led. Apparently local dimming works with VRR enabled.

I have a mini LED display and it does keep local dimming active with VRR enabled. That's what I was referring to.
 

Swift_Star

Gold Member
The people distorting what I’m saying, pretending warriors wont forget VRR exists the moment is rolled out on ps5. There will be no “win” anymore because of VRR and they’re pretending this won’t happen. I have no patience for people that are disingenuous.
 

Iamgoat100

Neo Member
My second display is a 55'' TCL, slightly older model now but love the price to performance ratio they offer.
Yeah I held on to my plasma for as long as could but then wanted to go to 4k and ended up getting a cheaper 4k set. Then I wanted better HDR and to take advantage of some of the next gen gaming features and saw a lot of positive reviews saying for the price you can't wrong with the 6 series. I saw a great deal on Amazon and I had to pull the trigger.
 

Shmunter

Gold Member
TCL 6 series 2020 model. Decent bang for your buck TV. I would like to get a nice OLED when I can have dedicated theater/game room again.
I have the 85c825, same panel and electronics. The thing curb stomps Samsung, of which I returned (Q95T) due to inverse ghosting, poor blooming and abysmal IQ in game mode. The TCL IQ is off the charts, amazing blacks with great blooming control, super bright - no oddities. But it does have frustrating GooleTV bugs which hopefully will get ironed out one day.
 

Arioco

Member
And yet they implemented haptic feedback and adaptive triggers for the Dualsense. Weird flex for making an allegedly deliberately gimped version.

???

Sorry, I don't get you. I can't even see the correlation.

They implemented haptic feedback because the platform (PS5) supports it. We were talking about VRS, which they DIDN'T implement on PC despite the platform supporting it ( and in fact needing it more than any other, since PC gamers usually play at unlocked frame rates well above 120 fps).
 
???

Sorry, I don't get you. I can't even see the correlation.

They implemented haptic feedback because the platform (PS5) supports it. We were talking about VRS, which they DIDN'T implement on PC despite the platform supporting it ( and in fact needing it more than any other, since PC gamers usually play at unlocked frame rates well above 120 fps).
The insinuation was that the devs gimped the PS5 version on purpose so that it's "best on Xbox". Them going out of their way to implement haptic feedback and adaptive triggers is evidence to the opposite. They also explicitly said they wanted to implement VRS2 on all consoles.
 

Arioco

Member
The insinuation was that the devs gimped the PS5 version on purpose so that it's "best on Xbox". Them going out of their way to implement haptic feedback and adaptive triggers is evidence to the opposite. They also explicitly said they wanted to implement VRS2 on all consoles.


Now it's clear that it was you who didn't get me. Doom Eternal on PS5 is EXCELLENT, and it looks and runs like a dream. I finished and I still think it's one of the best looking games on PS5 (or any other platform).

I say what I say, what you think I'm insinuating is irrelevant (and in this case wrong). I can't insinuate ID gimped the PS5 version of the game by not implementing VRS Tier 2 when PS5 doesn't even support that feature, don't you think?

I'll try again: Fact 1°- ID said they would've liked to implement VRS on PS5 but the hardware didn't support it. Fact 2°- ID didn't implement VRS on PC despite the hardware supporting it.

Did I make my point clear this time? Am I the only one who thinks that both facts contradict each other or at least don't make much sense?

And that's all.
 
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Now it's clear that it was you who didn't get me. Doom Eternal on PS5 is EXCELLENT, and it looks and runs like a dream. I finished and I still think it's one of the best looking games on PS5 (or any other platform).

I say what I say, what you think I'm insinuating is irrelevant (and in this case wrong). I can't insinuate ID gimped the PS5 version of the game by not implementing VRS Tier 2 when PS5 doesn't even support that feature, don't you think?

I'll try again: Fact 1°- ID said they would've liked to implement VRS on PS5 but the hardware didn't support it. Fact 2°- ID didn't implement VRS on PC despite the hardware supporting it.

