OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
The results would have been the same with a Sony or Panasonic. Superior response time is inherent to OLED techonolgy. LG makes lcds too you know.
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We've All Been Duped by LED LCD's Input Lag vs OLED for Gaming - Here's the Truth
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Absolute nonsense. I bought an LG OLED in 2015, no burn in whatsoever.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
While I get your complaint.. if you do these kind of analysis, not like anyone but the winner is going to want to place an ad in your video lol
In the end, all hobbyist "Reviewing" is done by people paid by the companies they are reviewing. Find me a gaming we site without ads for.. games.. find me a car magazine w/o.. ads for cars. They all get sent free swag constantly too.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
If Robotroll had actually watched that video, he'd known that Linus got burn in on the OLED tv he used as a monitor for his Windows PC. He said the OLED TV he used for its intended purpose (tv/gaming) had no burn in.
GymWolf
Member
Exactly like people who talk about burn in being inevitable.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Does your 2015 LG OLED support HDR???
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
It even being a better picture is subjective.
For example...
Watching a Dolby Vision movie on my 75 inch Z9D blows away(yes blows away)
Anything I ever see on OLED.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Sorry, I made a mistake. I've got a 2016 model (55C6V) with 4K HDR. It was also one of the last models to feature 3D (and it's the absolute best 3D display I've seen).
RoboFu
One of the green rats
It is as I explained. Each pixel has its own life span. Everytime you display an image on screen unless it’s a solid color that covers the whole screen it will degrade those pixels at different levels. As they degrade they are not as bright as they were
or they don’t function as well As they did before which causes burn in / uniformity issues.
this is not speculative .. it’s a fact.
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JackSparr0w
Banned
There are two inevitable things in life. Taxes and OLED burn in.
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OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
After 10 years for sure. I think modern oleds are rated for 100 thousand hours? Could be wrong on that. Do you think your lcd will last that long? I honestly don't think any display will last that long regardless of tech used.
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GymWolf
Member
Unless you keep you tv on as a monitor 24/7 you can use it as a monitor.
I'm literally writing this post using my oled as a monitor.
The ONLY thing i had to do as a precaution was to hide the bar on the bottom when i'm not using it, i can't even call that a compromise or sacrifice.
Then i pretty much do the fuck i want with the tv, i watch 90 min anime movies with sport\vivid mode because i like popping colors in my weeb content, i browse with chrome for hours when i have nothing to do, i watch\play hdr content, i play long 3-5 session of games with fixed icons, like i was at home in the past 2 weeks because i had a small surgery and i played like 100 hours of mhw on pc, ask me if i have even the smallest sign of burn in, i dare you.
If i have to point out something is that since i like color accuracy i watch\play most of my stuff in professional mode (filmmaker on lg tv, mine is a panasonic), and for some people, color accuracy mode is a bit mute, but it's not a sacrifice for me, and i still use game mode for something cartoony like zelda botw (played 5-6 hours of it in the last 2 days without a problem).
But watching anything that is not anime\sport in vivid mode is fucking puke inducing, so it's really not a big sacrifice, i think majority of people use movie\game mode as the most common modes anyway.
p.s. oh and i had this type of usage since my first oled tv, an old lg 910V full-hd, so it's not even a matter of having a modern oled.
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MightySquirrel
Banned
Whoa didn't expect OLED to show such poor performance figures.
A decent monitor is twice as fast.
edit: in OP's video OLED results were 44 ms of input lag, while an LED monitor running at only 60 Hz shows only 25 ms :
A decent monitor is twice as fast.
edit: in OP's video OLED results were 44 ms of input lag, while an LED monitor running at only 60 Hz shows only 25 ms :
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GymWolf
Member
It is fucking not unless you use them for like 12 hours a day for 10 years or some shit, i had 2 oled tv for 3 years each and used both as pc monitor and i had zero problem, the people who bought them from me are still enjoying the tv to this day.
Do you really think that heavy gamers like myself would buy 3 fucking times the same tech if burn in was inevitable?
Dude open world and action rpg are my favourite genres, basically fixed logos galore...
Between me and my father we had like 5 oled tv in a span of 6 years, no one had problem of burn in.
One was fucked up by a thunder during a thunderstorm tho.
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Dream-Knife
Banned
Since the market is willing to pay for quality again, why not bring back plasma? Or super high resolution CRTs?
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
That's your fault for watching cnn lolThere are two inevitable things in life. Taxes and OLED burn in.
Kuranghi
Member
I do agree its a threshold thing sometimes, but for me, most of the games that have lag bad enough to actually bother me (Kena as a recent example) don't get saved by reducing display lag by 10ms.
Like if you play Forza Horizon 5 at 30fps it still feels amazing even when you force triple buffered v-sync, so adding in another 33ms isn't making a huge difference.
I shouldn't have said its meaningless, being over the top, but I rank it very low on the list, next to wirelss controller lag I'd say since my DS4 was 12ms and the Dualsense is 1-2ms.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Costs and the inability to manufacture them. Also, they are high-energy hogs so they can't be 'green'. I asked Chad B (a professional calibrator) this very question when he calibrated my old plasma two years back.
