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[MasterCornholio]

I just hope this puts to bed some of the narratives that had gone around in other game comparisons about the 'problems' with the Xbox Series design. How the split memory setup was a mistake and how performance issues are because of defective design.

It has always come down to software optimization and all current generation platforms are capable of excellent performance as long as the developers take the time to take advantage of a platforms' features. I'm certain the PS5 can do better here just like the XSS can better in other titles like MLB The Show 22.

I don't believe either consoles design was a mistake IMO.

We've seen both of them play games well. I don't see why that can't apply to every title.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

The resolution still shouldn't drop that low though. I mean from 4K to 1080P that's a huge drop. Plus there's those performance issues that you mentioned. At that point it's just better to lock the PS5 at 1440P (like devs did with the Pro).

With these kinds of performance issues, it makes total sense why resolution is that low. If they correct those performance issues, PS5 is much more consistently closer to Series X resolutions. It's similar to Assassin's Creed Valhalla on Series X at launch. Performance was so bad on the Series X version of the game, they had to patch it by making resolution drop even lower than the PS5 version which had its performance in a much better place. I prefer they optimize it better rather than just let it drop further, though.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Let's wait for patch 1.05 and a revisit. It could iron out a lot of issues.

 

[MasterCornholio]

With these kinds of performance issues, it makes total sense why resolution is that low. If they correct those performance issues, PS5 is much more consistently closer to Series X resolutions. It's similar to Assassin's Creed Valhalla on Series X at launch. Performance was so bad on the Series X version of the game, they had to patch it by making resolution drop even lower than the PS5 version which had its performance in a much better place. I prefer they optimize it better rather than just let it drop further, though.

I guess it depends on how quickly they want to fix it. Locking the resolution a lot lower is definitely the fastest way to to. Trying to improve perfromace by messing around with the code would take longer.

 

[Riky]

I just hope this puts to bed some of the narratives that had gone around in other game comparisons about the 'problems' with the Xbox Series design. How the split memory setup was a mistake and how performance issues are because of defective design.

Exactly, I think the patches to the likes of Dirt 5 and how Control became the best version with a firmware upgrade put pay to those theories. This shows when you're looking at huge resolution gaps like this that the Series X has the right design.

 

[bushwookie]

Not denying the XSX should have a resolution advantage but such a massive one shouldn't happen. Many multiplatform comparisons were close before I don't see why that would change all of a sudden.

Something weird is going on that's for sure.

Edit: to clarify to B bushwookie I'm not saying the XSX version should become worse to achieve parity. I'm just saying the PS5 version needs to be better which would be great for people who play the game on that platform.

I understand that completely, and I suppose you're just interested in finding out why there's such a large difference between the two. Having thought about it more. I can see why you'd have such questions, as your interest is based on the console that you personally own. That's understandable.

At the end of the day though, I wouldn't really worry about this that much unless they release a patch that doesn't correct some things. I fully expect a patch in a week or so that should clear things up a bit.

 

[Topher]

Exactly, I think the patches to the likes of Dirt 5 and how Control became the best version with a firmware upgrade put pay to those theories. This shows when you're looking at huge resolution gaps like this that the Series X has the right design.

I don't think any of the current console designs need validation. I've been playing games on both PS5 and XSX for a year and in the vast majority of cases I would not think twice about playing a game on either XSX or PS5. The differences have been negligible. This instance is an outlier that will hopefully be fixed soon.

 

[bushwookie]

Correct, but the "narrative" of tools as far as actual game performance analysis wasn't a focus until the early games results were revealed. I certainly don't recall a thread prior to launch where Xbox fans were expressing concern over tools being an issue.

The reality of that situation is pretty straightforward. As is what has happened since.

Once both consoles were revealed, it was incredibly obvious that the XSX was more powerful than the PS5. Almost every measure that had been previously used to compare hardware performance suggested that the XSX was simply more powerful. There was no "narrative" there. That's just the reality of it. The narrative was actually that Teraflops really didn't matter after all, despite that the metric had been used on a daily basis for years previous as being the best way to determine a consoles potential.

Now once games started releasing for the new consoles, there were some games that performed noticeably better on the PS5. Tools wasn't a narrative so much as it was people looking for a reason as to why the more powerful console was performing worse than it's competitor. The tools issue was brought up as a possibility in literally 3-4 threads, and immediately overshadowed by others talking about tools simply being an excuse. People attempting to figure out why results aren't meeting expectations isn't a narrative.

