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[The_Mike]

You mean paid online? There was online before Xbox. The irony is that servers in that era were almost entirely P2P on consoles. If there is one thing I hold against Xbox fans is how they try to spin this as a positive.

Thanks MS! For starting the trend of charging for something that should be free in the first place...

edit: The irony now, is that paid online is what keeps Sony so far ahead in the gaming subscriptions business and one of the things that gives them such an advantage for having a larger market share.

I remember playing on ps3, where you couldn't chat private with a friend and play together in game, you had to use Skype on a phone.

I remember ps3 was down for what, a week or a month and got compensated with the choice of three games or something like that. And deal with random outages. There's a reason so many people joked about psn being down at that time.

Meanwhile you could pay on xbox, true, but also get a service worth paying for. I could talk to my friend or in a party with few clicks, and easily join games together.

I had both generations, and I went from 360 to ps3, and really felt the downgrade

Sure, blame Microsoft for paying for online.

But credit them for Sony upping their fucking game regarding online. Now Sony also needs to up their game about backward compatibility and preservation of gaming history.

 

[Wulfer]

pso “online” for some reason never worked for me.
on pc my very beat online game was Argentum Online.

PSO worked well with a Broadband Adapter! Which Sega was the first one to introduce that to console too!

Sega's ideas seem to get credited to Sony and MS. MS knew Sega's plan and many think the Xbox was the successor to the Dreamcast. Sony, just got the credit because Sega wasn't around anymore. The online, the PC additions, even the memory card was on the Saturn first. Who, copied who??? (PS JLB that wasn't directed at you.)

 

[John Wick]

The high street killed the high street. Higher prices, more inconvenience because of travel and costs to get there, shitty parking situation in busy crowded towns (in the UK at least).

Just like the car killed the horse and cart. Why do they need investigating because they offered a better, cheaper and more convenient solution that everyone clearly wants?

Stupid.

They out priced the High St by being based in Tax havens like Jersey or Ireland and paying virtually zero tax. Which they continue to do so today.
No not everyone wants to buy everything from Amazon. I especially don't buy clothes online. Wait till you lose some of the choice then tell me it's a great idea?

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

always lol

I mean...no one is always right in the world but you get what i mean. He clearly has inside info everywhere, including Sony that run a tight ship over there.

 

[Complistic]

There was no reason for it to fail lol.

 

[Craig of War]

Microsoft probably has a team of lawyers ready to do battle if the FTC thinks they can mess with this deal wile letting Disney buy Fox

 

[MOTM]

Armchair analyst is really a thing lol.

The deal went through OF COURSE.

 

[AmuroChan]

You can't look at just the stock price and conclude that Wall Street was betting against the deal. You also have to take into account all the call options that institutional and retail investors are holding and haven't exercised yet.

 

[Hendrick's]

You can't look at just the stock price and conclude that Wall Street was betting against the deal. You also have to take into account all the call options that institutional and retail investors are holding and haven't exercised yet.

None of that is important for click bait articles. Jason is the masterbaiter.

 

[ReBurn]

I know it's crazy. One of the genuine people to have inside sources but let's ban him lol.

Folks around here always want someone or something banned.

 

[nominedomine]

I remember playing on ps3, where you couldn't chat private with a friend and play together in game, you had to use Skype on a phone.

I remember ps3 was down for what, a week or a month and got compensated with the choice of three games or something like that. And deal with random outages. There's a reason so many people joked about psn being down at that time.

Meanwhile you could pay on xbox, true, but also get a service worth paying for. I could talk to my friend or in a party with few clicks, and easily join games together.

I had both generations, and I went from 360 to ps3, and really felt the downgrade

Sure, blame Microsoft for paying for online.

But credit them for Sony upping their fucking game regarding online. Now Sony also needs to up their game about backward compatibility and preservation of gaming history.

Sounds great man, I'm glad you enjoyed it so much. If you think paying for online is a good thing and are thankful for it, all the power to you.

That's easy to say with hindsight. What Valve (Gabe) brought to the PC world in 2003 was visionary. Most people, myself included, could not have predicted that "most people" would be completely ok with not owning a physical copy of the software you purchased. That's just not how it was done in those times. You are basically saying that MS should have predicted the future which is not a reasonable stance to have in my opinion.

Broadband changed the face of commerce and many of industries that were successful with the old way of doing business simply were not ready for it. Look at what happened to the retail industry across most of the globe.

