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[DenchDeckard]

Maybe we have reached a point where the art alone and other things is just not possible to give a similar jump than previous generations. The cost to build is just far too high?

Will be good to see spider man 2 this year anyway. Wonder how much better it will look to miles morales?

 

[OZ9000]

Spiderman 2 will look above average like every other game this generation.

I'm 'satisfied' with the visuals of most games but nothing has blown me away like prev generations. Current gen games look like souped up PS4 games - something I've played for almost 10 years on my PC.

Examples
- GT3, MGS2/MGS3, God of War on PS2
- God Of War 3, Killzone 2, MGS4, Uncharted 1/2/3, The Last of Us, Resident Evil 5 on PS3
- Killzone Shadowfall, God Of War, Uncharted 4 on PS4
- Half Life 2, UT2004, Doom 3, Doom 2016, Crysis 1/2/3 on PC

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

imo GTA4 has better controls than RDR2.
that is mostly due to the fact that the game expects less from you, so the bad controls don't really come into the spotlight as much.
GTA4 in general had so much stuff that was abandoned afterwards that should have been in GTA5 but wasn't

but IMO the only 3D game Rockstar games ever made, that actually controls really well, is Max Payne 3. somehow they managed to make a really good shooter while maintaining their physics and animation work they like to do since GTA4, and then just threw all they did with that out the window after that.

Don't forget Table Tennis!

 

[shiru]

Trash game.


Great games.


Only good thing it has is its swinging mechanics.


Trash games.


Mediocre game.

Trash game.


Come back to me when you actually understand "everything".

Based post.

 

[shiru]

TLOU 2, RDR2, Death Stranding, Spiderman, HFW, Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Cyberpunk 2077 and GoW Ragnorak says hi. Games should have everything not just GaM3PlaY…

Agreed fellow gamer, g4m2p1@y is pretty lame don't you think? Especially when it gets in the way of graphics. Just ugh, go away lameplay.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Agreed fellow gamer, g4m2p1@y is pretty lame don't you think? Especially when it gets in the way of graphics. Just ugh, go away lameplay.

Games should have it all..

 

[nial]

and lacked the heart and personality of the PS3 titles

To be fair, the PS3 games missed all of that too. It was when they started hiring TV cartoon writers (ugh) for a story that, frankly, most people didn't really care about. Tools of Destruction was an amazing graphical showcase in 2007 (much like Rift Apart was in 2021 for PS5), but that was about it.

 

[NightmareFarm]

There's been no noticeable upgrade at all in terms of graphical fidelity this gen so far.

 

[Mr Branding]

I feel graphics are ok nowadays but gameplay has still a long ways to go. Some gamplay systems design is still based around gen 7

 

[01011001]

Don't forget Table Tennis!

how could I? lol such a weird game...

 

[simpatico]

I feel graphics are ok nowadays but gameplay has still a long ways to go. Some gamplay systems design is still based around gen 7

I'm replaying Half Life 2 currently and it's crazy how most FPS games today have much less interactivity than this old beast. The world really felt alive, most now are just a static shooting gallery.

 

[Beechos]

Maybe graphics, size/scope, and other things were so easy to create back then due to lack of detail/scopes devs had more time to spend on other things like gameplay/interactivity?

It is crazy how older games had more physics/destruction/Interactivity.

 

[leo-j]

this gen has a lot of ps4 pro ish games being released with good loading times, Hogwarts legacy feels like that, but it doesn’t mean games like Demon’s souls (looks a half gen better than Elden ring imo) and rift apart didn’t happen, those games are the best looking ps5 games and they are a tier above in the visuals department.

 

[ChiefDada]

There's been no noticeable upgrade at all in terms of graphical fidelity this gen so far.

Not true but whatever...

 

[NightmareFarm]

Not true but whatever...

How is it not true? Is this your first gaming generation?

 

[ChiefDada]

How is it not true?