Your take is looking back over a longer period of time, which I find interesting because the longer window of time you look at... The more obvious it becomes as to which ones have been creating the narratives. If you're gonna try and draw attention to what's been said or narratives created over the long haul... You're not going to like the results.

 

[Topher]

Your take is looking back over a longer period of time, which I find interesting because the longer window of time you look at... The more obvious it becomes as to which ones have been creating the narratives. If you're gonna try and draw attention to what's been said or narratives created over the long haul... You're not going to like the results.

Nonsense. I didn't bring the tools narrative back into this thread after months of the subject being left behind so you need to redirect your focus of those "looking back over a longer period of time" towards the others who did.

 

[DJ12]

Let's wait for patch 1.05 and a revisit. It could iron out a lot of issues.

I have a copy of the second Harry Potter game in my steam l8brqry that says this will never be fixed.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I understand that completely, and I suppose you're just interested in finding out why there's such a large difference between the two. Having thought about it more. I can see why you'd have such questions, as your interest is based on the console that you personally own. That's understandable.

At the end of the day though, I wouldn't really worry about this that much unless they release a patch that doesn't correct some things. I fully expect a patch in a week or so that should clear things up a bit.

I don't want games to be broken on any platform. But if it's broken on the PS5 I'll have to deal with it since I don't have an XSX. That's mainly why in comparisons I focus more on PlayStation than anything else because I want to see what kind of experience I would get. Like buying Elden Ring on the PS5 after seeing the comparisons. I was fully aware that the game is trash performance wise on all platforms. And it sucks having to deal with the FPS drops on my console. Sure the game isn't ideal on the XSX either but that's not my experience since I don't have one.

There's nothing wrong with similarly specced consoles being close to each other. It's the extremes that bother me since my system costs the same as the XSX.

Anyways thanks for being respectful.

 

[In Cold Blood]

Weird that you "get" his post when it didn't make much sense. Two years ago was seven months before the consoles launched. There was no talk of tools and XSX was the one proclaimed as the "most powerful console ever made", not PS5. The tools narrative came around much later after the initial benchmarks were revealed.

I get the point that some xbox guys are trying to turn the PS5 fanboy hypocrisy back on them which is what he was making.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I get the point that some xbox guys are trying to turn the PS5 fanboy hypocrisy back on them which is what he was making.

About the tools narrative?

I know that back then some people were exaggerating how bad the tools were aje what impact they would have if they were fixed.

Doesn’t mean there wasn’t any truth to that but some sites really stretched it a bit to far. Now I’m not talking about level headed sites like Digital Foundry but mostly the extremes you see on Twitter.

 

[adamsapple]

Let's wait for patch 1.05 and a revisit. It could iron out a lot of issues.

It could but realistically it would be too soon to have major engine reworks.

The game on PS5 already runs at a worse performance with a lower resolution. If they try to make it match the SX resolution thresholds, the performance will tank.

 

[In Cold Blood]

About the tools narrative?

I know that back then some people were exaggerating how bad the tools were aje what impact they would have if they were fixed.

Doesn’t mean there wasn’t any truth to that but some sites really stretched it a bit to far. Now I’m not talking about level headed sites like Digital Foundry but mostly the extremes you see on Twitter.

His point was that when XSX first came out and some games were performing better on PS5 Sony fanboys were laughing at MS saying their tools were late and effected the games performance. Now Lego is performing badly on PS5 Sony fanboys are crying about the tools in the TT engine not suiting PS5.
I said yeah I get the point about it but fanboys come and go and not to worry about. Tools do matter as do engines and developers resources.
While the XSX has some advantages in certain areas what happened with Lego goes way past any advantages that it might have. It has to be a development issue. I am willing to bet they are working on a patch right now for it.

MS went from having a dedicated Xbox development kit to a general dev kit that does Xbox, PC and Streaming. Most multiplat devs tend to lead with the PC, and as the Xbox and PC are in MSs GDK maybe TT lead with that and the ported to PS5? The game is always time poor and so maybe they launched it out the door with the PS5 version not optimised (yes, those PS5 tools) and they are just going to patch it once they finished optimising it?
This is what we don't know.