I agree it seems odd that MS has such a lack of content on it's current store front, but when you put into perspective that the success of a digital storefront is derived soley from content created by 3rd parties it makes more sense. Developers won't spend money creating content for a storefront where there isn't much financial incentive and consumers won't use storefronts that don't have content.

Just my two cents

Gabe did predict the future and bet on PC and digital distribution. MS bet on consoles and on them being able to beat Sony at their game. At least that's how I see it.

Network latency and lag.

Nvidia are best placed to produce a successful streaming service, but regardless of how many data centres you have, lag is still going to be there.

So what is the solution?

From my experience if the server is next to you the latency is fine. Compression is a much bigger issue, feels like you are playing a youtube video.

No, the irony is, that's the thing that will allow MS to purchase Activision/Blizzard and others. However, right now you think it's a plus on the Sony side when it's actually far from it. It's one of those games where your going I'm winning, I'm winning. What the hell happened???

We'll see how things unfold, my bet is on who is already far ahead and who has had consistent success in the gaming market, even if they don't have the same deep pocked and backing for huge acquisitions.

 

[freefornow]

I think it's safe to assume that Richard Hoeg just got blocked assclown Schreier

His video on this is on point!
Jason should not only have his tail between his ass but so far up his rectum that he has a second tongue.

 

[The_Mike]

Sounds great man, I'm glad you enjoyed it so much. If you think paying for online is a good thing and are thankful for it, all the power to you.

I don't think paying for online is a good thing. Chris I even skip world of Warcraft on pc because it costs a sub.

But I am enjoying actually having an online experience. If we could get the same experience for free I'd be happy. But the ps3/360 gen really showed the difference between free and paid online.

 

[nominedomine]

I don't think paying for online is a good thing. Chris I even skip world of Warcraft on pc because it costs a sub.

But I am enjoying actually having an online experience. If we could get the same experience for free I'd be happy. But the ps3/360 gen really showed the difference between free and paid online.

I don't even know what private chat id or why that makes things so much better, it's just not something I use or value. If I'm playing a multiplayer I mute everybody, I learned that long ago. When I had to use something like that it was Ventrilo back in the day and Discord recently.

I had both a 360 and PS3 in that gen and I remember that when I stopped paying for Xbox Live I was offended by all the things I wasn't able to do on the console, I pretty much ditched the 360 after that, it was the one I bought first even, if my memory serves me streaming apps and even the browser was behind a paywall.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I find it absolutely remarkable that the op didn’t bother reading shit.

 

[Infamy v1]

Lmao, ok bro, massive acquisition of a publisher by Sony. Sony was so ahead of the game they did it in 1993, MS took this long to figure out how to do it.

"MS bought ABK, Sony has never purchased a publisher "

Uh, Sony was the first one to purchase a publisher

"Who, Psygnosis?"

Yes.

"Lmao, Sony was so ahead of the game that they purchased a publisher in 1993 meanwhile MS took this long to figure out how to do it"

...you can't even make this shit up.

 

[The_Mike]

I don't even know what private chat id or why that makes things so much better, it's just not something I use or value.

It's been able to easily join games with your friend and talk together privately without being able to hear public idiots.

That wasn't really available on ps3, and you not using it - cool for you if you don't play games with your friends. I do.

If I'm playing a multiplayer I mute everybody, I learned that long ago. When I had to use something like that it was Ventrilo back in the day and Discord recently.

We are going down the "yeah, you can pay for convenience, but listen if you got a pho..."

It's trash you have to use third party peripherals to talk with your friends.

I had both a 360 and PS3 in that gen and I remember that when I stopped paying for Xbox Live I was offended by all the things I wasn't able to do on the console, I pretty much ditched the 360 after that, it was the one I bought first even, if my memory serves me streaming apps and even the browser was behind a paywall.

I don't say paying for online gaming is a good thing.

But if it can't be good without paying then it's not really an option.

Sony showed us that you can't get good free online. Microsoft just went too far with walled online stuff, as you said.

I'd love free online gaming as with Xbox Live, but I don't believe in it being possible.

 

[nominedomine]

"MS bought ABK, Sony has never purchased a publisher "

Uh, Sony was the first one to purchase a publisher

"Who, Psygnosis?"

Yes.

"Lmao, Sony was so ahead of the game that they purchased a publisher in 1993 meanwhile MS took this long to figure out how to do it"

...you can't even make this shit up.

At least read what was posted before doing something like this. I actually asked if Sony had bought a publisher. If you think Psygnosis in 1993 when Sony was entering the market and Activision Blizzard in 2022 after MS had just acquired Bethesda are similar in any way, ok, take the "win".