Kuranghi
Member
If you want to the worst example of bloom on LCD and why OLED wins in that type of scene then load up Rambo: First Blood Part 2 in HDR and skip to the scene where he's sneaking under the house with his knife. Thats the worst blooming I've ever seen on my ZD9, because its like a 1000 nit specular highlight next to really really near black shadow detail.
I've never tried it on the OLED actually, gotta see how it looks
I'd be intersted if someone with an OLED take a photo of it if its easy to do, I'm busy the rest of tonight and tomorrow so don't have time really.
I've never tried it on the OLED actually, gotta see how it looks
I'd be intersted if someone with an OLED take a photo of it if its easy to do, I'm busy the rest of tonight and tomorrow so don't have time really.
zeomax
Member
It is funny to read the people who screams "BURN IN, BURN IN" are always the ones who never had an OLED.
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StateofMajora
Banned
It’s funny because as he was saying look at the aim down sights moment, I noticed the action was happening at the exact same time.
At the moment I think this video is just misleading and click baity. In terms if input lag.
And it’s funny because recently i’ve grown to appreciate lcd’s slower response time in 30 and 60fps games ; the lower response time leads to far less judder than on oled, for a smoother image in motion. Couple that with sony’s bfi on lcd and you really can’t match it with any oled.
120fps is where the tables turn as very few if any lcd have fast enough response time for a smear free 120fps, and the judder on oled is minimal, and add bfi to oled is when lcd just can’t match it.
I’ve used plenty of oleds, and plenty of lcds, and 18ms has felt like 18ms ; i.e. 950g lcd has felt no less responsive than the sony a8h oled, both with 18ms input lag tested via leo bodnar tool by myself.
For various reasons, including oleds current uniformity woes, and the high judder at 30 and less so 60 fps, i’ve come to think lcd is actually currently superior to oled ; when it’s a quality lcd set anyway like a Sony with a high number of dimming zones. Problem is Sony is not trying atm but hopefully 2022 is better.
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
Never touching an LCD TV again as OLED is just vastly superior.
bender
What time is it?
A downgrade sure but after my E7 burnt in after less than two years of usage, I'll take the peace of mind and reduced cost.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Maybe micro led will be something better than both? Or have the advantages of both anyway. It'll probably be years before we see it commercially available still. Let's enjoy our TVs in the meantime anyway. This is some privileged shit to be arguing about. Peace.
Kuranghi
Member
Fuck I bet that was expensive as well, even 55" would've been around 2.5K back in 2017 right? Thats the one with the floating glass design yeah? It looked so fucking cool, shame they got rid of the E and W.
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GHG
Gold Member
If you want to the worst example of bloom on LCD and why OLED wins in that type of scene then load up Rambo: First Blood Part 2 in HDR and skip to the scene where he's sneaking under the house with his knife. Thats the worst blooming I've ever seen on my ZD9, because its like a 1000 nit specular highlight next to really really near black shadow detail.
I've never tried it on the OLED actually, gotta see how it looks
I'd be intersted if someone with an OLED take a photo of it if its easy to do, I'm busy the rest of tonight and tomorrow so don't have time really.
If you give me a timestamp I can try and get a capture for you later.
Kuranghi
Member
I spoke to a guy at Sony HQ who was there in person for the unveiling of a CLEDIS 16K screen and he said it was unbelievable so I can't wait for consumer 8K microLED. It was in a museum I think but its basically this:
Imagine how fucking cool it would be to have a million pound display haha
bender
What time is it?
I got a good deal but it was pricey. Floating glass was beautiful. I had to have the panel replaced right away because of the dreaded square due to a known factory calibration issue. Rocket League gave me burn in. It was a lovely set but way too much of a hassle after 10 years of Kuro use.
Going from Kuro -> E7 -> Bravia LCD was a pretty big shock/adjustment though you kind of get used to the local dimming zones. .
Kuranghi
Member
Holy shit that factory calibration square thing was so weird. I'm sure it happened on a set in my mates shop.
What Bravia do you have now?
Excess
Member
To be fair, Linus is an idiot for using it in the way he did. I have a B7 that I use for the PC and it's still going strong with no burn-in.
I wouldn't ever recommend one as a PC monitor, but if you're willing to auto-hide the taskbar, use a 1-minute timed screen saver, and constantly move windows around so that nothing is ever static, then you should be fine.
bender
What time is it?
950G. It's fine, I guess. I just can't enable the WiFi and while I play my consoles online/download anything as it interferes with them too much.
Kuranghi
Member
Yeah Linus is a bit of TV-spaz imo, I don't have much respect left, he's good with computer stuff though ofc.
Kuranghi
Member
Sweet, what size? The larger ones have X-Wide Angle which isn't so good imo, but its only the 75" and 85".
It has 60 dimming zones in both 55" and 65" and I love it because its the first great set with X1U (ZF9 has ~112 zones in 65" but the low contrast panel sucks for black level) ~1200 nits peak brightness. Which is nearly 25% brighter than the XF/G 90.