 

[MasterCornholio]

His point was that when XSX first came out and some games were performing better on PS5 Sony fanboys were laughing at MS saying their tools were late and effected the games performance. Now Lego is performing badly on PS5 Sony fanboys are crying about the tools in the TT engine not suiting PS5.
I said yeah I get the point about it but fanboys come and go and not to worry about. Tools do matter as do engines and developers resources.
While the XSX has some advantages in certain areas what happened with Lego goes way past any advantages that it might have. It has to be a development issue. I am willing to bet they are working on a patch right now for it.

MS went from having a dedicated Xbox development kit to a general dev kit that does Xbox, PC and Streaming. Most multiplat devs tend to lead with the PC, and as the Xbox and PC are in MSs GDK maybe TT lead with that and the ported to PS5? The game is always time poor and so maybe they launched it out the door with the PS5 version not optimised (yes, those PS5 tools) and they are just going to patch it once they finished optimising it?
This is what we don't know.

Microsoft talked about tools?

I always thought that was something that DF and Dealer brought up. I remember Microsoft saying they waited on production but not anything about bad tools.

 

[Topher]

His point was that when XSX first came out and some games were performing better on PS5 Sony fanboys were laughing at MS saying their tools were late and effected the games performance. Now Lego is performing badly on PS5 Sony fanboys are crying about the tools in the TT engine not suiting PS5.

You were among those pointing fingers at the engine so why are you suddenly trying to make this about "PS5 Sony fanboys"?

The NTT engine that it is built on was new for this game and apparently in pretty poor shape. Still, as XSX and PS5 share the same CPU and GPU tech I'm not sure why such a big gap between the two. Maybe it's a DX12 engine and it just got converted to PS5 late in the game.

There were several others referencing the engine in this thread and some would hardly be called "Sony fanboys". My point is there is no need to throw around "fanboy" rhetoric when the engine has been talked about widely.

 

[Hendrick's]

Most multiplat devs tend to lead with the PC, and as the Xbox and PC are in MSs GDK maybe TT lead with that

I think this is a crucial point. It will be interesting to see how trends go. People love to disregard the "lead platform" idea, but it is very real.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I think this is a crucial point. It will be interesting to see how trends go. People love to disregard the "lead platform" idea, but it is very real.

Was it that way with the One X?

I don’t necessarily believe the One X was far ahead of the Pro due to it being the lead platform. It was mostly down to the large hardware advantages that it had over the Pro. My theory anyways.

 

[Shmunter]

I just hope this puts to bed some of the narratives that had gone around in other game comparisons about the 'problems' with the Xbox Series design. How the split memory setup was a mistake and how performance issues are because of defective design.

It has always come down to software optimization and all current generation platforms are capable of excellent performance as long as the developers take the time to take advantage of a platforms' features. I'm certain the PS5 can do better here just like the XSS can better in other titles like MLB The Show 22.

Doesn’t close split memory situation. Yes it requires optimisation, and like any optimisation - not every dev will go the extra step due to budgets, time or skill. Any and all barriers will always cause others to trip up.

 

[In Cold Blood]

I went back to some of the twitter posts about the PS5 and XSX die shots and how they compared. This tweet was made over a year ago and it seems to have panned out. XSX with the higher resolutions and PS5 with better framerates.

 

[Hendrick's]

Was it that way with the One X?

I don’t necessarily believe the One X was far ahead of the Pro due to it being the lead platform. It was mostly down to the large hardware advantages that it had over the Pro. My theory anyways.

Not sure what you mean. The PS4 was the lead platform last gen. The difference now is that MS have one GDK that works for both PC and Xbox. That means if developers are using PC as a lead, it could benefit Xbox.

 

[In Cold Blood]

I think this is a crucial point. It will be interesting to see how trends go. People love to disregard the "lead platform" idea, but it is very real.

Yeah it is.
When I first heard that MS was doing away with an Xbox specific dev kit in favour of a general one for Xbox and PC I was shaking my head wondering why. I thought it would mean that Xbox wouldn't get as optimised as it should and would be treated just like another PC iteration.
Maybe this was MSs way of making sure the Xbox and PC (the two areas MS care about) were by default the lead platform for all multiplatform games. It would also mean that maybe the Xbox specific advantages like SFS and Mesh Shaders might get adopted as well.
I'm still not sure if it will be the best outcome for Xbox, but we will wait to see.
Might be a master-stroke, who knows.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Not sure what you mean. The PS4 was the lead platform last gen. The difference now is that MS have one GDK that works for both PC and Xbox. That means if developers are using PC as a lead, it could benefit Xbox.