 

[nominedomine]

It's been able to easily join games with your friend and talk together privately without being able to hear public idiots.

That wasn't really available on ps3, and you not using it - cool for you if you don't play games with your friends. I do.


We are going down the "yeah, you can pay for convenience, but listen if you got a pho..."

It's trash you have to use third party peripherals to talk with your friends.


I don't say paying for online gaming is a good thing.

But if it can't be good without paying then it's not really an option.

Sony showed us that you can't get good free online. Microsoft just went too far with walled online stuff, as you said.

I'd love free online gaming as with Xbox Live, but I don't believe in it being possible.

Are you making the argument that PC is trash because it doesn't have that? I use discord on PC and I don't think it's trash, a lot of people on console use Discord too.

PC online was always free and if anything it was better than consoles in a lot of ways and still is. Nintendo Online is paid and it isn't very good, if PS3 was behind it wasn't because it was free, it being free was pretty good, it's a complete shame that they took inspiration from MS and copied their business model, paid online is extremely unhealthy for consoles.

 

[Topher]

Folks around here always want someone or something banned.

 

[Umbasaborne]

I know it's crazy. One of the genuine people to have inside sources but let's ban him lol.

I agree, i think he can be smug and holier than thou online. But he is an excellent journalist, who doesnt throw his name on rumors for clout like grubb and the other twitter insiders do

 

[Hezekiah]

So what is the solution?

From my experience if the server is next to you the latency is fine. Compression is a much bigger issue, feels like you are playing a youtube video.

Not sure, I imagine the biggest companies will just try to brute force it. Tbh I'm sure you're right in that if you're really close to a data centre latency will be minimal, but in reality that's not practical for the whole populations.

In terms of compression, I've heard that it's like a lower resolution that is upscaled and can be pretty good, but that's on GeForce Now which is the best out there.

 

[The_Mike]

Are you making the argument that PC is trash because it doesn't have that? I use discord on PC and I don't think it's trash, a lot of people on console use Discord too.

PC online was always free and if anything it was better than consoles in a lot of ways and still is. Nintendo Online is paid and it isn't very good, if PS3 was behind it wasn't because it was free, it being free was pretty good, it's a complete shame that they took inspiration from MS and copied their business model, paid online is extremely unhealthy for consoles.

I think we kinda agree with the difference that you could live with the low online quality capacity Sony had with ps3.

 

[nominedomine]

Not sure, I imagine the biggest companies will just try to brute force it. Tbh I'm sure you're right in that if you're really close to a data centre latency will be minimal, but in reality that's not practical for the whole populations.

In terms of compression, I've heard that it's like a lower resolution that is upscaled and can be pretty good, but that's on GeForce Now which is the best out there.

GeForce Now is the best one I tried but the server is to far away for me, xCloud worked ok but with bad image quality (very compressed image) and inconsistent. I couldn't see myself using it for any game I cared about.

I think we kinda agree with the difference that you could live with the low online quality capacity Sony had with ps3.

Yea, I could live with it, all I care is for the games to work. Anything else I could do without. I don't feel like it drastically got better after PS+, for me nothing changed.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Gabe did predict the future and bet on PC and digital distribution. MS bet on consoles and on them being able to beat Sony at their game. At least that's how I see it.

Yes MS bet on consoles, but that has no direct causality with the success of steam. Correlation does not equal causality.

 

[Hezekiah]

GeForce Now is the best one I tried but the server is to far away for me, xCloud worked ok but with bad image quality (very compressed image) and inconsistent. I couldn't see myself using it for any game I cared about.


Yea, I could live with it, all I care is for the games to work. Anything else I could do without. I don't feel like it drastically got better after PS+, for me nothing changed.

The 3080 one or the regular?

The other problem is that it's just too damn expensive. I would want the 3080 tier, and it's £180 for the year. Works with your existing Steam library which is great, but at the end of your subscription you obviously down own anything.

 

[SuperSaiyanWithDreads]

This deal is going through

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

Here's the vid from Hoeg dismantling this article

 

[nominedomine]

The 3080 one or the regular?

The other problem is that it's just too damn expensive. I would want the 3080 tier, and it's £180 for the year. Works with your existing Steam library which is great, but at the end of your subscription you obviously down own anything.

I tried the free one just to see how it worked, I have no intention of actually using it right now.

I like the business model of Geforce Now it replaces the hardware but you still get to buy your games normally (too bad many publisher try to sabotage it). To me it's a much better business model than PSNow/xCloud where you don't buy your games.