Did I make my point clear this time? Am I the only one who think that both facts contradict each other or at least don't make much sense?

And that's all.
You weren't insinuating anything, I was talking about the guy I responded to.

As to the PC version, it's a good question why PC doesn't have it, since it's a DX12U feature. I don't see the contradiction though.
 
Now it's clear that it was you who didn't get me. Doom Eternal on PS5 is EXCELLENT, and it looks and runs like a dream. I finished and I still think it's one of the best looking games on PS5 (or any other platform).

I say what I say, what you think I'm insinuating is irrelevant (and in this case wrong). I can't insinuate ID gimped the PS5 version of the game by not implementing VRS Tier 2 when PS5 doesn't even support that feature, don't you think?

I'll try again: Fact 1°- ID said they would've liked to implement VRS on PS5 but the hardware didn't support it. Fact 2°- ID didn't implement VRS on PC despite the hardware supporting it.

Did I make my point clear this time? Am I the only one who thinks that both facts contradict each other or at least don't make much sense?

And that's all.
In some areas doom eternal actually looks a bit sharper on PS5. Even with the slightly higher resolution on XSX some textures look sharper on PS5. VRS allows to display a slighty higher geometry resolution, but the perceptual resolution of textures can dramatically decrease.

Just be happy VRS isn't on PS5. There is reason most developers don't use VRS (and why COD developers decided not to use MS VRS).
 
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Arioco

Member
You weren't insinuating anything, I was talking about the guy I responded to.

As to the PC version, it's a good question why PC doesn't have it, since it's a DX12U feature. I don't see the contradiction though.

Well, that was my only point. If they wanted VRS so badly why didn't they implemented it on PC? After all they did implement Ray Tracing and as far as I know every GPU out there which supports Ray Tracing also supports Tier 2 VRS.

On the other hand I don't think we can't buy
everything Id says now that MS owns the company, like every fist party studio the do a little bit of PR for their team. I mean, a few months ago their engineers were saying on Twitter that Series S was shit and that "minimum specs matter" and they deleted it all as soon as they knew MS had bought them. 🤷‍♂️
 
Well, that was my only point. If they wanted VRS so badly why didn't they implemented it on PC? After all they did implement Ray Tracing and as far as I know every GPU out there which supports Ray Tracing also supports Tier 2 VRS.

On the other hand I don't think we can't buy
everything Id says now that MS owns the company, like every fist party studio the do a little bit of PR for their team. I mean, a few months ago their engineers were saying on Twitter that Series S was shit and that "minimum specs matter" and they deleted it all as soon as they knew MS had bought them. 🤷‍♂️
I mean yeah, we could assume that they are lying, the evidence just doesn't support it since they went out of their way to implement haptic feedback and adaptive triggers on Playstation.

With the Series S thing, we're talking about a studio that wanted 64 GB of RAM in the next-gen consoles :messenger_beaming: they were just salty.
 

SenjutsuSage

Halo TV Series Promoter - Live from: Reach
Hopefully the next batch of first party next gen only games will be using some of these features, that's when we start to see what Xbox can really do.

What little we know so far key first party studios are already right on top of it. Coalition, id software, 343 (to my knowledge aren't yet utilizing Tier 2, but they're using VRS)
 

Lysandros

Member
Well, that was my only point. If they wanted VRS so badly why didn't they implemented it on PC? After all they did implement Ray Tracing and as far as I know every GPU out there which supports Ray Tracing also supports Tier 2 VRS.