I think its the best post-2017 4K Sony LCD you could have actually. X900H is rubbish and X90J is great but lacks zones, 24 is not enough imo, I used to slag off the entry level backlit LG nanocells for that (I think one set even had like 12 or less zones lol it was so stupid, edge lit looked better overall due to the clouding distraction) and I won't hold off on Sony going too low even with their better dimming algorithm.
ZF9 would be maybe be better with bias lighting and a calibration to take advantage of that, but it was INSANELY overpriced for what it was, they were just trying to pretend it was a true ZD9 successor even though they didn't put the Backlight Master Drive in it. The viewing angle is awesome, though I only saw the 65" model.
StateofMajora
Banned
You honestly thought c1 while using the cinemotion interpolation setting didn't have less artifacts than Sony interpolation?
bender
What time is it?
I went 65" which is probably too big but I picked it up during a sale. It has some of the worst built in speakers I've ever heard. The E7 actually sounded good for a built in set. I consider the Bravia a limp-along set until the next technology comes along though I've often considered going the TCL route and just buying a cheap set every few years (as shitty as that is for the planet) rather than investing $2,500-5,000 on any given high end set.
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Excess
Member
Either that, or he knew he wanted to make a video on it a few months down the road and decided to use it the way he did. Watching Linus over the years, it seems he spares no expense if he can monetize it for content.
StateofMajora
Banned
I agree that 950g is the best small size 55 or 49 Sony currently. Still not a huge upgrade over x900e!
X900f would be my pick, easily, if it didn't have high 1080p source lag and had native 1080p120hz support like 950g.
I thought my x900e could do 120hz on ps5 until I tried last night
so it's in need of an upgrade even more than I thought.
Kuranghi
Member
Yeah the soundstrip on the E7 was pretty good actually given how thin it is.
Agree about the X950G speakers being so ass, I dreaded turning them on in front of a customer, just went straight to "so listen you NEED a soundbar on all modern tellys because the speakers are so shit okay?" style spiel lol the 55" speakers were even worse, like really "bangy" if that makes sense, like the TV was trying to produce bass by firing pinballs from a small cannon off its own insides lol.
I recommend the ZF9 soundbar to go with the X950G but wire the sub because the signal is shit (for me at least and I do have many devices in between it and the soundbar). You might be able to find a deal with the rear speakers online, I find the stereo separation really impressive, like it fills the whole 4.5m width of the room even though its only 1m wide and as long as you have an actual Dolby Atmos or DTS:X signal (ie 5.1.2 or 7.1.2) the Vertical Surround is really great, even if it makes it a tiny bit tinnier. Vertical surround is fake surround sound and height channels if its Atmos/DTS:X but if you have the rears then its only simulating the height, but from actual height data so its 10x better than just using it on a 5.1/7.1 signal.
Kuranghi
Member
Yes but I'm talking really minor, it was challenging stuff because the motion was super fast. I wouldn't mention it to a customer anymore unless they said what is the very best motion, money no object. The SOE I did notice a smadge more than the Sony (A80J) but that could also just be a matter of perfecting the amount of dejudder when I have more time to play around. When I use motion interpolation its usually set super low so maybe the Sony just does less to the images at its minimum than the LG does so its more like the slider isn't giving me enough options rather than the LG being noticeably worse at it.
So now I'd say I think the presentation/sharpness and gradient handling of the Sony is better than the LG but its also that annoying thing of some stuff looks too sharp and wrong on the XR chip TVs like you said before.
I reckon "XR 2" could be amazing and whatever LG cooks up next, the "Zeta Gundam 11 Gen 1" lol. Fingers crossed for VA panel miniLEDs from Sorny, the QNEDS have awful blooming just like the QN85.
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YeulEmeralda
Member
And when OLED no longer suffers from burn in everyone will switch. Until then thanks for beta testing.
Soodanim
Gold Member
I don't have an OLED, I'm a neutral observer. By the time burn in is 100% prevented on lower end models there will be newer tech taking the crown.
Soltype
Member
I feel like they never even tried, they saw an easy way out and took it. It'd be nice to see someone put some R&D behind it.
JackSparr0w
Banned
Yeah he is an idiot for expecting a fundamentally flawed technology like OLED to be able to function like any other display.
Where are the guidelines from LG that state how often I have to move my windows around? How long am I allowed to watch the news? Do you even realize how insane OLED fans sound to normal people when they talk about baby sitting a freakin TV.
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OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Samsung did. They came out with some crts that were about 30 percent thinner than others. They suffered from screen uniformity issues more than others though iirc.
StateofMajora
Banned
I strongly disagree, I have a8h interpolation set to 1 and I easily noticed “sparklies” breakup on fast moving text and animation like cartoons which was just pretty much flat out gone on c1 with the cinemotion setting engaged. Even the wife noticed when I pointed it out lol. It would be cool to look at some of this stuff together but i’ll leave it at that.
As far as SOE, the Sony is still better I agree. but it still has soe so I prefer the lack of artifacts on c1 overall.
At the end of the day, LG still has way way worse gradation handling so I still don’t think I want an lg lol. Just for Sony to get there act together. And I think XR2 can only be an improvement!