I mean even though PlayStation was the lead platform last gen developers still managed to achieve huge improvements over the Pro with the One X.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Who knew a Lego Vs. thread would give posters a heart attack.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I went back to some of the twitter posts about the PS5 and XSX die shots and how they compared. This tweet was made over a year ago and it seems to have panned out. XSX with the higher resolutions and PS5 with better framerates.

That’s definitely one of the theories. Basically it’s just saying that each system has its own strengths when it comes to rendering the final image. I guess it helps explain some of the WTF moments when the XSX isn’t on par. Not all of them mind you because some of them can be due to optimization issues or developers not being familiar with the tools for example.

 

[Topher]

Who knew a Lego Vs. thread would give posters a heart attack.

Or a hard on.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Or a hard on.

 

[DarkMage619]

Doesn’t close split memory situation. Yes it requires optimisation, and like any optimisation - not every dev will go the extra step due to budgets, time or skill. Any and all barriers will always cause others to trip up.

So your argument is that this developer worked harder to break the 'barriers' of Xbox Series development to create a gimped PS5 version of this title? If the PS5 lacks the same 'barriers' that are on Xbox how do you explain the performance delta in this title?

Even when the PS5 outperformed Xbox in other titles it was never at this level nor in what we saw in Hitman 3. I think you are on far more stable groud to stick with this being a simple optimization issue over any hardware definency especially if the narrative is that Xbox is the sole defective device.

 

[John Wick]

not to do whataboutisms, but I completely agree with you. If this was swaying this kind of technical difference in favour of the PS5 we all know there would be pages of pretty cool right gifs( I actually love those , no matter the context ) and pages upon pages of how the PS5 deserves to be outperforming the xbox due to some diagrams of its design and why the Xbox can't perform on par with the PS5 with just as many diagrams and theories on why, with mumbo jumbo of all these crazy tech theories that have been regurgitated on twitter for 3 years.

The reality is, imo. theres something about this game that favours the series S and X architecture, im putting it down to the wide GPU BUT then there is such a huge disparity that something isnt right with the PS5 version. The gulf shouldn't be this big, especially with worse performance and tearing. I imagine it will be patched on ps5 in the coming weeks/months.

It would be amazing if someone with a 5700XT could see how this game performs at 1440P and 4k etc with similar settings to console.

I wish someone at DF would take a more in depth look. Alex perhaps, as I think with such a gulf it deserves it. Also, they should reach out to the dev to find out. This isnt a small game, its one of the biggest releases of the year. Pretty huge from the sales data.....and for the umpteenth time.....Why is no one giving us a proper tech breakdown of the Switch version. I find it fascinating that it even exists when I look at the series X version.

What are you on about? For the last 18 months all we've been hearing is the Xbox tools aren't ready, they are using the new GDK development kit etc everytime the SX showed a worse performing game. The SX will have about a 10% advantage on average in games. Not the massive gap Dealer and the clowns have been claiming.
Clearly there is an issue as to why the PS5 version is running so bad. Could be many reasons?

 

[assurdum]

Say what you want buddy. The results on screen quite clearly speak for themselves. This game looks and plays fantastic. I don't know, or really care, if you can't accept that or not.

It seems you not want accept the developers words who claimed publicly to have big difficult with their own engine, to prefer from the beginning UE5 and you desperately trying to build a personal version of the story because it runs fabulous on XSX. That's what I'm saying, simply. Probably they have to sweat blood to reach such result on XSX. How you can pretend to know better of the developers, why even put in bad light such people or the author of the article in some your posts, just for the sake of your own narrative. It's really irrational.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

I mean even though PlayStation was the lead platform last gen developers still managed to achieve huge improvements over the Pro with the One X.

The one x was hugely better than the pro. Ps5 xsx are a lot closer.

 

[MasterCornholio]

The one x was hugely better than the pro. Ps5 xsx are a lot closer.

It's why I believe the One X showed huge advantages over the Pro even though it wasn't the lead platform. Being lead matters but not as much as the hardware itself IMO.

I guess in some cases where the hardware is really difficult being lead platform matters a lot more. Like in the case with the PS3. Mind you I don't believe either system is a repeat of the PS3.