On the other hand I don't think we can't buy
everything Id says now that MS owns the company, like every fist party studio the do a little bit of PR for their team. I mean, a few months ago their engineers were saying on Twitter that Series S was shit and that "minimum specs matter" and they deleted it all as soon as they knew MS had bought them. 🤷‍♂️
They could also use software VRS on PS5 like some other developers do, a well implemented software solution isn't inferior in any way, it can even be superior. But it would take some additional time/resource for sure.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
whats crazy about this game, is get VG Tech to run the frame rate comparison on a different mission like the one DF found that favours the xbox and the results would sway completely the other way showing the xbox version with a very slight lead. basically, this game is too random with its performance per platform to actually judge anything.

The great news is like many times before, these consoles are proving to be more or less identical and all the marketing speak from both sides is not showing itself outside of a couple of instances. Load times and stats are more or less identical. Some games have shown higher resolution on Xbox while games load faster on PS5 and then some games load faster on xbox and show an advantage to PS5.
 

Arioco

Member
I mean yeah, we could assume that they are lying, the evidence just doesn't support it since they went out of their way to implement haptic feedback and adaptive triggers on Playstation.

With the Series S thing, we're talking about a studio that wanted 64 GB of RAM in the next-gen consoles :messenger_beaming: they were just salty.


I just want to stress that I don't think ID purposely gimped the PS5 version at all, the game is absolutely amazing and a joy to play, and I think they did the best they could on every platform they worked on (which includes last gen versions, of course). I mean, could anyone name just one game that looks and runs like Doom Eternal even at 120 fps? Because I can't, honestly. To top it all the game is fun as hell (no pun intended), it's not just a pretty face. These guys know how to make a great game.

And I'd like to mention that the next gen update is free while offering more improvement than other first party games' updates that SONY is charging 10 bucks for, including RT and 120 fps modes among many other improvements.

I can but congratulate MS for the acquisition because ID is one of the best and most talented studios out there and their tech is just incredible, state of the art. I just hope they will continue to release their games on Playstation platforms because otherwise I would miss them a lot. 😓
 

Mr Moose

Member
whats crazy about this game, is get VG Tech to run the frame rate comparison on a different mission like the one DF found that favours the xbox and the results would sway completely the other way showing the xbox version with a very slight lead. basically, this game is too random with its performance per platform to actually judge anything.

The great news is like many times before, these consoles are proving to be more or less identical and all the marketing speak from both sides is not showing itself outside of a couple of instances. Load times and stats are more or less identical. Some games have shown higher resolution on Xbox while games load faster on PS5 and then some games load faster on xbox and show an advantage to PS5.
They are not using Kraken.
 

adamsapple

Gold Member
In some areas doom eternal actually looks a bit sharper on PS5. Even with the slightly higher resolution on XSX some textures look sharper on PS5. VRS allows to display a slighty higher geometry resolution, but the perceptual resolution of textures can dramatically decrease.

Just be happy VRS isn't on PS5. There is reason most developers don't use VRS (and why COD developers decided not to use MS VRS).


I'm sorry, this is just a massive crock of BS and you know it.

This is Doom Eternal's VRS example with 400% zoom and the video itself on 1440p. Can you really spot any noteworthy difference between the two ? If there is any difference, it's so minute and based on 1x1 or 2x2 pixel grid that a/ it's not really visible even in the 400% zoom and b/ you will need to have Superman's eyes to notice it when the game isn't zoomed in 400%.





This is another example from Cyberpunk 2077, 400% zoomed in, and aside from the "exaggerated" example, can you spot any notable difference between the Off and Normal usage one ?




-


The whole point of VRS is to make it seem like there's no perceptible difference in image quality and get some performance back.


-

The CoD developers used software VRS likely to homogenize their game engine, who knows whatever reason they could have.

There might be more games on Xbox that use VRS that we don't know about. Rockstar didn't tell anyone they're using AMD's FSR in GTA V on PS5/SX either, for example. It was only discovered in this VGTech video.
 
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Thirty7ven

Sony make cringe trainers.
The people distorting what I’m saying, pretending warriors wont forget VRR exists the moment is rolled out on ps5. There will be no “win” anymore because of VRR and they’re pretending this won’t happen. I have no patience for people that are disingenuous.