If it was up to me the would be no cloud tier on PS+, it would be something completely apart like NVidia is doing. The way it is set up now people that don't want anything to do with cloud gaming are still paying for it because it's all bundled together.

 

[JLB]

PSO worked well with a Broadband Adapter! Which Sega was the first one to introduce that to console too!

Sega's ideas seem to get credited to Sony and MS. MS knew Sega's plan and many think the Xbox was the successor to the Dreamcast. Sony, just got the credit because Sega wasn't around anymore. The online, the PC additions, even the memory card was on the Saturn first. Who, copied who??? (PS JLB that wasn't directed at you.)

I know, but the key is that the original user said proper.
I think its hard to argue that the first that nailed online gaming on the console space was xbox.

 

[JLB]

Are you kidding me? You really think Xbox introduced online on consoles? Sega alone did it multiple times before. Explain to me how Phantasy Star Online launched before the Xbox was on the market please.

The Xbox just happen to come out when broadband was more popular, hardly a big innovation. Do you give a lot of credit for the PS3 for including Wifi and HDMI as well?

To have that as the great contribution MS had to console gaming in their 20 years is just sad and says it all.

If only you would read my next messages. Or to say it better: if only you would read before writing. Original user said proper.

 

[ReBurn]

probably tbh

i feel like I'm overdue

 

[Infamy v1]

If you think Psygnosis in 1993 when Sony was entering the market and Activision Blizzard in 2022 after MS had just acquired Bethesda are similar in any way, ok, take the "win".

You're right. Psy had between 30-40% of the EU gaming marketshare at the time, nowhere near ABK in any region. Not similar in any way, therefore buying Psygnosis was closer to a monopoly by the actual definition of the term than anything. But it doesn't matter because ot was in 1993, right?

 

[ManaByte]

Are you kidding me? You really think Xbox introduced online on consoles? Sega alone did it multiple times before. Explain to me how Phantasy Star Online launched before the Xbox was on the market please.

The Xbox just happen to come out when broadband was more popular, hardly a big innovation. Do you give a lot of credit for the PS3 for including Wifi and HDMI as well?

To have that as the great contribution MS had to console gaming in their 20 years is just sad and says it all.

Tell us you didn’t actually use Dreamcast online without telling us you didn’t actually use Dreamcast online.

 

[Wulfer]

I know, but the key is that the original user said proper.
I think its hard to argue that the first that nailed online gaming on the console space was xbox.

Oh yea, putting broad band in every box definitely moved the needle for online play. No doubt MS should get this credit because the Xbox team went with a BIG gamble with broad band in the box. I think it was said in the Xbox history videos that the market had a 80% use for 56K and 20% use for broad band at the time these decisions were made. Also, another thing Xbox did was to make system-link successful for consoles. Halo and system link at one time was always in the same sentence during the Xbox OG days. "Hey brought you Xbox, Halo and controller over and we'll system link tonight".

 

[Daneel Elijah]

You're right. Psy had between 30-40% of the EU gaming marketshare at the time, nowhere near ABK in any region. Not similar in any way, therefore buying Psygnosis was closer to a monopoly by the actual definition of the term than anything. But it doesn't matter because ot was in 1993, right?

Sorry for being stupid but if Psy had between 30-40% of the EU gaming marketshare at the time, what happened to Nintendo/ Sega that year ?

 

[freefornow]

Pffft, Psygnosis in 1993. I'm still dark about CBS Records in 1988 and Columbia Pictures in 1989.. I cut off my ears and masturbated until I went blind just to spite them!
Where was Wall Street then!

 

[Craig of War]

Fuck this im so confident in this deal not to fail that if it somehow fail to go through
ill nuke my own account

 

[Darlingcognito]

Funny as hell he put out the tweet just after MS announced the June show to be a downer.
Then made to look like an idiot 30 mins later when the vote results came through.
He is DESPERATE for bad news for Xbox.
Notice he hasn't said a thing about the code redemption fails that have plagued Sony over the last few days?

 

[MonarchJT]

Funny as hell he put out the tweet just after MS announced the June show to be a downer.
Then made to look like an idiot 30 mins later when the vote results came through.
He is DESPERATE for bad news for Xbox.
Notice he hasn't said a thing about the code redemption fails that have plagued Sony over the last few days?

Anyone with a healthy brain knows who he is and that is strongly anti Ms (Xbox). Everything he says about Ms is not even worth to be taken into consideration

 

[Torrent of Pork]

Here's the vid from Hoeg dismantling this article

I'm not surprised the little weasel (Schreier) doesn't know jack shit about business, but I am surprised his editor allowed the article in the first place. Bloomberg is supposedly a business rag, you would think there would be somebody in the building to keep the organization from looking like they employ a bunch of economic illiterates.