 

[01011001]

I mean even though PlayStation was the lead platform last gen developers still managed to achieve huge improvements over the Pro with the One X.

not always... there were quite a few games where the One X version was simply identical to the Pro version, and rare instances where it was literally worse.

here's one of the latter ones:

same res, same settings, worse performance on One X


games like Dark Souls Remastered on the other hand just used the Pro as a basis for a 1 to 1 port with zero differences/improvements.

 

[Darsxx82]

It's why I believe the One X showed huge advantages over the Pro even though it wasn't the lead platform. Being lead matters but not as much as the hardware itself IMO.

I guess in some cases where the hardware is really difficult being lead platform matters a lot more. Like in the case with the PS3. Mind you I don't believe either system is a repeat of the PS3.

There are cases, and not a few, where the XBO X version was the same as that of PS4Pro and even some case where the best version was that of Pro. Clearly being a base platform for development has a clear advantage, especially to ensure it is the most polished version.

If you add to that a lack of time and resources or even the simple commercial priority in favor of one plataform...... and you have that the hardware becomes irrelevant to the Studio, and you see cases like games performing equal (or even better) in PRO and XBO X.

If this could happen between XBO X and PRO where the difference in power was in each part of the hardware, imagine between consoles much more on par as XSX and PS5.

 

[Doctor Hades]

I hope TT can address the surprising performance and resolution difference in the PS5 version of LEGO Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga over the Xbox Series X version sooner rather than later because it is much larger than I would have expected. The resolution differences in this game were confirmed long before the Digital Foundry tech analysis video and it was clear from their testing that they didn't really play any of the versions extensively otherwise they would have noticed the screen tearing and lower framerates in the PS5 version and highlighted it in the video. I was actually very disappointed in the DF video; it was not only late coming but felt incomplete compared with other YouTube comparisons that came out days before theirs.

Personally, as an owner of a PS5 and Xbox Series X, and having played many third-party games on both systems, I feel that the consoles are pretty much on par with each other and they are much closer in terms of framerates and resolutions than the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro were (I also owned both). The biggest differences for me is the Xbox Series X having VRR, which gave it a massive advantage over the PS5 and is really the reason I bought it last year and switched to buying third-party games on the Microsoft console instead.

As hinted at, I bought the Xbox Series X version of this game, as I do for most third-party games now, rather than the PS5 version as I suspected it might have screen tearing based on previous LEGO games on the PS4/PS4 Pro and, of course, the PS5 still doesn't have VRR to help "hide" framerate stutters and screen tearing ("in the coming months" though...). I'm glad I did but even then, based on 20 hours of playing the Xbox Series X version in 60 fps Performance mode, I can easily say that this is the buggiest game I've played since Cyberpunk 2077 on my PS5. I've had several crashes and freezes as well as two black screen bugs during cutscenes, not to mention lots of animation glitches where there character slides across the screen during puzzle room sections. Not 100% sure if the PS5 version is the same - Digital Foundry made no mention of stability issues during their video but given that their coverage felt rushed and incomplete then it wouldn't surprise me if that's because they only played a couple of hours of each game - but I suspect it is because I have seen numerous posts from people who have had these issues so I know I'm not alone.

I am sure the crashes and performance issues will be addressed in time but the big issue is that most people are playing these games *right now* so their experience of the game is being spoilt by these bugs which is not great.

 

[Topher]

I hope TT can address the surprising performance and resolution difference in the PS5 version of LEGO Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga over the Xbox Series X version sooner rather than later because it is much larger than I would have expected. The resolution differences in this game were confirmed long before the Digital Foundry tech analysis video and it was clear from their testing that they didn't really play any of the versions extensively otherwise they would have noticed the screen tearing and lower framerates in the PS5 version and highlighted it in the video. I was actually very disappointed in the DF video; it was not only late coming but felt incomplete compared with other YouTube comparisons that came out days before theirs.

Personally, as an owner of a PS5 and Xbox Series X, and having played many third-party games on both systems, I feel that the consoles are pretty much on par with each other and they are much closer in terms of framerates and resolutions than the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro were (I also owned both). The biggest differences for me is the Xbox Series X having VRR, which gave it a massive advantage over the PS5 and is really the reason I bought it last year and switched to buying third-party games on the Microsoft console instead.