Because we have games with HW accelerated RT providing more accurate lighting than console has ever had before. We have stable 60fps+ which is in fact a measure of fidelity regardless of how developers want to label performance profiles. We have much higher resolution textures and geometry in stand out titles that have released over the past few years. All of this is easily quantifiable. Is it anywhere near the max capabilities of the new consoles? Absolutely not. But claiming they haven't provided a noticeable upgrade is just as wrong.

Is this your first gaming generation?

Far from it. My first console was Sega Genesis, so I've quite literally been gaming since the beginning lol.

 

[poodaddy]

My first console was Sega Genesis, so I've quite literally been gaming since the beginning lol.

I agree with everything you said, but I won't lie to you Maynard, this did make me laugh a bit. I get what you're saying though, and the other guy's nuts with what he's saying.

 

[NightmareFarm]

Because we have games with HW accelerated RT providing more accurate lighting than console has ever had before. We have stable 60fps+ which is in fact a measure of fidelity regardless of how developers want to label performance profiles. We have much higher resolution textures and geometry in stand out titles that have released over the past few years. All of this is easily quantifiable. Is it anywhere near the max capabilities of the new consoles? Absolutely not. But claiming they haven't provided a noticeable upgrade is just as wrong.



Far from it. My first console was Sega Genesis, so I've quite literally been gaming since the beginning lol.

Then you should know that graphics have stagnated since the late 10s.

 

[OCASM]

Because we have games with HW accelerated RT providing more accurate lighting than console has ever had before. We have stable 60fps+ which is in fact a measure of fidelity regardless of how developers want to label performance profiles. We have much higher resolution textures and geometry in stand out titles that have released over the past few years. All of this is easily quantifiable. Is it anywhere near the max capabilities of the new consoles? Absolutely not. But claiming they haven't provided a noticeable upgrade is just as wrong.

History repeats itself (1:30:26 to 1:38:58):



TL;DW version: If you don't have artists that properly showcase your tech improvements nobody will notice them.

 

[Keihart]

Just make a pc.

If Spiderman is true next gen, it will look less sharp and dense than Horizon Forbidden West.

Ray tracing, next gen geometry, physics etc will eat up a lot of render budget that Horizon FW had.

You need someone making next gen games on PC first, shit is pretty underwhelming if we consider TLoU2 and the remake of 1 are still the better looking games on any platform.
For all the Ray tracing implementations Cyberpunk got, it still doesnt look better than those even on PC.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Spider-Man 2 has potential to be the top graphical game of all time I’d say GT7, some PC game are all time.

 

[jm89]

Horizon FW still makes my pupils dilate

 

[consoul]

I thought we were off to a decent start with Demon Souls (probably could be done on a PS4)

Dude.

 

[charles8771]

Its called diminishing returns, that how the leap from PS2 to PS3 is far bigger than the leap from PS3 to PS4
Or well far more noticeable.

 

[GymWolf]

Its called diminishing returns, that how the leap from PS2 to PS3 is far bigger than the leap from PS3 to PS4
Or well far more noticeable.

We could have the same jump, the console are just way too weak.

The endgame of real time graphic is to look like real life and i'm pretty sure that we are still light years away from that.

 

[Fabieter]

We could have the same jump, the console are just way too weak.

The endgame of real time graphic is to look like real life and i'm pretty sure that we are still light years away from that.

Yea the path tracing of cyperpunk77 shows a clear leap but the hardware you need is sick

 

[01011001]

We could have the same jump, the console are just way too weak.

The endgame of real time graphic is to look like real life and i'm pretty sure that we are still light years away from that.

the jumps are getting smaller, but they are still massive.
the jump from Xbox One to Series X is 9x on the GPU.

the difference between Xbox and Xbox 360 was a 12x jump in GPU power. so a bigger jump, but not that much bigger.

you just can't add that much more meaningful detail to characters with such a jump.
having a jump from a circle made with 10 sides, to one with 100 sides is away more noticeable and meaningful than a jump from a 100 sided circle to a 1000 sided one.

btw, this is a circle made from 100 straight lines, alsl called a hectogon

and here is one with 1000 sides, known as a Chiliagon

do you think you'd see the difference without the red dots marking the corners?
which one is this down there?

the same is happening with game graphics.
if a character has 300k polygons or 3million polygons is not easily apparent. and that's true for general world detail, shadow detail etc.
you can see a difference, but it's getting harder

 

[GymWolf]

Yea the path tracing of cyperpunk77 shows a clear leap but the hardware you need is sick

And that game still use last gen assets and animation.