They will move on to something more mercurial next.
 

Arioco

Member
They could also use software VRS on PS5 like some other developers do, a well implemented software solution isn't inferior in any way, it can even be superior. But it would take some additional time/resource for sure.


Yes, of course, I know, but I think that would require extra effort and time since they would have to create a software solution exclusively for PS5 (no other version uses it), while Tier 2, being a hardware solution, is probably much easier to implement.

I didn't mind too much because as I said many times I'm not much of a fan of VRS, whether it's hardware or software. I'm yet to see a game whose implementation is flawless. That could change in the future, of course. I'm curious to see what SONY does for their PSVR2 and its foveated rendering which supposedly allows them to use to use the highest quality shading in the parts of the image you're looking at, but I'm not expecting miracles to be honest.
 
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adamsapple

Gold Member
I didn't mind too much because as I said many times I'm not much of a fan of VRS, whether it's hardware or software. I'm yet to see a game whose implementation is flawless.

I'm not sure what your definition of flawless here is, but Doom Eternal, Cyberpunk, Halo Infinite, Gears 5, Gears Tactics are all notable titles we know for sure use VRS.

And if you can't spot a difference in 400% zoom, not sure what else qualifies as a flawless implementation.



Left side is VRS on, right side is VRS off.

Can you notice any difference in foliage, geometry or tree quality on either ?

The implementation is already good and improving with more iterations.
 
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Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
I'm sorry, this is just a massive crock of BS and you know it.

This is Doom Eternal's VRS example with 400% zoom and the video itself on 1440p. Can you really spot any noteworthy difference between the two ? If there is any difference, it's so minute and based on 1x1 or 2x2 pixel grid that a/ it's not really visible even in the 400% zoom and b/ you will need to have Superman's eyes to notice it when the game isn't zoomed in 400%.





This is another example from Cyberpunk 2077, 400% zoomed in, and aside from the "exaggerated" example, can you spot any notable difference between the Off and Normal usage one ?




-


The whole point of VRS is to make it seem like there's no perceptible difference in image quality and get some performance back.


-

The CoD developers used software VRS likely to homogenize their game engine, who knows whatever reason they could have.

There might be more games on Xbox that use VRS that we don't know about. Rockstar didn't tell anyone they're using AMD's FSR in GTA V on PS5/SX either, for example. It was only discovered in this VGTech video.

They will downplay anything their console doesn't have, you only have to see how tragic the software VRS is on Metro and how performance is all over the place on Black Ops to see it doesn't hold a candle to Tier 2 VRS on Doom Eternal and Gears 5.
Even id said so and DF too in their comparison, we've been through this many times.
 

Mr Moose

Member
I'm not sure what your definition of flawless here is, but Doom Eternal, Cyberpunk, Halo Infinite, Gears 5, Gears Tactics are all notable titles we know for sure use VRS.

And if you can't spot a difference in 400% zoom, not sure what else qualifies as a flawless implementation.



Left side is VRS on, right side is VRS off.

Can you notice any difference in foliage, geometry or tree quality on either ?

The implementation is already good and improving with more iterations.
It's shit in Doom.
Wait what's this got to do with GTA?
 

Lysandros

Member
Yes, of course, I know, but I think that would require extra effort and time since they would have to create a software solution exclusively for PS5 (no other version uses it), while Tier 2, being a hardware solution, is probably much easier to implement.

I didn't mind too much because as I said many times I'm not much of a fan of VRS, whether it's hardware or software. I'm yet to see a game whose implementation is flawless. That could change in the future, of course. I'm curious to see what SONY does for their PSVR2 and its foveated rendering which supposedly allows them to use to use the highest quality shading in the parts of the image you're looking at, but I'm not expecting miracles to be honest.
I wonder if Sony could offer a default software model of VRS ready to be implemented in the engines without significant effort in their GDK.
 
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