As hinted at, I bought the Xbox Series X version of this game, as I do for most third-party games now, rather than the PS5 version as I suspected it might have screen tearing based on previous LEGO games on the PS4/PS4 Pro and, of course, the PS5 still doesn't have VRR to help "hide" framerate stutters and screen tearing ("in the coming months" though...). I'm glad I did but even then, based on 20 hours of playing the Xbox Series X version in 60 fps Performance mode, I can easily say that this is the buggiest game I've played since Cyberpunk 2077 on my PS5. I've had several crashes and freezes as well as two black screen bugs during cutscenes, not to mention lots of animation glitches where there character slides across the screen during puzzle room sections. Not 100% sure if the PS5 version is the same - Digital Foundry made no mention of stability issues during their video but given that their coverage felt rushed and incomplete then it wouldn't surprise me if that's because they only played a couple of hours of each game - but I suspect it is because I have seen numerous posts from people who have had these issues so I know I'm not alone.

I am sure the crashes and performance issues will be addressed in time but the big issue is that most people are playing these games *right now* so their experience of the game is being spoilt by these bugs which is not great.

I was reading much of the same regarding bugs on sites while I was googling for details on when patch 1.05 would be released and what it would entail. Seems a lot of people are not happy with the state of the game.

 

[thatJohann]

I'm not surprised it's taking them so long to get the next patch out. I think they might be trying to fit in as many bug fixes as possible given all the bugs I keep seeing on Reddit.

Maybe they scrapped 1.05 and are working on 1.06 instead. Or maybe the patch didn't pass certification from Sony/MS.

What would be great would be a status update by their community manager. Takes a second and would calm everyone down.

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

Have they even confirmed that they're fixing these PS5 issues outside of bug fixes?

 

[Topher]

Have they even confirmed that they're fixing these PS5 issues outside of bug fixes?

Only thing I found when searching was this:

Lego Star Wars Update 1.05 Patch Notes​

• Added general stability improvements.
• Added various performance fixes.
• Addressed game glitches.
• Addressed game save related issues.
• Fixed game fps drop issue.
• Added minor UI fixes.
• Other minor fixes.

Note: The full changelog will be available soon.

Lego Star Wars The Skywalker Saga Update 1.09 Patch Notes

Lego Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga update 1.09 (1.009) details for PS4, PS5, and Xbox players. Read Lego Star Wars update 1.09 patch notes.

updatecrazy.com

But this article isn't linking to anything official so I'm not sure this is trustworthy.

 

[Shmunter]

So your argument is that this developer worked harder to break the 'barriers' of Xbox Series development to create a gimped PS5 version of this title? If the PS5 lacks the same 'barriers' that are on Xbox how do you explain the performance delta in this title?

Even when the PS5 outperformed Xbox in other titles it was never at this level nor in what we saw in Hitman 3. I think you are on far more stable groud to stick with this being a simple optimization issue over any hardware definency especially if the narrative is that Xbox is the sole defective device.

So your argument split memory is an advantage? No quite sure what you are trying to say.

Hitman 3 performance on XsX was below ps5 at the cost of resolution. Is this a VRR type of win!?!

 

[Riky]

So your argument split memory is an advantage? No quite sure what you are trying to say.

Hitman 3 performance on XsX was below ps5 at the cost of resolution. Is this a VRR type of win!?!

Not really, the only drop with a huge resolution and higher settings was in some field on one level, it was worth having the pristine image quality and better shadows for the other 99.9% of the game.

The higher bandwith probably helped.

 

[avin]

The closest I've seen to good data is the Id next-gen Doom Eternal 120 Hz patches. They ran at 1800p on the XSX versus - looking it up - 1584p on the PS5. Not a big difference, about a 30% delta. And that would probably be even smaller without hardware VRS on the XSX, which I remember they used, and I really don't expect third-party studios to use, or at least not often.

Still, that's probably the best sense I have of what these two systems can do in the hands of amazing developers, which obviously doesn't mean that's what we'll get. In the real world, with real world constraints, other things including engines and optimization can matter much more than <30%, as I believe we continue to see.

avin

 

[MasterCornholio]

not always... there were quite a few games where the One X version was simply identical to the Pro version, and rare instances where it was literally worse.

here's one of the latter ones:

same res, same settings, worse performance on One X


games like Dark Souls Remastered on the other hand just used the Pro as a basis for a 1 to 1 port with zero differences/improvements.

Well I don't think it would be wrong to say that the vast majority of games on the One X showed big improvements over the Pro versions.

 

[intbal]

Well I don't think it would be wrong to say that the vast majority of games on the One X showed big improvements over the Pro versions.