 

[winjer]

And that game still use last gen assets and animation.

And a lot of PS3 resolution textures.

 

[GymWolf]

the jumps are getting smaller, but they are still massive.
the jump from Xbox One to Series X is 9x on the GPU.

the difference between Xbox and Xbox 360 was a 12x jump in GPU power. so a bigger jump, but not that much bigger.

you just can't add that much more meaningful detail to characters with such a jump.
having a jump from a circle made with 10 sides, to one with 100 sides is away more noticeable and meaningful than a jump from a 100 sided circle to a 1000 sided one.

btw, this is a circle made from 100 straight lines, alsl called a hectogon

and here is one with 1000 sides, known as a Chiliagon

do you think you'd see the difference without the red dots marking the corners?
which one is this down there?

the same is happening with game graphics.
if a character has 300k polygons or 3million polygons is not easily apparent. and that's true for general world detail, shadow detail etc.
you can see a difference, but it's getting harder

It still doesn't change the fact that we are light years from real life graphic, animations, physics, interactions etc or that the console are too weak to show an actual jump from past gen.

If you think that a protagonist is not gonna look that different, how about any other character on the fucking screen? How far we are from having every single npcs on the streets of a gta title to look like senua in hb2? (And she still clearly looks like a vg character so not even her final form).
What about their animations, what about total interactions.

I don't wanna hear talking about diminishing returns until we reach movie quality cg that almost look like the real thing (almost).

I get what you say and i know it is the right term to use, but it still sound super silly when we are still that far from real life graphic.

 

[Represent.]

Yea the path tracing of cyperpunk77 shows a clear leap but the hardware you need is sick

The hardware is there. The talent, ambition and sometimes budget isn’t

 

[01011001]

It still doesn't change the fact that we are light years from real life graphic, animations, physics, interactions etc or that the console are too weak to show an actual jump from past gen.

If you think that a protagonist is not gonna look that different, how about any other character on the fucking screen? How far we are from having every single npcs on the streets of a gta title to look òike senua in hb2? (And she still clearly looks like a vg character so not even her final form).
What about their animations, what about total interactions?

I don't wanna hear talking about diminishing returna until we reach movie quality cg that almost look like the real thing (almost).

I get what you say and i know it is the right term to use, but it still sound super silly when are still that far from real life graphic.

getting 80% there is the easy part, it's the last 20% that's slow and hard.

if 9x the GPU power only gives us the difference we see currently compared to last gen. then imagining how massive the hardware jump will need to be to actually get to true photorealism.

a 8 to 12 times jump in gpu power was always pretty normal, and in the past those jumps were instantaneously apparent in launch titles etc.
now that same jump makes you take a close look to really take note of what looks like it wouldn't have been possible on a PS4 or Xbox One...
and that is even tho we are now basically back in the 1080p (and slightly above) range for many games.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Its called diminishing returns, that how the leap from PS2 to PS3 is far bigger than the leap from PS3 to PS4
Or well far more noticeable.

GTA IV seemed impossible when I first played it on 360. Graphics and physics.

 

[01011001]

GTA IV seemed impossible when I first played it on 360. Graphics and physics.

Euphoria was a crazy looking physics/ai engine back then. and even now there's almost nothing that gives more impressive results.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Euphoria was a crazy looking physics/ai engine back then. and even now there's almost nothing that gives more impressive results.

Yep, IMO GTA IV has better physics than V.