We're getting into the territory of 'stupid or liar'.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I'm not surprised the little weasel (Schreier) doesn't know jack shit about business, but I am surprised his editor allowed the article in the first place. Bloomberg is supposedly a business rag, you would think there would be somebody in the building to keep the organization from looking like they employ a bunch of economic illiterates.

We're getting into the territory of 'stupid or liar'.

Bloomberg's standards have become something like "does it bring clicks? Publish it". Journalism has been a joke for at least the past 5 years.

 

[DukeNukem00]

I'm not surprised the little weasel (Schreier) doesn't know jack shit about business, but I am surprised his editor allowed the article in the first place. Bloomberg is supposedly a business rag, you would think there would be somebody in the building to keep the organization from looking like they employ a bunch of economic illiterates.

We're getting into the territory of 'stupid or liar'.

I mean, schreier's first article on Blommberg was something among the lines of some studio giving better offers so employees from various companies were taking them. Something among those lines. He phrased the article as something big, something juicy. Company X poaching tallent from others. Man, people saw a better offer, more money and changed jobs. Thats the end of it. He was trying to make it something else.

Other time, Borderlands 3 launched, it didnt sell as well as they expected so the bonus for everyone was lower than predicted. He made it sound as if someone is witholding with malice pay that was owned to anyone. It was simple - you thought you would sell X amount of copies and you sold less. So the bonus will be smaller. The most natural thing. He again was trying to make a thing out of this.

When he doesnt get the info he wants, he's twisting shit all over the place trying to create a "situation". Trying to make a thing even if theres none

 

[lostinblue]

I am so pissed at Adobe... so I am going to rant about it, they did not implement any defense on user accounts so when Adobe got hacked my email, phone number etc was leaked to the dark side of the internet. They force you to use adobe cloud that makes your PC goes very slow, oh you want to cancel the sub while active, good luck, they do not even do return policies.

I worked on a ultra secure location that manufactured security documents like passports. New 27" macs were slow because they were always offline for security reasons and Adobe doesn't like that every once in a while adobe apps would stop working and you had to request they be given internet.

Which was a huge security risk every time. All because Adobe CC needed to authenticate.

Unrelated to antitrust but yeah, not a very prosumer corporation.

 

[John Wick]

You're right. Psy had between 30-40% of the EU gaming marketshare at the time, nowhere near ABK in any region. Not similar in any way, therefore buying Psygnosis was closer to a monopoly by the actual definition of the term than anything. But it doesn't matter because ot was in 1993, right?

Did they? So provide the figures that show Psygnosis had between 30-40% of the EU gaming market before Sony purchased them?

 

[MonarchJT]

Did they? So provide the figures that show Psygnosis had between 30-40% of the EU gaming market before Sony purchased them?

psygnosis had 20% of uk gaming market

 

[Clear]

psygnosis had 20% of uk gaming market

Psygnosis weren't in great shape actually at the time of the Sony buyout. Their attempted expansion out onto SNES and Megadrive did not go well and with the Amiga market in severe decline by 1993 they were looking at an uncertain future. Especially as most of their biggest hits were externally developed and those were in the process of becoming actual independent developers and looking elsewhere for partnerships.

Most people don't realize how loose the UK business was at the time, and many of Psygnosis biggest successes were basically the result of one-off meetings and handshake deals between individual creatives and Ian H.

 

[JLB]

Oh yea, putting broad band in every box definitely moved the needle for online play. No doubt MS should get this credit because the Xbox team went with a BIG gamble with broad band in the box. I think it was said in the Xbox history videos that the market had a 80% use for 56K and 20% use for broad band at the time these decisions were made. Also, another thing Xbox did was to make system-link successful for consoles. Halo and system link at one time was always in the same sentence during the Xbox OG days. "Hey brought you Xbox, Halo and controller over and we'll system link tonight".

Yeah, I heard that 80/20 figure here, somewhere:
Regarding system link, I recall that worked with PS1 very well though might be getting confused.

 

[The_Mike]

Fuck this im so confident in this deal not to fail that if it somehow fail to go through
ill nuke my own account

 

[Majukun]

Besides, this is about the future, after this generation, Xbox and Playstation are just gonna be an app on your TV where you can stream games, at that point, whoever got the best exclusives will win.

and here i thought that after the debacle of xbox one, the "it's the future no matter if you like it or not" bullshit was finally put to rest...