Since the X came out a year later than the Pro, a lot of enhancement patches that showed up for Pro just never materialized on X. Developers had moved on. So the One X ended up running the game at base Xbox One settings. That's true of most of the early library.
The Xbox One library consists of 2,931 games, unofficially. Microsoft's official website for X enhancements lists 1,005 games. So 66% of the games on One X are still stuck at base settings, usually 900p/30hz. And that's not taking into account the later games where developers targeted Playstation as lead platform because of it's huge install base and the One X ended up with copied settings. Mass Effect Legendary Edition is a notable example. Exact same features and resolution, but the Pro actually runs the game better.
The dark legacy of Kinect and the ways it crippled the Xbox One still haunt the Xbox brand.

 

[DarkMage619]

So your argument split memory is an advantage? No quite sure what you are trying to say.

Hitman 3 performance on XsX was below ps5 at the cost of resolution. Is this a VRR type of win!?!

Do know why MS designed the XSX with memory at different speeds? The 10 GB out of the 16 has higher bandwidth than memory in any other game console. Regardless if you think it is a 'barrier' to developers it didn't prevent this title was performing well on Xbox Series consoles. Perhaps the Xbox hardware design is fine and game optimization is the real way to improve performance in these titles.

Not really, the only drop with a huge resolution and higher settings was in some field on one level, it was worth having the pristine image quality and better shadows for the other 99.9% of the game.

The higher bandwith probably helped.

It's always funny that the only thing some people bring up is that ONE area of the game that had a small performance dip and ignore every thing else. I suppose it's hard for some people to accept that Mark Cerny isn't the only hardware engineer capable of designing a well made console.

 

[dcmk7]

Regardless if you think it is a 'barrier' to developers it didn't prevent this title was performing well on Xbox Series consoles.

This title performance doesn't reflect the true picture of what's going on now does it.

For instance Xbox One X has out performed XSS in several titles, even flagship first party titles, so how do you explain that?

XSS performance is odd to say the least, doesn't seem to be able to run titles well without big compromises. Which is contrary to the marketing and promises of Jason Ronald.

 

[01011001]

Well I don't think it would be wrong to say that the vast majority of games on the One X showed big improvements over the Pro versions.

I wouldn't say big, most had some improvements. some had big improvements. but that varied highly.

some games ran with 2x the resolution, others had like a 20% res advantage.
some ran at higher resolutions but worse framerates... it was a very mixed bag.

and it was always clear that the base PS4 was the lead platform, from which Pro and One X versions were derived from.

the One X was sometimes really neglected, it happened multiple times that a game had lower settings on One X than on Pro simply because the devs didn't bother to actually adjust the settings, simply used the One S version as a basis and only increased the resolution.

lead platform is always something that can result in a clear advantage for one system over the other.

it was arguably even more egregious back in the PS2/GC/Xbox days where there existed titles that ran worse on GC or Xbox than on PS2, which is crazy when you remember that the GPUs of these consoles were 1.5x and 3.2x as powerful respectively, compared to the PS2's

at least back then the devs had an excuse due to the vast hardware differences, which made it more complicated to fully utilize all systems to their fullest potential

 

[DarkMage619]

lead platform is always something that can result in a clear advantage for one system over the other.

It can't be understated how important being the lead platform for development is. It explains lots of the performance issues we've seen in some of these titles. Developers were head over heels for the PS5 dev kit seeing how close it was to the PS4 kit and since PS4 was the lead platform for many of the titles last generation it translated in to better optimizations now. I doubt the PS5 was the lead platform on this title and it explains the lack of optimization here.

 

[Physiognomonics]

The closest I've seen to good data is the Id next-gen Doom Eternal 120 Hz patches. They ran at 1800p on the XSX versus - looking it up - 1584p on the PS5. Not a big difference, about a 30% delta. And that would probably be even smaller without hardware VRS on the XSX, which I remember they used, and I really don't expect third-party studios to use, or at least not often.

Still, that's probably the best sense I have of what these two systems can do in the hands of amazing developers, which obviously doesn't mean that's what we'll get. In the real world, with real world constraints, other things including engines and optimization can matter much more than <30%, as I believe we continue to see.

avin

XSX ran at a slightly higher resolution but actually looked lower resolution in some areas because of VRS that was blurring some textures. Besides even with VRS it was only a small resolution difference advantage. Like when PS5 has the edge, it's almost always by a small margin up to 20%.

Here it's clearly a bug.