 

[GymWolf]

getting 80% there is the easy part, it's the last 20% that's slow and hard.

if 9x the GPU power only gives us the difference we see currently compared to last gen. then imagining how massive the hardware jump will need to be to actually get to true photorealism.

a 8 to 12 times jump in gpu power was always pretty normal, and in the past those jumps were instantaneously apparent in launch titles etc.
now that same jump makes you take a close look to really take note of what looks like it wouldn't have been possible on a PS4 or Xbox One...
and that is even tho we are now basically back in the 1080p (and slightly above) range for many games.

More like 60%.

If we are maybe at 90% in some aspects, we are probably 20-30% in others.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Euphoria was a crazy looking physics/ai engine back then. and even now there's almost nothing that gives more impressive results.

My dream game is mix between GTA IV and typical Bethesda RPG game. Set in 80'-2000 New York with open ended quest design, stealth, thievery. GTA OblIVion.

 

[GymWolf]

Euphoria was a crazy looking physics/ai engine back then. and even now there's almost nothing that gives more impressive results.

If it was for me, i would put the euphoria engine even on the fucking tetris, but alas...

 

[MidGenRefresh]

If it was for me, i would put the euphoria engine even on the fucking tetris, but alas...

Love that game. Best driving in an open world game, fuck the haters.

 

[GymWolf]

Love that game. Best driving in an open world game, fuck the haters.

I hate driving games so the driving being so realistic was a turn off to me, not gonna lie.

I only like to run over people to see the euphoria in action.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

I hate driving games so the driving being so realistic was a turn off to me, not gonna lie.

I only like to run over people to see the euphoria in action.

Fair enough.

 

[64bitmodels]

he jump from Xbox One to Series X is 9x on the GPU.

which would be more noticeable and appreciated if the Xbox One X didn't come out....

 

[64bitmodels]

Euphoria was a crazy looking physics/ai engine back then. and even now there's almost nothing that gives more impressive results.

It's a shame. If Euphoria were open source it could've easily replaced Havok. But now Rockstar's the only studio who owns the rights to teh engine and no one is gonna license it in their game, so we're kind of screwed for realistic ragdolls

 

[GymWolf]

Fair enough.

It has been a passion of mine since saint row 1

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I've only been impressed with demon's souls, ratchet, returnal and hfw.
Considering one of them is cross-gen, kinda tells you this gen hasn't been the strongest graphically.

 

[RTX4070]

Physics is one of the hardest part to develope. I mean you gonna try simulating gravity thats hard af. And applying it to all objects in the game correctly is a pain in the butt.

 

[GymWolf]

It's a shame. If Euphoria were open source it could've easily replaced Havok. But now Rockstar's the only studio who owns the rights to teh engine and no one is gonna license it in their game, so we're kind of screwed for realistic ragdolls

Not even ND has something like euphoria and if they can't manage to beat it, there is no hope for other developers in the near future.
We can only hope that at least rockstar is improving the version they have for gta6.

 

[phant0m]

Yep, IMO GTA IV has better physics than V.

facts

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's a shame. If Euphoria were open source it could've easily replaced Havok. But now Rockstar's the only studio who owns the rights to teh engine and no one is gonna license it in their game, so we're kind of screwed for realistic ragdolls

I don't even think they (the tech) exists anymore. At least not for licensing.

Euphoria (software) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In 2017, NaturalMotion announced it would end licensing of Euphoria, along with its other technologies, to concentrate on mobile games.[8]

NaturalMotion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In October 2017, Zynga closed NaturalMotion's Oxford office.[21]

A side-effect of the mobile carrot chase. Sad, really.

 

[64bitmodels]

I don't even think they (the tech) exists anymore. At least not for licensing.

Euphoria (software) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

NaturalMotion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A side-effect of the mobile carrot chase. Sad, really.

wonderful. just wonderful. So now it's bascialy only limited to a studio who can produce like 2 games a decade.

Imagine the impact it could've had to see all the ugly unrealistic ragdolls get replaced with actually life accurate human physics that would make ragdolls look as good as canned deaths. But nope.

I can only hope whatever Nvidia AI solution they're coming up with stacks up. But i heavily doubt it. ; _ ;